I see a lot of ''these guys had the right to ban him because..." Because what he OWNS the game? He was streaming it in the back ground? They dont want a 'guy like this in their community'. So it would be OK for them to hack into his Steam account and ban him from every game he owns by that rationale.
The ONLY entity I see that has an argument to ban him would be twitch. I am sure he broke the ToS somewhere. Or maybe he didnt since he muted the mic no one knows what was said.
Twitch promotes RP and 'entertainers' and 'content creation' thats why they exist. But because this is a touchy subject and it had bad optics (hate that word) they jump right into action.
Like I said no one knows if the person was really suicidal, if the guy was being played/doxxed, or really anything. Is it entertaining to pick on weak people? Must be look at some of the TV shows that get the highest ratings. But since this is 'real life' (as opposed to reality {based} TV) it isnt allowed apparently. Its OK to have mature rated games with gutting and all manner of horrendous shit going on in the game itself. Its even OK for people to roleplay sadistic and twisted characters (up to the point of RP) which include some pretty heinous things. But somehow suicide is now a very taboo subject.
Sign of the times. Suicide used to have a stigma and a (religious/spiritual) consequence. With the erosion of core values and morals in society as a whole its on the rise. And as some studies show its the number two or three 'source' of teen deaths. Its not like kids havent thought about killing themselves since the beginning of humanity. It also isnt like mental health issues havent existed either. And one could say that the acceptance and openness of mental health issues is at an all time hjigh and getting more 'main stream'. So with all that why is it suicide is so prevalent? Rhetorical question because I already answered it.
Couple the desensitizing of morality and religion and add a dash of social media and a larger audience for people to get bullied or influenced along with the ever present maturing nature of being a teen and any legitimate mental health issues people have and thats what you get.
You will never change the outside influences now, cant put that genie back in the bottle. But getting back to core values and a better morality system (not based on flavor of the month ideology but ones that have existed for centuries) is a good first step. And you cant tell them or convince them after its too late. They have to have those values instilled in them from the beginning.
It goes beyond even suicide where I dont think a third of the kids coming up now even know the difference between 'right and wrong' at least on a large scale. Right and wrong are whatever the most people say it is these days. This thread which I am sure is composed of people who are surely more mature than teens shows that pretty plainly.
Ehhh
Not a fan of BigBrother
Guy is a douche but he didn't do anything in the game to warrant JagEx getting involved.
As far as Twitch... again, not a fan of allowing corporations to shut off people. Twitch is a platform like AT&T. I wouldn't want AT&T shutting down the service of some guy just because he is an asshole.
When we allow corporations to do this we lose our freedom.
That includes freedom to be an ass.
If he broke any law (which might actually have been done) he should be prosecuted, but all this self-righteous banning needs to stop.
I know many will differ and reply. In order to prevent this thread from getting shut down like every one before I will not respond. My point is simple. If the guy broke the law prosecute him. If not, and you dislike his actions, then don't watch him. I know I wouldn't. But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
I think you and I kinda figured out where each other are coming from on these topics in general via our PM convo recently.
I get your aversion to censorship of any form. With the connectivity of the internet, though, I have a sneaky suspicion he'd have enough folks think this is hilarious to not even notice the negative consequences you imply, as sad as that is to say.
I disagreed with Slapshot until I didn't. If it is that bad and isn't against the law. . make it against the law. I argue the other way as well. If we don't prosecute. . then why is it still against the law.
I do think that Twitch is a far cry from AT&T and would argue if someone used their cell phone to try to suggest someone kill themselves they would have the right to shut down that service. Isn't *not* allowing the company to do that making us the ultimate big brother? (terrible argument. . I know
I think the argument about Twitch is a different one than JagEx. So since this title was about JagEx that's what I focus on. I think there is somewhat more of a case to be made for Twitch. Not that I would agree necessarily but that is at least on somewhat firmer ground than JagEx.
The last thing I want is for companies to play moral police. If he broke a law, then he should get prosecuted. If he didn't, then it's damn scary that we would let a company play moral police because we agree the guy is an asshole. Someday (maybe even today!) someone might think I'm the asshole. Maybe even for defending the guy, and then Comcast pulls my service...
It's a bad road. I know people are trying to judge based on whether what the guy did was bad...it was. There is no arguing it. But bad and illegal are two different things and letting companies become the moral arbiters (for stuff not within their games) is a very dark road to start down.
