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After 800 Blizzard Employees Lose Their Jobs, Game Workers Unite Calls for Kotick Firing - MMORPG.c

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Unions are the worst.
    My company is non union and if my employees ever voted to unionize I would shut the place down, sell everything off and retire.

    That being said, Unions are necessary, some companies deserve a union.

    Balance is good, when the pendulum swings too far one way or the other it's not good. 
    GdemamiMadFrenchieHatefullalkarionlogKootur

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Gdemami said:
    jonrd463 said:
    Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness.
    ....to outgrown usefullness, they would need to be a point they were ever usefull in the first place.
    When they are gone their usefulness will quickly return
    GdemamiMendel

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    @Gdemami

    Care to explain what you find lol worthy?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    laserit said:
    @Gdemami

    Care to explain what you find lol worthy?
    You've just butthurt him in the past, is all.
    laseritHatefullalkarionlogKooturTacticalZombeh

    image
  • AlmostLancelotAlmostLancelot Member UncommonPosts: 135
    edited February 15
    Gdemami said:
    That is why we can't have nice things...

    The self-entitlement of these disgruntled ex-employees is shocking...well, not so much, seems like a good riddance...
    For starters, the people complaining aren't the ex-employees. Did you even read the article?

    Secondly, losing your job due to no fault of your own has nothing to do with being entitled or not.

    Third, you're very ignorant. As evidenced by your complete and utter lack of empathy, while blaming the people who were ousted from their positions, which was completely out of their control. Shame on them for needing to make a living to support their families, etc... The nerve of some people!

    I have plenty of "nice things", maybe the issue is a personal one? Did you ever consider that. You seem to be an extremely jaded and negative individual, I bet you're a real blast at parties, assuming you ever leave your basement.


    Gdemamialkarionlog
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,447
    Gdemami said:
    jonrd463 said:
    Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness.
    ....to outgrown usefullness, they would need to be a point they were ever usefull in the first place.
    Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.
    HatefullMendel
  • AlmostLancelotAlmostLancelot Member UncommonPosts: 135
    laserit said:
    @Gdemami

    Care to explain what you find lol worthy?
    He "lols" posts because he thinks it will get a rise out of people, if there is anyone on this site worth paying no mind to - it's Gdemami.

    He loled me immediately, his response time is solid. Gotta give him kudos for being consistent at least.
    MadFrenchie
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 622
    laserit said:
    Unions are the worst.
    My company is non union and if my employees ever voted to unionize I would shut the place down, sell everything off and retire.

    That being said, Unions are necessary, some companies deserve a union.

    Balance is good, when the pendulum swings too far one way or the other it's not good. 
    id just move the company to a right to work state and continue with business as usual
    Kootur
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 622
    SBFord said:
    They have some very valid points. Sadly, with "record profits", it's unlikely the board will fire Kotick since they are beneficiaries too. The way the firings were announced juxtaposed against Kotick crowing about "record profits" was disgusting.
    I thought it was record revenue. revenue and profits are 2 very different things.
    Kootur
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    gervaise1 said:
    Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.
    ...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?
    Kooturtweedledumb99
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    edited February 15
    laserit said:
    Care to explain what you find lol worthy?
    When it is a case of your own business, I assume, you admited unions unhealthy impact and shut the place down but somehow the impact is less unhealthy when the business is not yours?

    Seriously...
    alkarionlogKootur
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 248
    I don't really have an opinion on this and I don't think most people here should either.

    What I mean is this: 

    Making a huge profit doesn't say anything about whether or not a company has too many employees.  To put it another way, just because a company is profitable doesn't mean they lose the right to lay off extraneous employees.

    Now it is possible that this is just greed.
    The point is, I don't think many here have enough inside knowledge to know for sure.
    Cryomatrix
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Pemmin said:
    laserit said:
    Unions are the worst.
    My company is non union and if my employees ever voted to unionize I would shut the place down, sell everything off and retire.

    That being said, Unions are necessary, some companies deserve a union.

