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Millions never had the chance for first generation.

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  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 987
    Wizardry said:
    Well it was done again 4 years later by FFXI and imo much better than EQ1.
    Reason it got left behind was WOW,the massive influx of new online gamer didn't know anything about the EQ1/FFXI design,they knew Warcraft,battle.net,Diablo,so they quickly knew and wanted to play WOW.

    For some like myself,idc what a developer did before or that i might like one of their games,i simply look for a type of game design that i will enjoy.Problem is we no longer got CHOICE because all the new upstart developers saw how much fast money Wow was making and jumped all over that bandwagon with clone after clone after clone.

    We still see the same bandwagon jumping,Farmville,then tons of Farmville copy cats,Mobas then tons of mobas,HS hits mainstream,tons of TCG's,Battle Royale's,tons more to follow.

    All these new devs have ZERO confidence,so they aim for a game design that is proving to be popular.Problem with their bandwagon jumping is that there is only enough room for a few at the top,the rest won't make it.


    Point being?Be a LEADER in game design,be creative,quit being a follower/copycat game designer.


    Most games weren't WoW clones.  Cloning WoW means you get another WoW, and we didn't get that.  What we got were games that used design elements that WoW targeted to cater to a mass audience, but weren't able to capture a large player base.  Most games that died out died due to them being buggy messes, bad performance, almost no story investment, etc.

    WoW's solo'ish quest-based leveling system wasn't and isn't a bad thing.  Grinding mobs for 6 hours a day was bad.  At some point, games have to relegate themselves to being forms of entertainment, and not time investments on the same level of full time jobs.

    At some point, MMORPG communities have to relegate to being strangers on line, and people need to put more stock in real-life social activities.  This means getting off the PC and going out with friends, or having dinner withi family, etc.

    Games like EQ weren't healthy, which is why it was called EverCrack.  The game garnered a bad reputation due to bad PR stemming from the way it forced players to live at their PCs, and as a result no one wanted to be associated with that - except Korean game developers.

    Blizzard allowed players to be involved in an MMORPG community without devoting a third of their lives to it.  It was the best thing that happened to this genre; and it's the reason why the genre got as bit as it did.  Otherwises, we never would have seen the mountain of MMORPG game failures we have seen over the years.

    Most games died not because of cloning WoW, but because they were badly developed, badly marketed, and simply not good games.

    Vanguard was good only insofar as it was the "spiritual successor to EQ," and many of us were just coming off of EQ back then - so that type of gameplay was quite comfortable to us.  Outside of that, it was awful.  The engine was awful.  It had hilariously high system requirements (even more so than EQ2, which was AWFUL in that regard).  It didn't even look that good.  It was beyond buggy.

    Games like Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, etc. were not "WoW clones," yet they still either died out, or practically died from the standpoint of maintaining a large enough player community for the game to function "as intended."

    And I'd like to add, many people on this vry forum had a front row seat to allowing WoW to grow to epic size and control the industry.  They are now popping up with the "It was great until Wrath" B.S. excuse to allow themselves to trash it while acting like it was Satan to MMORPG gaming...  Doesn't really work that way.

    If people were more willing to stick with other games and allow them to develop more, perhaps the market would be different, these days...  But we all know that 2006-2009 was the age of "If it ain't clicking by the time the free 30 days is up... leave it."

    Being fickle has its price.
    SovrathWenchesnmeadcraftseeker
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    MendelWenchesnmeadhallucigenocide
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,769
    edited January 5
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    I'll be honest, I agree.... BUT Pantheon has a chance to be popular with a large player base that has the possibility to grow.  EQ1 is so old, it has the possibility to be new again.

    #1 It has to launch as a full game.  Look at the same old disaster as always with ATLAS, it's a P.O.S. 
    #2 It has to be near bug free. Very worried about this.   
    #3 Some commercial advertisement needs to be done along with word-of-mouth. 



    As far as questioning a young family member, that's always a good thing to "ask a kid" they know the fad's..... But kids and fad's deal in realtime…. Realtime mmorpg's SUCK and have SUCKED for over 10 years now.  

    Sure they would say mmo !, whats that ?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,448
    edited January 6
    IDk if it matters at all,i see a different mindset in gamer's since the turn of the century.

    I see a lot of gaming that is like chickens running around with their heads cut off,like ADD gaming.Me i thinks it is horrible game play but to the young kids,they like it hyper fast,like i said like ADD gaming.
    I was just watching some twitch streams and the players were literally run shoot die run shoot die,there was no mind or reason just keep shooting and keep dying.