(sorry.. I said I wouldn't debate it but I honestly love these conversations... I will do my best to have self-control for the rest of the night).
Ehhh
Not a fan of BigBrother
Guy is a douche but he didn't do anything in the game to warrant JagEx getting involved.
As far as Twitch... again, not a fan of allowing corporations to shut off people. Twitch is a platform like AT&T. I wouldn't want AT&T shutting down the service of some guy just because he is an asshole.
When we allow corporations to do this we lose our freedom.
That includes freedom to be an ass.
If he broke any law (which might actually have been done) he should be prosecuted, but all this self-righteous banning needs to stop.
I know many will differ and reply. In order to prevent this thread from getting shut down like every one before I will not respond. My point is simple. If the guy broke the law prosecute him. If not, and you dislike his actions, then don't watch him. I know I wouldn't. But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
I think you and I kinda figured out where each other are coming from on these topics in general via our PM convo recently.
I get your aversion to censorship of any form. With the connectivity of the internet, though, I have a sneaky suspicion he'd have enough folks think this is hilarious to not even notice the negative consequences you imply, as sad as that is to say.
I disagreed with Slapshot until I didn't. If it is that bad and isn't against the law. . make it against the law. I argue the other way as well. If we don't prosecute. . then why is it still against the law.
I do think that Twitch is a far cry from AT&T and would argue if someone used their cell phone to try to suggest someone kill themselves they would have the right to shut down that service. Isn't *not* allowing the company to do that making us the ultimate big brother? (terrible argument. . I know
I think the argument about Twitch is a different one than JagEx. So since this title was about JagEx that's what I focus on. I think there is somewhat more of a case to be made for Twitch. Not that I would agree necessarily but that is at least on somewhat firmer ground than JagEx.
The last thing I want is for companies to play moral police. If he broke a law, then he should get prosecuted. If he didn't, then it's damn scary that we would let a company play moral police because we agree the guy is an asshole. Someday (maybe even today!) someone might think I'm the asshole. Maybe even for defending the guy, and then Comcast pulls my service...
It's a bad road. I know people are trying to judge based on whether what the guy did was bad...it was. There is no arguing it. But bad and illegal are two different things and letting companies become the moral arbiters (for stuff not within their games) is a very dark road to start down.
(sorry.. I said I wouldn't debate it but I honestly love these conversations... I will do my best to have self-control for the rest of the night).
15 months jail for telling boyfriend to kill himself in texts.
Again, IF a law was broken then that should be prosecuted. That person “ had sent numerous text messages telling Roy to "just do it" and was on the cellphone with him during the suicide, at one point ordering him back into the truck when he got cold feet and exited to gasp for air.” I do not even think it’s in the same ballpark as this case, but that is why we have an actual justice system and not mob rule. Facts matter.
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Did he talk to that girl through the phone or he messaged her through the game? If it's the former, why the phone company did not terminate his subscription. If it's the former, why is the game's TOS relevant?
He's streaming in the runescape directory with runescape running in the background while he is doing this, thus the user content and content standards policy are applicable. What the phone company does is completely irrelevant to what happened to his game account or his actions, they have their own standards. This is completely on Jagex's user content rules, which because he's in that directory he has to uphold or they can terminate his account.
You are reverting back to my Netflix argument. Either he was acting in the game, which would make the ban justifiable, or he wasn't.
Let me put it this way, if there was no stream, would Runescape would be justified in their ban?
Nope .. if he wasnt streaming, noone would have linked his actions to Runescape in any way and Runescape had no ground to do anything against him (nor any reason)..
but he was. The moment you stream (Even when its just inactive on the background) and have viewers (Mostly watching for the specific game), you represent the game youre streaming and especialy streamers known for specific games have great influence over their viewers.
Runescape had no choice but to make an example out of him to make sure people wouldnt get the idea that it is acceptable to perform these kind of things while representing their game and broadcasting to (mostly) their players.
How can a streamer possibly represent the game he's streaming? There is zero entry barrier into streaming. Anybody can stream any game they like. Are you seriously arguing that a game, say WoW, should police all streamers because by the mere act of playing the game, they represent the company and it's values? And since anybody can stream, they must police their entire playerbase?
It's called brand association. Which is an alternative to false association.
