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Awkward to play on a controller

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
With Kritika down yesterday, I decided to give this game a shot.  I had avoided it years ago because click to move is usually death to controllers.  I use a controller because heavy mouse usage is just asking for repetitive strain injuries.  But someone on this forum recently insisted that the game is perfectly fine on a controller, so I decided to give it a shot.

Movement is decidedly awkward.  It's a click to move game, and playing it on a controller felt like click to move always does on a controller:  really awkward.  It didn't get me killed, as you don't need to move much during combat at the low levels.  I'm not sure if that's just because the low levels are easy, or if the whole game is built around standing there and blasting away, and only moving either to flee or to go to the next battle.

Attacking was less bad than I expected, but still far from good.  Mobs basically just stand there and attack, letting you blast away in return.  I'm not sure if that's again just a case of the low levels being easy, or if the whole game is like that.  If mobs want to run around a lot, they could be very, very difficult to beat with a controller.

The boxes to click on to attack a mob are fairly large, which helps.  But if you click and miss, then instead of attacking, you run to the spot you clicked.  I'm aware that you can assign a button to shift to stop moving, but that uses a scarce button.  I'm not sure if you need quick access to all of the skill slots, but it sure looks like you do for all five flask slots.

The lack of control configuration options was definitely a disappointment.  The game doesn't let you assign skills to combinations of keys, which means that you've got however many buttons you've got and that's it.  Logitech's software does let me assign one button to toggle between two independent mappings of all other buttons, and without that, the game would be unplayable.  But that's something that ought to be built into games rather than relying on external software, and Logitech's software limits that effect to just one button.  Also problematic is that it is hard-coded and unchangeable that your base attack must be mouse left click.

I'm not actually worried about the inventory tetris side of things.  I could see that being a huge problem if you try to play exclusively on a controller, such as on a game console.  But I have no problem with using a mouse now and then.  The problem is aggressive mouse usage for an hour at a time, which is why I want to use a controller for most of the game.

The game itself didn't seem bad.  If easy, precise controls of movement and/or attacking become important at higher levels, then the game will become very awkward to play on a controller.  And if not, then the combat will get highly repetitive and boring.

Ultimately, Kritika is back up today, so I'm back to playing that.  I'm not sure if I'll ever give Path of Exile another shot.  I certainly would if the controls were more comfortable.  Is there anything that I missed to make the game more controller-friendly?  For example, a way to switch to WASD movement?  I see that there's an Xbox One version and a PS4 version coming, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to play those if it's as awkward as using a controller on the PC version--and without the option to grab a keyboard or mouse now and then when you really need to.
rojoArcueid

Comments

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,015
    edited February 1
    I quit this game due to it being point and click and i'm waiting for the PS4 version, but it would be a shame if they don't make good controls. ARPGs tend to play amazingly well as twin stick games.

    Diablo 1 and 3 (console version), Marvel Heroes (both PC and console versions), Brotherhood of Steel (PS2), Torchlight (XB360)and many more played really well with a controller.

    If they just remap WASD or point and drag to a controller scheme then it will be a mess. I stopped using XPadder because not all games feel right with it. They have to design gameplay using the controller like the games i mentioned above.




  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    I quit this game due to it being point and click and i'm waiting for the PS4 version, but it would be a shame if they don't make good controls. ARPGs tend to play amazingly well as twin stick games.

    Diablo 1 and 3 (console version), Marvel Heroes (both PC and console versions), Brotherhood of Steel (PS2), Torchlight (XB360)and many more played really well with a controller.

    If they just remap WASD or point and drag to a controller scheme then it will be a mess. I stopped using XPadder because not all games feel right with it. They have to design gameplay using the controller like the games i mentioned above.
    I haven't played any of the games that you mention.  The problem is that as it is, the game relies very heavily on moving a mouse pointer around and using it to click on things.  Moving a mouse pointer with a thumbstick is awkward.  It works so long as you don't need to move very fast or very precisely, but that's not a good description of action combat.

    If you had WASD movement, then you could easily map that to a D-pad on a controller and movement would be fine.  Having to click on mobs to attack them would still be awkward, but attacking in whatever direction you're facing would work fine.  That works great in Tree of Savior, for example.  That's simply not how the Path of Exile is designed, though.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,061
    I cant imagine why your having trouble controlling your PC game with a Console controller, I'm stumped.
    Beezerbeez
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    goboygo said:
    I cant imagine why your having trouble controlling your PC game with a Console controller, I'm stumped.
    I'm using a Logitech F310, not a console controller.