    The same goes for rpg's,i remember players wanting run around exploring,NOW....MUST level as fast as possible,MUST get best gear,ask chat "what is best dps at end game?".World firsts,ME ME ME.

    So even if they played old school games,whatever that means,they would still think the same and seek out games similar to what is popular now.

    I am not even sure if more than 1% of young gamer's know who Fatality is,you know the guy who put $$$ out of games on the map.When i watch Hearthstone EVERY single stream people ask "what is the deck code"where can i get this deck!!.You think playing a certain deck makes you a better player,well apparently they don't get it.

    So just like the new generation of gaming,people have changed as well and why we see these new type of games that old school look at and think wtf is this crap.
    LokeroMylan12

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,513

    Man, I know just what you mean.  I tried to watch that Overwatch World Cup they had on TV, just to see what the game was like since I hadn't played it.  It was literally just people bunny-hopping non-stop all over the place the entire time.
    It felt more like watching a kangaroo documentary than a video game.

    Wizardry said:

    When i watch Hearthstone EVERY single stream people ask "what is the deck code"where can i get this deck!!.You think playing a certain deck makes you a better player,well apparently they don't get it.
    Well, this is true of pretty much any professional showing their skills, etc.  If you go watch a drawing tutorial, for example, half the comments will be asking "what kind of pencil do you use?"
    Everyone wants to do what the veteran is doing, but they don't grasp that those guys put in time to learn and develop a skill.  Nobody has the attention span to want to do that part.
  • asteldiancaliskanasteldiancaliskan Member UncommonPosts: 58
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    It's true a mass exodus would be an issue for a niche game, but on the other hand a niche game is exactly that because it caters to a specific market - a market others ignore. Where would these players go? There may be lots of games around, but to these players they are shit. Most would sooner hang around without content and do stuff with the friends they have made (maybe make alts or help newbies) than bounce from crappy game to game like they have had to do for the last decade
    Sovrathtweedledumb99delete5230MrMelGibson
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,271
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    It's true a mass exodus would be an issue for a niche game, but on the other hand a niche game is exactly that because it caters to a specific market - a market others ignore. Where would these players go? There may be lots of games around, but to these players they are shit. Most would sooner hang around without content and do stuff with the friends they have made (maybe make alts or help newbies) than bounce from crappy game to game like they have had to do for the last decade
    By this logic, EQ1 would have a lot more population than they do and Daybreak would love you forever.



    WenchesnmeadMrMelGibson

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • summerstringssummerstrings Member UncommonPosts: 73
    I only ever tried one mmo prior to World of Warcraft , it was the Ultima Online two week trial but I was on dial up in 2001 which I shared with my girlfriend of the time ( who also wanted to use it for other things ) and that had a two hour cut off before you had to redial . I quite enjoyed what I saw of it but my PC was such a toaster by that time having been brought in 1997 that it really struggled to run it . So I really didn't get much of a chance to view the first generation of mmos . 

    What I have heard from friends about them is that they offered a depth of gameplay you just don't see in modern triple A titles and given I am bored with games that offer a lack of challenge and depth I am very interested in the likes of Pantheon which is one of the games that seem to be endeavoring to offer an old school experience . I think possibly the closest I got to it was vanilla WoW which was a game that felt far more like a living breathing virtual world than the current version but from what I have heard,  I doubt even that was anything like the real old school experience . 

    It is why I decided to buy Project Gorgon in the winter sale on steam  , I am hoping to jump into that in the next week or two once I have got my lotro character to 50 on the progression servers . At least I can get to play that now , I think it is going to be a two to three year wait for Pantheon . 
  • asteldiancaliskanasteldiancaliskan Member UncommonPosts: 58
    Mendel said:
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    It's true a mass exodus would be an issue for a niche game, but on the other hand a niche game is exactly that because it caters to a specific market - a market others ignore. Where would these players go? There may be lots of games around, but to these players they are shit. Most would sooner hang around without content and do stuff with the friends they have made (maybe make alts or help newbies) than bounce from crappy game to game like they have had to do for the last decade
    By this logic, EQ1 would have a lot more population than they do and Daybreak would love you forever.



    Well I cannot speak for others, but myself and the friends I had certainly never left due to lack of content. We left because after so many years the game was aged and it's game play was changing for the worse - so it was a good time to leave and try other games as at least back then games being made were more that just shallow cash shop crap. It was no mass exodus from eq1, more a bleed, though to be fair, with big game names like Wow and EQ2 coming out, it was inevitable a population drop would happen- based on the lack of AAA games being produced these days, that is unlikely to be an issue
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 136
    1st Gen MMORPGs also had the benefit of being... well, first to the scene. I often feel the fondness of people's memories come from this idea and now that technology and methods have improved quality of life for the better in a lot of areas, these MMO's can't thrive nearly as well since choice is there.

