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Chronicles of Elyria: Wherefore Art Thou? - MMORPG.com

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,436
    edited January 16

    Dakeru said:

    I never thought Tim could write an article where he bluntly points and puts his finger into the wound.

    You have gained a lot of my respect.

    Someone hand that man a harbinger robe!



    @slapshot and I have been furiously sewing new ones for the upcoming flood of applicants we are anticipating.

    It would go a whole lot faster if I had opposable thumbs, lucky simians.

    ;)
    DakeruMadFrenchieTimEisentweedledumb99ChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekko

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,515
    Nice article.

    I rarely use the term vaporware but I think it fits here with this title. It was always going to be a challenge to pull off the design of this game and make it enjoyable. Selling titles and kingdoms basically will kill it for many. There will be no peasants in this game as what exactly is the draw since people already bought their way to the most powerful positions. I do not believe they have the know how or the budget to pull this off in its original design.
    bigmilkKyleranTimEisentweedledumb99ChildoftheShadows
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,162
    I fail to imagine a sustainable business model where-in your whales, the lifeblood of your game, see thousands of digital purchases go up in flames and don’t rage quit. MMORPGers have long quit games for far, far less.

    Exactly.

    This has been my concern about this and for that matter, most other donation-tiered KS MMORPG projects.

    "It's not a permanent advantage. They can loose it all" flies in the face of how players have behaved in actual real playable games forever. It's either a lie or it's one of the dumbest and most unsustainable business models ever imagined. I suspect it's a lie.


    parrotpholkMadFrenchieTimEisentweedledumb99GdemamibcbullySabracChildoftheShadowsEponyxDamor
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,436
    edited January 16
    Iselin said:
    I fail to imagine a sustainable business model where-in your whales, the lifeblood of your game, see thousands of digital purchases go up in flames and don’t rage quit. MMORPGers have long quit games for far, far less.

    Exactly.

    This has been my concern about this and for that matter, most other donation-tiered KS MMORPG projects.

    "It's not a permanent advantage. They can loose it all" flies in the face of how players have behaved in actual real playable games forever. It's either a lie or it's one of the dumbest and most unsustainable business models ever imagined. I suspect it's a lie.


    I'd go with the naivativaty Jeremy has shown over the years about human (and gamer) behavior, especially with this competitive world he's promised to create. 


    He has been repeatedly been surprised by the questionable behavior of some COE backers, even at the highest tiers.

    They just refuse respond the way he believes they should.

    Games would be so much easier to make if one didn't have to create them for gamers.

    ;)


    TimEisentweedledumb99GdemamiChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekko

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • sirfrog0sirfrog0 Member UncommonPosts: 4
    edited January 16
    Considering the soul system, I'd say the game is already fairly pay to win. They either make a roguelike that forces a clean slate, or they allow progress to roll over to your next life regardless of how fat or thin your wallet is.

    No one should be able to buy that kind of advantage.
    GdemamiYashaX
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290

    Kyleran said:



    Dakeru said:


    I never thought Tim could write an article where he bluntly points and puts his finger into the wound.

    You have gained a lot of my respect.

    Someone hand that man a harbinger robe!






    @slapshot and I have been furiously sewing new ones for the upcoming flood of applicants we are anticipating.

    It would go a whole lot faster if I had opposable thumbs, lucky simians.



    ;)



    I can't stress enough how important the work of MMORPGers like you two is.
    tweedledumb99GdemamiChildoftheShadowsYashaX
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,561
    @timeisen Wow... I don’t know whether to stand and applaud you or cry that they have driven all Hope from even you.

    To me it always comes down to a few simple things. Say what you mean. Do what you say you will do in roughly the time you say you will do it.

    It’s fine for a developer to talk the talk and push back on detractors. But then they better walk the walk and do what they said.

    Simply pulling Caspiens own words and then comparing them to reality should be all anyone needs to know about this project. From the silly timelines, to SpatialOS being what would enable all their lofty promises, to ElyriaMUD, to VoxElyria... to the Prelude... on and on and on there has been a massive deficiency in delivering.

    As I said in a recent thread comparing his Jan 2018 State of Elyria to what really was delivered last year, it’s easy to waste other people’s money.

    I still think it would make an interesting column for you to take the statements from the various Kickstarter MMORPGs from a year ago and compare them to reality today.


    WellspringGdemamiChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekko

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PuptwilightPuptwilight Member CommonPosts: 3

    Amathe said:

    I knew this game was headed off the rails when they said there would be permadeath. 



