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Blizzard employees crying and hugging in the parking lot

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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,963
    Wargfoot said:
    TimEisen said:
     This is why wealth distribution is at its worst since just before the great depression. 
    People say that yet I feel the average American has considerably more free time, opportunities, and overall wealth then ever before.  Many of our 'poor' have cell phones, cars, and apartments.

    I wonder if we even know what poor is anymore.

    I spent time working with a woman who was on assistance - she was poor and yet she had more food in her trailer, and could afford a phone, and 5 cats, and a truck.  She'd be the richest person for a hundred square miles in many countries today.
    Consider this !!!!
    -The rich are taking middle class money.
    -The poor you speak about are taking middle class money, by taxes.

    The car, cats and food are not a result of the rich giving back.  The middle class pays 2X
    Gdemami
  • shetlandslarsenshetlandslarsen Member UncommonPosts: 89
    It's the way of the world and a condition of the humen race. Can we change it? Yes. Will we change it. Nope,
    Wargfoot
  • MMObroMMObro Member UncommonPosts: 97
    Screw Blizzard. I will happily play nothing then play their games any longer. The employees remaining should be looking for jobs as who will be next this time next year? Another earnings call and another round of layoffs? Get out while you can...
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 248



    Consider this !!!!
    -The rich are taking middle class money.
    -The poor you speak about are taking middle class money, by taxes. 
    The only solution is to put the poor into re-education camps.

    Alright, everyone who doesn't have an iPhone get on the truck!

    ------------------------------------------

    Just as an aside, I didn't think political discussions were permitted here.
    I'm a bit confuzzled as to the rules.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Wargfoot said:



    Consider this !!!!
    -The rich are taking middle class money.
    -The poor you speak about are taking middle class money, by taxes. 
    The only solution is to put the poor into re-education camps.

    Alright, everyone who doesn't have an iPhone get on the truck!

    ------------------------------------------

    Just as an aside, I didn't think political discussions were permitted here.
    I'm a bit confuzzled as to the rules.
    Yeah, i don't have an iphone, not a fan of the venezuela diet either though i sure could stand to lose a few dozen pounds :s
    Wargfoot
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Phry said:
    Wargfoot said:



    Consider this !!!!
    -The rich are taking middle class money.
    -The poor you speak about are taking middle class money, by taxes. 
    The only solution is to put the poor into re-education camps.

    Alright, everyone who doesn't have an iPhone get on the truck!

    ------------------------------------------

    Just as an aside, I didn't think political discussions were permitted here.
    I'm a bit confuzzled as to the rules.
    Yeah, i don't have an iphone, not a fan of the venezuela diet either though i sure could stand to lose a few dozen pounds :s
    I assure you, we're only interested in your long term health.
    You are allowed to pack one bag.

    Truck leaves in 10...
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,587
    Some people went too deep too fast.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    Wargfoot said:
    Why is it that the same people who dislike Amazon and big business are usually the same people who want to turn all the health care over to single payer and totally eliminate competition in that sector?

    Off topic I know, but it hurts my brain.
    Back in the day, companies like Amazon would have been broken up into multiple smaller entities just like Bell Telephone thanks to anti Trust laws and this created much greater competition.  We live in the age of Monopolies.  Healthcare shouldn't be a "for profit" endeavor as they are mutually exclusive on moral grounds.  Non-profit means you focus on patient health, where "for profit" is all about the bottom line at the expense of the patient and even worse, millions of Americans without any healthcare at all.
    craftseeker

    image
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,465
    DMKano said:
    SBFord said:
    Heartbreaking. I can't imagine wondering and worrying for days without any idea if your job is in peril or not. Rumors are saying it's going to be in publishing and other non-development sectors, but how terrible. My heart aches for them.

    Blizzard has long been a staple of job stability in the video game industry. I know people that went to work at Blizzard because of a peace of mind - not having to worry constantly about being let go.

