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New Caspien tantrum about news coverage

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  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that SBS were deliberately dishonest in their KS proposal.

    Jeromy Walsh knew that saying the KS funding total was only meant to build a "demo for investors" would hugely dampen the enthusiasm of potential backers, so that fact was conveniently omitted...

    Sure, there may have been hardcore fans that were already aware of that fact, seeing as they were active on the CoE forums long before the KS arrived, but there would have been many others who would not have known that "hidden detail". New arrivals would have taken the KS info at face value, which is quite acceptable, seeing as that funding proposal should contain all pertinent facts regarding what is being funded.
    Would it have been better if the summary said it was a for a prototype in those exact words? I agree. Still doesn't prove dishonesty. The problem here is once again that you cannot take the KS info at face value. You have to do due diligence.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    They do not differentiate because it is not possible. They only break the KS rule if they are dishonest. So if they left information out due to simply incompetence, which you claim, they did not break a KS rule.

    You right however, it is there for all to see.
    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    Gdemamicraftseeker

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    edited February 15
    Slapshot1188 said:

    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    No, all you have is speculation. Driven by your dislike of Caspian because he was rude to you. Which he shouldn't have been. But ultimately there are 3-0-0+ threads on this game, a significant portion started by yourself, for the sole purpose of internet revenge. It is both impressive and sad.

    Unless YOU are Caspian! *head explodes*
    GdemamiAnOldFart
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that SBS were deliberately dishonest in their KS proposal.

    Jeromy Walsh knew that saying the KS funding total was only meant to build a "demo for investors" would hugely dampen the enthusiasm of potential backers, so that fact was conveniently omitted...

    Sure, there may have been hardcore fans that were already aware of that fact, seeing as they were active on the CoE forums long before the KS arrived, but there would have been many others who would not have known that "hidden detail". New arrivals would have taken the KS info at face value, which is quite acceptable, seeing as that funding proposal should contain all pertinent facts regarding what is being funded.
    Would it have been better if the summary said it was a for a prototype in those exact words? I agree. Still doesn't prove dishonesty. The problem here is once again that you cannot take the KS info at face value. You have to do due diligence.
    The information required to do a true due diligence isn't required to be provided to potential backers. 
    GdemamicraftseekerMendel

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    edited February 15
    Slapshot1188 said:

    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    No, all you have is speculation. Driven by your dislike of Caspian because he was rude to you. Which he shouldn't have been. But ultimately there are 3-0-0+ threads on this game, a significant portion started by yourself, for the sole purpose of internet revenge. It is both impressive and sad.

    Unless YOU are Caspian! *head explodes*
    Incorrect again... I'm going to have to add you to the list with Captain LoL and Groundhog Day guy.

    Gdemamicraftseeker

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Slapshot1188 said:

    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    No, all you have is speculation. Driven by your dislike of Caspian because he was rude to you. Which he shouldn't have been. But ultimately there are 3-0-0+ threads on this game, a significant portion started by yourself, for the sole purpose of internet revenge. It is both impressive and sad.

    Unless YOU are Caspian! *head explodes*
    Incorrect again... I'm going to have to add you to the list with Captain LoL and Groundhog Day guy.

    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    Slapshot1188 said:

    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    No, all you have is speculation. Driven by your dislike of Caspian because he was rude to you. Which he shouldn't have been. But ultimately there are 3-0-0+ threads on this game, a significant portion started by yourself, for the sole purpose of internet revenge. It is both impressive and sad.

    Unless YOU are Caspian! *head explodes*
    Incorrect again... I'm going to have to add you to the list with Captain LoL and Groundhog Day guy.

    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    They have revamped the site multiple times.  It used to be displayed in bullet point format. If you ooom through these forums there probably is a screenshot.  But you can see from the Massively article that it existed and that Caspien did not dispute it.

    You can also find it listed here but no longer in bullet point format.
    https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005028514-What-are-the-basics-
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,884
    Slapshot1188 said:

    How do you draw that conclusion from this rule:
    The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project

    It says nothing about only breaking it if you are dishonest.   So please show me where it gives an exception for incompetence.  Or says you have to break the rules intentionally. 
     
    Then why did you highlight "honest and clearly" if it is not relevant? Convenient at the time to imply dishonesty, but not so much now?

