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I hope this game appeals to casual players

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Comments

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Quizzical said:
    danwest58 said:
    Quizzical said:
    No one is arguing that the worst players need to fare just as well as the best.  But players who are substantially below average (whether in time spent, player skill, or whatever) need to be able to accomplish things and have fun.  Otherwise, they will get sick of the game and leave.  And then the players who used to be average then be below average among those who are left, and then they'll get sick of the game and leave, too.  And so on as this works its way upward until the game is dead.

    If substantially below average players aren't able to do anything other than die a lot, that's not fun.  If they're able to accomplish things, have fun, and be on the winning side in some sense a substantial fraction of the time in spite of dying twice as often as they kill someone else, that's fine.
    Yea but all too often the casuals that cry in these games are of the I play 15 minutes a week and dont have any other time to put into the game so it needs to cater to me type.  Which is why WOW is in the shape its in because they catered to the players who didnt want to put more than a very small amount of effort in.   The effort put in should equal the reward getting out of the game and yes if you only play 15 minutes a week you should be fodder for everyone else.  If you put effort into learning your role and work to get better you should achieve rewards based on that level of play.
    A lot is a matter of degree.  If the person who plays 15 minutes per week can't do much because he can't compete with the people who play an hour per week, oh well.  If the person who plays 20 hours per week has no hope of doing anything in that time other than getting slaughtered by the people who play 40 hours per week, the game is going to be dead on arrival.
    Yep I agree.  My stab is at the Casual players who want to put 0 effort in but get everything a skilled player that puts a ton of effort in.  For example lets talk about crafting because this game will have SWG like crafting  If a player does not want to spend the time needed to learn what mats are the best to make what sets of armor and weapons his shit shouldnt sell as good as player B that will put hours in of effort figuring out what mats make the best gear.   It comes down to Effort and too often people like the OP want to put 0 effort in and call themselves casuals and cry about not being better than people who put effort in.  They are not casuals they are just lazy players thats all they are.   

    Yes I agree a player that plays 20 hours a week should be able to compete with a player who plays 40 hours a week.  Now if it comes down to which is more skilled not which is more gear and that 40 hour a week player is just way more skilled then nothing we can do.    
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,011
    Thane said:
    sorry, but NO. just no.
    this game isn't meant for casual gamers.

    and we are allll happy about it.

    you want a casual game, there are enough out there.
    this one is for pvp players, and quite frankly, pvp IS NOT CASUAL.
    Lets rephrase this.  PVP is not for players who whine and cry that they are casual players but really dont want to put more effort into the game other than smashing 1 button the entire time for 15 minutes and crying that they suck.   PVP can be a casual schedule game which people enjoy when they have free time and are willing to put the effort into play their role in a team.  They might not be the greatest player however can play a very vital role that they master the skill at over time.   

    Like being a good crafter in this game is going to require effort.  Thinking you are going to grab a bunch of Iron and make the best stuff in game in a week and be rich is a pipe dream.  Only those crafters willing to figure out really good combos with their mats making very good gear will be the best crafters.   Everyone else that wants to do it as a past time will suck ass.  
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    danwest58 said:
    Like being a good crafter in this game is going to require effort.  Thinking you are going to grab a bunch of Iron and make the best stuff in game in a week and be rich is a pipe dream.  Only those crafters willing to figure out really good combos with their mats making very good gear will be the best crafters.   Everyone else that wants to do it as a past time will suck ass.  
    This is a pipe dream to be honest.

    Reality is, within a week after going Open Beta (maybe sooner) the best recopies and crafting methods will be mathed out and posted on game guides.

    Form there everyone will just copy/past the best combos and by the end of the month crafting will be homogenized across anyone that wanted to take that route.

    At that point, it all be a matter of a crafter getting funded by a guild to cut down on their personal materials cost to generate better profit margins allowing them to undercut their competitions.

    Given the games design, I wager by the time Crafters get into the higher end stuff, which will not be long at all, they will be having their guild help acquire the rare and most coveted materials in the game, which no doubt players will need to fight each other over.

    If you think you are going to sit at a forge and invent some super secret combo and become some legendary crafter of great renown, ... now THAT is a pipe dream.
    KajidourdenKyleranmeddyckYashaX
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Arterius said:
    Ungood said:
    Thane said:
    sorry, but NO. just no.
    this game isn't meant for casual gamers.

    and we are allll happy about it.

    you want a casual game, there are enough out there.
    this one is for pvp players, and quite frankly, pvp IS NOT CASUAL.
    Sure PvP is for casual players, just look at Fortnight, 80% of the population is casual players. 

