I have a bridge for sale. It's in a great location... right between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Interested?
I mean you can just go read the patch notes if you're going to be an ass. They already are balancing the individual skills from the BR each test lol... They already released a full mechanic overview of the castle siege mode and based on recent trends will be providing patch notes for siege balancing changes as well. It's not rocket science to see that balancing their classes in this game mode benefits their classes in the long run and is one of their main focuses. Especially when it's listed as one of their god damn testing objective:
During this weekend’s test, we’ll be gathering data on the following:
Login registration flow
Download flow
Connection to matches
Performance of the servers
Combat balance And testing our Solo and Squad Battle Royale Game Modes
Source: https://ashesofcreation.com/blog/open-beta-weekend-for-ashes-of-creation-apocalypse
Dev's have said over and over again that this mode is to help them refine combat and server infrastructure. Burden of proof is on you guys to prove that the MMO game is no longer being developed, and that they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO and waste their time. Logically speaking, your argument that Intrepid would want to double their work load makes no sense.
They are TELLING you what you want to hear in order to JUSTIFY making a STAND ALONE Battle Royale game.
I never said the MMO was not being developed. I said creating a STAND ALONE Battle Royale game is a dumbass way to test for an MMORPG. You yourself mentioned the "hybrid" combat system for the MMO. You yourself then said it's on us to prove that "they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO". You did it yourself. The MMO will have a DIFFERENT combat system.
You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
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They are TELLING you what you want to hear in order to JUSTIFY making a STAND ALONE Battle Royale game.
I never said the MMO was not being developed. I said creating a STAND ALONE Battle Royale game is a dumbass way to test for an MMORPG. You yourself mentioned the "hybrid" combat system for the MMO. You yourself then said it's on us to prove that "they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO". You did it yourself. The MMO will have a DIFFERENT combat system.
You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
[mod edit]
As stated before which you may have missed:
You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
Post edited by Vaross on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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From the beginning they have stated they want a hybrid system. To create a hybrid system, you need to create and test action skills, and create and test tab skills. Once you have those balanced, you can combine them into a final product. Are you seriously of the belief that by them working on the action side of their hybrid system they are working on a new system? Do you genuinely think they are going to flush money down the toilet and not use any of these skills for the MMO? I mean there literally is footage of these skills already in a rough tab target state in the MMO. They're not creating a new combat system once the BR is done, they are creating the MMO combat system right now with the data they collect from the BR.
So with that in mind, let's get back to your first point: creating a battleground standalone game (not just a BR, don't forget castle sieges and horde mode) is a dumb way to collect information for their action combat skills. If they released a grey box battleground where 100 people spawned on the ground, picked up items with abilities and whacked each other to measure things like hit boxes, damage output, server frame rates and so on would you think that information was only useful for a battleground mode like the one the devs have you testing in? Of course not, that's not how game development works.
Seriously, stop being so pedantic if you're not actually educated in what you're lecturing about. If it helps the game (and from what we're seeing in terms of far less people now complaining about their combat) who actually cares. If you're mad that developers release a free game on top of continuing to work on a more expensive game, reevaluate your life.
I believe this developer like most these days is full of crap.They were building a mmorpg NOT a BR game.
When you decide you want to test your rpg you simply say "we want to test the combat"you DON'T say we want to test BR lol.
Pvp is dumb anyhow,sure it might be a good gimmick to support a cash shop but serious rpg players won't be playing any BR or cash shop game.
Epic games id the exact same thing,Fortnite was suppose to be a rpg,wasn't making the kind of money they wanted to see so they copied one of their customers "PubG team" and went that route for FN.
I sure hope that finally all the nay sayers realize these developers have NO PASSION for game design,all they care about is money and the business.When a developer comes along with passion for the game they are delivering,you will know,it will simply look great and not be full of gimmicks.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I just need to say that we need to remember why Steven made the BR mode a standalone product.
The initial BR was made as a bonus testing stage. It was to test out the combat. Not only was the initial BR a bonus, but everyone with any account was going to be eventually invited to play it and get their hands on it. This announcement was very exciting for a lot of people. The streaming of the BR test, which everyone in the know was very happy with, caused people that weren't really following the game to think that it was now a BR. Confusion continued to spread and Intrepid Studios did its very best to combat all of the misinformation that was going around. In a last ditch effort, Steven decided that it would be best to separate out the bonus testing from the AOC IP, making it its own thing. This would no longer associate it with the MMORPG. To accomplish this, they had to make it a fully viable standalone product that could support itself.
You guys may be calling Fortnite and all of that, but you need to remember what got us into this situation.
What about all of the focus on the BR development? They aren't focusing on the MMORPG now? Is the MMORPG project going to be derailed and canceled?
