Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

R9 290X vs RX580

SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
I've been thinking for upgrade for awhile now because my 290X seems to be on its last legs (plus its very power hungry card) and I've been looking into decent GPUs that aren't Vega (because they have the same issues 290X has) and I keep reading that the RX5xx series are nice GPUs all things considered. 

Now I know a lot of you will tell me to just go ahead and get an nvidia GPU, but I sort of bought a 144hz screen with AMD's FreeSync flavor so going green is out of the question as I'll probably need to get another monitor for this one. (And as a proud 3800 SR Overwatch player, I ain't going back to 60Hz, no way in hell)

However what stops me is that ... performance-wise the 580 seems to be literally the same as 290X just with the boon of minimized TDP. Am I wrong in this assessment or the 290X is still more performant than the RX 580? 

So basically what I'm asking is if it is worth it or I should stick with my 290X until something better arrives or it melts down completely? 

P.S: 1080p gamer here

Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,701
    edited September 2018
    RX 580 gives about same performance as 290X.

    If you want to upgrade now, you should look at GTX 1080. That would give you nearly double your current performance, and you can use it with your current monitor just fine. FreeSync is optional extra and if you get NVidia's GPU the monitor will work just fine with FreeSync turned off.

    FreeSync is nice to have if you can get AMD's GPU that you're happy with, but if you want to upgrade now you shouldn't start waiting because you might have to wait more than a year for AMD to release their next consumer GPUs.

    Though with that said, your current GPU should be more than good enough for 1080 gaming.
    Ridelynn
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146
    My 2c:

    Pick up a 1080 while they are on fire sale right now, or wait.

    Vega is a good option, “hot and loud” is more a function of the specific AIB, not necessarily an entire generation of chips. Prices are finally coming down to sanity on those.

    That being said, AMD did imply they may have something new if not by the end of this year, then early next year.

    Now, you can always wait for the next thing, and be waiting forever. Given the performance level of your existing card and the fact that it works, this isn’t an urgent thing it seems.
    Torval
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679
    A Radeon RX 580 is about as fast as your Radeon R9 290X.  It will use a lot less power, but it's not really an upgrade.  I wouldn't recommend it unless reducing power consumption is your sole goal or the old card is failing.

    One upgrade option is to go Nvidia, as others have said.  That might not be the best idea with a 144 Hz monitor, however, as that will prevent an Nvidia GPU from clocking down at idle.  I've got a Vega 64 with three 144 Hz monitors, and it will go all the way down to 26 MHz when truly idle at the desktop.

    Another would be to go with a Vega 56, which you can now get for $400:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131740
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202318

    That will be a lot faster than your current card, while also using considerably less power.  Part of the reason why Vega can be a power hog is that AMD clocked it pretty aggressively by default.  But you don't have to stay with those aggressive clock speeds.

    Vega also has three tricks up its sleeve that your Hawaii GPU doesn't:

    1)  Radeon Chill will monitor GPU usage and throttle back clock speeds and voltages when you're not pushing the card that hard.  That includes light gaming.  If it sees that you can get 144 frames per second with a clock speed far below the nominal stock speed, it will bring the clock speed and voltage down for you automatically and without noticeably affecting performance.

    2)  Radeon WattMan makes it easy to move the maximum clock speeds up or down from the default.  If you set a maximum clock speed well below the default maximum, it can automatically adjust voltages downward for you, too, and be a pretty efficient GPU.  Obviously, reducing the clock speed lowers performance, too, but you might be able to make it roughly match a GTX 1070's load power consumption and price tag, while still offering FreeSync support and clocking down properly at idle.

    3)  Vega uses HBM2, which doesn't use very much power.  AMD said that the memory controllers alone in Hawaii used more than 30 W.  They said four stacks of HBM in Fiji used just over 10 W.  I'd bet on two stacks of HBM2 in Vega 10 on a 14 nm process node as being much less than 10 W.  While Vega isn't that willing to throttle back memory clock speeds, if it's using under 10 W when going all out, throttling that back doesn't particularly matter anyway.