    Just level the playing field, and make it a game of skill not grind, and casuals will be more then happy to kick your ass all over the place..
    I would still argue that Fortnite is not casual. You hear stories all the time about how addicting the game is for not just teenagers but adults too. I have a guy in my apartment who plays fortnite from the moment he gets up to the moment he goes to bed. Sure he has a physical disability so can't work but there are other games that he could play. I think with the amount of hours an average player probally spends playing Fortnite you would find that the game is not casual.

    I can't back this up with cold hard facts. So I am not going to pretend this is the truth or anything. Just how I look at things.
    If he is capable of playing Fortnite he is capable of many types of work. 

    That's how I look at things ;)
    Ungood

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,761
    Phry said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Thane said:
    sorry, but NO. just no.
    this game isn't meant for casual gamers.

    and we are allll happy about it.

    you want a casual game, there are enough out there.
    this one is for pvp players, and quite frankly, pvp IS NOT CASUAL.
    Sure PvP is for casual players, just look at Fortnight, 80% of the population is casual players. 

    Just level the playing field, and make it a game of skill not grind, and casuals will be more then happy to kick your ass all over the place..
    Or at least let you kick their ass all over the place because the believe they actually have a chance,  despite most evidence to the contrary. 
    True enough, its a bit like CS:GO, technically its a level playing field, but practice, experience and teamwork will usually win the match. ;)
    Real PvP games like that and Black Ops 4 have different modes and options for players of different skill levels and types. There's a pretty big difference between hardcore or ranked modes and the casual modes and matches. That's yet another big factor that separates real pvp games from mmorpg pvp games.

    Time put in does matter in those competitive games because being good takes practices. The different being, simply putting time in doesn't give you a power handicap to cover how bad you suck like it does in mmorpgs.
    UngoodYashaX
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • CicceroCiccero Member UncommonPosts: 171
    pure pvp game i doubt i will be going to that 1
    Yah, because the world needs 50 survival PVP games...

    These games built on that format are just too caustic for me. 
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,536
    IMO this is just a guy like you or me trying to survive in this world.I believe he might have a passion for gaming/design but i also believe he KNOWS he cannot deliver a passionate game design but only one that he hopes fits the budget and can pay him and his team a decent wage to survive.
    The early DAOC banter was imo a poor choice to try and hype up THIS game.You build a game and hype it based on merit and NOT on some past laurels.

    Unless some god from the heavens touches this game it will at least imo never be even a 5/10.It will be a world,yeah we seen a thousand of those before with trees and water and rocks and it will be pvp,yep seen that b4 a thousand times as well.

    If people THINK they need yet another game like this with a different skin,then all the power to you...enjoy.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,098
    Ungood said:
    danwest58 said:
    Like being a good crafter in this game is going to require effort.  Thinking you are going to grab a bunch of Iron and make the best stuff in game in a week and be rich is a pipe dream.  Only those crafters willing to figure out really good combos with their mats making very good gear will be the best crafters.   Everyone else that wants to do it as a past time will suck ass.  
    This is a pipe dream to be honest.

    Reality is, within a week after going Open Beta (maybe sooner) the best recopies and crafting methods will be mathed out and posted on game guides.

    Form there everyone will just copy/past the best combos and by the end of the month crafting will be homogenized across anyone that wanted to take that route.

    At that point, it all be a matter of a crafter getting funded by a guild to cut down on their personal materials cost to generate better profit margins allowing them to undercut their competitions.

    Given the games design, I wager by the time Crafters get into the higher end stuff, which will not be long at all, they will be having their guild help acquire the rare and most coveted materials in the game, which no doubt players will need to fight each other over.

    If you think you are going to sit at a forge and invent some super secret combo and become some legendary crafter of great renown, ... now THAT is a pipe dream.
    That all depends on how it is designed.  Several of the crafting mechanics in A Tale in the Desert made it so that you couldn't just copy/paste a formula and make the best stuff.  You can have per-player variance in the effects of crafting formulas.  You can have a skill of the player component to crafting.  You can make it so that the thing that you need to craft varies so wildly that there's no hope of just having a formula for everything.