So.... one of the cool things is that all of this network infrastructure stuff that they are doing... well, this is work they would have had to do either way. They are doing it now rather than later. They have to do it now because of the point that if they are splitting off their bonus testing from the AoC IP and making it a standalone product, Steven wants to make sure that it's a success and that it can support itself. It's not lost work, it's just a bit out of order from their initial plans.
Now on to the other point. Why did they do a BR in the first place to test their mechanics? What about horde and siege? Why do this stuff? Well, we need to go back to Jeff's original goal. He wanted to get the playerbase involved in testing. He was part of the EQ Next team and they followed a philosophy that traditional testing was boring and that nobody would sign up for it willingly. So, what did they do? They saw BR was pretty popular and figured that could get people motivated to playtest the stuff they needed tested and provide them with data. Why siege/horde? Well, siege/horde are actually parts of the MMORPG. Siege mode is going to be the testing ground for the actual MMORPG sieges and horde mode is going to be the testing ground for monster tokens.
Of course we can argue that maybe they should have gone with arenas, like 1v1 and 3v3, over BR. Either would have been simple to do. They just figured that people would enjoy BR more than an arena given the gaming landscape, so that's what they went with. Trying to appeal to us, the gaming community, and get us excited to test their combat.
I just need to say that we need to remember why Steven made the BR mode a standalone product.
The initial BR was made as a bonus testing stage. It was to test out the combat. Not only was the initial BR a bonus, but everyone with any account was going to be eventually invited to play it and get their hands on it. This announcement was very exciting for a lot of people. The streaming of the BR test, which everyone in the know was very happy with, caused people that weren't really following the game to think that it was now a BR. Confusion continued to spread and Intrepid Studios did its very best to combat all of the misinformation that was going around. In a last ditch effort, Steven decided that it would be best to separate out the bonus testing from the AOC IP, making it its own thing. This would no longer associate it with the MMORPG. To accomplish this, they had to make it a fully viable standalone product that could support itself.
You guys may be calling Fortnite and all of that, but you need to remember what got us into this situation.
What about all of the focus on the BR development? They aren't focusing on the MMORPG now? Is the MMORPG project going to be derailed and canceled?
So.... one of the cool things is that all of this network infrastructure stuff that they are doing... well, this is work they would have had to do either way. They are doing it now rather than later. They have to do it now because of the point that if they are splitting off their bonus testing from the AoC IP and making it a standalone product, Steven wants to make sure that it's a success and that it can support itself. It's not lost work, it's just a bit out of order from their initial plans.
Now on to the other point. Why did they do a BR in the first place to test their mechanics? What about horde and siege? Why do this stuff? Well, we need to go back to Jeff's original goal. He wanted to get the playerbase involved in testing. He was part of the EQ Next team and they followed a philosophy that traditional testing was boring and that nobody would sign up for it willingly. So, what did they do? They saw BR was pretty popular and figured that could get people motivated to playtest the stuff they needed tested and provide them with data. Why siege/horde? Well, siege/horde are actually parts of the MMORPG. Siege mode is going to be the testing ground for the actual MMORPG sieges and horde mode is going to be the testing ground for monster tokens.
Of course we can argue that maybe they should have gone with arenas, like 1v1 and 3v3, over BR. Either would have been simple to do. They just figured that people would enjoy BR more than an arena given the gaming landscape, so that's what they went with. Trying to appeal to us, the gaming community, and get us excited to test their combat.
Interesting point re: testing being fun and different to get ppl in, and to do that early on.
I hope that's what's going on and not an H1Z1 situation.
I just need to say that we need to remember why Steven made the BR mode a standalone product.
The initial BR was made as a bonus testing stage. It was to test out the combat. Not only was the initial BR a bonus, but everyone with any account was going to be eventually invited to play it and get their hands on it. This announcement was very exciting for a lot of people. The streaming of the BR test, which everyone in the know was very happy with, caused people that weren't really following the game to think that it was now a BR. Confusion continued to spread and Intrepid Studios did its very best to combat all of the misinformation that was going around. In a last ditch effort, Steven decided that it would be best to separate out the bonus testing from the AOC IP, making it its own thing. This would no longer associate it with the MMORPG. To accomplish this, they had to make it a fully viable standalone product that could support itself.
You guys may be calling Fortnite and all of that, but you need to remember what got us into this situation.
What about all of the focus on the BR development? They aren't focusing on the MMORPG now? Is the MMORPG project going to be derailed and canceled?
So.... one of the cool things is that all of this network infrastructure stuff that they are doing... well, this is work they would have had to do either way. They are doing it now rather than later. They have to do it now because of the point that if they are splitting off their bonus testing from the AoC IP and making it a standalone product, Steven wants to make sure that it's a success and that it can support itself. It's not lost work, it's just a bit out of order from their initial plans.
