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  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kyleran said:
    I know the crazies are everywhere, it's just most PVE centric game present fewer opportunities for people to show their bad side.

    Being a long time EVE player (yet firmly a carebear) I've found the game to have the best community out of most MMOs I've played, mostly as cooperating with others is important and pissing off others unnecessarily can have unwanted consequences.
    MadFrenchie said:

    Competition naturally lends itself to confrontation more than cooperation.

    That brings up a more interesting topic, imo, really, though.

    Depending on the environment, it's well-known that a competitive atmosphere can actually increase cooperation and social commitment.
    Sure, in an individualized situation, you'll likely have more confrontation, because it's every man for himself. 
    But, in any type of situation where teaming up nets a benefit, people tend to become quite cooperative and willing to ally and bond and even defend each other.

    As Kyleran is saying, cooperation is important for personal success in many competitive situations.  I think most people widely consider EVE to be a pretty hardcore PVP-centric game.

    I've often found that to be the case in competitive games, sports, etc.
    Sure, you have the angry psychopaths who are going to snap.  And, we are all familiar with the griefer type personalities.
    But, they tend to be the internet version of the "vocal minority".

    On topic to the actual game the thread is about:

    In theory, and yes, it's pure theory... If Atlas set up the game in the right way, to where land ownership and territory control and such actually had a real purpose, other than an excuse to fight, it could potentially breed a cooperative atmosphere.

    P.S.
    I wonder how counterproductive and well-received some of the other mechanics will be, though -- ex. characters dying of old age.
    The only game I ever remember playing with a successful aging mechanic was The Guild, but that was a single-player family dynasty game.
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,530
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    [Deleted User]Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    That's basically what the Total War franchise does with a few mechanical differences between games. I don't have a problem with that if it is done well. It can be done well or it can end up a cash grab. It's hard to tell until you dive in. This is why every game should have a trial demo.
    Yeah, that kinda rubs me wrong with Total War sometimes (the massive amounts of civ packs they dice up and charge individually is not incredibly consumer-friendly), but if you compare titles like Shogun and Warhammer, they are significantly different.

    Kinda gotta wait and see with the TW franchise.

    image
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,731
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 
    [Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 

    Exactly, my wife is an avid pvp'er, she doesn't do a whole lot but that... she's an amazing nurse practitioner, and is beyond compassionate and goes an extra few miles (for no extra pay) to help her people out...really she's probably nicer to them than she is to me.. haha
    Hmm, not sure how I feel about a nurse who is really into PVP. 

    Her name isn't Jackie is it?

    ;)
    [Deleted User]ConstantineMerus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    That's basically what the Total War franchise does with a few mechanical differences between games. I don't have a problem with that if it is done well. It can be done well or it can end up a cash grab. It's hard to tell until you dive in. This is why every game should have a trial demo.
    Never played any games under such a model, doubt I would enjoy such, but good to know.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited December 2018
    rodarin said:
    LMAO LIF has the best engine ever made WTF are you talking about? There isnt an engine anywhere that lets you do what that one does. Your fascination with engines is awesome especially since you dont know WTF youre talking about half the time and cling to the worst engine ever made for MMOS and your  prophet Chris Roberts continuing to try and make it work for his disaster of a project. Disaster only in terms of actually making a playable game not in term of milking players. Which you also ironically love to mention all the time. And cite said engine again here with Amazons failure waiting to release project.

    LiF MMO had the open everything goes full loot system PvP window and that is why most people didnt want anything to do with it. Who wants to spend the hours it takes in that game grinding only to lose stuff during their magic hour or two or whatever it was? Also if you died you lost hours of progression on your character as well. On the private servers in the Your Own version thousands of people were playing it until it got old and stale due to them not developing that portion anymore to focus on the MMO. All anyone has to do is look at every single game there is like ARK and LiF and whatever other 'survival' type games that allow server hosting and looking at the populations on PvP one and PvE ones. And the more harsh the PvP setting the lower the population across every game like that with no exceptions. But the irony is those games need some sort of PvP, but not full on full loot forced PvP.
    Huge amount of BS.  LiF MMO was a very weak engine, I played it before the MMO and on the MMO and the amount of workarounds they used to just have it minimally work is gg, like animals and water, climbing walls by clipping placeables, etc.. .etc.. Ridiculous exploits such as when some people found an easy way that the devs were aware of but didn't fix, to delete an entire massive alliance from the US MMO server lol. Lots of shenanigans.

