Agreed, I remember him admitting to this on stream a while back a few times.
I think their dates were too optimistic, maybe naive, considering how many things they're trying to do that don't have standard (or buyable) solutions.
Even with 5.2 years of development behind them, and even with a team that's close to the size they've wanted, it's looking like another 1.5-2.5 years of development to get to a polished, stable, fun release candidate.
I'm not saying they were lying about their initial estimates, but I will say that if I was leading a project with this scope and wanted to raise money from fans, I would've been damn tempted to be as optimistic as possible to make sure my project got off the ground.
Edit: I don't feel negatively/ill toward them, although I'm definitely venting my frustrations here lol - considering the tech hurdles they've faced, I admire how they've dealt with things. They've done it with tenacity, nerdy grace, commitment, and generousness. That's pretty cool.
I too don't harbor any ill will over how late it is, when I backed it I did so with no thought of ever asking for my money back and truthfully, not sure I would really ever play as PVP centric games really aren't my thing.
My pet peeve is I believe after this much time is passed they should be able to provide a tentative release schedule which as I recall Mark said last January after the new funding came in he would be able to do after formal testing got going.
Well, I think we are still in "beta" 1.0 maybe, and not making a lot of progress towards that goal, yet every week I get an email saying busy, busy, busy and how much was "accomplished.
I agree with you but it doesn't matter. I think crowd funded projects work differently, not just for the initial start, but how they keep momentum going. Normal games funded through business channels are conducted like business projects. Crowd funded games are a tribalistic experience more akin to sports or social organizations, clubs, religious groups, and MLM. Stakeholders vehemently excuse the clubs (games) they're invested in while undermining those they aren't.
There is a huge disconnect between people uninvested in the projects directly and those deeply invested both financially and emotionally. Look at the threads for each game and see what each of us posts for each, which are all essentially guilty of the same "crimes", and how they differ. Look for inconsistencies. It's very interesting.
Remember when the BR for this game was late and there was an outrage? Now read this thread, if you want, and notice how people explain away lateness with "project transparency" and their own positive spin. These are the deeply invested. That doesn't excuse anything about this BR fiasco, but it hopefully shines some perspective on why I think the problem perpetuates with no end in sight. There are bonus points for noticing the sales pitch for the milk machine.
In some ways crowd funded games have replaced traditional gaming clubs and communities. I think people put up with the crap because those communities have a life about them whereas most others don't. Even here it's super negative all the time. In those crowd-funded game communities those invested in the game have a place to go and socialize. That enables them to justify the flaws because the community interaction is worth the cost.
Crowd funded games aren't like religions beyond the surface level of slavish devotion to a promise. Crowd funding projects have actually produced some things that actually exist (Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 say hi). Religions never have. And I'm pretty sure crowdfunding has never killed anyone (probably... I hope... please tell me no one has been murdered over Star Citizen yet).
You missed my point. This isn't a commentary about religious beliefs. It was likening crowd funding to other social groups bound together by common ideals and goals in a tribalistic nature. Sports is another example that has similar behaviors to religious and special interest clubs. They all share a lot of common features especially being deeply personally invested in the social group.
That much is true. But at the same time, such behavior has been a part of established games from the beginning, and especially with the rise of online gaming. MMOs in particular thrive on it.
I will not be playing this game. Even before they entirely switched directions, back when it was an MMO I wasn't all that interested. Some of their concepts sounded nice, but the idea of PvP Castle sieges ala DarkFall Online was a turn off. Now that they've gone full retard and decided to make a Battle Royale game this is a complete zero from me.
Agreed, I remember him admitting to this on stream a while back a few times.
I think their dates were too optimistic, maybe naive, considering how many things they're trying to do that don't have standard (or buyable) solutions.
Even with 5.2 years of development behind them, and even with a team that's close to the size they've wanted, it's looking like another 1.5-2.5 years of development to get to a polished, stable, fun release candidate.
I'm not saying they were lying about their initial estimates, but I will say that if I was leading a project with this scope and wanted to raise money from fans, I would've been damn tempted to be as optimistic as possible to make sure my project got off the ground.
Edit: I don't feel negatively/ill toward them, although I'm definitely venting my frustrations here lol - considering the tech hurdles they've faced, I admire how they've dealt with things. They've done it with tenacity, nerdy grace, commitment, and generousness. That's pretty cool.
I too don't harbor any ill will over how late it is, when I backed it I did so with no thought of ever asking for my money back and truthfully, not sure I would really ever play as PVP centric games really aren't my thing.
My pet peeve is I believe after this much time is passed they should be able to provide a tentative release schedule which as I recall Mark said last January after the new funding came in he would be able to do after formal testing got going.
Well, I think we are still in "beta" 1.0 maybe, and not making a lot of progress towards that goal, yet every week I get an email saying busy, busy, busy and how much was "accomplished.
I agree with you but it doesn't matter. I think crowd funded projects work differently, not just for the initial start, but how they keep momentum going. Normal games funded through business channels are conducted like business projects. Crowd funded games are a tribalistic experience more akin to sports or social organizations, clubs, religious groups, and MLM. Stakeholders vehemently excuse the clubs (games) they're invested in while undermining those they aren't.
There is a huge disconnect between people uninvested in the projects directly and those deeply invested both financially and emotionally. Look at the threads for each game and see what each of us posts for each, which are all essentially guilty of the same "crimes", and how they differ. Look for inconsistencies. It's very interesting.
Remember when the BR for this game was late and there was an outrage? Now read this thread, if you want, and notice how people explain away lateness with "project transparency" and their own positive spin. These are the deeply invested. That doesn't excuse anything about this BR fiasco, but it hopefully shines some perspective on why I think the problem perpetuates with no end in sight. There are bonus points for noticing the sales pitch for the milk machine.
In some ways crowd funded games have replaced traditional gaming clubs and communities. I think people put up with the crap because those communities have a life about them whereas most others don't. Even here it's super negative all the time. In those crowd-funded game communities those invested in the game have a place to go and socialize. That enables them to justify the flaws because the community interaction is worth the cost.
Crowd funded games aren't like religions beyond the surface level of slavish devotion to a promise. Crowd funding projects have actually produced some things that actually exist (Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 say hi). Religions never have. And I'm pretty sure crowdfunding has never killed anyone (probably... I hope... please tell me no one has been murdered over Star Citizen yet).
You missed my point. This isn't a commentary about religious beliefs. It was likening crowd funding to other social groups bound together by common ideals and goals in a tribalistic nature. Sports is another example that has similar behaviors to religious and special interest clubs. They all share a lot of common features especially being deeply personally invested in the social group.
That much is true. But at the same time, such behavior has been a part of established games from the beginning, and especially with the rise of online gaming. MMOs in particular thrive on it.
While true, that seemed to be fading from this genre a bit with the rise of anonymous group finder. Close-knit communities of guilds/alliances became a small subsection of the player population, instead of encompassing most of the player population. At least until the crowdfunding campaign @Torval is referencing.
People used to defend the games. I never really got the point as I think if a game is good it doesn't need a random internet warrior defending it, but we have (d)evolved beyond that. Now we defend concepts and screenshots. Maybe a tech demo. We don't even HAVE games to defend in most cases...
It has shifted more from 2 people arguing over some semblance of facts (a game that existed) to arguing about faith, hope, and dreams. IMHO it becomes more and more cult-like every day.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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It has shifted more from 2 people arguing over some semblance of facts (a game that existed) to arguing about faith, hope, and dreams. IMHO it becomes more and more cult-like every day.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018