People do associate, wrongly, things in a context that has no relation to said cause. It happens. That's why brands enforce so much about their vision.
We still live in a world with rampant racism, sexism and so on and most of those issues, if not all, were borne due false association that evolved to prejudice.
Just watch some news about anyone doing any kind of crime or act of violence wearing a sports team t-shirt and look how media tries to tie such detail to the sports scene or the team itself. If the media doesn't do that people will. Or you don't even need something that specific, just watch how race, religion, even diet restrictions sometimes, becomes the focus to associate the act to it.
To me, it's pretty clear. Twitch has some serious guidelines and they pull the plug in many famous partners. Again, partners. You are either a twitch streamer or a partner. You are not a streamer, you are a twitch streamer. There is no way to avoid such association due the platform have it's own brand and vision. It's not a neutral space where anything goes. It's Twitch. They own curse, which can link to Activision Blizzard IPs via links within the chat. They have so much influence in so many places that goes beyond false association and becomes brand synergy.
And that's what people are ignoring here, synergy.
But this discussion is clearly off-rails since people started just to reply very specific posts and ignore any other reasoning to their arguments.
Twitch already terminated his stream. The story should have ended there. This is not about twitch terminating his stream, rightly so. This is about a game:
not actively played during the incident
in the background
with noone interracting with the game
that banned him and now wants to make a newsstory out of it.
If anything and if the corporations would like to play moral police, the first one to do so should have been his phone company, which service was used directly in the incident. Then the power company, which provided the power for everything to work. How about the equipment he was using, like his PC, headphones etc. Or his furniture?
If you think the above is ridiculous, it's because it is. The whole package.
Deserved I guess, but damn a week without some decent game industry scandal and we get these dumb non-gaming non-news on the site. Activision, do something!
Pity drawing and quartering is no longer a thing. I kid, I kid but I guess a ban is good enough.
You know the part where he calls her and ask her if she remembered what he said knowing full well there is already a recoding of what he said. He then says " I didn't think so" or words to that effect. Is he trying to diminish his assholery by saying that it's okay because she did not remember?
Right,it was because he muted the mike. The problem is he broadcasted what he did, it is not a private conversation. Once you publish or broadcast something it is no longer protected.
(...) But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
behaving like an ashole in an online game. that is something wrong. jagex have house rights i'd guess.
if they don't want assholes in their community, that is their right i'd say
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
(...) But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
behaving like an ashole in an online game. that is something wrong. jagex have house rights i'd guess.
if they don't want assholes in their community, that is their right i'd say
the thing is, apparently he didn't do anything wrong INGAME to deserve a penalty. That's insane, what's up next, checking the criminal records of convicts to see what games/social platforms they'd had access to prior to committing their crimes?
I do not want to see any corporation playing moral police because it is not their job to do so and no corporation can be moral EVER. The context of what was said matters and requires. For Example I had a person in WOW during vanilla Demanding that I pass on the Draconian Deflector shield off the last boss in UBRS because he wanted it on his Paladin so he could tank. Everyone knows Paladins couldnt tank in Vanilla and I was a Prot Warrior the other Prot Warrior had better. He started using some colorful language and slurs towards me. I told him to fuck off and jump off a cliff and then blocked him. Should we both been banned? No that is just stupid as hell because shit gets said. If you ban me then you would have to ban over 50% of the player base because people say shit all the time. Look how often in Barren chat you get gay comments and disgusting things.
Ehhh
Not a fan of BigBrother
Guy is a douche but he didn't do anything in the game to warrant JagEx getting involved.
As far as Twitch... again, not a fan of allowing corporations to shut off people. Twitch is a platform like AT&T. I wouldn't want AT&T shutting down the service of some guy just because he is an asshole.
When we allow corporations to do this we lose our freedom.
That includes freedom to be an ass.
If he broke any law (which might actually have been done) he should be prosecuted, but all this self-righteous banning needs to stop.