    Balance is good, when the pendulum swings too far one way or the other it's not good. 
    id just move the company to a right to work state and continue with business as usual
    I wouldn't want to leave where I live. The only place I've been where I've actually contemplated it was in Queensland Australia ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,447
    DMKano said:
    perrin82 said:
    I'll play. Is it possible that these employees, while they may be great, became redundant?


    Some were but if you read what insiders are saying - that's not what happened at all.

    Read this

    https://kotaku.com/the-fallout-of-activision-blizzard-s-massive-layoffs-1832597892

    "Over the past week I’ve talked to around 20 people who were laid off or close to those being laid off, as well as others with knowledge as to what’s happening at Activision Blizzard. If there’s a consensus, it’s rage. Rage at Kotick’s comments, at the way Activision executives seemingly view their employees as numbers on a spreadsheet, at the callousness in which this layoff was handled. There’s rage at who was chosen to be laid off—two people told me that it felt like a random, haphazard practice—and rage that some important employees were let go. Some who had been laid off told me they had felt safe, expecting their studios or departments to not be affected. Even those who felt layoffs were necessary or justifiable said they were shocked by the scale, scope, and coldness from executives."


    The reality is there were people laid off that nobody expected - non-redundant, important positions were also affected. Like some key IT (top performers) people were let go that were with the company for more than 15 years - and yes some non-redundant folks too.

    This is why many at Blizzard are pissed off because there was no rhyme or reason for some of the people who got let go - and some also feel that people that SHOULD have been gone were spared, because they were chummy with certain managers. Typical office politics favoritism and bullshit that is the plague of many corporations

    It's a charlie foxtrot  - this was not handled well and many loyal employees have lost faith in Blizzard as a result.

    If anything it's a good wake up call for Blizzard employees to get the F out - top talent is not going to stick around for much longer now that the cat is out of the bag.
    But but ...... Blizzard gave the impression it was just "CS" type folks. 

    After all they said 20% extra devs .... but only on a limited set of games.

    They said they were "only" letting 800 people go - without mentioning those that have gone throughout 2018 - e.g. a CoD distribution center last January with a loss of 50 jobs; that this is just US jobs - those outside the US are reviewed (most of King is outside the US); Bungee has been let go; I would be amazed if they have not had not had a moratorium on outside hires (taking on only those strictly necessary) to allow people under threat to apply for new posts etc.

    They said mobile is the focus and gave the impression it is the promised new land - without highlighting that King hasn't been doing that well (200M+ drop in MAUs in 3 years and the decline seems to have gotten worse - which gives credence to EA's comments that mobile is tough).

    Are you suggesting that some people have bought into what AB appear to have said without looking at the nuanced way they have said it. People can't be that dumb surely?

    Whoops silly me. They can be.

    At the end of the day it wouldn't surprise me if AB ends up shedding being c. 25% smaller. And more unsurprising "shocks" may be to come.


    alkarionlog
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,233
    Gdemami said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.
    ...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?
    Yeah, you are obviously ignorant to why we (the U.S. and many other countries) have unions. They were very necessary in the beginning as working conditions, child labor, unfair wages, benefits, etc were all in favor, extreme favor of the employer the employees were in many cases low paid slaves.

    The Matchgirl case study is a perfect example of why unions are needed. You obviously failed to read or failed to understand what was written.

    Over the years some Unions have gone away and with good reason, many more should go away but that is not to say that there are not places where a union would benefit the employee and as a secondary bonus benefit the consumer. I believe the gaming industry is one of those places. Comparably speaking, the gaming industry is still in a fledgling state and I feel that organized bargaining on the side of the employees would help to stabilize the industry.

    The other side of the sword (so to speak) is a gaming developers union would, imo, outlive its usefulness and become more of a problem in the long run. There are many good cases where unions have hindered progress but at some point, all unions had good intentions and were very useful. 
    AlmostLancelotGdemamialkarionloggervaise1

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,233
    BossChono said:
    jonrd463 said:
    Asheram said:
    Ungood said:
    And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.
    It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way. 
    I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions.  Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.
    And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.
    Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added. 

