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Chronicles of Elyria: Wherefore Art Thou? - MMORPG.com

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,591
    edited January 17
    I think there is a middle ground to be struck. Having a fanboy write the review often leads to disproportinately glowing praise. (Though I will say that this effect is overstated, as some of the harshest and most accurate criticisms often come from dedicated fans). 

    However, if you get people who don't like or don't know about a game/series to talk about or review an upcoming release, you get a downright embarassing situation in which those involved have no idea what they're talking about.

    Just look at IGN's cringeworthy video discussion on the upcoming Fire Emblem 3 Houses. Only one person at the table was a Fire Emblem fan with any knowledge of the series, and the result was a straight up nonsensical collection of blunders and factual inaccuracies that gave a public black eye to an incredible looking game. (For fuck's sake, one of them said that they had played the mobile game on 3DS.)
    Ungood
  • InteritusInteritus Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Dakeru said:
    My take on kickstarter is this:

    Why gamble on something that may come to fruition when you can just wait for the stuff that actually comes to fruition. The benefit of KS a game is not worth the gamble in my opinion. 
    If the game can only come to fruition with Kickstarter? After all this is the real benefit of Kickstarter... not the rewards. 
    There has never been a MMO on kickstarter that acually released.
    What about SOTA or Elite Dangerous?
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,292
    edited January 17
    Scot said:
    I am not sure we should have articles about indie games from those who back them. Is it possible to detach yourself from the money you have put in? Either hoping for success in the early days or despairing you will ever see a game as the years go by.

    Also I think it might be good for the health of those who write gaming articles not to be put in this position, life has enough drama without buying into it. :)
    Humans are capable of far greater mental abilities than having to detach themselves from the money they put into something. Objectivity isn't hard, you just turn off your emotions and look at the facts alone. You write your piece directly referencing them and draw conclusions based upon them. 

    But your question is flawed in one major way, you assume I wasn't hired as a backer, to write about games from that point of view. You see I've never hidden which games I backed, despite the fact I easily could have. I've been open about them because I write from the perspective of an embedded reporter observing the crowd funded game development as it transpires. 

    Now, would I review a game I covered for several years while embedded? Yes, BUT, I would note at the top of the review my past experiences and relationship with the game which should be taken into account.

    Looking at how small our niche is, it would be hard to find a writer that didn't have some exposure to a game. If you wanted a truly unobjective review I suppose you would have to grab a non gamer, make them play a game, then have them write up their review. Maybe grab a gamer that has never played a MMORPG? 

    Do I want all MMORPGs to do well? Yes. Would that sway my opinion on a review of a finished product? Possibly but I would take all possible steps to be fact based, not emotion based. This world needs more facts. 
    IselinGdemamiWellspringSlapshot1188mklinicOzmodan
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Interitus said:
    Dakeru said:
    My take on kickstarter is this:

    Why gamble on something that may come to fruition when you can just wait for the stuff that actually comes to fruition. The benefit of KS a game is not worth the gamble in my opinion. 
    If the game can only come to fruition with Kickstarter? After all this is the real benefit of Kickstarter... not the rewards. 
    There has never been a MMO on kickstarter that acually released.
    What about SOTA or Elite Dangerous?
    Sota...
    Harbinger of Fools
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 17
    My take on kickstarter is this:

    Why gamble on something that may come to fruition when you can just wait for the stuff that actually comes to fruition. The benefit of KS a game is not worth the gamble in my opinion. 
    If the game can only come to fruition with Kickstarter? After all this is the real benefit of Kickstarter... not the rewards. 
    No, the rewards are why the gamers throw the cash all willy nilly, let's not fool ourselves.

    If devs didn't have to do or offer anything to entice them to fund the project, they wouldn't.
    IselinSlapshot1188GdemamiTorval

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,780
    edited January 17
    My take on kickstarter is this:

    Why gamble on something that may come to fruition when you can just wait for the stuff that actually comes to fruition. The benefit of KS a game is not worth the gamble in my opinion. 
    If the game can only come to fruition with Kickstarter? After all this is the real benefit of Kickstarter... not the rewards. 
    No, the rewards are why the gamers throw the cash all willy nilly, let's not fool ourselves.