I know many will differ and reply. In order to prevent this thread from getting shut down like every one before I will not respond. My point is simple. If the guy broke the law prosecute him. If not, and you dislike his actions, then don't watch him. I know I wouldn't. But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
6 pages + of everyone saying what we believe is right or wrong, why we should or should not be allowed to dictate are own actions, what is morally right or wrong, why we need freedom of speech or the government is going to rule us......
freedom of speech is not freedom to say whatever you want, that one the blind ignorant masses favorite crutch. don't agree ? try going to a airport and yell bomb few times randomly, go to a police station and say you like to rape kids randomly out load for laughs, go to a black community an say their favorite word they use to each other....
in everyone one those asinine examples i gave you could say i hurt nobody, it was a joke and wonder why anyone would try hurt you over " freedom of speech ". so if a company's name/brand is mix into negative press i will never fault them or anyone else for publicly denouncing what cause it and pulling away from said issue any way they can.
one of the things i often tell my family is " absolute freedom leads to chaos, just as absolute order leads to chaos, so their must be a balance of the two. " part of that balance is not saying/doing things that could harm others regardless of are opinions of said words/actions.
As for whether gaming is a privilege, that is one hilariously bad argument to make. Even F2P games need the non paying gamers, since they enhance the content of the paying ones. You are paying for the service (a status pushed by the game companies themselves), just like you're paying for your Netflix connection. Can you do without one? Sure. Because it's a luxury. You can afford not having it, while the game companies (as the recent BFV fiasco is an indication) cannot afford not to have players.
Just to address this here. Whether you call gaming a privilege or a luxury it comes down to the same thing really in the case of this discussion. Your going on about companies needing players while that is certainly true it does not support what you are saying, that it's a bad argument.
It doesn't matter if companies need players or not, it doesn't matter if you pay or not mmo's are services you sign up for period. You don't own the client or your account period. These are facts not opinions.
You say it's a bad PR move but then others would say it's an even worst PR move to do nothing if there's an outcry of disgust. Consider what Slapshot said earlier society is in a warrior justice/political correctness mode or trend so that supports this not being such a bad PR move.
They are in a kind of lose/lose situation.
The difference between privilege and luxury is huge.
Privilege implies that the game companies are doing us a favor to allow us to play. Which is a hilarious take, considering how many games fail to gain any traction and how many lose their relevance over time. They are all there to make money. And the more nefarious ones to make all the money, with gambling boxes, bad DLC practices and providing "services" instead of products.
To give you a different analogy, if there are five different bowling halls in your town and you have the free time and the money, you have the luxury of spending time in one. None of them are doing you any special favors by giving you access. There is no privilege associated by that access, unless they are barring the rest of the town when it's your turn to visit.
As for whether this is a bad PR move. Lets put aside for a second the fact that they publicly advertised that they will revoke your account for actions irrelevant to that account.
By their actions they implied that they are indirectly responsible for any reprehensible or illegal action performed while their game is open on the background. Is that a stupid take? Yes, it is. But that's a take the game company chose to make. So they are indeed in a lose lose situation of their own making.
As a last point, there is a huge push back against the pseudo religion of social justice in the same manner there was a push back against the evangelical moral police a few decades back. Game and other companies ignore the public distaste towards authoritarianism at their own peril.
No, it's a privilege in that it's a "special right" we are granted under certain conditions when we sign up for the game. Just like having a drivers license is a privilege accorded to us when we accept certain conditions (ie following the road laws) that we pay the government for.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
It's not like Jagex banned them from the entire internet, just from their game. If they believe they do not want such a person interacting within the community they created and support via the operation of their game, that's entirely within their rights.
They ain't raiding his house to take away his PC. Let's have some perspective.
Exactly this. People are blowing this the hell out of proportion with the slippery slope argument.
They have not proclaimed themselves the social/moral police, they are not taking anyone's unalienable rights away. They just decided they dont want this guy playing their game, money lost on their part be damned as they feel it goes against terms he agreed to when signing up to play their game.
Making a mountain out of a molehill is what it is.
Post edited by Asm0deus on
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
(...) But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
behaving like an ashole in an online game. that is something wrong. jagex have house rights i'd guess.
if they don't want assholes in their community, that is their right i'd say
Can you imagine how few players there would be in games, particularly PVP ones, if they banned everyone who behaved like an asshole or said something dodgy on Twitter etc. because newsflash, it would likely cripple the playerbases. Any company that takes that kind of a line though, frankly deserves to fail. Also, how people behave outside of a game is none of their business, the feeble excuses i've read so far have not changed my mind on that either.
How can a streamer possibly represent the game he's streaming? There is zero entry barrier into streaming. Anybody can stream any game they like. Are you seriously arguing that a game, say WoW, should police all streamers because by the mere act of playing the game, they represent the company and it's values? And since anybody can stream, they must police their entire playerbase?