    All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better. 

    Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.


    Depends on the industry really.  In my work all the different trades work together.  Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine.  Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting.  Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel.  Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float.  Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long.  Of course my company is pretty good.  If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them.  If you are lazy they will drop you.  Union doesn't matter

    Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us.  I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way.  We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.

    Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work.  They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours.  Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns.  I was super happy to get out of there.

    I don't know how unions work in other environments.  Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to.  So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates.  They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues.  Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

    Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

    Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.
    Torvalalkarionlog

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Gdemami said:
    laserit said:
    Care to explain what you find lol worthy?
    When it is a case of your own business, I assume, you admited unions unhealthy impact and shut the place down but somehow the impact is less unhealthy when the business is not yours?

    Seriously...
    There are a lot of negative aspects to a Union when you are running a business.

    I respect my employee's, I have conversations with every one of them and I sincerely care about them. One of my employees who's daughter is severely autistic is going through serious marital problems. His mind understandably and obviously wasn't on his work. Whats he going to do? If his wife and him separate their both financially fucked and I can imagine that its very hard on a marriage with a severely disabled child who takes up %120 of your free time. Poor fellow was having a nervous break down, panic attacks. He was very much out of character and told me he needed to see a doctor. He saw a doctor who prescribed him some antidepressants and informed him that he couldn't work around dangerous machinery for a couple weeks as he got used to his medication. I gave him the two weeks off with pay. That two weeks pay was no skin off my ass.

    It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

    That is easy for me as it is just part of my nature. It's also a lot easier to do with a small business than it would be with a big corporation.

    Now you can lol at that if you so wish.
    HatefullCryomatrixMendel

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    laserit said:
    It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.
    erm, so your point is...?
    tweedledumb99
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Gdemami said:
    laserit said:
    It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.
    erm, so your point is...?
    I think everyone's point when responding to you in general is: "yea, that's not the way reality works." :D 
    KooturHatefullTacticalZombeh

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Gdemami said:
    laserit said:
    It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.
    erm, so your point is...?
    My point is that when your a dick, people will usually respond in kind.
    HatefullIselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,545
    This is the sick part of our corporations, where a CEO gets a bonus for firing employees!  Kotick is a well known jerk anyways.  You could not get me to invest in Activision if you gave me the money.

    Gdemami
  • BossChonoBossChono Member UncommonPosts: 23
    Hatefull said:
    BossChono said:
    jonrd463 said:
    Asheram said:
    Ungood said:
    And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.
    It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way. 
    I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions.  Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.
    And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.
    Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added. 

    All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better. 

    Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.


    Depends on the industry really.  In my work all the different trades work together.  Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine.  Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting.  Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel.  Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float.  Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long.  Of course my company is pretty good.  If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them.  If you are lazy they will drop you.  Union doesn't matter

    Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us.  I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way.  We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.

    Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work.  They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours.  Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns.  I was super happy to get out of there.

    I don't know how unions work in other environments.  Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to.  So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates.  They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues.  Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

    Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

    Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.


    I think it's unique to my field of work i.e. road and bridge construction.  The work needs to get done and the BAs (Union reps) and the bosses know it.  My examples were for little tasks or for an hour or so.  If I ran a machine everyday not being an operator their BA would throw an absolute fit and I may very well get blacklisted.  But to move a load or something quick is fine.  If I built all day long (carpenter stuff) their BA would be on the job site yelling at my foreman saying we need more carpenters or trying to sign me up.  The "good" union guys tend to be the ones sitting at home on the out of work lists because they can't be flexible and no one wants their trouble.  We aren't like an auto union where we cannot get fired.  We can get fired if the boss is in a bad mood lol.

    Unions can be good, they can be bad.  I'm in one because when I started I had to be.  My healthcare is actually some of the best in the state, Vacation pay is great for holidays.  If I lose my job They try find me a new one.  They run trade schools so workers have good skills and aren't complete bumbling idiots.  They negotiate pay scales and raises.  They stand up if for us if we don't get payed right... as long as we pay them lol.  They often times overreach and demand too much and we don't get raises.  Example operators had a contract negotiation last year and asked for the moon.  All the ones working thought what they wanted was insane and it eventually led to a lockout.