    Another option is to wait for 7 nm.  AMD has promised to launch a big Vega on 7 nm this year.  It's not clear whether there will ever be Radeon cards based on that GPU, but once you can do a big die on 7 nm, it's easy to do smaller dies, too.  That will offer huge energy savings, and I'd bet on a lot of 7 nm GPUs being available within a year.
    OzmodanTorvalGdemami
  • SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    edited September 2018
    I think my GPU is on its last legs because it tends to get in temperatures that it never has before, and I clean it up regularly. I suppose the thermal pads are dead or well, about to die. It still is an amazing gamer at 1080p but yeah, I don't think I can cool it off any longer even when my room feels like the fucking north pole with AC on and whatnot. It's not just the power savings im after. It's a reference board that I have and it is really really loud. Like, your vacuum cleaner on at all times loud. Now I've managed this for the past five years but I finally think i'm able to move on xD 

    But thanks for letting me know that RX580 is similar performance, I suppose I'll look into current offerings. Not really interested with what nvidia is selling with RTX either. I play some of my games on lowest settings just so I can minimize the input lag so I'm not really after graphics all that much, but in other games like Assassin's Creed or Witcher where I just want to chill I do enjoy eyecandy here and there. 

    And damn it, FreeSync is really fucking nice when I can't maintain 144fps in those games that I want eyecandy at. I will truly miss it if I go green. 

    P.S: I've never modded a GPU to install aftermarket cooler, outside of water cooling, are there any other alternatives? I'm a bit ~~~ about water cooling since it needs maintenance and I don't think I'm qualified enough to provide it c.c 
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,701
    P.S: I've never modded a GPU to install aftermarket cooler, outside of water cooling, are there any other alternatives? I'm a bit ~~~ about water cooling since it needs maintenance and I don't think I'm qualified enough to provide it c.c 
    There are also aftermarket air coolers available, but the problem is that any aftermarket cooler would cost you close to $100, and they aren't that easy to install, and even if it's likely that overheating problem can be solved with a new cooler it's not guaranteed to work. You'd be spending a lot of money on a solution that's uncertain.
    OzmodanTorval
     
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,701

    But thanks for letting me know that RX580 is similar performance, I suppose I'll look into current offerings. Not really interested with what nvidia is selling with RTX either. I play some of my games on lowest settings just so I can minimize the input lag so I'm not really after graphics all that much, but in other games like Assassin's Creed or Witcher where I just want to chill I do enjoy eyecandy here and there. 
    If you need to buy a new GPU because your old one is dying, then RX 580 is a good choice. If you don't care about noise and heat generated then it's likely the best choice for 1080p gaming on a FreeSync monitor.

    If you're very conscious about heat and noise, then RX 580 uses about 50% more power compared to GTX 1060. But as long as you get a card with good cooling that's much more important than the amount of power used.

    Remember to look for reviews that do measurements on heat and noise of that specific model before buying. If there are no reviews for that model then it's a cheaper model that doesn't have as good cooler.
     
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    Hold on, hold on, there's a extremely cheap solution that will solve all your 290x problems in minutes.

    Buy 2 Arctic F9 PWM fans, a bag of zip-ties, one 4-pin pwm splitter and an extender (or if u you have enough room to plug fans on your motherboard skip a splitter or extender).

    Remove the plastic shroud and the fan, zip-tie the 2 92mm fans to the heatsink, and maybe the one closer to where the original fan was to sit a bit over the heatsink.

    And you've solved all of your problems.

    In the case that you can't find the splitters and extenders, nor a cheap fan controller instead, you can get non PWM versions which you should able to plug into your motherboard 3 PIN spots near the gpu, and then control speed if needed from bios.

    Though i still recommend PWM version, and a splitter+extender or fan controller.
    GorweRidelynnTorval
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,299
    edited September 2018
    nVidia's idle clock speeds at 144 hz is a little disappointing. I thought maybe something caused it that can be corrected, but I was mistaken which is why n-Sync monitors are limited to 120hz. I don't think I would recommend either the RX 580 or Vega 56/64 with your current workload if it wasn't for the refresh rate. Especially since GPU prices are down.
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    edited September 2018
    Gorwe said:
    Solutions like these are...orgasmic really. I love seeing people spend 1234$$$ when they can fix it with 100$ without really being aware of it. <3
    more like $30, :), fans are 2x$10 or under, and extender + splitter + bag of zip-ties $15 or under.