Now on to the other point. Why did they do a BR in the first place to test their mechanics? What about horde and siege? Why do this stuff? Well, we need to go back to Jeff's original goal. He wanted to get the playerbase involved in testing. He was part of the EQ Next team and they followed a philosophy that traditional testing was boring and that nobody would sign up for it willingly. So, what did they do? They saw BR was pretty popular and figured that could get people motivated to playtest the stuff they needed tested and provide them with data. Why siege/horde? Well, siege/horde are actually parts of the MMORPG. Siege mode is going to be the testing ground for the actual MMORPG sieges and horde mode is going to be the testing ground for monster tokens.
Of course we can argue that maybe they should have gone with arenas, like 1v1 and 3v3, over BR. Either would have been simple to do. They just figured that people would enjoy BR more than an arena given the gaming landscape, so that's what they went with. Trying to appeal to us, the gaming community, and get us excited to test their combat.
Interesting point re: testing being fun and different to get ppl in, and to do that early on.
I hope that's what's going on and not an H1Z1 situation.
That's precisely what Jeff said when they announced their format for Alpha 0 testing. Jeff was from the EQ Next team and they had the exact same style of testing there as well. There was never any inclination that they ever even wanted to focus on the BR. During the stream when they announced apoc, Steven stated that he made that decision because of how toxic everywhere was when the BR was still part attached to the AoC IP.
Gotta watch the streams man. All of this has been said in the past. Only reason we have apoc is because of all of this toxicity and Steven trying to combat it.
Spreading a bunch of misinformation just makes things harder for Intrepid Studios. They had one stream where they talked about the MMORPG community being a wounded animal that would bite anyone that tried to help it. They called these reactions a year ago.
They're doing the best they can to be as transparent as possible, keeping everyone properly informed, and trying to combat misinformation. Let's try to make their jobs just a little bit easier by trying to not be part of the problem : ).
Of course, everyone's totally open to criticism, just not when it's rooted in hearsay = P.
Now what's really cool is how much the siege and horde formats are going to directly impact the MMORPG itself. The BR tested combat. The siege tests siege battles. The horde mode tests monster tokens : ). We're going to be getting to play with some of the features that will be in the MMORPG =D.
That's precisely what Jeff said when they announced their format for Alpha 0 testing. Jeff was from the EQ Next team and they had the exact same style of testing there as well. There was never any inclination that they ever even wanted to focus on the BR. During the stream when they announced the BR, Steven stated that he made that decision because of how toxic everywhere was when the BR was still part attached to the AoC IP.
Gotta watch the streams man. All of this has been said in the past. Only reason we have apoc is because of all of this toxicity and Steven trying to combat it.
Just for the record... how did EQ Next work out? They had a "stand-alone" test game as well right? They charged for this "test" stand-alone game too right?
Here's a snippet to remind you:
On January 31, 2014, EverQuest Next's counterpart Landmark began its official alpha testing phase. Purchasers of the $99.99 Founders Pack or the $59.99 Explorers Pack were allowed into this alpha testing as part of the game developers goal of "making development a collaborative process". Landmark began its closed-beta testing on March 26, 2014.
Hmm.. suddenly announced stand-alone spin-off game... where have we heard that one recently?
And, please refreshen my memory but when exactly was the full MMORPG (EQNext) delivered?
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I'm well aware of what happened with Landmark. The reasoning behind why they made Landmark and Steven's decision to make apoc are completely different. We were never going to have apoc. Apoc was a direct result of the community and was Steven's decision, not Jeff's. Was Steven's decision the best decision in the world? Should he just kept it as an alpha0? Probably, but we're after the fact now. The most we can do is criticize Steven's response to the misinformation that alpha0 was breeding. Back then, people literally thought that the AoC MMO was canceled and that it had become a BR. Atleast Steven changed the conversation a little.
I will agree with you though. I don't know that Steven made the best decision with apoc here. I, and a lot of other people that have kept up, think that he should have just kept it as a bonus testing stage.
As long as we're clear on why Intrepid Studios is currently working on apoc and why apoc got started, my work here is done : P. We can get on to the debate now of perhaps better decisions Steven could have made, lol. Maybe it was a lack of experience in the industry that fueled this? Who knows. We also have Margaret now, so perhaps we won't go down these roller coaster rides in the future ^_^.
On a side note, there is a stream where Jeff talked about the mistakes of the past on the EQ Next project. Stuff about technology not being quite there. I'm sure we can all remember the Storybricks fiasco = P. They were sure to be a lot less ambitious with Ashes of Creation, and that was the point that Jeff was trying to make. Technology is all there to make Ashes of Creation ^_^. It's all been done before. They're just putting a slight twist on old systems. You could really tell how much EQ Next was in his thoughts and how he wanted to assure us that Ashes wouldn't turn out the same way. This stream was a long, long time ago. I think it was during the kickstarter campaign.
