The Golden Age PvP

bcbully · February 2019

I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well.

Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”.

My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s fast paced world?

What are your thoughts?

Yours Truly,
The Bull

Phry · February 2019

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

bcbully · February 2019

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

I see your not taking the change well.

Phry · February 2019

bcbully said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

I see your not taking the change well.

What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'

iixviiiix · February 2019

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .

Phry · February 2019

iixviiiix said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

Yes, they were weren't they

Now how big are those games these days outside of the Asian market

bcbully · February 2019

Phry said:

bcbully said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

I see your not taking the change well.

What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'

My beloved ESO. Wildstar chose the raid or die path, while ESO built Cyridil.

You couldn’t become Emperor and change the entire world for every player running dungeons

Phry · February 2019

bcbully said:

Phry said:

bcbully said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

I see your not taking the change well.

What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'

My beloved ESO. Wildstar chose the raid or die path, while ESO built Cyridil.

You couldn’t become Emperor and change the entire world for ever player running dungeons

Or ignore Cyrodiil altogether and just do dungeons with friends etc. Got to have the PVE after all, or its a dead game, more dungeons in the last expac too, funny that

Scot · February 2019

There certainly a lot more PvP about, just not sure I would call in Golden.

We have kiddified games like Fortnite and content light survival games as the new flagships of PvP. If you think that's better than a proper shooter or Realm versus Realm MMO then you need to aim higher, high enough to hit your opposition's head.

Cryomatrix · February 2019

I used to duel in diablo 2 hardcore, no hacks, no cheats in my early 20's, 10 years later, i was doing 1v1 competitively in starcraft 2 and when i lost for stupidity, i'd smash my mouse.

Now im a few years short of 40 and i dont have the heart to pvp any more . . . In survival games i go with pve first, perhaps because the pvp is surviving before i go against another player.

[Deleted User] · February 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

alkarionlog · February 2019

golden age of pvp was around 2k year with some MMOrpg who place a lot on pvp for a end, be it to keep forts or to get rewards, in the end people organized to a end.

nowadays? looks more like small tribes trying to scrape by what is left from the golden ages, you just pop in try to play then move on

op looks like is 18 mYo or something, not old enough to know what he is missing, with is kinda nice for him, he can get happy with the lazy games today

iixviiiix said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .

that is actually a problem, only moba who is still alive is LOL and Dota all the others come and goes

Sovrath · February 2019

bcbully said:

I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well.

Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”.

My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s fast paced world?

What are your thoughts?

Yours Truly,
The Bull

I love pvp but haven't seen any pvp games worth playing.

Thane · February 2019

bcbully said:

I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well.

Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”.

My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s fast paced world?

What are your thoughts?

Yours Truly,
The Bull

errrm.... "every multi-player game"?
shesh. your view is kinda.... restricted dude.

Anthem, Division 2, FarCry New Dawn, Gears5, MechWarrior5, Mortal Kombat 11, Rage 2, Wolfenstein Youngblood...

sorry, but i tend to disagree on that one.

PvP is a niche, will always be. there are a few PvP games comming out, and even less of them which i am interested in (Camelot Unchained)...

so... could you maybe mention all those pvp games comming? bc i must have somehow missed em

[Deleted User] · February 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Theocritus · February 2019

and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.

[Deleted User] · February 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath · February 2019

Theocritus said:

and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.

There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.

alkarionlog · February 2019

Sovrath said:

Theocritus said:

and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.

There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.

no is not, theme park games tend to be a lot of text, with most don't read, i'm crazy enough to read all my quests given at least once, if I don't bother to read it, then the game is really short lived for my interest, with means I will quit soon

and I don't read anyone saying pvp is lazy, we are saying the gameplay lately(last 5 years) is lazy, taht means ALL games, its the same thing over and over, with no creative thing behind, with in the end when we mention a old game saying we want that, most devs will just try to copy the way the game did(and doing it badly) but forgot the essense of what make these games great, they was teh very first to do something and put enough effort to see every detail, with we lack a lot today,

hell I tell you this making a good pvp game is a lot harder then a themed park

Sovrath · February 2019

alkarionlog said:

Sovrath said:

Theocritus said:

and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.