    Wut? Did you read up how this would work? No? Okay....
    KyleranAeandertweedledumb99mmolouYashaXTekkon
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,352
    As a long time gamer and since writing software is my profession, I knew the project was in trouble years ago when they kept adding feature after feature.  The term feature creep is a real killer when it comes to any software project whether it be games or business and this game had it in spades.  

    I still thought they would eventually put out some kind of game, but the longer we wait with a distinct lack of any progress being shown, the game really deserves the vaporware label.

    I don't feel sorry for people that still throw money at it, some just don't know when to quit.  If it is not obvious to you now that the money is not generating much for youf investment, don't come crying on this forum.   
    GdemamiChildoftheShadowsYashaXManWithNoTan
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,436

    Amathe said:

    I knew this game was headed off the rails when they said there would be permadeath. 



    Wut? Did you read up how this would work? No? Okay....
    Awesome, when everything else being brought up is indefensible you zero in on one totally inane comment to reply to.

    :D
    tweedledumb99ChildoftheShadowsYashaX

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LethallinLethallin Member CommonPosts: 1
    I hope this game comes out permadeath sounds like a real challenge that I'm looking forward to instead of all the whiners complaining about perma death I look forward to killing people and knowing they might be actually dead and the thought of perma dying myself is gonna be intense If this game does come out I'm gonna play the hell outta it
    AeanderparrotpholkUngoodChildoftheShadowsYashaXSpottyGekko
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,792
    Kyleran said:

    Amathe said:

    I knew this game was headed off the rails when they said there would be permadeath. 



    Wut? Did you read up how this would work? No? Okay....
    Awesome, when everything else being brought up is indefensible you zero in on one totally inane comment to reply to.

    :D
    To be fair, it was never going to hit the rails in the first place and sure wouldn't have stayed there long enough to be derailed by an insane PD mechanic. Amathe was just being kind even implying it would last that long. :lol:
    ChildoftheShadows
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,515
    Lethallin said:
    I hope this game comes out permadeath sounds like a real challenge that I'm looking forward to instead of all the whiners complaining about perma death I look forward to killing people and knowing they might be actually dead and the thought of perma dying myself is gonna be intense If this game does come out I'm gonna play the hell outta it
    Permadeath is not a challenge it is an annoyance and the longer you live, the more it will hurt.  The amount of keyboards broken and holes in the wall from mice thrown against the wall would be awesome youtube material but lets not kid ourselves to think it is a fun mechanic because you will die, lose all your stuff, and you will be pissed and likely quit.
    KyleranAeandertweedledumb99UngoodGdemamiChildoftheShadowsYashaX
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,436
    Lethallin said:
    I hope this game comes out permadeath sounds like a real challenge that I'm looking forward to instead of all the whiners complaining about perma death I look forward to killing people and knowing they might be actually dead and the thought of perma dying myself is gonna be intense If this game does come out I'm gonna play the hell outta it
    Let me be the first to welcome you to the forums, we're glad you are here.
    ChildoftheShadows

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member UncommonPosts: 168
    I backed the Repopulation before the Engine drama and have the same feeling of regret. It was the first “Early Access” game I purchased and will definitely be the last.
    ChildoftheShadows
  • mercstermercster Member UncommonPosts: 21
    To sum up:

    Idea came up 2-3 years ago, dev dude thinks he has the system for the PERFECT MMORPG! Includes a lot of whales buying kingdoms, and they all say "But it's cool 'cuz some people will want to be peasants, they'll be doing fun stuff while us poor schlubs are running a kingdom!" I've never heard quite so much delusion, so early on in a project.

    Year(s) go buy of book-length theory-crafting posts from dev.

    Were gonna use SpatialOS, it was the backbone of everything; now not. Can only imagine the amount of thought and experience is going into these decisions.

    First version of game: web-based tactical kingdom simulator! Oh, and a text based MUD on the side to "test stuff."

    Months go by, more tl;dr masturbatory theory-crafting from game development savant.

    New idea: first version will be voxel-based! Minecraft with our huge complex pay-to-dominate backend!

    Mostly silence for half a year with occasional outbursts of "things are complicated..."

    I never bought in, not for a dime. I was part of another sinking ship (SotA, I'm not immune) but heard about some people telling me this was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. I read the concept and developer diaries, and could tell from the general tone of the dev and community that this would never, ever be a successful MMORPG.