    Now that feeling is gone, and there is no safe spot in the video game industry anymore. Its truly terrible that this is happening as it will only result in more devs leaving the industry for good (which has been happening for a while already).

    Where have all the C̶o̶w̶b̶o̶y̶s̶ Developers gone?
    last I know the only place you had any stable work place is if you work for teh goverment, any other place you always have a chance to be fired, so maybe that is the reason for the lazy work lately? I know the goverment have a lot of these
    yep, and quite frankly, they should be held way more responsible for the bullshit they pull off ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 237
    Luiden said:
    DMKano said:
    SBFord said:
    Heartbreaking. I can't imagine wondering and worrying for days without any idea if your job is in peril or not. Rumors are saying it's going to be in publishing and other non-development sectors, but how terrible. My heart aches for them.

    Blizzard has long been a staple of job stability in the video game industry. I know people that went to work at Blizzard because of a peace of mind - not having to worry constantly about being let go.

    Now that feeling is gone, and there is no safe spot in the video game industry anymore. Its truly terrible that this is happening as it will only result in more devs leaving the industry for good (which has been happening for a while already).

    Where have all the C̶o̶w̶b̶o̶y̶s̶ Developers gone?
    To be frank, maybe that actually is the problem with Blizzard.  In my experience employees that feel too safe tend not to innovate, they are content with what they have and sit on it.  Those employees become corporate parasites without even knowing it.  You see this a lot with big companies who have great benefits and pay, they have a revenue stream that nobody dares touch and many employees are just riding that stream.

    If you look at Bizzard from a macro perspective what have they done over the past 10 to 15 years?  Once WoW took off they took that revenue stream and stopped innovating and introducing new IPs.  It's actually kind of embarrassing how few games they have put out given their revenue stream, and how few chances they took in terms of introducing new IP and new stories.

    So I get that it's a sad day, but just like Sears and many other companies that stopped taking risk they are on the decline... and the saddest thing is they don't have anything in their pipeline to change that.  Diablo Mobile is not going to cut it.      
    WOW!  Normally I like your posts. 

    You obviously have not followed Blizzard through the years.  They do come up with new games. They have multiple IPs to be proud of.  The thing that made Blizzard stand apart was no matter what and no matter how far into a development cycle they were, if they found that it just wasn't fun for the masses, they were not afraid to shut down the project.  That has happened several times over the years.

    Fast forward to today, it's about the almighty dollar and to hell how it impacts the game.  Between the cash shops selling $25 mounts, to $60 boosts, to selling tokens for $20 and allowing guilds to accept hundreds of thousands of gold for carries in content... which leads us back to players buying even more tokens to sell for in game gold on the AH, they have systematically destroyed World of Warcraft.  Forget about great game play, just find more shit to sell out of the cash shops.  That is what is embarrassing with Blizzard and Blizzard games today.  
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Wargfoot said:

    Just as an aside, I didn't think political discussions were permitted here.
    I'm a bit confuzzled as to the rules.
    This is not a political discussion it is a social economic discussion. Which is allowed, as it also pertains to things like Player Run Economies, and P2W in MMO's.
    Gdemami
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    Wizardry said:
    Sovrath said:


    Well like all walks of life,large corps are hit n miss,some are doing good things some are not and most we simply can't trust one way or another.
    EVERYTHING that is wrong in this world is about power and money.Me or any average person could make 100k a year in gaming we would be thrilled,top execs,investors want to see huge numbers or they are not happy and start pointing fingers.

    The other aspect is when large corps are making loads of money,they start to do some good things,well every corp except pharmaceuticals lol,they just continue to scam the world of money.

    They say that Kotick clown made 24+ million in 2012 although much of it deferred.In 2017 he made 23 million,that is outrageous numbers,they say 300x the median for a ceo in his position.

    Imagine how many jobs that could supply Blizzard if one asshat wasn't leeching it all?

    Refer to the other thread on my long diatribe of capitalism and why I think CEO's are justified in their position. 