    Because clearly when the topic came up Caspian was very open that they did need more cash beyond the kickstarter. My impression was always that the funding goal was for a prototype with which to get further funding.

    Your claim is that they set out to deliberately mislead people. That claim is false.
    Again that is incorrect

    No, all you have is speculation. Driven by your dislike of Caspian because he was rude to you. Which he shouldn't have been. But ultimately there are 3-0-0+ threads on this game, a significant portion started by yourself, for the sole purpose of internet revenge. It is both impressive and sad.

    Unless YOU are Caspian! *head explodes*
    Incorrect again... I'm going to have to add you to the list with Captain LoL and Groundhog Day guy.

    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    Specifically it states "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project."

    Oh, and just in case, 

    com·plete
    adjective
    1. having all the necessary or appropriate parts. 
    2. having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full:

    verb
    1. finish making or doing. 
    2. make (something) whole or perfect.

    ;)
    Gdemamitweedledumb99craftseeker

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    ...it exists in his head only.

    tweedledumb99Slapshot1188craftseeker
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,884
    edited February 15
    Gdemami said:
    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    ...it exists in his head only.

    Well, and on the Kickstarter web site, (see above) but whatever.

    Try not to make it so easy.

    ;)
    tweedledumb99Slapshot1188craftseekerAnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    edited February 15
    Kyleran said:
    Well, and on the Kickstarter web site, (see above) but whatever.

    Try not to make it so easy.

    ;)
    It does not say what you think it says...

    One would need to be seriously mentally deficient to think it means anything else but money needed to complete the subject of KS campaign, hence why the sentence starts with FUNDING GOAL - an amount you intent to collect via KS campaign.
    tweedledumb99craftseekerAnOldFartShaighKyleran
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Gdemami said:
    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    ...it exists in his head only.

    Why?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    Why?
    No clue what is happening in his messed up head...I do not even want to know...
    tweedledumb99craftseeker
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Gdemami said:
    Why?
    No clue what is happening in his messed up head...I do not even want to know...
    Why?
    craftseeker
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    Well, and on the Kickstarter web site, (see above) but whatever.

    Try not to make it so easy.

    ;)
    It does not say what you think it says...

    One would need to be seriously mentally deficient to think it means anything else but money needed to complete the subject of KS campaign, hence why the sentence starts with FUNDING GOAL - an amount you intent to collect via KS campaign.
    It literally says:

     "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project."

    Not the Kickstarter campaign. The project.  Please go back to silently LOLing everyone.  The more you post the worse it gets.

    GdemamicraftseekerMendelAnOldFartKyleranNilden

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    edited February 15
    Not the Kickstarter campaign. The project.  
    ...project is what you start on KS and what backers pledge towards and KS rules always refer to "project" as such.


    "How do I start a project?

    Anyone that meets our creator requirements is eligible to launch a project on Kickstarter. 

    Just head to our start page to begin building your project. You can find tips on structuring and running your project in our Resources Compendium, and refer to our rules to make sure your project idea is a good fit. Meanwhile, feel free to save your project as a draft and return to finish it up or submit it for review at a later date."

    ....

    "Everything on Kickstarter must be a project with a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

    Kickstarter is not a store, backers pledge to projects to help them come to life and support a creative process. To thank their backers for their support, project creators offer unique rewards that speak to the spirit of what they're hoping to create."
    Iselintweedledumb99Slapshot1188AnOldFartTorrskKyleran
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Gdemami said:
    Not the Kickstarter campaign. The project.  
    ...project is what you start on KS and what backers pledge towards.

    "Everything on Kickstarter must be a project with a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

    Kickstarter is not a store, backers pledge to projects to help them come to life and support a creative process. To thank their backers for their support, project creators offer unique rewards that speak to the spirit of what they're hoping to create."
    why?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    Gdemami said:
    Not the Kickstarter campaign. The project.  
    ...project is what you start on KS and what backers pledge towards and KS rules always refer to "project" as such.


    "How do I start a project?

    Anyone that meets our creator requirements is eligible to launch a project on Kickstarter. 

    Just head to our start page to begin building your project. You can find tips on structuring and running your project in our Resources Compendium, and refer to our rules to make sure your project idea is a good fit. Meanwhile, feel free to save your project as a draft and return to finish it up or submit it for review at a later date."