    Do you go back to a time where things were less flexible? Do you choose to make things more arduous? I suppose there are players out there that thrive in these kinds of environments, but judging by the current state of affairs in gaming, they are a minority.

    I'm of the opinion people don't know what they want, but think this is it. Once they get in, they'll lose interest and leave the niche players to it.
    MendelMrMelGibson
  • herculeshercules Member UncommonPosts: 4,919
    edited January 9
    There was much more flaws and bigger ones then the UI and AI
    Remember back then EQ UI and graphics was cutting edge
    I was there at the start and let me say this  most could not get into a raid or kill the dragons we all had about
    Heck most could not even get to the hard areas of certain dungeons
    It meant  loads of time and loads of commitment
    Wow Changed that and for all the rubbish thrown at it ,that was the main reason it exploded the market
    Also WoW did not start with the 10 million subs  ,it got that after changing the way  raids are done  and making difficulty level based on your time  and style .
    Look at wildstar which had interesting raids  (for those who played it) and it  flopped.why ?It made raids  quite hard  rather then diffculty levels
    I think if you want millions there a lot to change  rather then a modernized graphics 1999 EQ.
    I still recall my guild in 2000 talking about moving from EQ but the options were limited  back then.
    WoW came out and it did and most of my guild migrated there
    On a side note pantheon does not need millions or even 100k  to be profitable
  • asteldiancaliskanasteldiancaliskan Member UncommonPosts: 58
    Worth keeping in mind Wildstar raids were the least of its problems - they promoted a game for those that wanted challenge then offered the same tedious easy quest hub lvling style followed by irritating attunement requirements. They took the worst aspects of mmos. As a result most it's population were sick of the game long before they reached the raids that were supposed to be great.

    Pantheon faces a similar risk, if they take all the worst aspects of EQ1 to try make a challenging, Social game then people will not want to play. Knowing the player type they want to attract is great, they just need to think carefully on how they grab them, because despite what some think, a carbon copy of EQ1 won't do it 
    MrMelGibson
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    This mmo will be as highly successful as a remastered Windows 95 would be. Will it launch? Maybe, but if it does in what state? They only get one chance, and I doubt they will have the funds to stay afloat if the game isn't polished at launch. Those few on these forum's who think it will take off and be a massive sucess are either very naive or under the impression that their view is ubiquitous among gamers. The truth is that traditional mmos are dead. That is easily proven by the lack of any reputable studio developing new mmos. 

    I spoke with my niece recently about mmos. She didn't even know what they were lol. She is 12. She definitely knows what roblox and fortnite is. Pantheon isn't going to change this. It will have to rely on the older gamers. Which most won't have the time to invest into an MMO like they did in their youth playing EQ1 etc.

    I've said it before, the only way an MMO will be a huge success again is something revolutionary that hasn't been seen before. This game will be niche at best. And with a niche player base, when content gets consumed. The typical gamer will play something else till more content releases. After all there are more game options out there than time to play them all. Will a niche mmo survive an exodus like that? We are not in the early 2000s anymore. Back then people stayed with their mmos because they didn't have many options to migrate to in between content patches.

    I have no animosity towards this game or it's fans. I just honestly believe they should temper their expectations. 
    It's true a mass exodus would be an issue for a niche game, but on the other hand a niche game is exactly that because it caters to a specific market - a market others ignore. Where would these players go? There may be lots of games around, but to these players they are shit. Most would sooner hang around without content and do stuff with the friends they have made (maybe make alts or help newbies) than bounce from crappy game to game like they have had to do for the last decade
    @asteldiancaliskan fair enough. But one thing I think you are overlooking is that gamers have evolved. Back in the day this was very true. Today majority of gamers play more than one game. Everything from multiplayer games, to open world single player games. The options are rather endless. So while I agree they will most likely stick to their mmo of choice. That doesn't necessarily mean they won't bounce around between different genres or from PC gaming to console gaming etc. Gone are the days of playing one game for years(maybe a small minority). That's where the health of a cash shop free, subscription MMO might run into trouble. It's something I hope VR is taking into consideration. 
    Kyleran
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,269
    Wizardry said:
    So common sense tells us that if you were to use say a buff of Protection 5 million times,you would or SHOULD be quite skilled at doing that,so your skill level should show that.You wouldn't become more proficient at casting protection by running 1500 fetch me errands in which time you may have never cast protection even once.
    Thats what TES does, and thats why TES sucks BIG TIME and why I simply level my character per console to maxlevel in TES games now, so I dont have to bother with that absurd PITA of a rulesystem anymore.