    How many jobs do you really think 20 million will net you? If each person on average makes 40k salary, it probably costs the company close to 50k with health insurance and benefits. 

    50k x 20 people = $1 million per year. 

    so you can probably support 400 people for $20 million a year. 400 people who probably don't actually make the company money. 

    LOOK BELOW to see the importance of a CEO. 

    Activision Blizzard Annual Net Income
    (Millions of US $)
    2018                                           $578
    2017$273
    2016$962
    2015$881
    2014$817
    2013$987
    2012$1,125
    2011$1,069
    2010$414
    2009$112
    2008$-107
    2007$227
    2007$86
    2006$139
    2006$40
    2005$135

    Wow, under the CEO's direction, they more than doubled their net income . . . he added $300 million in a year. So please tell me, how much should a person who was the major one responsible for that be paid?

    How much would you pay a person who just made you $300 million more than last year? 500k? 1 million? 10 x median salary? . . . 


    Now should a company like blizzard be like, oh hey, we made half a billion in profit, we can keep these people employed for ever .. . . 



    https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ATVI/activision-blizzard/net-income
    Do you have any objective measure whatsoever to prove what percentage of profit change is directly attributable to the CEO position alone?

    Any at all?  Anything that guarantees or leads to an even reasonable assurance that, had they hired another CEO (all other factors being identical), it would've led to a massive amount of lost profit potential?  And, incidentally, if you do, can you provide further evidence that there wasn't an even better option they could've taken?

    Do you have insider knowledge of how hands-on that CEO was with every key decision that may have contributed?  Whether he shook things up in each department, or largely kept them intact?  Something you can show us?
    Not to mention that his shill answer doesn't even consider the mismanagement that occurred that put Blizzard in the position it finds itself it.

    Releasing 800+ employees (they aren't done yet) was a reaction to the stock market and CEOs bleeding money out of the stocks upon leaving. There is still the investor lawsuit possibility and that may have played into it too.

    These layoffs were nearly entirely done to appease stock holders. It could have been handled much earlier and in a more humane way and Acti-Blizz would have seen the need for adjustment far, far earlier than now. This is a leadership failure, pure and simple.
    MadFrenchieGdemami

    You stay sassy!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,478
         
    WOW!  Normally I like your posts. 

    You obviously have not followed Blizzard through the years.  They do come up with new games. <snip>  
    Since Diablo Mobile was touched on above fun fact: it was a company called Condor Games that initially worked on Diablo - albeit for Blizzard. Prior to the games release Blizzard bought them and renamed the company Blizzard North. 

    Which goes to show that acquisitions can work - but there are also examples of them not working out as well; King seems to be falling into the not really working out category, if they carry on losing MAUs at their current rate there will be no King in 3 years!
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 855
    Gorwe said:
    Shareholders are basically people living free off someone else's work. It makes complete sense that the only thing they care about is profit. Imagine if you went to BWin and earned 2x the deposit every time. Would be awesome, no? This is just what shareholders do. Risk their money in a hope of earning muchos pesos. And not care about much else.

    It's a suicide for creativity and freedom.
    The very fact that shareholders are risking their money on uncertain profits negates your contention they are "living free" off the work of others.

    Risk is not free.

    On top of that, the risk shareholders take on when they invest is just as likely to provide more in the way of employment opportunity with the company as the newly derived resources are put to use. Workers can just as easily be said to live off the investments made and risks taken by shareholders as the other way around.

    In fact, shareholders and employees feed off and feed each other.

    It is a symbiotic relationship.
    Cryomatrix
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 855
    put funds back into the product. 

    This will improve costumer relations, help in saving jobs, and over all be the right thing. 



    BUT instead..... They take it all, every time, leaving nothing, zero !!!!! 
    They do.

    That is where WoW expansions come from. That is where Classic WoW is coming from. That is where Diablo 4, and other Diablo products will come from. That is where the Warcraft revamp is coming from. And so on and on.