I'm well aware of what happened with Landmark. The reasoning behind why they made Landmark and Steven's decision to make apoc are completely different. We were never going to have apoc. Apoc was a direct result of the community and was Steven's decision, not Jeff's. Was Steven's decision the best decision in the world? Should he just kept it as an alpha0? Probably, but we're after the fact now. The most we can do is criticize Steven's response to the misinformation that alpha0 was breeding. Back then, people literally thought that the AoC MMO was canceled and that it had become a BR. Atleast Steven changed the conversation a little.
I will agree with you though. I don't know that Steven made the best decision with apoc here. I, and a lot of other people that have kept up, think that he should have just kept it as a bonus testing stage.
So you said:
That's precisely what Jeff said when they announced their format for Alpha 0 testing. Jeff was from the EQ Next team and they had the exact same style of testing there as well.
And the RESULT of that testing which you say is exactly the same style was a game that was canceled because the game that the testing was supposed to enable ended up being a disaster. So bad it couldn't even be released, even to a market that would buy a plate of shit that had EQ written on it.
So I would say that this style of "stand-alone" testing has PROVEN to be unreliable at best and a disaster that sucks resources from the main game at worst. The only thing it proved successful at was raising some cash for the developers.
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All right, so we are now debating the format of testing. Jeff's the lead developer, and his vision for testing is to try and make it fun. That's a different discussion. Is it going to work this time? We'll have to see. They are stating that they haven't reduced resources for the MMORPG itself. The scope of the BR has definitely evolved since Steven made it a standalone product. I think Jeff's original plan was to keep it pretty limited with Landmark in mind. I'm just guessing at this point = P. I also don't think Steven had Landmark in his thoughts when he decided apoc was a good road to take.
As long as everyone's clear that their intention isn't to make a BR, that they are just following the same testing model that the majority of the team did on their previous project, EQ Next, we're cool : ).
So are we disagreeing with the basis of Jeff's testing methodology here? Or are we thinking that maybe Steven didn't think things through as much as he should have when he expanded the scope to apoc? Would the testing have been fine if the scope was limited to just alpha0? Are we saying that Steven's reaction caused us to land in the same situation that EQ Next was in?
We can't say this yet. We can only hope that Jeff is doing his best to stop a repeat of EQ Next. He has the experience from that project to know when things can cause the MMO to careen off course.
Intrepid Studios hasn't let us down yet. They haven't pushed back their timelines either. We'll only see if the project is heading toward disaster come June when Alpha 1 is due.
You guys want to give Jeff and the team until June to prove that they've got the situation under control?
As long as everyone's clear that their intention isn't to make a BR, that they are just following the same testing model that the majority of the team did on their previous project, EQ Next.
That is actually incorrect.
Their intention IS to create a BR. A stand-alone BR that will exist on it's own. Even if Ashes MMORPG were canceled the BR will exist. So you can say they don't ONLY intend to make a BR game, but then again neither did SoE/Daybreak. We saw how that ended up. And we saw what happened to Fortnite:Save the World. Both are the most analogous examples I can think of. Neither ended well for the originally announced game.
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The point I'm making is that the standalone BR was Steven's reaction to everyone thinking Ashes of Creation was a BR via Alpha0 streams.
Are you saying that the original announcement of the alpha0 with the 3 modes that would only last for a short while was bad too? Or only the decision to make apoc?
Just wondering if you disagree with both the original alpha0 and apoc or just apoc : ).
In any case, we won't know if the MMORPG itself has veered off course until June when alpha 1 is due. I'm asking if we can reserve our judgement until then. If alpha 1 gets pushed back because reasons, we can start to sound the alarms that apoc has killed the MMORPG side of the project, or at the very least delayed it. Is that a fair compromise?
Not trying to be a white knight or anything. There are just people in here saying stuff like "they're testing the BR to see if they even need to make the MMO," which is totally off base =P.
The point I'm making is that the standalone BR was Steven's reaction to everyone thinking Ashes of Creation was a BR via Alpha0 streams.
Are you saying that the original announcement of the alpha0 with the 3 modes that would only last for a short while was bad too? Or only the decision to make apoc?
Just wondering if you disagree with both the original alpha0 and apoc or just apoc : ).
So the solution to everyone thinking Ashes was a stand-alone BR game was to produce a stand-alone BR game... Hmmm...
Anyhow, my opinion is that Steven thinks he found a way to make money. The BR genre is hot right now and he found that he could flip some assets already made and pump out a BR with the associated cash shop in just a few weeks/months.