    Sorry to anyone who "donated"! EDIT: Donated for multiple hundreds/thousands of dollars on whale packages, mind you
    LokeroTimEisenGdemamiChildoftheShadowsmmolouYashaXManWithNoTantweedledumb99
  • SabracSabrac Member UncommonPosts: 119
    Wow... Didn't knew CoE was in such bad state, i'm not a backer, i heard the buzz around this mmo a long time ago, ageing system, permanent death, real in game seasons, fully community driven, low fantasy, big focus in immersion and many other things.

    It really caught my attention because of their unique approach to the mmo genre, this game was basically a RPer dream.

    But i kinda observed from the distance and since their lack of updates to the general public made me thought they decided to just update their backers only but this is far worse that i would imagine.

    Too bad, another kickstarter mmo that seems going to fail.
    GdemamiChildoftheShadows
  • befuddledbefuddled Member UncommonPosts: 1
    I didn't support this, but I have other Kickstarter gaming projects. For single-player games, it's been a positive experience. One MMO, and.....well, won't fool me twice. They need to get the backing of a stable publisher with sufficient resources, or they need to find another line of work.
    ChildoftheShadows
  • KaeolynKaeolyn Member CommonPosts: 1
    I had backed the kickstarter but withdrew before it completed. I liked the idea, but it just didn't seem doable. After talking with people a few months ago, I made the decision to back the game. Initially, I was still apprehensive as we haven't seen anything from a game that promised to be in alpha and beta in the last year. I invested enough to gain access to NDA materials and while I will not reveal anything, They are moving forward. It still concerns me that we still haven't seen any in game footage. Other games who announced at a similar time have been streaming their prealpha for the last year (Pantheon). I do believe in the game. I think they will release something. It's expected to be entirely different than other MMO's. I remain hopeful that it will be something to play for years to come.

    GdemamiRidrithChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekkotweedledumb99
  • CembryeCembrye Member UncommonPosts: 63
    I supported on KS and still think it was worthwhile, given the different approach being taken. Like the author, I'm not ready to lay this in the casket just yet. However I agree with the comments above about the warning signs of feature creep. I am not a tech person, but I have managed large projects on deadlines and the key to pulling them off is to set reasonable, achievable goals and stick to a solid plan. As I watched development, while I understood the reasoning behind the MUD and other aspects, it made me wonder why every moment wasn't being spent on the core of the game. It was like discussing the drapes on the castle when the foundation hadn't even been finished. Anyway, I still have hopes, but it is unfortunately a feature of humans that trying anything new involves risk. I think the owner had/has good intentions, he just may have gotten sucked into something that turned into a cat's-cradle of challenges he is unable to solve. Count me /sad if this is the case.
    ChildoftheShadows
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,561
    mercster said:
    To sum up:

    Idea came up 2-3 years ago, dev dude thinks he has the system for the PERFECT MMORPG! Includes a lot of whales buying kingdoms, and they all say "But it's cool 'cuz some people will want to be peasants, they'll be doing fun stuff while us poor schlubs are running a kingdom!" I've never heard quite so much delusion, so early on in a project.

    Year(s) go buy of book-length theory-crafting posts from dev.

    Were gonna use SpatialOS, it was the backbone of everything; now not. Can only imagine the amount of thought and experience is going into these decisions.

    First version of game: web-based tactical kingdom simulator! Oh, and a text based MUD on the side to "test stuff."

    Months go by, more tl;dr masturbatory theory-crafting from game development savant.

    New idea: first version will be voxel-based! Minecraft with our huge complex pay-to-dominate backend!

    Mostly silence for half a year with occasional outbursts of "things are complicated..."

    I never bought in, not for a dime. I was part of another sinking ship (SotA, I'm not immune) but heard about some people telling me this was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. I read the concept and developer diaries, and could tell from the general tone of the dev and community that this would never, ever be a successful MMORPG.

    Sorry to anyone who "donated"! EDIT: Donated for multiple hundreds/thousands of dollars on whale packages, mind you
    I like you.  Please post more often.
    GdemamiChildoftheShadowsYashaXManWithNoTanKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,469
    edited January 17
    mercster said:
    To sum up:

    Idea came up 2-3 years ago, dev dude thinks he has the system for the PERFECT MMORPG! Includes a lot of whales buying kingdoms, and they all say "But it's cool 'cuz some people will want to be peasants, they'll be doing fun stuff while us poor schlubs are running a kingdom!" I've never heard quite so much delusion, so early on in a project.

    Year(s) go buy of book-length theory-crafting posts from dev.

    Were gonna use SpatialOS, it was the backbone of everything; now not. Can only imagine the amount of thought and experience is going into these decisions.