    I don't know if Camelot Unchained will do any of those things.  But that they've been done in the past proves that it's possible.  If it's a straightforward situation of, this is the best thing to craft, and if you get this list of materials and push a button, you're done, then yeah, that's going to be terrible.
    ScotLokerotweedledumb99
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Wizardry said:
    IMO this is just a guy like you or me trying to survive in this world.I believe he might have a passion for gaming/design but i also believe he KNOWS he cannot deliver a passionate game design but only one that he hopes fits the budget and can pay him and his team a decent wage to survive.
    The early DAOC banter was imo a poor choice to try and hype up THIS game.You build a game and hype it based on merit and NOT on some past laurels.

    Unless some god from the heavens touches this game it will at least imo never be even a 5/10.It will be a world,yeah we seen a thousand of those before with trees and water and rocks and it will be pvp,yep seen that b4 a thousand times as well.

    If people THINK they need yet another game like this with a different skin,then all the power to you...enjoy.
    How are so many of your comments like this? Add almost nothing lol?
    KyleranAlmostLancelot
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,446
    danwest58 said:
    Thane said:
    sorry, but NO. just no.
    this game isn't meant for casual gamers.

    and we are allll happy about it.

    you want a casual game, there are enough out there.
    this one is for pvp players, and quite frankly, pvp IS NOT CASUAL.
    Lets rephrase this.  PVP is not for players who whine and cry that they are casual players but really dont want to put more effort into the game other than smashing 1 button the entire time for 15 minutes and crying that they suck.   PVP can be a casual schedule game which people enjoy when they have free time and are willing to put the effort into play their role in a team.  They might not be the greatest player however can play a very vital role that they master the skill at over time.   

    Like being a good crafter in this game is going to require effort.  Thinking you are going to grab a bunch of Iron and make the best stuff in game in a week and be rich is a pipe dream.  Only those crafters willing to figure out really good combos with their mats making very good gear will be the best crafters.   Everyone else that wants to do it as a past time will suck ass.  
    valid point, made all casuals pve players here, wasn't my intention :)

    if you are a casual pvp player, it can aply to you. ofc, my bad. you will surely enjoy it more when spending some time tho =) 

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • LerxstLerxst Member UncommonPosts: 646
    I think you need to define what a "casual" gamer is. Are you talking about 10 minutes a day, like a Facebook gamer, or do you mean 1-2 hours a day, like an adult-gamer with a full time job?

    If you can't tell, I'm the latter. I love the concept of MMORPGs and played them for over 20 years now (hard to believe UO was the far back). Am I going to let a game get in the way of my professional career/life? No. Does it mean that I don't want to play it though? No.

    DAoC was a great PvP style game because it was RvR... essentially a Team Death Match, with built in teams where "zerg" guilds huge groups of friends online 24/7, didn't matter as much since you had half of the teams already built into the game mechanic. Since everyone had the safety net of their realm to fall back on, it didn't matter if you played for 8 hours, or 1 hour a day, you'd still gain some benefit from the realm overall.

    I see a lot of people commenting about "skill" and "hardcore" in terms of PvP, but get a sense that those players either didn't play the original DAoC, or forgot what the game play was like, if they did. The core game was one that actually welcomed a more casual play style; you could re-roll characters dozens of times over and not suffer in the long-term. You could go for a week without playing and not feel like you were hopelessly behind since your success as a realm could help carry you along.

    So, should a 15 minute/day gamer be rewarded with equal footing in the game world as everyone with more time? There are already plenty of games that cater to that out there, no need for them to play this one. But a gamer willing to put money down and spend 5-10 hours a week in the game world should still be able to have some enjoyment from playing.

    I'm thinking, that was the OP's concern... because, quite frankly, I don't see the "very casual" gamers being ones who put money down on this game to begin with.
    Scot
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    I think its a matter of how hard you are willing to work at it, if a casual player can only put in 2 or 3 hours a week, then fine, but if you can put in more time then its like anything you put effort into, i play a fair amount of CS:GO, i am not great at it, but i know that if i were able to put more time into playing it, that my gameplay would improve, in the past i have done that and it does work but i do enjoy playing the game even though my K/D ratio is not great, so while i have no problems with casuals, i consider myself to be one mostly, i think most should by now understand that the more time you put into a game, the stronger you become, whether its from levels, equipment or just personal experience, which is valuable in its own right, either way the effort is more often than not, rewarded.
    I don't have a problem with dedicated players being able to defeat casual players with ease, because they have worked hard for it, i do however have a problem with new or casual players demanding an equality of outcome without regard for inidividual effort. :/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,368
    What if a studio built a niche game that didn't require 15 million players for the game to survive?


    tweedledumb99
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
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