In my opinion, it's all about the chance to strike gold in the BR genre and very little to do with "testing" the MMORPG because it's been PROVEN that this kind of "testing" has not helped in the past, including EQ:NEXT.
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I'd disagree with your opinion. I can't say why as I'm under NDA though >.<. Take that as you will.
During the stream when he announced apoc, he said that if he was doing it he wanted to make it a self-funding product so that it wouldn't take away funds from the MMORPG.
As long as everyone's clear that their intention isn't to make a BR, that they are just following the same testing model that the majority of the team did on their previous project, EQ Next.
That is actually incorrect.
Their intention IS to create a BR. A stand-alone BR that will exist on it's own. Even if Ashes MMORPG were canceled the BR will exist. So you can say they don't ONLY intend to make a BR game, but then again neither did SoE/Daybreak. We saw how that ended up. And we saw what happened to Fortnite:Save the World. Both are the most analogous examples I can think of. Neither ended well for the originally announced game.
H1Z1 is another great example, brought to you from the same studio originally involved in EQNext / Landmark where apparantly this concept started and has since started spreading.
"H1Z1 is a free-to-play (recently evolved) battle royale game developed and published by Daybreak Game Company. (FKA SOE) The game's development began after the original H1Z1 was spun off into two separate projects in early 2016: H1Z1: Just Survive and H1Z1: King of the Kill.[1][2] The games were further split as separate projects in October 2017, with Just Survive dropping the H1Z1 name, and King of the Kill becoming simply H1Z1.[3]
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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As long as everyone's clear that their intention isn't to make a BR, that they are just following the same testing model that the majority of the team did on their previous project, EQ Next.
That is actually incorrect.
Their intention IS to create a BR. A stand-alone BR that will exist on it's own. Even if Ashes MMORPG were canceled the BR will exist. So you can say they don't ONLY intend to make a BR game, but then again neither did SoE/Daybreak. We saw how that ended up. And we saw what happened to Fortnite:Save the World. Both are the most analogous examples I can think of. Neither ended well for the originally announced game.
H1Z1 is another great example, brought to you from the same studio originally involved in EQNext / Landmark where apparantly this concept started and has since started spreading.
"H1Z1 is a free-to-play (recently evolved) battle royale game developed and published by Daybreak Game Company. (FKA SOE) The game's development began after the original H1Z1 was spun off into two separate projects in early 2016: H1Z1: Just Survive and H1Z1: King of the Kill.[1][2] The games were further split as separate projects in October 2017, with Just Survive dropping the H1Z1 name, and King of the Kill becoming simply H1Z1.[3]
I forgot about that. Good point. They are definitely following that SOE/Daybreak model which has proven to be an utter disaster so far.
3rd times a charm?
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So we're saying that the SOE/Daybreak way of doing things that they started with H1Z1 and Landmark should just stop and that they should go back to more traditional testing, lol.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I want to pose the following argument. EQ Next didn't fail because of the testing methodology. Landmark didn't cause it to fail. Jeff mentioned that EQ Next more or less failed because the technology wasn't ready. I think you all remember Storybricks, right? Remember what the EQ Next AI was like? They didn't have any because Storybricks couldn't deliver. I think that EQ Next failed because of Storybricks, not Landmark. I think that H1Z1 and EQ Next failed for different reasons and both happened to use the same testing strategies.
Fortnite became a BR for a completely separate reason. That was not a proof of concept. They actually introduced another mode. That's not a valid comparison.
Jeff made it very clear that the tech was there for Ashes of Creation, so it wouldn't suffer the same fate that EQ Next did. There is no indication that a proof of concept would cause Ashes of Creation to fail and there is no way to prove that Landmark is what caused EQ Next to fail.
On to the ridiculous theory that Steven is looking for a quick money flip. This is the same guy that stated he would refund ALL kickstarter money if the MMORPG didn't release. That promise is still there. Doesn't sound very greedy, does it? Not only that but he put $30,000,000 of his own money into the project. Would he really want his own project to fail? Would he actually earn his money back on the BR? This is a guy that loves MMORPGs and has lived MMORPGs for a lot of his life. He started Ashes of Creation because he realized that he wanted his ideal MMORPG to become a reality and had the money to make it happen.
Why would a gamer, like us? Somebody that loves MMORPGs as much as we do? Somebody that actually gets to make their own that a lot of people only dream of? Why would that guy want his own MMORPG to fail for a bloody BR? Makes no sense. Not to mention he'd get to refund all of that kickstarter money out of his own pocket. That's a serious lose-lose.
One of the key qualifying aspects to even work at Intrepid Studios is being passionate for MMORPGs. Whenever they've hired a new person on, they've always talked about how they were passionate for MMORPGs and wanted Ashes of Creation to succeed. You guys make it sound like they are some corporate money making machine out of touch with the players. They aren't EA. They aren't Nexon. They are a company made of MMORPG players.
