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  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,336
    I'm not sure what this is about but... Yeah, rock on.
    TsiyaPhaserlight
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • BlueThunderBearBlueThunderBear Member UncommonPosts: 176
    edited January 30

    Robsolf said:

    I think the problem lies in the fact that some people are too self involved to understand: a reviewer can like or dislike a game more than the reader does, and that that can absolutely occur without any conspiratorial agenda.



    It should go without saying, but these days, it clearly doesn't.






    Welcome to -current year-. You either agree with my opinion or youre part of a conspiracy against me.
    TimEisenWhiteLanternSovrathbartoni33RobsolfFacelessSaviorLackingMMOinfomatzbrandedwolfRnjypsyand 1 other.
  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,271
    I feel like I must have missed the article from 2 weeks ago that this article refers to. Adding a link to it would be helpful.
    TimEisenAlomarThaharDhamon99ThupliwingoodinfomatzTsiya

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290

    Sovrath said:

    I'm confused. What didn't they like?



    Readers want us to be honest and report honestly and they just saw that, because we did that, we lost access to a game. Its unfortunate but they saw how some studios choose to pressure the press to only report the facts when they are fluffy and ignore them when they are not.
    bartoni33NycteliosGdemamiAethaeryninfomatz
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290
    I forgot to note, I included the screen shot of the top ten fan voted hyped up games to help dispel the myth that the users of this site hate inde games or, that this site is paid to shill for big publishers. If we were getting paid by the big guys for a fake hype meter or if the users had an agenda against crowd funded games, that top ten would look substantially different.
    bartoni33NycteliosGdemamiBlueThunderBearMadFrenchieThaharparrotpholkinfomatz
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,073
    edited January 30
    meddyck said:
    I feel like I must have missed the article from 2 weeks ago that this article refers to. Adding a link to it would be helpful.
    Here:

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/478804/new-caspien-tantrum-about-news-coverage/p1

    It's not an article made by people here. I believe all articles talking about the game got removed because of his whining.
    TorvalmeddyckinfomatzTsiyaDakeru

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 1,999
    TimEisen said:

    Sovrath said:

    I'm confused. What didn't they like?



    Readers want us to be honest and report honestly and they just saw that, because we did that, we lost access to a game. Its unfortunate but they saw how some studios choose to pressure the press to only report the facts when they are fluffy and ignore them when they are not.
    Huh. I just assumed that everyone knew that businesses prefer shiney-happy over doomy-gloomy.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483

    Bloodaxes said:

    This must have something to do with that developer who didn't like what people said about his game and won't cover news here any more.

    With that said, while I understand the notion of this story, there are times that it seems like it. The "issue" for me at least, is when opinions are clearly evident in the narrative despite the issues are real. I don't know about you, but when certain articles are written (Obviously not all types mainly talking about reviews or when addressing blatant issues widely known), and problems are glossed over simply because the writer enjoys the game it's not going to bode well.

    I've been on this site for years now, and I understand how it had to evolve to keep relevant since mmos are a dying breed (sadly). That however shouldn't affect the way reviews are conducted. They should be impartial, and your opinion should NOT be the main factor of the article.

    All I have to say. Take it however you like it.



    Ironically, the situation that created this article came from directly the opposite: Tim was fairly straightforward in criticizing the actions of a crowdfunded MMORPG company, and that's what resulted in company "taking their ball and going home" (yes, the company was literally as petty about it as that sounds).
    TimEisenBloodaxesEponyxDamorGdemamiMendelSaltyDog79infomatzbrandedwolfYashaX

    image
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    and here I was expecting some humor piece about how it was discovered that all the posters were jaded hate mongering rageholics.. or something along those lines... or maybe cats.. maybe we are all just cats at keyboards waiting for our humans to feed us so we are just being grumpy.
    NycteliosMadFrenchieManWithNoTan
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,482

    Bloodaxes said:

    This must have something to do with that developer who didn't like what people said about his game and won't cover news here any more.

    With that said, while I understand the notion of this story, there are times that it seems like it. The "issue" for me at least, is when opinions are clearly evident in the narrative despite the issues are real. I don't know about you, but when certain articles are written (Obviously not all types mainly talking about reviews or when addressing blatant issues widely known), and problems are glossed over simply because the writer enjoys the game it's not going to bode well.