    Realism doesnt matter. Hitpoints aint realistic, for example. Classes arent realistic. Etc. Who cares ?

    A game has to work as a game. Realism isnt part of that formula.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,636
    edited January 18
    Something very important you are missing is the type of people that played these games then vs. now. When EQ launched the only people playing it were RPG nerds who did tabletop RPGs before the internet came around. They already had a lot in common in terms of specific games they played, books they read, music they listened to, etc. Most likely they all had very similar demographics, upbringings, and values as well.

    Today everyone from toddlers to the elderly play these games from every demographic and walks of life. The connections are much much more difficult to make for most players, especially for the very first demographic, imo.

    Even if this game can attract large portions of those old-schoolers back, its too late. They are old now. They have families. Their values have changed. Years of games and dealing with a more and more all-encompassing community that swallowed up what was once a very tailored experience has jaded most of them beyond repair, imo. So, the game might be cool, but recapturing that time and essence will only come about with some new revelation in tech or society such as virtual reality or the discovery of sentient alien life, imo.
    MendelMrMelGibsonArglebargle

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,269

    Darksworm said:

    Vanguard was good only insofar as it was the "spiritual successor to EQ," and many of us were just coming off of EQ back then - so that type of gameplay was quite comfortable to us.  Outside of that, it was awful.  The engine was awful.  It had hilariously high system requirements (even more so than EQ2, which was AWFUL in that regard).  It didn't even look that good.  It was beyond buggy.
    It was all that but it also was absolutely awesome to play. It had a huge gameworld to explore, with an extreme amount of quests, well done crafting and extreme fun gameplay, including the most well design combat system, and very challenging raids, many of which I didnt manage in the seven years the game was up, and a diplomacy system that I personally didnt liked too much (I hate card games with a passion) but which opened a lot of lore.

    I would instantly play it again if someone would restart it.

    And yes the graphics requirements should have been lower. That was a main error of the game design.
    delete5230Palebane
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Game needs the following to be successful IMO.

    - Difficult solo play like EQ but it can be done if you are really stuck for a group or just anti social ( wrong game for you )

    - Harsh death penalty’s, dying is an adventure in itself , corpse runs , xp loss . One change I would make is instead of corpse disappearing after week and losing gear , make corpse disappear and give your gear back to you. 

    - Super slow leveling,  the adventure is not rushing to end game . Take weeks to level not hours. Bring back the mini dings.

    - Travel was hard , require keys , passes, faction etc to earn your way into new content .

    - Gear that is bind on equip. Twinks are fun but I prefer to find gear not buy it with Real money from gold seller and trading . I think alot of people will hate this because trading was a big thing in EQ.

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,852
    One of the reasons why I backed the game at the Alpha lvl... Always wanted to play a true old school MMO and never got the chance. Excited to try it out after all of these years
    delete5230
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited January 28
    AC was my first MMO. I tried other older ones shortly after that one came out to see what the genre had to offer, but I honestly felt like it had the most "advanced" mechanics of it's time. Subsequent titles that more closely reflected the EQ style of play felt like they'd stepped away from progress for me in several large ways, while only really evolving the formula for a narrow band of what MMOs were or could be. 

    WoW was such a title. Rather than broadening the genre, it felt like it'd sought out and abandoned the more unique portions like, the "live" ecosystems, physics elements, or other aspects that made some games like AC have gameplay ahead of it's time. It's taken from then in the late 90s up until the latter half of this decade to even consider games like that one, made ~20 years ago, to be viable to produce on modern hardware.

    And yes there were drawbacks, like distribution of mobs and content in order to balance the computational load of mapping different target regions on a body and having all arrows and projectiles be real-time projectiles you could react to.

    I bring this up largely because "Pantheon doesn't represent this facet of the genre's history." for me as a once-consumer of these old titles. It does help bring part of the past into the modern age, but it ironically leans on much the same side as the rest that became the "mainstream" of the genre.

    Which, for me, leaves several longstanding niches and elements of the genre yet unfilled or revisited.
    PalebaneMendel
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Grailer said:

    - Harsh death penalty’s, dying is an adventure in itself , corpse runs , xp loss . One change I would make is instead of corpse disappearing after week and losing gear , make corpse disappear and give your gear back to you. 

    Why even bother trying to get your corpse back at all? Just go play an alt until the week is up.