    We had a big alliance going on LiF MMO until we got hacked by Russians, clipped through everything, stole everything (OUTSIDE the PvP hours that allowed to raid inner claims), and people just started flocking away from the game, there was no point if we couldn't stand a chance against guilds that purposedly exploited the game for advantage.

    Those guilds on the MMO were also famous to lag their claims a HELL LOT with tree farms and such, so the FPS drop would be so intense near their claims it would by itself discourage others from attacking their claim.

    If that wasn't enough when we got attacked we also have to play in slow-motion frame-rates even if it's 10-15 enemies.

    So you don't know wtf you're talking about, their engine was weak, had to do massive giveaways on mechanics so they could get features to work, such as feature-less AI; or the fact the large majority of actions had timers so it cheats the network cost... While things like the combat action couldn't escape the ridiculous pings of well over 1000ms during the open PvP ruleset hours.

    "best engine ever made"... Oh boy... //eyeroll

    What we need is a game like LiF MMO done with a capable engine, and while Ark's engine is wonky, put under one MMO scale it's far better than what LiF achieved.

    And Lumberyard's engine with The New World MMO by Amazon is an even better one because that one achieves good visuals with good optimization over its play mechanic, they need is the MMO server scaling backend that is a future thing for that title.

    Kyleran[Deleted User]Lokero
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    People always seem to forget Max actually knows something of which he speaks.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Tindale111Tindale111 Member UncommonPosts: 276
    The other important thing besides there being pvp and pve servers is they have said there will be 1st and 3rd person view this is important to me anyway as 1st person tends to give me motion sickness 
    mcrippins
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    [Deleted User]

  • newbismxnewbismx Member UncommonPosts: 276
    Give me Ark as it stands (with S+) in a world with 10k people and if it runs decent it will be the best MMORPG of the decade- maybe ever.
    Kyleranmcrippins
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    Bloodaxes said:
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    Pretty big difference between being called a carebear and a sociopath. 
    In all fairness theres a world of difference between the two behaviours with only one being particularly onerous.

    It's why separate servers are the best really, but I realize they can be cost prohibitive and challenging to maintain.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    Pretty big difference between being called a carebear and a sociopath. 
    In all fairness theres a world of difference between the two behaviours with only one being particularly onerous.

    It's why separate servers are the best really, but I realize they can be cost prohibitive and challenging to maintain.


    What if you see someone as a sociopath but they identify as a carebear, what server they should join? 

    Just a joke, keep your knickers on! ;)
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Bloodaxes said:
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    Pretty big difference between being called a carebear and a sociopath. 
    How about stop name calling people for playing differently? Maybe for some, calling them carebear is like calling them pussies, cowards, spineless and whatever. Does that sound like a friendly nickname to call people who enjoy pve? Maybe that's the reason pvp fanatics are called sociopaths, gankers, campers and whatever.

    I'd say stop the jabbing if you don't like being named called too.
    [Deleted User]Kyleran

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited December 2018
    Kyleran said:
    In all fairness theres a world of difference between the two behaviours with only one being particularly onerous.

    It's why separate servers are the best really, but I realize they can be cost prohibitive and challenging to maintain.


    That would be the ideal thing to do. However, this is a survival game in the end. The content for pve servers will be quite limited guaranteed, as they expect players to stay longer and make "content" through pvp wars.

    Same thing in conan exiles. At least they offered a server ruleset that had a mix of both (PVE-Conflict) where pvp was only allowed during a specific hour and buildings could never be destroyed by players. Even that sometimes had asshats who camped the best farming spots (Even starting areas) until pvp turned off then logging off. When asked why not simply go to a pvp server they tell you because they don't want their base to be destroyed...   

    I hate killing others unsuspecting, makes me feel bad. I'll only pvp when it's consensual (Battlegrounds, arena, whatever).
    [Deleted User]Kyleran

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,606
    In the end it still all comes down to POPULATION. Or better yet CONSISTENT population. As long as enough people log on then a game (any game no matter how bad people thin it is) will be playable. 