    I've been on this site for years now, and I understand how it had to evolve to keep relevant since mmos are a dying breed (sadly). That however shouldn't affect the way reviews are conducted. They should be impartial, and your opinion should NOT be the main factor of the article.

    All I have to say. Take it however you like it.



    Ironically, the situation that created this article came from directly the opposite: Tim was fairly straightforward in criticizing the actions of a crowdfunded MMORPG company, and that's what resulted in company "taking their ball and going home" (yes, the company was literally as petty about it as that sounds).
    Ah, so that's what this was about. Chronicles of Elyria.

    No big loss there. This site is more relevant than that game will ever be.
    NycteliosEponyxDamorMadFrenchiebartoni33IlayaThaharMendelSaltyDog79parrotpholkHatefulland 5 others.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    casdegere said:
    So Tim, to sum up. You regurgitate what you, the writer learn from the developer first. I.E. facts about the game that you've been exposed to from the developers perspective (and we all know you can't control if these facts are true or not), THEN, give your opinion about these facts good or bad. I think what is at issue here is not this part so much. This is kind of the standard no?

    What appears to me anyway, to be at issue is a bit of pandering to the game developers when something really sounds like dog excrement. (And we do know why this occurs) Many of us come here to get the real skinny on upcoming games. We read your articles and to a degree, rely on your foreknowledge. To depart from this, to pander, may effect game hype and divert attention from other, more deserving games. I think you have the right to use 'loaded dice' if you feel you need to. Just don't expect everyone to be ok with it when you're caught. That said I still read the articles to get a sense of whats coming out and your impressions since 2004.
    The issue is that if a writer/columnist does say something about a game that doesn't align with what some players think, they want that columnist to be more vitreolic about the whole thing.

    They aren't looking for a discussion on the game but more of a torch and pitchfork affair. When they don't get torches & pitchforks they start yelling and screaming about scandal and conspiracy.

    It's like they don't know what to do with their anger so just blast it at the easiest target.

    I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who don't try to cover things up or who don't take bribes/sell indulgences.

    but if everything that a player disagrees with is automatically a conspiracy then there is no room for anything else. It's either the players' way or the highway.

    And that's not a reasonable or healthy way to deal with things.
    GdemamiAmatheMendel



  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,393
    edited January 30
    If I were choosing a child's car seat, and looking at reviews and articles about their relative merits, I would care deeply whether those reviews and articles were objective.

    But here, we are talking about video games. I personally believe this website is well done and unbiased, but even if their writing was somehow a slave to corporate overlords, I only put so much stock in reviews (by anyone) anyway.

    Besides that, I'm able to tell, usually, when someone is selling rather than telling me. I just made that up by the way, so I get royalties if you use it. :)

    Last but not least, ignore what Caspian says. And if I were you, I would take down every forum, picture, article, review - any and all reference to his POS game. Why give him free advertising when he is throwing that kind of shade?


    bartoni33Tsiya

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • StevenWeberStevenWeber Member UncommonPosts: 18
    As another writer here, it's true that in many cases we do have some biases. As with most people there are games that we like more, or genres that we have more experience with. That doesn't mean that we can't be impartial, nor does it mean that every game immediately gets a pass even if it happens to fall in our wheelhouse. That also isn't to say that we get enjoyment out of negative reviews, columns, or the perceived "hit pieces" when developers or their fans think that they have been wronged by our coverage.


    Often times we are pained by negative coverage and reviews. Nothing delights many of us more than finding a great game, or upcoming title that we can all get excited about. We are not rallying behind a studio in hopes that they fail. 


    Our community here is some of the most dedicated and passionate gamers out there. I feel like a developers' insistence that Tims opinion, and the communities reaction, however negative, is cause to pull future content opportunities, is a little pedantic.  I would have much rather have seen the developer reach out, address concerns, or in the least, show progress reports on how the game is progressing in lieu of an actual interview, rather than simply avoiding exclusive coverage altogether.  It almost feels like you have less faith in yourself if you don't believe in your game enough to stand up to scrutiny.


    I do hope the developer in question finds what they are looking for and gets the coverage they feel they deserve. 