    It is what it is to me.  They are not the evil mechanism for entitled workers to stay lazy and they are not the shining knight sent to slay the  corrupt king.  Yes they serve a purpose but just like any little company that gets big and suddenly is laying off 800 people while posting huge profits/revenue, they have to keep grounded not go insane with cartoonish dollar sign eyes.   It's all about working together for the benefit of the companies, the workers, and the investors. 


    KooturlaseritHatefull
  • KooturKootur Member UncommonPosts: 313
    edited February 15
    "These jobs weren't needed" Tell that to the 800 people now without a job. They needed that job.
    This corporate ass kissing and "billionaires can do no wrong" attitude is fucking appalling.

    Final post ever on this site, you've been taken over by dumbass alt-right conservatives in the comments.
    Bye Felecia . The jobs aren’t needed at the company. Sorry but they are a business not a charity 
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 2,925
    BossChono said:
    Hatefull said:
    BossChono said:
    jonrd463 said:
    Asheram said:
    Ungood said:
    And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.
    It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way. 
    I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions.  Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.
    And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.
    Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added. 

    All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better. 

    Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.


    Depends on the industry really.  In my work all the different trades work together.  Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine.  Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting.  Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel.  Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float.  Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long.  Of course my company is pretty good.  If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them.  If you are lazy they will drop you.  Union doesn't matter

    Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us.  I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way.  We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.

    Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work.  They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours.  Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns.  I was super happy to get out of there.

    I don't know how unions work in other environments.  Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to.  So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates.  They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues.  Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

    Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

    Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.


    I think it's unique to my field of work i.e. road and bridge construction.  The work needs to get done and the BAs (Union reps) and the bosses know it.  My examples were for little tasks or for an hour or so.  If I ran a machine everyday not being an operator their BA would throw an absolute fit and I may very well get blacklisted.  But to move a load or something quick is fine.  If I built all day long (carpenter stuff) their BA would be on the job site yelling at my foreman saying we need more carpenters or trying to sign me up.  The "good" union guys tend to be the ones sitting at home on the out of work lists because they can't be flexible and no one wants their trouble.  We aren't like an auto union where we cannot get fired.  We can get fired if the boss is in a bad mood lol.

    Unions can be good, they can be bad.  I'm in one because when I started I had to be.  My healthcare is actually some of the best in the state, Vacation pay is great for holidays.  If I lose my job They try find me a new one.  They run trade schools so workers have good skills and aren't complete bumbling idiots.  They negotiate pay scales and raises.  They stand up if for us if we don't get payed right... as long as we pay them lol.  They often times overreach and demand too much and we don't get raises.  Example operators had a contract negotiation last year and asked for the moon.  All the ones working thought what they wanted was insane and it eventually led to a lockout.

    It is what it is to me.  They are not the evil mechanism for entitled workers to stay lazy and they are not the shining knight sent to slay the  corrupt king.  Yes they serve a purpose but just like any little company that gets big and suddenly is laying off 800 people while posting huge profits/revenue, they have to keep grounded not go insane with cartoonish dollar sign eyes.   It's all about working together for the benefit of the companies, the workers, and the investors. 


    actually your union is really the reason to have a union, it works as joining everyone up to keep everyone working and in better health, too bad most,(if not all in my country that is), only work to keep they pockets full
    BossChono
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,233
    edited February 16
    Gdemami said:
    laserit said:
    It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.
    erm, so your point is...?
    Do you enjoy just looking ignorant and ill-informed? Honestly, are you just trolling or do you care to have an honest discussion? because thus far all you have done is LOL at people that have made an attempt at having a real discussion with you and ask for a point when a point has been legitimately and succinctly made. 

    [mod edit]


    Post edited by Vaross on
    laseritKooturTacticalZombehGdemamiMadFrenchieCryomatrix

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

This discussion has been closed.