    Thats why every game since forever is always "best" right at initial release because thats when the most players are around. And even though there are issues theyre overlooked because of the mad dash of running around with dozens or hundreds (used to be that way) people.

    Then as number die off and the new smell wears off the bashing and criticisms hit. Been that way forever.

    Thats why BR and lobby games all do well because there are always people around to be matched up with. When theyre arent then those games start failing.


     The general consensus from most is that both WoW and Fortnite are 'kiddy' games. Maybe true may not be true. Opinion I guess. But WoW has been the king since it launched and Fortnite for now is king. SO I would say the opinions of most people doesnt mean jack or shit because those games are doing something right even though most people (at least ones I know) dont play them at all.

    This thing will do OK if it has enough people play it consistently enough. But with something like this with a map this big its going to need thousands of players to even make it playable. Until of course they start adding in fast travel to the high population hubs (if those arent already part of the initial phase). People want bigger and more elaborate until they look around and theyre alone. Although in some cases (most maybe) people like playing multiplayer games solo. As long as they have a multiplayer market or store to buy or sell things. Or trading with other people in some fashion.

    Person above mentioned Conan. Why did it fail? It offered everything everyone could want more or less. Even had a pretty decent IP behind it. introduced some unique mechanics (slaves/thralls), had as good a building system as ARK does, PvP, RP value for the streamers. It even had ALL the streamers playing it for a month or two. What happened?
    Lokero
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Well i play a private server,4 grids,it still feels big but not nearly as big as the official.3 grids are PVE and 1 is pvp,imo a nice setup.
    IMO at least for me,i don't need to see lots of people,there is way too much to do even if you want to just PVE and forget the world of people lol.

    I guarantee you die to some wolf you will spend the next week gearing up and hunting that sucker down lol.There is a lot of getting even in this game,even with PVE.

    I sum it up like this...

    MOST of my game purchases the last 10 years have me wanting to logout an delete the games.Atlas has kept me challenged and intrigued and very busy and entertained.So for me it has been a good purchase, even after the first few days of complete frustration,it is offering me value.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,475
    I guess the reason for the 'no buzz' is self evident.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    edited January 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    Pretty big difference between being called a carebear and a sociopath. 
    In all fairness theres a world of difference between the two behaviours with only one being particularly onerous.

    It's why separate servers are the best really, but I realize they can be cost prohibitive and challenging to maintain.


    What if you see someone as a sociopath but they identify as a carebear, what server they should join? 

    Just a joke, keep your knickers on! ;)
    My guess is folks with such conditions exist and thrive in any competitive environment where there are clear or perceived markers to define "winning."

    In PVE it tends to be mastery of high end raiding.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,515
    edited January 2019
    Bloodaxes said:
    Kyleran said:
    In all fairness theres a world of difference between the two behaviours with only one being particularly onerous.

    It's why separate servers are the best really, but I realize they can be cost prohibitive and challenging to maintain.


    That would be the ideal thing to do. However, this is a survival game in the end. The content for pve servers will be quite limited guaranteed, as they expect players to stay longer and make "content" through pvp wars.

    Same thing in conan exiles. At least they offered a server ruleset that had a mix of both (PVE-Conflict) where pvp was only allowed during a specific hour and buildings could never be destroyed by players. Even that sometimes had asshats who camped the best farming spots (Even starting areas) until pvp turned off then logging off. When asked why not simply go to a pvp server they tell you because they don't want their base to be destroyed...   

    I hate killing others unsuspecting, makes me feel bad. I'll only pvp when it's consensual (Battlegrounds, arena, whatever).
    Reminds me EVE, while I usually played support roles, on those rare occasions I would go out on small fleet roams as DPS if we caught some miners in a belt my corp mates often remarked I didn't appear on the kill mail.

    Never told them it was because I never tried to fire a shot, just mumbled something about the cat jumping in my lap or spilling soda..

    Killing those not prepared for a good fight has zero appeal unless its some sort of declared, vile enemy invading my groups territory.
    kitarad

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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