    But if the game isn't supposed to be played using a controller, then why is there a console version of it?

    A lot of PC games work fine with a controller, including Kritika Online, which is what I've been playing lately.
    Beezerbeez
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,795
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,742
    Well don't use a controller, who does anyway? :)

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
    What is "mouse region"?  I've tried using a thumbstick to control the mouse pointer, but that's awkward.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,123
    Scot said:
    Well don't use a controller, who does anyway? :)
    Well, I won't speak for quizzical, but when I was operated I couldn't sit down without hurting real badly. I resorted to try gaming from my bed lying on the side. If you want to game, controller is the only option unless you play some specific games which don't require twitch reaction. 

    For the first time ever I tried Tree of Saviour and that game was quite fun and playable with a controller. I don't see why games like path of exiles couldn't work when they have the same camera angle and being both action games.
    QuizzicalrojoArcueid

  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,795
    edited February 2
    Quizzical said:
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
    What is "mouse region"?  I've tried using a thumbstick to control the mouse pointer, but that's awkward.

    Mostly what this guy does, but is a old video but it still works for moving out a bad times. I'm Pretty sure you don't need steam controller to set up mouse region. In the video 1:27 can see him moving the charater with just the joystick.

    BloodaxesQuizzicalcheyane
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    Quizzical said:
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
    What is "mouse region"?  I've tried using a thumbstick to control the mouse pointer, but that's awkward.

    Mostly what this guy does, but is a old video but it still works for moving out a bad times. I'm Pretty sure you don't need steam controller to set up mouse region. In the video 1:27 can see him moving the charater with just the joystick.

    Thank you for that video, but it presents at least three problems:

    1)  That functionality to use a thumbstick to mimic WASD movement in a game that doesn't support WASD movement relies on particular controller software for a particular controller that I don't have.

    2)  If the mouse pointer is tied to the thumbstick position, then you can't click on things that aren't right next to you.  That would work fine for movement in an empty world, but ranged attacks would become impossible.

    3)  Path of Exile has hard-coded into the game that the button you click to move and the button for your basic attack must both be the left mouse button.  Some control options can be changed, but those two things are hard-coded in and cannot be changed.  That would mean that if you're trying to move past a mob, you'll instead stop to attack it.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,256
    The controller support for this game isn't very easy to use at all, but ARPG's in general aren't usually easy with a controller. I tried it on the Xbox on launch just to see how it worked, and it's doable, but it's definitely not made with this in mind.
  • rertezrertez Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Quizzical said:
    goboygo said:
    I cant imagine why your having trouble controlling your PC game with a Console controller, I'm stumped.
    I'm using a Logitech F310, not a console controller.

    But if the game isn't supposed to be played using a controller, then why is there a console version of it?

    A lot of PC games work fine with a controller, including Kritika Online, which is what I've been playing lately.
    The console version of ARPG's usually have completely reworked controls and UI after the PC version's success. Devs just don't really bother implementing those into the PC version after the console launch. I believe the PC version of Diablo 3 didn't inherit those console controls despite the game was released on XBox and on other consoles too. The console versions even have couch coop support while the PC version doesn't.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,015
    edited February 2
    Quizzical said:
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
    What is "mouse region"?  I've tried using a thumbstick to control the mouse pointer, but that's awkward.
    I think i know now why you are having problems in PoE using a controller. Since there is no native controller support on PC you get the cursor movement mapped to the analog stick, right?

    That's not how ARPGs play on console and the PC versions that do have native controller support either. You attack in the direction you are facing, there is no cursor in game. The entire gameplay is redesigned to play on a controller if you chose that option, not an imitation of mouse/kb usage.

    Before Marvel Heroes added gamepad support i had the same problem you have with moving a cursor with a stick using Xpadder. That is indeed awkward, until they added native controller support and removed cursor gameplay when the controller was chosen. And MH didn't have WASD support.

    TLDR; devs have to redesign gameplay to use a controller (everyone has done this), not remap mouse/kb to it.

    EDIT: if you play Van Helsing or Victor Vran on PC using a controller, that's how ARPGs play on console and on PC with native controller support as well.