No one is saying that companies should or that they even are "policing" anything. Like any game there is probably a report function and someone brought this to their attention, they looked at the situation and felt this warranted a ban as the agreement you made when you signed up allow them to.
Whether this hurts them or not is the long run is up to them to gamble on, and the word "policing" is kind of strong IMO.
Seems like a whole lots dooo000om the end is nigh.
Limnic is saying it better than me by far though I must admit.
Kind of ironic how a bunch of you want to tell companies how they should behave and what they can or cannot do to protect themselves from perceived threats, valid or not, when they have a legal right to do so according to sign up terms.
All based on some far fetched notion that they are policing our moral values or trying to tell us how WE should behave.
Think you guys have read 1984 one too many times...lol
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Ehhh
Not a fan of BigBrother
Guy is a douche but he didn't do anything in the game to warrant JagEx getting involved.
As far as Twitch... again, not a fan of allowing corporations to shut off people. Twitch is a platform like AT&T. I wouldn't want AT&T shutting down the service of some guy just because he is an asshole.
When we allow corporations to do this we lose our freedom.
That includes freedom to be an ass.
If he broke any law (which might actually have been done) he should be prosecuted, but all this self-righteous banning needs to stop.
I know many will differ and reply. In order to prevent this thread from getting shut down like every one before I will not respond. My point is simple. If the guy broke the law prosecute him. If not, and you dislike his actions, then don't watch him. I know I wouldn't. But banned from a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong? That's insanity.
6 pages + of everyone saying what we believe is right or wrong, why we should or should not be allowed to dictate are own actions, what is morally right or wrong, why we need freedom of speech or the government is going to rule us......
freedom of speech is not freedom to say whatever you want, that one the blind ignorant masses favorite crutch. don't agree ? try going to a airport and yell bomb few times randomly, go to a police station and say you like to rape kids randomly out load for laughs, go to a black community an say their favorite word they use to each other....
in everyone one those asinine examples i gave you could say i hurt nobody, it was a joke and wonder why anyone would try hurt you over " freedom of speech ". so if a company's name/brand is mix into negative press i will never fault them or anyone else for publicly denouncing what cause it and pulling away from said issue any way they can.
one of the things i often tell my family is " absolute freedom leads to chaos, just as absolute order leads to chaos, so their must be a balance of the two. " part of that balance is not saying/doing things that could harm others regardless of are opinions of said words/actions.
What you are talking about will cause people to get hurt. Yes Yelling fire in a crowded room is a problem and should be handed. Telling someone who is saying they are going to kill themselves to go kill themselves and blocking them is a very grey area and here is why. First off in a video game most people dont take other people seriously period. So Jagex is likely not talking the person seriously at all. Second someone who is suicidal needs to seek professional help, not be playing a video game because people in video game are going to get tied of your crying and not want to be around you. Third people trash talk up and down in video games all the time, yes some things need to be dealt with like calling someone the n word, or harassment.
Telling someone off, to kiss their ass, that they are a fagot, to jump off a cliff, go to hell, go f their mother, that their religion is pointless, chuck noris is gay, and so on happens so much in video games that you might as well ban everyone from every playing a game because this talk happens. While all this can be childish behavior for the most part. Corporations do not have the moral high ground to tell you or I how we should act period. Yes there are times that behavior needs to be given a suspension to get people to cool off, but to try to force morality on you NO it is not acceptable. Its like if I run a guild, I accept that people will say fuck or shit, or ass form time to time and I am OK with that. Now if the person uses these words every other word and what not yea they will not be in my guild long. First I am not playing moral police, I am asking them to be respectful. Second I allow for the occasional O Fuck I just missed the chain going to Molten Core now I have to run all the way back rez and fix my dam gear.
While there is need to suspend players, or in the case of running a guild to kick someone too often do corporations and people want to play I am Better than everyone else so I am the MORAL POLICE. Which is wrong on every level. Just like that the Gillette commercial trying to play Moral police and look how people are done buying Gillette products.
So no I dont believe Jagex should not have been ban. A week or 2 suspension I can accept that. That is saying hey you did take this a little too far into the grey area.
A more dystopian future i couldn't imagine, though these days i think some have taken the book 1984 as a reference point, rather than a warning.
Yet not only are we heading there. We seem to be eager to get there.