I want to pose the following argument. EQ Next didn't fail because of the testing methodology. Landmark didn't cause it to fail. Jeff mentioned that EQ Next more or less failed because the technology wasn't ready. I think you all remember Storybricks, right? Remember what the EQ Next AI was like? They didn't have any because Storybricks couldn't deliver. I think that EQ Next failed because of Storybricks, not Landmark. I think that H1Z1 and EQ Next failed for different reasons and both happened to use the same testing strategies.
Fortnite became a BR for a completely separate reason. That was not a proof of concept. They actually introduced another mode. That's not a valid comparison.
Jeff made it very clear that the tech was there for Ashes of Creation, so it wouldn't suffer the same fate that EQ Next did. There is no indication that a proof of concept would cause Ashes of Creation to fail and there is no way to prove that Landmark is what caused EQ Next to fail.
On to the ridiculous theory that Steven is looking for a quick money flip. This is the same guy that stated he would refund ALL kickstarter money if the MMORPG didn't release. That promise is still there. Doesn't sound very greedy, does it? Not only that but he put $30,000,000 of his own money into the project. Would he really want his own project to fail? Would he actually earn his money back on the BR? This is a guy that loves MMORPGs and has lived MMORPGs for a lot of his life. He started Ashes of Creation because he realized that he wanted his ideal MMORPG to become a reality and had the money to make it happen.
Why would a gamer, like us? Somebody that loves MMORPGs as much as we do? Somebody that actually gets to make their own that a lot of people only dream of? Why would that guy want his own MMORPG to fail for a bloody BR? Makes no sense. Not to mention he'd get to refund all of that kickstarter money out of his own pocket. That's a serious lose-lose.
One of the key qualifying aspects to even work at Intrepid Studios is being passionate for MMORPGs. Whenever they've hired a new person on, they've always talked about how they were passionate for MMORPGs and wanted Ashes of Creation to succeed. You guys make it sound like they are some corporate money making machine out of touch with the players. They aren't EA. They aren't Nexon. They are a company made of MMORPG players.
So much wrong with the above, but I have no reason to play the irresistible force to your immovable object. Anyone interested can read the earlier posts and make their own decisions.
As I told the earlier guy: You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
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I never said the MMO was not being developed. I said creating a STAND ALONE Battle Royale game is a dumbass way to test for an MMORPG. You yourself mentioned the "hybrid" combat system for the MMO. You yourself then said it's on us to prove that "they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO". You did it yourself. The MMO will have a DIFFERENT combat system.
You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So with that in mind, let's get back to your first point: creating a battleground standalone game (not just a BR, don't forget castle sieges and horde mode) is a dumb way to collect information for their action combat skills. If they released a grey box battleground where 100 people spawned on the ground, picked up items with abilities and whacked each other to measure things like hit boxes, damage output, server frame rates and so on would you think that information was only useful for a battleground mode like the one the devs have you testing in? Of course not, that's not how game development works.
Seriously, stop being so pedantic if you're not actually educated in what you're lecturing about. If it helps the game (and from what we're seeing in terms of far less people now complaining about their combat) who actually cares. If you're mad that developers release a free game on top of continuing to work on a more expensive game, reevaluate your life.
Have fun.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When you decide you want to test your rpg you simply say "we want to test the combat"you DON'T say we want to test BR lol.
Pvp is dumb anyhow,sure it might be a good gimmick to support a cash shop but serious rpg players won't be playing any BR or cash shop game.
Epic games id the exact same thing,Fortnite was suppose to be a rpg,wasn't making the kind of money they wanted to see so they copied one of their customers "PubG team" and went that route for FN.
I sure hope that finally all the nay sayers realize these developers have NO PASSION for game design,all they care about is money and the business.When a developer comes along with passion for the game they are delivering,you will know,it will simply look great and not be full of gimmicks.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The initial BR was made as a bonus testing stage. It was to test out the combat. Not only was the initial BR a bonus, but everyone with any account was going to be eventually invited to play it and get their hands on it. This announcement was very exciting for a lot of people. The streaming of the BR test, which everyone in the know was very happy with, caused people that weren't really following the game to think that it was now a BR. Confusion continued to spread and Intrepid Studios did its very best to combat all of the misinformation that was going around. In a last ditch effort, Steven decided that it would be best to separate out the bonus testing from the AOC IP, making it its own thing. This would no longer associate it with the MMORPG. To accomplish this, they had to make it a fully viable standalone product that could support itself.
You guys may be calling Fortnite and all of that, but you need to remember what got us into this situation.
What about all of the focus on the BR development? They aren't focusing on the MMORPG now? Is the MMORPG project going to be derailed and canceled?