    If devs didn't have to do or offer anything to entice them to fund the project, they wouldn't.
    Indeed. A lot of the lower tier rewards for KS games (many of the single player variety that have actually released) are actually good deals where you actually get the game cheaper. It's actually pretty standard and where the bulk of the "donations" happen.
    MadFrenchieGdemamiTorval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • ManWithNoTanManWithNoTan Member UncommonPosts: 93
    I never was very interested in this game concept. Pay money for another life? Haven't done that since I was at the nickle-arcade as a kid.
    MadFrenchiePhaserlightOzmodan
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,292
    I never was very interested in this game concept. Pay money for another life? Haven't done that since I was at the nickle-arcade as a kid.
    When you clarify it with that kind of example...I suppose we shouldn't be overly surprised that they are selling coins for community events. 
    MadFrenchie
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • simon155simon155 Member UncommonPosts: 53
    Personally I've watched the development of many MMOs including titles such as Star Citizen. The latter sadly was rushed and despite massive funding, on my last encounter, dismally failed to meet expectations. One day it may well get there, but it is a classic example of what happens when you rush something without attention to detail.

    When it comes to Chronicles of Elyria, it's far from being the same picture. I can safely say of all the dev projects I've followed of this type, they are leagues ahead. The degree of transparency is very high. We get routine updates, and often game content. This has spanned everything from screenies, videos, media, design, new assets and even (if you've been to the games con events) playable demos that have been very well polished. They routinely engage with the community allowing us to take part in events which shape the state of the world, from the level of plague influence to certain biomes, technological developments and more. The community is already having an effect on the world of Elyria as the game shapes out, even resulting in community picked world maps (massive as they are). They regularly talk with the community and if you ask anyone in the discords etc they will confirm the last description they would use would be "shouting down" users.

    Inevitably with any development there are hurdles. Thankfully, unlike some companies who would respond with rushing out something that failed dismally to meet our expectations (as so many have), the Soulbound team have overcome and excelled, dodging many issues that may come to plague other development companies. Their design is both refreshing and exciting, something that will most assuredly shake up the games market.

    It is quite accurate to say they have had events intended to raise cash. However, as a crowd funding game, I believe that is true for ALL such companies. that's how they fund the development. Like ALL other such projects, they don't offer refunds, nor could I expect them to. Quite rightly, funding is committed to development, and that's exactly where they invest it. What they are showing consistently is superb progress and what is fast shaping up to be an amazing game.

    There are with all such things the occasional shout of "pay to win". Well, for anyone who doesn't like "whales", I have some FANTASTIC news for you, and your'e going to love this. Unlike some titles, where those goods (and there is just a limited pool to date) offer permanent rewards, in Elyria it does not. In Elyria, it can ALL be lost. That's right. You can club together with your mates, target a RL whale and steal it all. Sure it'll make you criminals, and there is a justice system, but it'll make the world a more exciting place, both for the criminals and those who like to hunt criminals down. Call it a battle of wits or a challenge to build a robber baron's empire. Players do expire - indeed some look at Elyria and plot to overthrow or steal. Others like me plan to build a craft or community.

    The depth and style of Elyria is unlike any other to date, and as you play, you'll quite literally be able to see your character age throughout that time, until he or she eventually passes on, and your soul moves to its next host. Perhaps an heir you left your will to. Perhaps a new life entirely. That choice is yours.

    Ultimately, I can feel the frustration of the writer in his closing remarks - he's simply desperate to play it. That much is understandable - we all are, but we recognise that this level of quality does take time, but it is getting there and we're all anticipating it.

    Catch anyone in the community or drop Oracle a note in game mail if you've any questions, but by all means for now just follow the game and watch.
    kjempffSlapshot1188LokeroWellspringInteritusGdemamiOzmodan
  • simon155simon155 Member UncommonPosts: 53
    I should also add for those commenting on the permadeath and aging as being a poor design, I believe the ENTIRE community who have been funding it have been well aware of that fact from the outset, and we all like it. It's different. It's cool. Anyone who has backed it then moaned about it quite frankly is too stupid to be listened to and can't be seen a a credible source if they can't be bothered to read.
    Gdemami
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,897
    One day (hopefully), Soulbound will produce an actual game !

    Until then, we'll have to make do with their "transparent communication", which describes in great detail what they intend to do....

    Don't be alarmed by the radical shifts in development strategy. We are assured by people who claim to have "NDA access" that everything is progressing !

    Sure, Soulbound Studios has laid off a few team members already, but that doesn't mean they can't deliver at all... They just need to keep selling digital assets at a steady pace to keep the remaining team members afloat !