I agree and we just have to watch the Gillette commercial to show what garbage these companies have become. I do think Jagex did need a week suspension or something to say hey this was not the right thing to do. With that said no company should be the moral police.
15 months jail for telling boyfriend to kill himself in texts.
Again, IF a law was broken then that should be prosecuted. That person “ had sent numerous text messages telling Roy to "just do it" and was on the cellphone with him during the suicide, at one point ordering him back into the truck when he got cold feet and exited to gasp for air.” I do not even think it’s in the same ballpark as this case, but that is why we have an actual justice system and not mob rule. Facts matter.
What you are saying is a little silly here now.
You say if a law was broken then he should be prosecuted so I gather you agree we should follow the rule of law yet you want to deny the companies right, as allowed by rule of law, to protect itself as the terms you agreed to when signing up to play their game gives them.
The Rule of Law
The end of the law is, not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of laws, where there is no law there is no freedom. For liberty is to be free from restraint and violence from others; which cannot be where there is no law; and is not, as we are told, a liberty for every man to do what he lists (For who could be free when every other man’s humor might domineer over him?) But a liberty to dispose, and order as he lists, his person, actions, possessions, and his whole property, within the allowance of those laws under which he is, and therein not to be the subject of the arbitrary will of another, but freely follow his own.
JOHN LOCKE, Second Treatise
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
He makes his money off Twitch and RuneScape. He won the "Golden Gnome" award from Jagex for best new RuneScape streamer last year. He was streaming RuneScape while the incident in question occurred. As a company, would you really want to be associated with that? And let's stop with the 1984 false equivalence. He was willfully broadcasting himself on a platform that anyone with an internet connection can see. He wasn't being surveilled. He wasn't arrested and imprisoned for his actions. He was simply banned from the game and platform on which he was broadcasting himself while he made a poor decision.
I came across a crowd once gathered in front of a multi-story building. An old woman had crawled out on her window ledge and was contemplating suicide. Some people were yelling for her to jump. I was horrified. Luckily the police reached her in time.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Again. I think some clarity is needed. If this person had done something wrong IN GAME a TOS might come in to play. I notice nobody ever responded to the earlier post where the person asked why not have the phone company cut his service since he actually used the phone? Why not the power company shut him down since he used power for his computer?
Maybe he should get evicted! After all. You sign a lease and that land lord might not want to be associated with him.
Heck, maybe every food company and grocery store should deny him service so he can just shrivel up and die. Why should they have to transact with someone with such a low social score? Just seeing him go into their establishment might associate them with him!
Not because he broke any law, but because he was acting like an ass. And that is what you are missing from your John Locke snippet. Laws are in fact needed, just as Locke states. If you want to make what this guy did illegal. Go for it. That’s a different discussion.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I see a lot of ''these guys had the right to ban him because..." Because what he OWNS the game? He was streaming it in the back ground? They dont want a 'guy like this in their community'. So it would be OK for them to hack into his Steam account and ban him from every game he owns by that rationale.
The ONLY entity I see that has an argument to ban him would be twitch. I am sure he broke the ToS somewhere. Or maybe he didnt since he muted the mic no one knows what was said.
Twitch promotes RP and 'entertainers' and 'content creation' thats why they exist. But because this is a touchy subject and it had bad optics (hate that word) they jump right into action.
Like I said no one knows if the person was really suicidal, if the guy was being played/doxxed, or really anything. Is it entertaining to pick on weak people? Must be look at some of the TV shows that get the highest ratings. But since this is 'real life' (as opposed to reality {based} TV) it isnt allowed apparently. Its OK to have mature rated games with gutting and all manner of horrendous shit going on in the game itself. Its even OK for people to roleplay sadistic and twisted characters (up to the point of RP) which include some pretty heinous things. But somehow suicide is now a very taboo subject.
Sign of the times. Suicide used to have a stigma and a (religious/spiritual) consequence. With the erosion of core values and morals in society as a whole its on the rise. And as some studies show its the number two or three 'source' of teen deaths. Its not like kids havent thought about killing themselves since the beginning of humanity. It also isnt like mental health issues havent existed either. And one could say that the acceptance and openness of mental health issues is at an all time hjigh and getting more 'main stream'. So with all that why is it suicide is so prevalent? Rhetorical question because I already answered it.