So.... one of the cool things is that all of this network infrastructure stuff that they are doing... well, this is work they would have had to do either way. They are doing it now rather than later. They have to do it now because of the point that if they are splitting off their bonus testing from the AoC IP and making it a standalone product, Steven wants to make sure that it's a success and that it can support itself. It's not lost work, it's just a bit out of order from their initial plans.
Now on to the other point. Why did they do a BR in the first place to test their mechanics? What about horde and siege? Why do this stuff? Well, we need to go back to Jeff's original goal. He wanted to get the playerbase involved in testing. He was part of the EQ Next team and they followed a philosophy that traditional testing was boring and that nobody would sign up for it willingly. So, what did they do? They saw BR was pretty popular and figured that could get people motivated to playtest the stuff they needed tested and provide them with data. Why siege/horde? Well, siege/horde are actually parts of the MMORPG. Siege mode is going to be the testing ground for the actual MMORPG sieges and horde mode is going to be the testing ground for monster tokens.
Of course we can argue that maybe they should have gone with arenas, like 1v1 and 3v3, over BR. Either would have been simple to do. They just figured that people would enjoy BR more than an arena given the gaming landscape, so that's what they went with. Trying to appeal to us, the gaming community, and get us excited to test their combat.
Joined - July 2004
I hope that's what's going on and not an H1Z1 situation.
That's precisely what Jeff said when they announced their format for Alpha 0 testing. Jeff was from the EQ Next team and they had the exact same style of testing there as well. There was never any inclination that they ever even wanted to focus on the BR. During the stream when they announced apoc, Steven stated that he made that decision because of how toxic everywhere was when the BR was still part attached to the AoC IP.
Gotta watch the streams man. All of this has been said in the past. Only reason we have apoc is because of all of this toxicity and Steven trying to combat it.
Spreading a bunch of misinformation just makes things harder for Intrepid Studios. They had one stream where they talked about the MMORPG community being a wounded animal that would bite anyone that tried to help it. They called these reactions a year ago.
They're doing the best they can to be as transparent as possible, keeping everyone properly informed, and trying to combat misinformation. Let's try to make their jobs just a little bit easier by trying to not be part of the problem : ).
Of course, everyone's totally open to criticism, just not when it's rooted in hearsay = P.
Now what's really cool is how much the siege and horde formats are going to directly impact the MMORPG itself. The BR tested combat. The siege tests siege battles. The horde mode tests monster tokens : ). We're going to be getting to play with some of the features that will be in the MMORPG =D.
They had a "stand-alone" test game as well right?
They charged for this "test" stand-alone game too right?
Here's a snippet to remind you:
On January 31, 2014, EverQuest Next's counterpart Landmark began its official alpha testing phase. Purchasers of the $99.99 Founders Pack or the $59.99 Explorers Pack were allowed into this alpha testing as part of the game developers goal of "making development a collaborative process". Landmark began its closed-beta testing on March 26, 2014.
Hmm.. suddenly announced stand-alone spin-off game... where have we heard that one recently?
And, please refreshen my memory but when exactly was the full MMORPG (EQNext) delivered?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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I will agree with you though. I don't know that Steven made the best decision with apoc here. I, and a lot of other people that have kept up, think that he should have just kept it as a bonus testing stage.
As long as we're clear on why Intrepid Studios is currently working on apoc and why apoc got started, my work here is done : P. We can get on to the debate now of perhaps better decisions Steven could have made, lol. Maybe it was a lack of experience in the industry that fueled this? Who knows. We also have Margaret now, so perhaps we won't go down these roller coaster rides in the future ^_^.
On a side note, there is a stream where Jeff talked about the mistakes of the past on the EQ Next project. Stuff about technology not being quite there. I'm sure we can all remember the Storybricks fiasco = P. They were sure to be a lot less ambitious with Ashes of Creation, and that was the point that Jeff was trying to make. Technology is all there to make Ashes of Creation ^_^. It's all been done before. They're just putting a slight twist on old systems. You could really tell how much EQ Next was in his thoughts and how he wanted to assure us that Ashes wouldn't turn out the same way. This stream was a long, long time ago. I think it was during the kickstarter campaign.
That's precisely what Jeff said when they announced their format for Alpha 0 testing. Jeff was from the EQ Next team and they had the exact same style of testing there as well.
And the RESULT of that testing which you say is exactly the same style was a game that was canceled because the game that the testing was supposed to enable ended up being a disaster. So bad it couldn't even be released, even to a market that would buy a plate of shit that had EQ written on it.
So I would say that this style of "stand-alone" testing has PROVEN to be unreliable at best and a disaster that sucks resources from the main game at worst. The only thing it proved successful at was raising some cash for the developers.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As long as everyone's clear that their intention isn't to make a BR, that they are just following the same testing model that the majority of the team did on their previous project, EQ Next, we're cool : ).