  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    Quizzical said:
    Have you try mouse region on path of elixe seem to work a bit good in Torchlight II set up for when I use my steam controller. Does help moving out of trouble combat is another story.
    What is "mouse region"?  I've tried using a thumbstick to control the mouse pointer, but that's awkward.
    I think i know now why you are having problems in PoE using a controller. Since there is no native controller support on PC you get the cursor movement mapped to the analog stick, right?

    That's not how ARPGs play on console and the PC versions that do have native controller support either. You attack in the direction you are facing, there is no cursor in game. The entire gameplay is redesigned to play on a controller if you chose that option, not an imitation of mouse/kb usage.

    Before Marvel Heroes added gamepad support i had the same problem you have with moving a cursor with a stick using Xpadder. That is indeed awkward, until they added native controller support and removed cursor gameplay when the controller was chosen. And MH didn't have WASD support.

    TLDR; devs have to redesign gameplay to use a controller (everyone has done this), not remap mouse/kb to it.
    Not necessarily.  I've played a lot of PC games using a controller that worked pretty well with a controller.  I've never played a PC game with built-in controller support that worked right out of the box.

    A lot of PC games nominally have controller support.  In some cases, it's mainly so that they can claim that they have controller support, and not actually intended to be useful to anyone.  In other cases, it almost works except for this or that little problem.  Maybe it does work out of the box on the one controller that the developers used for testing, but that's about it.  Regardless, it's always preferable to just disable the built-in controller support and use external software.

    And in a lot of games, that works very well.  That includes Kritika Online, which is what I'm playing now.  It includes Tree of Savior, as Bloodaxes mentioned above.  Spiral Knights, Elsword, and Hyper Universe are probably easier to play with a controller than keyboard+mouse.  Champions Online and Trove are very controller-friendly, too.  Even games like Guild Wars 2 and Neverwinter that are kind of awkward are still very playable with a controller.

    It probably wouldn't be very hard to make Path of Exile pretty controller-friendly, too.  Add WASD movement as an option rather than requiring click to move, allow mapping functions to combinations of buttons, allow mapping your main attack to something other than the left mouse button, and that's it.  None of those are difficult to do.  Presumably Grinding Gear Games wants people who use controllers not to play their game.  Which makes it baffling that they'd put in the effort to port it to consoles.
  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    edited February 2
    Cursor control while using a controller is nowhere near as accurate as what can be accomplished with a keyboard and mouse.  Controllers have a lot fewer keys.   

    One of the controls in Path of Exile that is readily available via keyboard is the ability to prevent your avatar from moving by the use of the Shift key.  If a controller doesn't present the easy ability to not move your avatar in PoE then that is a significant game changer.

    I can see where Quzzical is having difficulty using a controller with Path of Exile.  Issue one is a much slower cursor movement combined with the inherent poor accuracy of a controller.  Issue two is the inability to prevent your avatar from moving when you don't want it to move.
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • BakgrindBakgrind Member UncommonPosts: 398
    edited February 2
    Scot said:
    Well don't use a controller, who does anyway? :)
     The  xbox type controller is is able to be adapted for many different functions or activities. :) 



    Edit: Bah, I never can get it to play at the location I want. Skip to 4:38 for the demonstration.
  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,565
    edited February 2
    Quizzical said:
     I see that there's an Xbox One version and a PS4 version coming, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to play those if it's as awkward as using a controller on the PC version--and without the option to grab a keyboard or mouse now and then when you really need to.


    There is already an Xbox One version of Path of Exile. Not clear on the PS4 version, but sounds like it'll be out this month. Don't have a PS myself, so can't really offer any further commentary on that.

    I know you were asking about controller usability in https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7411947#Comment_7411947. As I said in that thread: "While the movement is a bit more natural (in my opinion) on console, the inventory management is more of a pain." So, where you gain in the removal of click-to-move, you lose in other areas of usability.

    For me, the game was enjoyable using either (PC) kb+mouse or (console) controller, but that's really just a matter of personal taste and I can see where either would be a turn-off for other people. Sorry to hear it didn't click (no pun intended) for you, but glad a game you sound like you enjoy is back up today. :)

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    mklinic said:
    Quizzical said:
     I see that there's an Xbox One version and a PS4 version coming, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to play those if it's as awkward as using a controller on the PC version--and without the option to grab a keyboard or mouse now and then when you really need to.