    Hope dies last...
    MendelCryomatrix
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,617
    Iselin said:
    Scot said:
    I am not sure we should have articles about indie games from those who back them. Is it possible to detach yourself from the money you have put in? Either hoping for success in the early days or despairing you will ever see a game as the years go by.

    Also I think it might be good for the health of those who write gaming articles not to be put in this position, life has enough drama without buying into it. :)
    What next? No reviews of released games from those who have actually bought and played the game?
    Well we certainly get our share of opinions from posters who have never played some of these games, (including yours truly) so why not the reviewers.

    ;)
    Torval

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,626
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    kjempff said:
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



    It's not an investment, either.
    MendelIselin

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,780
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Scot said:
    I am not sure we should have articles about indie games from those who back them. Is it possible to detach yourself from the money you have put in? Either hoping for success in the early days or despairing you will ever see a game as the years go by.

    Also I think it might be good for the health of those who write gaming articles not to be put in this position, life has enough drama without buying into it. :)
    What next? No reviews of released games from those who have actually bought and played the game?
    Well we certainly get our share of opinions from posters who have never played some of these games, (including yours truly) so why not the reviewers.

    ;)
    Commonly referred to as "talking out your ass." :)

    It's quite the thing these days. Why, you can even get elected to the highest offices doing just that.
    YashaX
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,780
    kjempff said:
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



    It's not an investment, either.
    But it should be. Crowdfunding where backers get a piece of the action, a % share, would make a lot of sense as shared risk with possible rewards. 

    What we have instead is panhandling elevated to an art form... no scratch that, it has much more in common with fringe religions than art :)
    MendelKyleranMadFrenchie
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,533
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Scot said:
    I am not sure we should have articles about indie games from those who back them. Is it possible to detach yourself from the money you have put in? Either hoping for success in the early days or despairing you will ever see a game as the years go by.

    Also I think it might be good for the health of those who write gaming articles not to be put in this position, life has enough drama without buying into it. :)
    What next? No reviews of released games from those who have actually bought and played the game?
    Well we certainly get our share of opinions from posters who have never played some of these games, (including yours truly) so why not the reviewers.

    ;)
    That's how I've always felt about it. I think "objectivity" is just forced majority consensus in many cases, and ironic considering we subjectively filtering everything. If someone is honest about what they like, explain their perspective, reveal their associations (if any), then I'll probably find the review informative in some way. Just be real and tell me what you thought about the game and why. I don't really care about credentials or titles or whatever.
    Gdemami
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,956
    kjempff said:
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



    It is money that was given based on information provided by the company.  In this instance, a HUGE amount of what the customer was told has proven to be incorrect.  Some examples: The timeline, the technology (SpatialOS), the future funding (coming from investors/publishers), The Prologue, ElyriaMud, VoxElyria... etc... etc...

    So it's a 2 way street.  Just because you raise money via crowdfunding does not IMHO absolve you of basic decency and if you do not do what YOU said you would do it's quite hypocritical to expect the customer to do what they said and not get their money back.


    KyleranWellspring

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,956
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Scot said:
    I am not sure we should have articles about indie games from those who back them. Is it possible to detach yourself from the money you have put in? Either hoping for success in the early days or despairing you will ever see a game as the years go by.

    Also I think it might be good for the health of those who write gaming articles not to be put in this position, life has enough drama without buying into it. :)
    What next? No reviews of released games from those who have actually bought and played the game?
    Well we certainly get our share of opinions from posters who have never played some of these games, (including yours truly) so why not the reviewers.

    ;)
    It's CoE... so technically NOBODY has ever played it...


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,972
    Iselin said:
    kjempff said:
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



    It's not an investment, either.
    But it should be. Crowdfunding where backers get a piece of the action, a % share, would make a lot of sense as shared risk with possible rewards. 

    What we have instead is panhandling elevated to an art form... no scratch that, it has much more in common with fringe religions than art :)
    But it is. The word investment can be used in other ways and is often used to mean getting an advantage, a positive outcome, a desired effect.

    That's what is meant by this type of investment. It's not always to get back a financial result.





  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,971
    Just checked the CoE forums, someone posted the full text of Tim's article there. Already 4 pages of responses. https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30270/mmorpgcom-chronicles-of-elyria-wherefore-art-thou?page=1#31
    DakeruSlapshot1188Ozmodan
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,492
    simon155 said:
    I should also add for those commenting on the permadeath and aging as being a poor design, I believe the ENTIRE community who have been funding it have been well aware of that fact from the outset, and we all like it. It's different. It's cool. Anyone who has backed it then moaned about it quite frankly is too stupid to be listened to and can't be seen a a credible source if they can't be bothered to read.
    Even though I think the entire project has been a laughable "in over our heads" disaster, thus far, the permadeath is one of the things with which I actually don't take issue.