So are we disagreeing with the basis of Jeff's testing methodology here? Or are we thinking that maybe Steven didn't think things through as much as he should have when he expanded the scope to apoc? Would the testing have been fine if the scope was limited to just alpha0? Are we saying that Steven's reaction caused us to land in the same situation that EQ Next was in?
We can't say this yet. We can only hope that Jeff is doing his best to stop a repeat of EQ Next. He has the experience from that project to know when things can cause the MMO to careen off course.
Intrepid Studios hasn't let us down yet. They haven't pushed back their timelines either. We'll only see if the project is heading toward disaster come June when Alpha 1 is due.
You guys want to give Jeff and the team until June to prove that they've got the situation under control?
Their intention IS to create a BR. A stand-alone BR that will exist on it's own. Even if Ashes MMORPG were canceled the BR will exist. So you can say they don't ONLY intend to make a BR game, but then again neither did SoE/Daybreak. We saw how that ended up. And we saw what happened to Fortnite:Save the World. Both are the most analogous examples I can think of. Neither ended well for the originally announced game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Are you saying that the original announcement of the alpha0 with the 3 modes that would only last for a short while was bad too? Or only the decision to make apoc?
Just wondering if you disagree with both the original alpha0 and apoc or just apoc : ).
In any case, we won't know if the MMORPG itself has veered off course until June when alpha 1 is due. I'm asking if we can reserve our judgement until then. If alpha 1 gets pushed back because reasons, we can start to sound the alarms that apoc has killed the MMORPG side of the project, or at the very least delayed it. Is that a fair compromise?
Not trying to be a white knight or anything. There are just people in here saying stuff like "they're testing the BR to see if they even need to make the MMO," which is totally off base =P.
Anyhow, my opinion is that Steven thinks he found a way to make money. The BR genre is hot right now and he found that he could flip some assets already made and pump out a BR with the associated cash shop in just a few weeks/months.
In my opinion, it's all about the chance to strike gold in the BR genre and very little to do with "testing" the MMORPG because it's been PROVEN that this kind of "testing" has not helped in the past, including EQ:NEXT.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
During the stream when he announced apoc, he said that if he was doing it he wanted to make it a self-funding product so that it wouldn't take away funds from the MMORPG.
"H1Z1 is a free-to-play (recently evolved) battle royale game developed and published by Daybreak Game Company. (FKA SOE) The game's development began after the original H1Z1 was spun off into two separate projects in early 2016: H1Z1: Just Survive and H1Z1: King of the Kill.[1][2] The games were further split as separate projects in October 2017, with Just Survive dropping the H1Z1 name, and King of the Kill becoming simply H1Z1.[3]
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
3rd times a charm?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"The game released in early access in January 2015, selling over a million copies within two months, before being discontinued in October 2018."
Let's hope Ashes "the MMORPG" survives but with several former SOE employees at the helm what could wrong?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fortnite became a BR for a completely separate reason. That was not a proof of concept. They actually introduced another mode. That's not a valid comparison.
Jeff made it very clear that the tech was there for Ashes of Creation, so it wouldn't suffer the same fate that EQ Next did. There is no indication that a proof of concept would cause Ashes of Creation to fail and there is no way to prove that Landmark is what caused EQ Next to fail.
On to the ridiculous theory that Steven is looking for a quick money flip. This is the same guy that stated he would refund ALL kickstarter money if the MMORPG didn't release. That promise is still there. Doesn't sound very greedy, does it? Not only that but he put $30,000,000 of his own money into the project. Would he really want his own project to fail? Would he actually earn his money back on the BR? This is a guy that loves MMORPGs and has lived MMORPGs for a lot of his life. He started Ashes of Creation because he realized that he wanted his ideal MMORPG to become a reality and had the money to make it happen.
Why would a gamer, like us? Somebody that loves MMORPGs as much as we do? Somebody that actually gets to make their own that a lot of people only dream of? Why would that guy want his own MMORPG to fail for a bloody BR? Makes no sense. Not to mention he'd get to refund all of that kickstarter money out of his own pocket. That's a serious lose-lose.
One of the key qualifying aspects to even work at Intrepid Studios is being passionate for MMORPGs. Whenever they've hired a new person on, they've always talked about how they were passionate for MMORPGs and wanted Ashes of Creation to succeed. You guys make it sound like they are some corporate money making machine out of touch with the players. They aren't EA. They aren't Nexon. They are a company made of MMORPG players.
As I told the earlier guy: You can believe all their bullshit all you want. I have no desire to convince you otherwise. But be sure to come back and check in with us in 6 months for an update.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018