    There is already an Xbox One version of Path of Exile. Not clear on the PS4 version, but sounds like it'll be out this month. Don't have a PS myself, so can't really offer any further commentary on that.

    I know you were asking about controller usability in https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7411947#Comment_7411947. As I said in that thread: "While the movement is a bit more natural (in my opinion) on console, the inventory management is more of a pain." So, where you gain in the removal of click-to-move, you lose in other areas of usability.

    For me, the game was enjoyable using either (PC) kb+mouse or (console) controller, but that's really just a matter of personal taste and I can see where either would be a turn-off for other people. Sorry to hear it didn't click (no pun intended) for you, but glad a game you sound like you enjoy is back up today. :)
    This seems like an easily solvable problem.  If they have WASD movement on the Xbox One version, why not just add that to the PC version?  Then you could have the best of both worlds:  comfortable to play most of the game using a controller, and you can grab a mouse when you occasionally need it for inventory management.

    Is there some reason why the developers refuse to do this?  I've seen a number of threads where people asked for WASD movement and were told, stop asking, they're not going to do that.  But it would seem like telling lots of customers who weren't causing any trouble to just quit the game isn't a good way to make a profit.
  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,565
    Quizzical said:
    This seems like an easily solvable problem.  If they have WASD movement on the Xbox One version, why not just add that to the PC version?  Then you could have the best of both worlds:  comfortable to play most of the game using a controller, and you can grab a mouse when you occasionally need it for inventory management.

    Is there some reason why the developers refuse to do this?  I've seen a number of threads where people asked for WASD movement and were told, stop asking, they're not going to do that.  But it would seem like telling lots of customers who weren't causing any trouble to just quit the game isn't a good way to make a profit.
    I can't really answer for the developer. Only thing that comes to mind is that W, A, S, and D are already in use for other things in game (non-movement). So changing that would impact existing PC users. Beyond that, as a casual player, I can't think of a reason not to implement WASD movement. 

    I was just trying to speak to where the controller option shines (not PC) and hopefully I didn't come across as defending the lack of WASD option on PC. While the current PC controls are not a deal-breaker for me, I would likely enjoy it more with the WASD option (or at least, controller behavior that is comparable to console)

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,968
    mklinic said:
    Quizzical said:
    This seems like an easily solvable problem.  If they have WASD movement on the Xbox One version, why not just add that to the PC version?  Then you could have the best of both worlds:  comfortable to play most of the game using a controller, and you can grab a mouse when you occasionally need it for inventory management.

    Is there some reason why the developers refuse to do this?  I've seen a number of threads where people asked for WASD movement and were told, stop asking, they're not going to do that.  But it would seem like telling lots of customers who weren't causing any trouble to just quit the game isn't a good way to make a profit.
    I can't really answer for the developer. Only thing that comes to mind is that W, A, S, and D are already in use for other things in game (non-movement). So changing that would impact existing PC users. Beyond that, as a casual player, I can't think of a reason not to implement WASD movement. 

    I was just trying to speak to where the controller option shines (not PC) and hopefully I didn't come across as defending the lack of WASD option on PC. While the current PC controls are not a deal-breaker for me, I would likely enjoy it more with the WASD option (or at least, controller behavior that is comparable to console)
    Do you play the game on PC using a controller?  Or on Xbox One?  Or on PC using keyboard+mouse?  Or more than one of them?

    By WASD movement, I didn't mean it had to be those particular keys.  It could be home, hyphen, comma, and delete for all I care.  Just some four keys that can be remapped to the D-pad on a gamepad.
  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,565
    Quizzical said:
    Do you play the game on PC using a controller?  Or on Xbox One?  Or on PC using keyboard+mouse?  Or more than one of them?

    By WASD movement, I didn't mean it had to be those particular keys.  It could be home, hyphen, comma, and delete for all I care.  Just some four keys that can be remapped to the D-pad on a gamepad.
    I play on both PC with KB+mouse and XBox One with controller. I've never tried on PC with a controller.

    And yeah, I get your point about alternate keys. I was thinking too literally about "WASD."

    I was trying to think of other reasons to not implement this sort of thing and all I can come up with is that someone at GGG did a cost/benefit analysis and decided the effort wasn't worth it (at this time at least) when weighed against other priorities they may have. It's not a great answer, but seems like the simplest one.

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

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