    The issue with their permadeath system is tying their business/payment model to it.  "Insert coin to continue" is a pretty bad business decision.
    When you combine character loss with property loss, etc., and then tell people to pay for lives around the same moment, that's just a recipe for failure.

    I think that a great many people would just say "screw it" and walk away, especially if they are the types who get angry when they lose(and let's face it, that's a large number of people).
    Slapshot1188parrotpholkSabracGdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,617
    Here is the thing, my guess is few expected them to hit the original or revised release dates, most of us do understand MMORPGs take a lot of money and time to create even if Jeremy didn't. 

    It is quite concerning Soulbound discarded several design approaches (VoxElyria,  Elyriamud), core systems (SpatialOS), developed code / demos (jousting, sword fighting), completely missing the deadlines for at least 3 major development milestones in 2018.

    About the only milestones they hit consistently (map voting, server selection, plague lore event) were those they could "weaponize' into fund raising activities. 

    Yet here we are at the start of 2019 and so far almost no evidence which anyone can point to in terms of actual game development, outside of status reports like "0.5" is progressing, much good  very wow.

    There is almost no other MMO crowd funded effort out there which has collected so much, yet delivered so little.

    I can't see a way for this to end well without some drastic turn of events. 

    Perhaps they can find a Chinese mega publisher to create a mobile version, might be the only chance fans of Elyria have in ever seeing an actual game. 


    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Sovrath said:
    Iselin said:
    kjempff said:
    kjempff said:

    Then there is the money issue. Afaik they were always upfront about the crowdfunding was to get the project started (correct me if you know otherwise), and that it would need outside investors to "finish" the project. 
    For the record they never mentioned this on their Kickstarter main page.As a matter of fact they had stretch goals like adding Mounted Combat etc...

    Also related:
    Massively OP: The sticking points seem to be the Kickstarter FAQ line that states, “The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project” and the fact that COE’s Kickstarter verbiage itself doesn’t appear to mention that the $900K sought wasn’t the full amount (it’s buried in the 8000+ comments)

    He also said $1.2M gets a core game and Alpha 1 yet here we sit within over $5M raised and not there yet.

    He also said “it’s our intention that all of it be covered by investors, or at least, not players.“ Which obviously didn’t happen.

    He also said that closing refunds at the same time they announced this was and I quote “ I want to say it was a complete coincidence that we announced our refund policy going forward in the same update where we evidently made people aware we’re still looking for money from investors, etc.”

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/


    So yeah... I kind of disagree that they were even close to upfront.

    Thanks. I haven't been following that closely, so you are probably correct.
    Though, "completing" a project does not necessarily mean the final product, it could mean a vertical slice which is a game dev term defining a working game showing of a core concept - Again I have not followed CoE closely, so I don't know the wording used in the ks or if that core game has been delivered to backers or is close to.

    On a side note, I find the whole refund thing and backers entitlement on a crowdfunded game to be a misunderstanding. If you crowdfunded something you did not buy anything, you either donated or invested and at that point the money is no longer yours. The receiver is only required to spend that money as advertised and to the best of their ability, but there is no guarantee of success implied not for the entire project neither for completion of stretch goals. It is an investment, not a purchase.



    It's not an investment, either.
    But it should be. Crowdfunding where backers get a piece of the action, a % share, would make a lot of sense as shared risk with possible rewards. 

    What we have instead is panhandling elevated to an art form... no scratch that, it has much more in common with fringe religions than art :)
    But it is. The word investment can be used in other ways and is often used to mean getting an advantage, a positive outcome, a desired effect.

    That's what is meant by this type of investment. It's not always to get back a financial result.


    It's an investment in the same way putting gas in my car is an "investment" into my future personal mobility.
    KyleranGdemami

    image
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Forgrimm said:
    Just checked the CoE forums, someone posted the full text of Tim's article there. Already 4 pages of responses. https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30270/mmorpgcom-chronicles-of-elyria-wherefore-art-thou?page=1#31
    Look a lot of people who paid alot of money to have land and title defending this mess and keeping the faith that their money was not spent in vain so they can rule over a virtual plot of land.  Who woulda thunk it!

    Sorry guys but apparently we just do not have enough experience in alpha / prealpha to get it according to several.  
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