    heck you could say those fans are $6, because there is a 5 pack fan sale going on for $30 for 10 years now for those all over the world.
    Torval
  • SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    edited September 2018
    13lake said:
    Gorwe said:
    Solutions like these are...orgasmic really. I love seeing people spend 1234$$$ when they can fix it with 100$ without really being aware of it. <3
    more like $30, :), fans are 2x$10 or under, and extender + splitter + bag of zip-ties $15 or under.

    heck you could say those fans are $6, because there is a 5 pack fan sale going on for $30 for 10 years now for those all over the world.
    Honestly I'd like to see this in production because like I said, I clean the GPU by dusting its fan AND radiator AND backplate. I could sell it as a new afterwards and you wouldn't know. Yet it still surges high temps, this is precisely why I am thinking the thermal pads are dying and your solution won't help with failing thermal pads :O 

    I don't mean to be offensive, it's just, albeit it being loud, it did work fine for the past 5 years and suddenly it isn't. 

    EDIT: I've never removed the radiator as I don't know what they use on GPUs other than thermal pads. Do they use thermal paste like the ones we put on CPUs? 
    Ozmodan
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    edited September 2018
    Honestly I'd like to see this in production because like I said, I clean the GPU by dusting its fan AND radiator AND backplate. I could sell it as a new afterwards and you wouldn't know. Yet it still surges high temps, this is precisely why I am thinking the thermal pads are dying and your solution won't help with failing thermal pads :O 

    I don't mean to be offensive, it's just, albeit it being loud, it did work fine for the past 5 years and suddenly it isn't. 

    EDIT: I've never removed the radiator as I don't know what they use on GPUs other than thermal pads. Do they use thermal paste like the ones we put on CPUs? 
    Oh, my solution will definitely work even if all the pads are fried.

    Under the GPU chip itself, normal thermal paste is used, you definitely need to replace this no mater what else you decide to do.

    Under the vrm's there are thermal pads, but they will be fine with the current ones (if you're careful enough when removing the whole heatsink(radiator), some of the old should stay "whole" and in place, and you can just put the old back on when you're putting everything back together).

    Your main problem is the the thermal paste under the chip itself needs to be replaced. Your 2nd most important problem is that little fan is shit, and all similar blower solutions produce high temperatures.

    Putting 2 proper fans is gonna do wonders for temperatures ( they will properly cool the card even if you put it back together without pads (no reason not to buy some thermal pads in the process if you find them and want to go the extra mile).

    What you could do for starters is get a decent thermal paste that's not too expensive and remove everything clean the old paste of the gpu chip with isopropyl alcohol on toilet paper or coffee filters or cotton swabs, and place new paste on, google how much, a small pea-ammount is ok.

    This way you can test the temperatures without buying the fans, and if u do decide to do my idea, you don't have to remove the whole heatsink(radiator) again, just the plastic part and the fan itself.

    You can tell me what shop you use to buy stuff, i can recommend you a good price-to-performance thermal paste ?
    Torval
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,468
    edited September 2018
    I moved from my faithful old 290x to a 980ti (about one and half year ago, I got a good opportunity on the card), and the performance improvement is huge. You can find those cards, which are as good as a GTX1070 for "cheap" nowadays.
    Torval
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146
    edited September 2018
    I moved from my faithful old 290x to a 980ti (about one and half year ago, I got a good opportunity on the card), and the performance improvement is huge. You can find those cards, which are as good as a GTX1070 for "cheap" nowadays.
    Used I agree. Trying to find older architectures new and, once the inventory fire sales are over, the prices are astronomical.

    This was what popped up on Amazon, for example:
    https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Clocked-Graphic-06G-P4-4995-KR/dp/B00YDAYOK0/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1537974173&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=980+ti&dpPl=1&dpID=41h4P9P2O3L&ref=plSrch

    Compare with similar items shows the same story - almost $700 for a Ti, and over $500 for the plain 980.

    Polaris is on somewhat of a firesale now - can find RX580s under $200 lately. Pascal has at least come down to MSRP levels but with the RTX SNAFU haven’t really dipped like you would typically see.
    Torval
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Ridelynn said:
    I moved from my faithful old 290x to a 980ti (about one and half year ago, I got a good opportunity on the card), and the performance improvement is huge. You can find those cards, which are as good as a GTX1070 for "cheap" nowadays.
    Used I agree. Trying to find older architectures new and, once the inventory fire sales are over, the prices are astronomical.