    ....

    "Everything on Kickstarter must be a project with a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

    Kickstarter is not a store, backers pledge to projects to help them come to life and support a creative process. To thank their backers for their support, project creators offer unique rewards that speak to the spirit of what they're hoping to create."
    You honestly think that?  I honestly hope it’s a weak troll because if you really think that....  damn...
    GdemamicraftseekerAnOldFart

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 472
    Gdemami said:
    Not the Kickstarter campaign. The project.  
    ...project is what you start on KS and what backers pledge towards and KS rules always refer to "project" as such.


    "How do I start a project?

    Anyone that meets our creator requirements is eligible to launch a project on Kickstarter. 

    Just head to our start page to begin building your project. You can find tips on structuring and running your project in our Resources Compendium, and refer to our rules to make sure your project idea is a good fit. Meanwhile, feel free to save your project as a draft and return to finish it up or submit it for review at a later date."

    ....

    "Everything on Kickstarter must be a project with a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

    Kickstarter is not a store, backers pledge to projects to help them come to life and support a creative process. To thank their backers for their support, project creators offer unique rewards that speak to the spirit of what they're hoping to create."
    Oh my god.... 

    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    (I am literally typing slowly to get this point across) 

    Quote
    " Everything on Kickstarter must be a project with a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. "

    It states right there that the project is to complete something, therefore to complete your project you need a finished item of some sort. 

    Now if Caspian had said they needed the cash to create a demo for investors he would have been accurate, instead he said its what he needed to finish the project stated (the game). 
    Therefore he made a big boo boo
    craftseekerMendelGdemamitweedledumb99Kyleran
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    edited February 16
    AnOldFart said:
    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    ...probably still too fast for you.


    You are arguing a point no one was disputing - it does not matter what Walsh said or didn't.

    The claim was that there is a KS rule stating that SBS must declare "whole amount" - an amount needed to create entire game, and SBS broke that rule.

    That clam is obviously false because no such rule exists.
    tweedledumb99Slapshot1188Kyleran
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Gdemami said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    ...probably still too fast for you.


    You are arguing a point no one was disputing - it does not what Welsh said or didn't.

    The claim was that there is a KS rule stating that SBS must declare "whole amount" - an amount needed to create entire game, and SBS broke that rule.

    That clam is obviously false because no such rule exists.
    Walsh.
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 245
    Gdemami said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    ...probably still too fast for you.


    You are arguing a point no one was disputing - it does not what Welsh said or didn't.

    The claim was that there is a KS rule stating that SBS must declare "whole amount" - an amount needed to create entire game, and SBS broke that rule.

    That clam is obviously false because no such rule exists.
    Also, maybe we can agree that the rule is vague and allows for both interpretations.

    JUST KIDDING LET'S KEEP ARGUING.
    AnOldFart
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 574
    edited February 16
    Gdemami said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    ...probably still too fast for you.


    You are arguing a point no one was disputing - it does not what Welsh said or didn't.

    The claim was that there is a KS rule stating that SBS must declare "whole amount" - an amount needed to create entire game, and SBS broke that rule.

    That clam is obviously false because no such rule exists.
    Also, maybe we can agree that the rule is vague and allows for both interpretations.

    JUST KIDDING LET'S KEEP ARGUING.



    Ok, I disagree with you.
    Scottweedledumb99

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,043
    Gdemami said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK so let me do this slowly... 
    ...probably still too fast for you.


    You are arguing a point no one was disputing - it does not what Welsh said or didn't.

    The claim was that there is a KS rule stating that SBS must declare "whole amount" - an amount needed to create entire game, and SBS broke that rule.

    That clam is obviously false because no such rule exists.
    Walsh.
    I have suspected...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,732
    Kyleran said:
    Gdemami said:
    Wheres the rule that says all projects must set a funding goal that covers their whole project? 

    I can't find that in their rules section.
    ...it exists in his head only.

    Well, and on the Kickstarter web site, (see above) but whatever.

    Try not to make it so easy.

    ;)
    You can set additional goals and ask for additional funding, but I thought everyone realised that if you ask people to fund you in a KS project they are paying for what's on the tin's label?

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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