    If you want a harsh death penalty, XP/gear loss is the way to go.

    If you die, you lose a percentage of XP, gear loses durability, if it hits zero you lose that piece of gear, and you gain a death penalty debuff.

    Die again while having the debuff, you lose a higher percentage of XP/durability.

    Lose enough XP you delevel, lose enough durability you lose all your gear.
    ArteriusWenchesnmead
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,774
    edited January 28

    This is one of the first race cars. It went an incredible 35 mph! Have you seen Indy cars lately? 

    Just like watching one of these old races, old game play is too to slow to hold the attention of today’s gamers. 

    For better or for worse the genre has moved on.

    Mendel
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,769
    bcbully said:

    This is one of the first race cars. It went an incredible 35 mph! Have you seen Indy cars lately? 

    Just like watching one of these old races, old game play is too to slow to hold the attention of today’s gamers. 

    For better or for worse the genre has moved on.

    Great example of what is wrong with the "assumed" definition of Old School. 

    People automatically thinking stick figure 3D, awful drop down menus and slash everything for chat and guild members.

    It's 2019... Why would anyone be hung up in 1999 ?
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,769
    mmolou said:
    Grailer said:

    - Harsh death penalty’s, dying is an adventure in itself , corpse runs , xp loss . One change I would make is instead of corpse disappearing after week and losing gear , make corpse disappear and give your gear back to you. 

    Why even bother trying to get your corpse back at all? Just go play an alt until the week is up.

    If you want a harsh death penalty, XP/gear loss is the way to go.

    If you die, you lose a percentage of XP, gear loses durability, if it hits zero you lose that piece of gear, and you gain a death penalty debuff.

    Die again while having the debuff, you lose a higher percentage of XP/durability.

    Lose enough XP you delevel, lose enough durability you lose all your gear.
    Both seem good options.

    I believe in harsh death penalty.  I really never sat down and gave it a lot of thought, mainly because my opinion wouldn't count anyway.

    I would like it so the group doesn't suffer waiting for someone to show back up.  This causes a lot of arguing !...... Theirs always a hot head in a group. 

    A successful mmorpg should be good for pick-up-groups. 
    90% of players will not have that "Good Guild".
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,913
    edited January 28
    delete5230 said:its
    mmolou said:
    Grailer said:

    - Harsh death penalty’s, dying is an adventure in itself , corpse runs , xp loss . One change I would make is instead of corpse disappearing after week and losing gear , make corpse disappear and give your gear back to you. 

    Why even bother trying to get your corpse back at all? Just go play an alt until the week is up.

    If you want a harsh death penalty, XP/gear loss is the way to go.

    If you die, you lose a percentage of XP, gear loses durability, if it hits zero you lose that piece of gear, and you gain a death penalty debuff.

    Die again while having the debuff, you lose a higher percentage of XP/durability.

    Lose enough XP you delevel, lose enough durability you lose all your gear.
    Both seem good options.

    I believe in harsh death penalty.  I really never sat down and gave it a lot of thought, mainly because my opinion wouldn't count anyway.

    I would like it so the group doesn't suffer waiting for someone to show back up.  This causes a lot of arguing !...... Theirs always a hot head in a group. 

    A successful mmorpg should be good for pick-up-groups. 
    90% of players will not have that "Good Guild".
    It's fine if the content is challenging, but the logistics of forming a group or raid, finding or keeping the slots filled, and recovery afterwards shouldn't be unnecessarily tedious  or it will alienate many.

    Will be a fine line to walk for Pantheon to maintain, and I do believe Brad learned the lessons of Vanguard all too well.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,636
    edited January 28
    mmolou said:
    Grailer said:

    - Harsh death penalty’s, dying is an adventure in itself , corpse runs , xp loss . One change I would make is instead of corpse disappearing after week and losing gear , make corpse disappear and give your gear back to you. 

    Why even bother trying to get your corpse back at all? Just go play an alt until the week is up.

    If you want a harsh death penalty, XP/gear loss is the way to go.

    If you die, you lose a percentage of XP, gear loses durability, if it hits zero you lose that piece of gear, and you gain a death penalty debuff.

    Die again while having the debuff, you lose a higher percentage of XP/durability.

    Lose enough XP you delevel, lose enough durability you lose all your gear.
    Die five times wo retrieving your first corpse and the game uninstalls itself. I’m all for consequence, but loss of xp and currency is enough of a deterrent for me. I would never spend more than 15 min on a corpse run these days unless the game had some very cool ghost mechanics.
    Kyleran

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

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