    This was what popped up on Amazon, for example:
    https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Clocked-Graphic-06G-P4-4995-KR/dp/B00YDAYOK0/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1537974173&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=980+ti&dpPl=1&dpID=41h4P9P2O3L&ref=plSrch

    Compare with similar items shows the same story - almost $700 for a Ti, and over $500 for the plain 980.

    Polaris is on somewhat of a firesale now - can find RX580s under $200 lately. Pascal has at least come down to MSRP levels but with the RTX SNAFU haven’t really dipped like you would typically see.
    Go look on Ebay, 10xx prices are amazing right now for new cards, dealers are dumping inventory.  You will not find prices like this again for some time.
  • SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    Well, I figured I'd man up and change the thermal solution and if it doesn't work, i'd take your advice guys and just go with an 10xx nvidia (or that new RTX 2060 since apparently it packs a punch)

    Well, once I opened the card I almost died a little inside. I don't how they assembled cards 5 years ago but that was one of the worst thermal paste application I've ever seen in my entire life. They basically laid down a metric ton of paste on a scratched copper plate, it was all over the place I was cleaning it for at least 40 minutes with ear sticks and tooth picks for the tiny spaces.

    Re-applied new paste doing sort of an tiny X and a dot at the middle (as suggested by EK water blocks) and lo and behold. My thermals went down, in fact, i haven't seen the card hit over 80 degrees regardless of what I do. I'm extremely happy with the outcome, I can game for hours without caring about thermals at all. I do not need MSI Afterburner to keep my card alive anymore. I can wait for a market disruptor card now because my 290X still packs a punch.

    In case you guys wonder, the thermal paste I used was Noctua NT-H1. It's classified as CPU thermal solution but it did its job and the GPU is as stable as its best days , if not more. As I said, I'm extremely  happy with the result.

    Went on and bought a Ryzen 2700X and new mobo/ram combo got the ram running at 3200MHz and the computer is pretty performant.

    Thank you all for your solutions. I guess when I build new computers from now on I'll google whether or not the stock thermal paste is good one, as we do with Intel i7 CPUs (delidding)
    QuizzicalRidelynnAsm0deusTorval
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679
    Well, I figured I'd man up and change the thermal solution and if it doesn't work, i'd take your advice guys and just go with an 10xx nvidia (or that new RTX 2060 since apparently it packs a punch)

    Well, once I opened the card I almost died a little inside. I don't how they assembled cards 5 years ago but that was one of the worst thermal paste application I've ever seen in my entire life. They basically laid down a metric ton of paste on a scratched copper plate, it was all over the place I was cleaning it for at least 40 minutes with ear sticks and tooth picks for the tiny spaces.

    Re-applied new paste doing sort of an tiny X and a dot at the middle (as suggested by EK water blocks) and lo and behold. My thermals went down, in fact, i haven't seen the card hit over 80 degrees regardless of what I do. I'm extremely happy with the outcome, I can game for hours without caring about thermals at all. I do not need MSI Afterburner to keep my card alive anymore. I can wait for a market disruptor card now because my 290X still packs a punch.

    In case you guys wonder, the thermal paste I used was Noctua NT-H1. It's classified as CPU thermal solution but it did its job and the GPU is as stable as its best days , if not more. As I said, I'm extremely  happy with the result.

    Went on and bought a Ryzen 2700X and new mobo/ram combo got the ram running at 3200MHz and the computer is pretty performant.

    Thank you all for your solutions. I guess when I build new computers from now on I'll google whether or not the stock thermal paste is good one, as we do with Intel i7 CPUs (delidding)
    Exactly which card is it?  And perhaps more to the point, if it's not a reference card, which board partner?  Whoever assembled the card is who you need to blame for this, as using a ton of thermal paste is the wrong way to do it, as you realized.
    Torval
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146
    Glad it worked out. What you describe is more typical than you'd think, unfortunately. A lot of people will just go and say "Well, it's because XXX chip runs hotter" or something like that... and there's some truth to it, but it's not exactly the case.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-comparison,5108-4.html

    Thermal paste doesn't differ between CPU, GPU, or for that matter, any type of electronic heat sink. There's nothing magical about it - it's just there to fill in for microscopic gaps between the metal surfaces, so heat can transfer better. I've used toothpaste before on a dare, and it worked almost as well as the $15/application high end CPU stuff.