     
    TorvalMadFrenchieGdemamiAmathebrandedwolf
  • Krynt0kKrynt0k Member UncommonPosts: 243
    Benn coming to this site since 2004 and will continue to
    SovrathPanther2103brandedwolfTsiyaDakeru
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,728
    I assume this is in reference to this:
    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7432354

    If that is the case, people aren't angry about what they saw. It's what they didn't see.
    This far into the game....
    (I wish that was more literal than figurative.....or is it the other way around?)
    There should be something to see......there isn't. So revoking access is like playing a rigged shell game. There is nothing to see but spinning shells.
    Gdemamiinfomatz
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Honestly, not entirely sure what the point of this article was. If its truly about the Chronicles of Elyria "debacle", I wouldn't worry too much about it. CoE's team is truly roleplaying developers (to use a phrase coined here); however, they mostly just resemble a Michael Cera-esque form of happenstance development. Furthermore, I would take Caspien as serious as I take a stubbed toe -- lots of hot air, moaning, and groaning, but in the end ... Not worth the time it takes to complain about.
    maskedweaselGdemami
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,857
    u cant please everyone , and i dont think there is a biased opinion on articles , but i think there is a over the top coverage for some games , Anthem atm is all the rage for example.
    Gdemami
  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 502
    edited January 30
    I come to the site because it focuses on news articles about the genre of games I am interested in. They have to make money to stay in business.

    I also come here for voices on the forums that I have seen over the years....DMKano, Kyleran, etc

    June 2007.... man... almost 12 years
    AmatheTsiya
  • Pher0ciousPher0cious Member RarePosts: 241
    Stop posting phone apps!
    infomatzMr.Gutsy
    ('''\( ',.:.,' )/''')
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    I can only assume this is about the COE article that Caspian reacted poorly to and if it is then Tim has nothing to apologize for or explain further.

    Always liked the site and the reporting here even though I have disagreed with several articles in the last 14 or so years. The 7/10 score for FO76 is one I can think of where I was like WTF.

    Thanks to all the work you guys put into the site.
    maskedweaselAmathebartoni33ThanosxpEponyxDamorTsiya
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    edited January 30
    I assume this is in reference to this:
    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7432354

    If that is the case, people aren't angry about what they saw. It's what they didn't see.
    This far into the game....
    (I wish that was more literal than figurative.....or is it the other way around?)
    There should be something to see......there isn't. So revoking access is like playing a rigged shell game. There is nothing to see but spinning shells.
    If this is the article then "yeah" Caspian needs to grow up. He engaged the community as a petulant teen.

    If he wants respect, if he wants his game to be respected, he needs to "show not tell" and he needs to act like a leader, not just call himself a leader.

    He needs to show results, not just tell people that things are "a-ok."

    I think we've seen enough of that over the years with crowdfunded projects. then suddenly the heart felt letter saying something like:

    "... we really wanted to make a great game, not only for ourselves but also our backers, our community. In our efforts to do just that we lost site of our initial goals and unfortunately bit off more than we could chew. It is with huge sadness we announce that development is stopping.

    this is temporary! We are dedicated to giving our backers blah blah blah ..."



    Then in a month they announce it's stopping but they will somehow find a way to pay backers "back" and then they just vanish into the world wide web ...
    bartoni33parrotpholkThaharinfomatz



  • ComputerJuiceComputerJuice Member UncommonPosts: 23
    Tim? Who is Tim? I only read the site from my desktop and every single article on the feed is from suzie.

    The hardware reviews here are are rubbish but the game reviews (except for the fallout 76 fanboy ones) seem pretty fair although often seem to lack the depth of articles found other sites.

    Basically, I come here daily to get the quck synopsis before moving outward for more in-depth analysis...

    This specific article reeks of butt-hurt-ary, but again I don't know who "Tim" is or why S. Ford is letting him cloud up her news reel.

    brandedwolf
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,393
    Tim? Who is Tim? I only read the site from my desktop and every single article on the feed is from suzie.
    Suzie posts many articles written by other staff members. But at the top of the articles it has the writer's name.
    brandedwolf

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,553
    I come here because i like the layout and they update it regularly about games. By regularly i mean multiple times a day.

    Also, Tim, you didnt need to explain yourself, it was clear how you function.

    bartoni33maskedweaselOctagon7711SovrathAmatheThaharinfomatzTsiya
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,782
    This site has been very helpful in helping me decide which games to play and in offering tips on how to play some of those games, for this I am very grateful. Thanks everyone. :)
    parrotpholkAmatheimmoralthangGdemamiVinterkriginfomatz

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

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