    To contend that they aren't reinvesting some of their profits into their games is absurd.
  • BossChonoBossChono Member UncommonPosts: 23

    What an interesting turn to this thread.  I'm going to have to call my union hall and see if any of my pension or 401k or annuity is invested in Activision stock to see if I'm one of the bad guys here.  I hope not, my pension and annuity just got back to where it was before around 2008.

     Can't take anymore losses since I have a bunch of friends retiring soon and they need the money that they put in.  Not too worried though since us laborers don't tend to live too long from all the silica, lead, chemicals, welding fumes, nerve damage, and other general wear and tear we go through so people can have nice smooth roads till winter messes them up again (hurray Michigan potholes... the bane of my car and the salvation of my mortgage lender!  lol)

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,963
    edited February 15
    put funds back into the product. 

    This will improve costumer relations, help in saving jobs, and over all be the right thing. 



    BUT instead..... They take it all, every time, leaving nothing, zero !!!!! 
    They do.

    That is where WoW expansions come from. That is where Classic WoW is coming from. That is where Diablo 4, and other Diablo products will come from. That is where the Warcraft revamp is coming from. And so on and on.

    To contend that they aren't reinvesting some of their profits into their games is absurd.
    Totally off track from the meaning of this,
    EVERYTHING you stated here is NOT putting money back into the product but charging for something as brand new.... Thats what expansions are, charging for brand new, thats what a Diablo4 would be.... Do you think the consumer will be getting away with classic WoW for simply a standard $14.99 a month..... Modern business does not allow that !

    WoW classic goes way beyond getting the game up and running... It's more about increased, maximum profit !

    Way back when, Blizzard was much more reputable than SOE, they took the $14.99 and re-invested it back in.  They went well above simply fixing bugs.... SOE took the profits and ran.  SOE's motto "want more for your money ?... Pay for it with expansions" 

    I can't even count the expansions developed for EQ1 and 2.  Eventually Blizzard turned greedy just the same.  Why are you playing $14.95 a month ?.... to keep servers up ?
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 855
    put funds back into the product. 

    This will improve costumer relations, help in saving jobs, and over all be the right thing. 



    BUT instead..... They take it all, every time, leaving nothing, zero !!!!! 
    They do.

    That is where WoW expansions come from. That is where Classic WoW is coming from. That is where Diablo 4, and other Diablo products will come from. That is where the Warcraft revamp is coming from. And so on and on.

    To contend that they aren't reinvesting some of their profits into their games is absurd.
    Totally off track from the meaning of this,
    EVERYTHING you stated here is NOT putting money back into the product but charging for something as brand new.... Thats what expansions are, charging for brand new, thats what a Diablo4 would be.... Do you think the consumer will be getting away with classic WoW for simply a standard $14.99 a month..... Modern business does not allow that !

    WoW classic goes way beyond getting the game up and running... It's more about increased, maximum profit !

    Way back when, Blizzard was much more reputable than SOE, they took the $14.99 and re-invested it back in.  They went well above simply fixing bugs.... SOE took the profits and ran.  SOE's motto "want more for your money ?... Pay for it with expansions" 

    I can't even count the expansions developed for EQ1 and 2.  Eventually Blizzard turned greedy just the same.  Why are you playing $14.95 a month ?.... to keep servers up ?
    Oh, sure, because all of that development just happens as if by magic, performed free of charge by Keebler elves with a gaming fetish.

    To sell something you must first have something to sell. The creation of that something to sell consumes resources. For resources to be consumed they must first exist. In the case of a successful ongoing company the source of these resources is reinvested profits.

    So, yes, money is going back into product routinely, whether it be further development of existing products or development of new ones.

    The $15 a month ongoing charge covers ongoing expenses, not only for WoW but those of their several games that don't charge for monthly access, such as Diablo. Any excess becomes part of their profits, with a portion of that reinvested.

