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Full loot PVP MMOs, why do indi developers keep making them?
Maurgrim
Member RarePosts: 1,325
We have seen so many games coming out during the years that promise great gameplay and full loot PVP.
Has it ever worked I mean really?
We can take an example, a classic indi sandbox full loot mantra we have all heard.
Be a crafter
Be a villian
Be a hunter of rare animals
Be a trader and make your fortune by trade.
Be a guildleader and stake your claim on a land and prosper to create a kingdom
Yadda Yadda Yadda
We have all heard these classic commercial phrases, but really they all have come down to pure pvp nothing about pve just pvp with a very small gaming community that hails it for the win.
It dosent matter how much pve activity you put into your game the game will die with full loot pvp due to the simple reason the majority don't like full loot pvp and those who enjoys it are the ones who stick around hence the lable MMO full loot pvp arena for a game that suppose to be an adventure with trade, craft, exploration, building ect.
So sad really that indi developers never can understand the basics that full loot ppv never works no matter how much pve content you provide due to pvper gonna hurt your game and scare away the pve player and you end up with a pvp arena mmo that will burn slowly until the pvper finds another game and do it all over again.
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and 5 others.
Comments
Now as to why full loot is acceptable in survival games but not MMORPGs I'm still trying to figure out.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Have a safe areas in the middle and as you go concentrically farther out, the PvP full loot ability becomes more realized. So people can control their risk.
Mortal Online if it did it that way would have more players, i'd stay in the non-full loot pvp areas for the most part but then do excursions into the full loot areas.
Oh well. I don't see a problem with full loot PvP, i see a problem when there is no way to control a players' risk.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only time full loot PvP that does not work is when what you lose is too much for the average player. Nobody is going to like losing months of work although EvE seems to be the exception but do those players who lose expensive ships stick around? So for this to work you need to make sure the loss is acceptable.
First you need to realise EVE isn't progression based - you don't chase levels nor better gear/ships like in traditional MMOs.
Ships and equipment are just tools to achieve your goals rather than goal itself and as such, loss of ships is a daily butter in EVE.
With that said, EVE can be played like any other mmo and provides you with an ability to play for the "shiney". If that is the case, I can definitely see people quitting after they lose months of invested time.
However, that isn't really something all that common thus not really a concern.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That by giving each player a knife and the ability to use it, they will suddenly become interesting individuals that will create a dynamic, self balancing, and interesting war system.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's harder for me to understand why players want to kill each other in an RPG. I certainly get no kicks from that activity, but understand many do.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Many consider survival games MMOs, so they qualify.
If he meant MMORPGs, there are two totally PVE centric games in progress, a few with a mixture of both and a few which are PVP only.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE, Albion, BDO, and LOA are all making profits. Darkfall survives and doesn't thrive because of 1000 other things wrong with the game, same with Mortal. Hell, the most popular genre in gaming (BR) is essentially full-loot. Sure, it's based on a 20 minute session, but in most of the aforementioned games you don't really lose more than 20 minutes of work if you die regardless.
Failure to make PvP meaningful, poor gaming mechanics, features dropped, poor graphics is just a bad recipe.
Few things that can help some of these developers.
1. Stay away from pointless grinds. Not playing a PvP MMORPG to kill 20k MOBs for gold or exp.
2. Stay away from power gaps. Why have decked out level 100 players killing noobs? Great way to foster competition.
3. Have your map big enough to have space to build and not be run by uber guilds.
4. Have resource nodes for mines, farms, lumber and etc run by guild NPCs for income and basic crafting resources. Makes the game RTS like and again not wasting time picking each resource.
5. Lastly don't go beyond means and skills of development team. Ugly realistic graphics, poor frames, poor animations, features not possible advertised and etc just stop.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
To try and answer his question now, I think its because these developers are that sliver group that wants these types of games so badly they try and build one themselves that they hope can actually make it. The ones they have tried shrivel up and die or flounder along on life support.
I just don't believe its possible to make a classic MMO that satisfies the hardcore full loot kill anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason PVPer and the PVE'r that wants to participate in this world to be farmed and killed endlessly which is always what happens. Its a diluted fantasy.
I think the bigger stunning question is, why isn't anybody making a quality PvP game like DAOC where you don't lose your stuff, that act of dying is enough for you not wanting to die. Realm pride etc. RvR, where in the hell are you.. that's what I don't understand.