    Since it's just filling microscopic gaps - less is better than more, you want the absolute minimum amount required to cover the entire surface. I always likened it to melted butter over toast, not peanut butter on PB&J.

    The biggest danger in thermal paste isn't which paste you choose (it does matter, it's just not nearly as important as you'd think), it much more dependent on in how it's applied. As you found out - there's definitely wrong ways to do it. But if you do it correctly, you can get away with some pretty ridiculous material on the low end and it will still work out fine.

    I bet your 290X has some life left in it now. Good to hear.
    Torval
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,679
    The idea of thermal paste is that without it, there will be tiny air bubbles between the heatsink base and the integrated heatspreader.  Air is a terrible conductor.  Fill those pockets of air with thermal paste instead, and you greatly improve the situation, as thermal paste has about 100 times the thermal conductivity of air.

    The problem with using too much is that the aluminum and copper in the heatsink have about 100 times the thermal conductivity of thermal paste.  If you have to conduct heat through a thick layer of thermal paste, that's not going to work very well, as it insulates the heat too well.  You want just enough thermal paste to get rid of most of the pockets of air, and no more.

    If one thermal paste has twice the conductivity of another, that barely matters.  The factor of 100 in both directions (as compared to air and as compared to aluminum/copper) is the big thing.  Change it to a factor of 50 and you've barely made a dent, which is why I've been so careless with rounding here (e.g., copper has nearly double the conductivity of aluminum, so they can't simultaneously be exactly 100 times the conductivity of a particular thermal paste).

    Even some ordinary household substances such as mayonnaise do a fine job of filling the air with something that conducts heat a lot better than air over the very short term.  The reason to pay for thermal paste is so that you can have something that will last for years through many thousands of heating and cooling cycles without rotting, becoming rancid, or otherwise decomposing, and without damaging the heatspreader or heatsink.  Longevity is the hard part of thermal paste, not conductivity.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,343
    edited January 2019
    Another thing to note is scratches like you mention on the copper is quite bad as well. The copper part should be nice a smooth to limit the air bubbles and thus paste required to bridge the gaps.
    Torval

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    edited January 2019
    Quizzical said:
    Well, I figured I'd man up and change the thermal solution and if it doesn't work, i'd take your advice guys and just go with an 10xx nvidia (or that new RTX 2060 since apparently it packs a punch)

    Well, once I opened the card I almost died a little inside. I don't how they assembled cards 5 years ago but that was one of the worst thermal paste application I've ever seen in my entire life. They basically laid down a metric ton of paste on a scratched copper plate, it was all over the place I was cleaning it for at least 40 minutes with ear sticks and tooth picks for the tiny spaces.

    Re-applied new paste doing sort of an tiny X and a dot at the middle (as suggested by EK water blocks) and lo and behold. My thermals went down, in fact, i haven't seen the card hit over 80 degrees regardless of what I do. I'm extremely happy with the outcome, I can game for hours without caring about thermals at all. I do not need MSI Afterburner to keep my card alive anymore. I can wait for a market disruptor card now because my 290X still packs a punch.

    In case you guys wonder, the thermal paste I used was Noctua NT-H1. It's classified as CPU thermal solution but it did its job and the GPU is as stable as its best days , if not more. As I said, I'm extremely  happy with the result.

    Went on and bought a Ryzen 2700X and new mobo/ram combo got the ram running at 3200MHz and the computer is pretty performant.

    Thank you all for your solutions. I guess when I build new computers from now on I'll google whether or not the stock thermal paste is good one, as we do with Intel i7 CPUs (delidding)
    Exactly which card is it?  And perhaps more to the point, if it's not a reference card, which board partner?  Whoever assembled the card is who you need to blame for this, as using a ton of thermal paste is the wrong way to do it, as you realized.
    Reference PowerColor R9 290X OC. As far as I understood, board partners did nothing on these cards, AMD shipped them to board partners with slapped on sticker on the fan and all they did was package it. Upon further reading someone suggested that the card has been assembled by hand. The reference one at least. Thus some of them have shitton of thermal paste.

    EDIT: This one https://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/powercolor_r9_290x_oc/2.htm
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,299
    I am pretty sure for reference designs, the board partners still make the pcb and assemble everything. They just don't need to engineer anything. AMD provides the chip and design.
    RidelynnTorval
Sign In or Register to comment.