    First version of game: web-based tactical kingdom simulator! Oh, and a text based MUD on the side to "test stuff."

    Months go by, more tl;dr masturbatory theory-crafting from game development savant.

    New idea: first version will be voxel-based! Minecraft with our huge complex pay-to-dominate backend!

    Mostly silence for half a year with occasional outbursts of "things are complicated..."

    I never bought in, not for a dime. I was part of another sinking ship (SotA, I'm not immune) but heard about some people telling me this was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. I read the concept and developer diaries, and could tell from the general tone of the dev and community that this would never, ever be a successful MMORPG.

    Sorry to anyone who "donated"! EDIT: Donated for multiple hundreds/thousands of dollars on whale packages, mind you
    I like you.  Please post more often.
    Good hell.. I that that was your Post.. not someone you quote...


    and you didn't even give them an Awesome or an Agree.. how skinflint
    ChildoftheShadows
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,561
    Ungood said:
    mercster said:
    To sum up:

    Idea came up 2-3 years ago, dev dude thinks he has the system for the PERFECT MMORPG! Includes a lot of whales buying kingdoms, and they all say "But it's cool 'cuz some people will want to be peasants, they'll be doing fun stuff while us poor schlubs are running a kingdom!" I've never heard quite so much delusion, so early on in a project.

    Year(s) go buy of book-length theory-crafting posts from dev.

    Were gonna use SpatialOS, it was the backbone of everything; now not. Can only imagine the amount of thought and experience is going into these decisions.

    First version of game: web-based tactical kingdom simulator! Oh, and a text based MUD on the side to "test stuff."

    Months go by, more tl;dr masturbatory theory-crafting from game development savant.

    New idea: first version will be voxel-based! Minecraft with our huge complex pay-to-dominate backend!

    Mostly silence for half a year with occasional outbursts of "things are complicated..."

    I never bought in, not for a dime. I was part of another sinking ship (SotA, I'm not immune) but heard about some people telling me this was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. I read the concept and developer diaries, and could tell from the general tone of the dev and community that this would never, ever be a successful MMORPG.

    Sorry to anyone who "donated"! EDIT: Donated for multiple hundreds/thousands of dollars on whale packages, mind you
    I like you.  Please post more often.
    Good hell.. I that that was your Post.. not someone you quote.
    I agree. He shows promise.
    ChildoftheShadows

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,561
    Lethallin said:
    I hope this game comes out permadeath sounds like a real challenge that I'm looking forward to instead of all the whiners complaining about perma death I look forward to killing people and knowing they might be actually dead and the thought of perma dying myself is gonna be intense If this game does come out I'm gonna play the hell outta it
    Permadeath is not a challenge it is an annoyance and the longer you live, the more it will hurt.  The amount of keyboards broken and holes in the wall from mice thrown against the wall would be awesome youtube material but lets not kid ourselves to think it is a fun mechanic because you will die, lose all your stuff, and you will be pissed and likely quit.
    Beyond that, in the wisdom of Caspien...they have tied this pain point to the monetization.  So now you have died, lost your character and they want you to spend $30 or something to start over.

    LOL

    That is not going to end well. Except of course for these early backers/IvoryTower who already have a dozen sparks of life from all the money they spent.  But the average player who was a peasant is going to think long and hard before spending more money to be someone else’s serf.


    ChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekkoKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290
    edited January 17
    I want to welcome all of the new and uncharacteristically positive folks that made an account to join in this conversation. Always nice to have some new people contributing.



    @timeisen Wow... I don’t know whether to stand and applaud you or cry that they have driven all Hope from even you.



    To me it always comes down to a few simple things. Say what you mean. Do what you say you will do in roughly the time you say you will do it.



    It’s fine for a developer to talk the talk and push back on detractors. But then they better walk the walk and do what they said.



    Simply pulling Caspiens own words and then comparing them to reality should be all anyone needs to know about this project. From the silly timelines, to SpatialOS being what would enable all their lofty promises, to ElyriaMUD, to VoxElyria... to the Prelude... on and on and on there has been a massive deficiency in delivering.



    As I said in a recent thread comparing his Jan 2018 State of Elyria to what really was delivered last year, it’s easy to waste other people’s money.



    I still think it would make an interesting column for you to take the statements from the various Kickstarter MMORPGs from a year ago and compare them to reality today.








    The only thing Luke Skywalker and I have in common is stubborn hope. Him for his dad and me because thats all that’s there.


    ChildoftheShadowsSpottyGekko
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
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