Couple the desensitizing of morality and religion and add a dash of social media and a larger audience for people to get bullied or influenced along with the ever present maturing nature of being a teen and any legitimate mental health issues people have and thats what you get.
You will never change the outside influences now, cant put that genie back in the bottle. But getting back to core values and a better morality system (not based on flavor of the month ideology but ones that have existed for centuries) is a good first step. And you cant tell them or convince them after its too late. They have to have those values instilled in them from the beginning.
It goes beyond even suicide where I dont think a third of the kids coming up now even know the difference between 'right and wrong' at least on a large scale. Right and wrong are whatever the most people say it is these days. This thread which I am sure is composed of people who are surely more mature than teens shows that pretty plainly.
https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-teen-texting-suicide-20170803-story.html
15 months jail for telling boyfriend to kill himself in texts.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
- not actively played during the incident
- in the background
- with noone interracting with the game
that banned him and now wants to make a newsstory out of it.If anything and if the corporations would like to play moral police, the first one to do so should have been his phone company, which service was used directly in the incident. Then the power company, which provided the power for everything to work. How about the equipment he was using, like his PC, headphones etc. Or his furniture?
If you think the above is ridiculous, it's because it is. The whole package.
You know the part where he calls her and ask her if she remembered what he said knowing full well there is already a recoding of what he said. He then says " I didn't think so" or words to that effect. Is he trying to diminish his assholery by saying that it's okay because she did not remember?
Right,it was because he muted the mike. The problem is he broadcasted what he did, it is not a private conversation. Once you publish or broadcast something it is no longer protected.
behaving like an ashole in an online game. that is something wrong. jagex have house rights i'd guess.
if they don't want assholes in their community, that is their right i'd say
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
We just banning because he said kill yourself? Cause this is crazy common on twitch now-a-days.
freedom of speech is not freedom to say whatever you want, that one the blind ignorant masses favorite crutch. don't agree ? try going to a airport and yell bomb few times randomly, go to a police station and say you like to rape kids randomly out load for laughs, go to a black community an say their favorite word they use to each other....
in everyone one those asinine examples i gave you could say i hurt nobody, it was a joke and wonder why anyone would try hurt you over " freedom of speech ". so if a company's name/brand is mix into negative press i will never fault them or anyone else for publicly denouncing what cause it and pulling away from said issue any way they can.
one of the things i often tell my family is " absolute freedom leads to chaos, just as absolute order leads to chaos, so their must be a balance of the two. " part of that balance is not saying/doing things that could harm others regardless of are opinions of said words/actions.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Any company that takes that kind of a line though, frankly deserves to fail.
Also, how people behave outside of a game is none of their business, the feeble excuses i've read so far have not changed my mind on that either.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Telling someone off, to kiss their ass, that they are a fagot, to jump off a cliff, go to hell, go f their mother, that their religion is pointless, chuck noris is gay, and so on happens so much in video games that you might as well ban everyone from every playing a game because this talk happens. While all this can be childish behavior for the most part. Corporations do not have the moral high ground to tell you or I how we should act period. Yes there are times that behavior needs to be given a suspension to get people to cool off, but to try to force morality on you NO it is not acceptable. Its like if I run a guild, I accept that people will say fuck or shit, or ass form time to time and I am OK with that. Now if the person uses these words every other word and what not yea they will not be in my guild long. First I am not playing moral police, I am asking them to be respectful. Second I allow for the occasional O Fuck I just missed the chain going to Molten Core now I have to run all the way back rez and fix my dam gear.
While there is need to suspend players, or in the case of running a guild to kick someone too often do corporations and people want to play I am Better than everyone else so I am the MORAL POLICE. Which is wrong on every level. Just like that the Gillette commercial trying to play Moral police and look how people are done buying Gillette products.
So no I dont believe Jagex should not have been ban. A week or 2 suspension I can accept that. That is saying hey you did take this a little too far into the grey area.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Maybe he should get evicted! After all. You sign a lease and that land lord might not want to be associated with him.
Heck, maybe every food company and grocery store should deny him service so he can just shrivel up and die. Why should they have to transact with someone with such a low social score? Just seeing him go into their establishment might associate them with him!
Not because he broke any law, but because he was acting like an ass. And that is what you are missing from your John Locke snippet. Laws are in fact needed, just as Locke states. If you want to make what this guy did illegal. Go for it. That’s a different discussion.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018