    I expect WoW Classic to involve some premium pricing by virtue of being a Blizzard product. They remain one of the few companies with a large enough customer base for that to be their comfortable norm. Of course Classic WoW is being made with the expectation it will increase revenue. Everything for profit companies do is ultimately for that purpose.

    Modern business allows for all kinds of things in terms of marketing model and business practices, as the varied approaches of online game providers amply demonstrate.
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 248
    I feel like way too often the CEO/President of a company is given way too much credit when it comes to success or, conversely, layoffs and failure.

    I'm sure every gaming company would love to have the formula for determining the next greatest thing.  So many factors to consider - I don't think these guys have crystal balls.  Hell, even an economic downturn could cause this despite the very best efforts of the most intelligently run company.

    It is possible that if we had inside knowledge we'd all be like "Why didn't they do this years ago?".  Maybe the company was legit overstaffed?
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,963
    put funds back into the product. 

    This will improve costumer relations, help in saving jobs, and over all be the right thing. 



    BUT instead..... They take it all, every time, leaving nothing, zero !!!!! 
    They do.

    That is where WoW expansions come from. That is where Classic WoW is coming from. That is where Diablo 4, and other Diablo products will come from. That is where the Warcraft revamp is coming from. And so on and on.

    To contend that they aren't reinvesting some of their profits into their games is absurd.
    Totally off track from the meaning of this,
    EVERYTHING you stated here is NOT putting money back into the product but charging for something as brand new.... Thats what expansions are, charging for brand new, thats what a Diablo4 would be.... Do you think the consumer will be getting away with classic WoW for simply a standard $14.99 a month..... Modern business does not allow that !

    WoW classic goes way beyond getting the game up and running... It's more about increased, maximum profit !

    Way back when, Blizzard was much more reputable than SOE, they took the $14.99 and re-invested it back in.  They went well above simply fixing bugs.... SOE took the profits and ran.  SOE's motto "want more for your money ?... Pay for it with expansions" 

    I can't even count the expansions developed for EQ1 and 2.  Eventually Blizzard turned greedy just the same.  Why are you playing $14.95 a month ?.... to keep servers up ?
    Oh, sure, because all of that development just happens as if by magic, performed free of charge by Keebler elves with a gaming fetish.

    To sell something you must first have something to sell. The creation of that something to sell consumes resources. For resources to be consumed they must first exist. In the case of a successful ongoing company the source of these resources is reinvested profits.

    So, yes, money is going back into product routinely, whether it be further development of existing products or development of new ones.

    The $15 a month ongoing charge covers ongoing expenses, not only for WoW but those of their several games that don't charge for monthly access, such as Diablo. Any excess becomes part of their profits, with a portion of that reinvested.

    I expect WoW Classic to involve some premium pricing by virtue of being a Blizzard product. They remain one of the few companies with a large enough customer base for that to be their comfortable norm. Of course Classic WoW is being made with the expectation it will increase revenue. Everything for profit companies do is ultimately for that purpose.

    Modern business allows for all kinds of things in terms of marketing model and business practices, as the varied approaches of online game providers amply demonstrate.
    The entire magic, Keebler elves, and the word absurd is a bunch of crap.

    You know the huge profit margin being made just by the single game itself, then the charge of monthly charge added on top of that.....Sure large return on investment is expected.  The point I was originally getting across is simply to put some return in investment back in.

    They make an expansion, charge like a new game, only fix whats needed, charge $15 more a month and LAY PEOPLE OFF....Nothing back for anyone.... Do they have to ?... sure they don't.

    This is everyones rebuttal,( read all the replies before me).....Were all airing our pissed-offness !  

    Your making it a bigger deal than it is, and adding absurd  
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 855
    Wargfoot said:
    I feel like way too often the CEO/President of a company is given way too much credit when it comes to success or, conversely, layoffs and failure.

    I'm sure every gaming company would love to have the formula for determining the next greatest thing.  So many factors to consider - I don't think these guys have crystal balls.  Hell, even an economic downturn could cause this despite the very best efforts of the most intelligently run company.