There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.

no is not, theme park games tend to be a lot of text, with most don't read, i'm crazy enough to read all my quests given at least once, if I don't bother to read it, then the game is really short lived for my interest, with means I will quit soon

and I don't read anyone saying pvp is lazy, we are saying the gameplay lately(last 5 years) is lazy, taht means ALL games, its the same thing over and over, with no creative thing behind, with in the end when we mention a old game saying we want that, most devs will just try to copy the way the game did(and doing it badly) but forgot the essense of what make these games great, they was teh very first to do something and put enough effort to see every detail, with we lack a lot today,

hell I tell you this making a good pvp game is a lot harder then a themed park

Well, this is Theocritus:" I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game." And that is the statement I responded to.

I'm like you, if i don't read the text of a quest then the game is not worth playing and "yes" making a pvp game that keeps people, that gives solid reasons to pvp is very hard.

iixviiiix · February 2019

alkarionlog said:

golden age of pvp was around 2k year with some MMOrpg who place a lot on pvp for a end, be it to keep forts or to get rewards, in the end people organized to a end.

nowadays? looks more like small tribes trying to scrape by what is left from the golden ages, you just pop in try to play then move on

op looks like is 18 mYo or something, not old enough to know what he is missing, with is kinda nice for him, he can get happy with the lazy games today

iixviiiix said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .

that is actually a problem, only moba who is still alive is LOL and Dota all the others come and goes

That's because idk about that genre and those 2 are one who still in top condition , you sure there aren't any gem that hidden around ? for example OW is PVP , TF2 is PVP . most FPS games are PVP , RTS game too . Card games also PVP .

I just disagree with him that he said PVP focus game have limited shelf life

ultimateduck · February 2019

Is "PvP" becoming a generic term, like Kleenex for tissue or Google for an internet search, for any game that has players fighting other players? I've always contributed PvP (and RvR) to MMO's that have player vs player. Other games that pit players against each other, such as MOBAs or FPSs, it was just implied.

alkarionlog · February 2019

iixviiiix said:

alkarionlog said:

golden age of pvp was around 2k year with some MMOrpg who place a lot on pvp for a end, be it to keep forts or to get rewards, in the end people organized to a end.

nowadays? looks more like small tribes trying to scrape by what is left from the golden ages, you just pop in try to play then move on

op looks like is 18 mYo or something, not old enough to know what he is missing, with is kinda nice for him, he can get happy with the lazy games today

iixviiiix said:

Phry said:

Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life.

Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .

that is actually a problem, only moba who is still alive is LOL and Dota all the others come and goes

That's because idk about that genre and those 2 are one who still in top condition , you sure there aren't any gem that hidden around ? for example OW is PVP , TF2 is PVP . most FPS games are PVP , RTS game too . Card games also PVP .
I just disagree with him that he said PVP focus game have limited shelf life

most of his examples was from battle royal, there is a reason why these games are marked as BR and not pvp, or overwatch as a moba and not pvp, if you mark something as only pvp its goes to a hell a lot of places and that is something it is done not a genre per see, saying pvp is this is the same as saying quests is that and we know even mobas have some quests now, or daily tasks, that is actually a limiting factor then helping on example, and since most here are thinking on BR as the only pvp who people think

Lokero · February 2019

PvP in MMOs is still pretty horrible, but it pretty much dominates the market in other genres. I'm not sure this will change anytime soon. People who play PVP tend to want fair matchups, and MMOs rarely offer themselves as fair fights.

It is interesting that even many PVP games have added many PVE progression elements, in some cases even NPC enemies, etc.

Many of the most popular games have features like these: FPS, MOBAs, etc.

People clearly like the typical systems that thrived in PVE, but not the types of games they were built around.

If someone could manage to find the perfect mix, I imagine they'd an incredible hit on their hands. Currently, I suppose the closest thing is survival/BR games, and that's why they are so popular.

Palebane · February 2019

Haven’t really enjoyed pvp in any game since Team Fortress 2, and Quake 2 before that, outside of sports games and Mortal Combat.

Oh I lied, I played WoW pvp before battlegrounds, and shortly after, which was pretty fun at the time. I feel like thats a bad example though as I’ve heard EvE and DAoC had really good pvp in their heyday.

Iselin · February 2019

Quick session casual PvP has always been much more popular than MMORPGs ever since Doom and Quake. If that's your thing then fill your boots.

But don't confuse what the casual mob likes with RPG worlds, whether they have PvP or not.

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The Golden Age PvP

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