    It is possible that if we had inside knowledge we'd all be like "Why didn't they do this years ago?".  Maybe the company was legit overstaffed?
    The top dogs have the most internal impact over long-term strategy and the results thereof, so naturally draw the greatest praise when things go well and greatest critique when they don't. Even if negative issues are caused by external factors questions will likely be raised as to why these problems weren't anticipated and mitigated against with a change in strategy. They don't have crystal balls, but generally have access to a wealth of information on which to base decisions, all the more so the longer a company endures.

    As to staffing needs, yesterday's adequate can become today's excess, especially if current or expected future circumstances suggest the above mentioned mitigation is needed. It is no surprise that staff reductions happen at the lowest level possible. Such employees are generally the easiest to replace if more staff is needed in the future, due to their jobs requiring comparatively less qualification and training than that of higher positions.
    Cryomatrix
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 248
    To be honest, I had no idea to the size of the company.
    I wouldn't think a game company would have 800 people to let go.

    Maybe I've been playing too many indie games.
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 622
    put funds back into the product. 

    This will improve costumer relations, help in saving jobs, and over all be the right thing. 



    BUT instead..... They take it all, every time, leaving nothing, zero !!!!! 
    They do.

    That is where WoW expansions come from. That is where Classic WoW is coming from. That is where Diablo 4, and other Diablo products will come from. That is where the Warcraft revamp is coming from. And so on and on.

    To contend that they aren't reinvesting some of their profits into their games is absurd.
    Totally off track from the meaning of this,
    EVERYTHING you stated here is NOT putting money back into the product but charging for something as brand new.... Thats what expansions are, charging for brand new, thats what a Diablo4 would be.... Do you think the consumer will be getting away with classic WoW for simply a standard $14.99 a month..... Modern business does not allow that !

    WoW classic goes way beyond getting the game up and running... It's more about increased, maximum profit !

    Way back when, Blizzard was much more reputable than SOE, they took the $14.99 and re-invested it back in.  They went well above simply fixing bugs.... SOE took the profits and ran.  SOE's motto "want more for your money ?... Pay for it with expansions" 

    I can't even count the expansions developed for EQ1 and 2.  Eventually Blizzard turned greedy just the same.  Why are you playing $14.95 a month ?.... to keep servers up ?
    Oh, sure, because all of that development just happens as if by magic, performed free of charge by Keebler elves with a gaming fetish.

    To sell something you must first have something to sell. The creation of that something to sell consumes resources. For resources to be consumed they must first exist. In the case of a successful ongoing company the source of these resources is reinvested profits.

    So, yes, money is going back into product routinely, whether it be further development of existing products or development of new ones.

    The $15 a month ongoing charge covers ongoing expenses, not only for WoW but those of their several games that don't charge for monthly access, such as Diablo. Any excess becomes part of their profits, with a portion of that reinvested.

    I expect WoW Classic to involve some premium pricing by virtue of being a Blizzard product. They remain one of the few companies with a large enough customer base for that to be their comfortable norm. Of course Classic WoW is being made with the expectation it will increase revenue. Everything for profit companies do is ultimately for that purpose.

    Modern business allows for all kinds of things in terms of marketing model and business practices, as the varied approaches of online game providers amply demonstrate.
    The entire magic, Keebler elves, and the word absurd is a bunch of crap.

    You know the huge profit margin being made just by the single game itself, then the charge of monthly charge added on top of that.....Sure large return on investment is expected.  The point I was originally getting across is simply to put some return in investment back in.

    They make an expansion, charge like a new game, only fix whats needed, charge $15 more a month and LAY PEOPLE OFF....Nothing back for anyone.... Do they have to ?... sure they don't.

    This is everyones rebuttal,( read all the replies before me).....Were all airing our pissed-offness !  

    Your making it a bigger deal than it is, and adding absurd  
    Revenue does not equal profit and they over hire for prelaunch and launch off games...in this scenario the employees know the deal when they are hired.

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