When will these developers realize too many blooms is too many blooms. At some point they start adversely affecting the battle. Somethings need to be telegraphed, but likely not everything that went down in these videos. I mean I couldn’t even tell who was who or what they were doing. This didn’t make me want to try it.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Agreed, once you get oriented in game and start screening out effects you don't care about (e.g. teammates AoE DPS on enemies), it gets easier to see what to pay attention for.
You learn to edit out the stuff that would otherwise cause clutter for a new person.
There's a limit to how much devs can avoid this VFX overload, especially in larger battles.
OP says not the same w/o a team or guild.Well yeah because it looks like pvp is all the game really has to offer.It might fit their budget but pvp in a mmorpg is just so out of touch. They will NEVER balance the pvp..never.
Why would anyone pick a genre like rpg for pvp anyhow,maps will mean virtually nothing and you don';t have time to do anything as a team once the mess starts.
Geesh i still play UT99 and when i hop into a server with even 6 players,i already hear TOO much noise and my system begins to get bogged down by so much going on the screen.There isn't even a lot of high poly stuff either,in these modern games with 10/20/50 players,it will be a shit show of lag and impossible to follow.
Part of great pvp is listening for sounds,using your map and understanding hot spots,safe spots,Z-axis spots,rpg';s can't do anything high level for pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
People were complaining about visual "overload" many times (me being one) and ACE is very aware of the feedback; In one of recent Twitch streams, J.Todd mentioned they are working on toning it down.
I hope that some telegraphs and particle effects (that indeed look like placeholders?) will get another pass or two. On the other hand, ACE has 5-10 times less people working on combat, or any part of the game for that matter, than games we are usually comparing them to.
how far off is this game?cos those animations looks stiff af,and far too much effects and bloom no matter how some try to justify it,it looks bad and needs toning down a touch.it doesnt matter how skilled you are at pvp you cant honestly tell who is hitting who or wtf is going on,i thought these guys would have learned from guild wars and eso pvp.
I was hoping for something quite a bit different than this. This is visual overload in the most extreme sense of the word. I want to turn all of that distracting stuff off.
Just show me some very subdued particle effects and a health bar. Turn the rest of that garbage off. From ticking damage numbers to HUGE CC EFFECT NOTIFICATIONS it's just too damn much.
Tone this wayyyy the hell down, or at least give us the option to turn combat notifications/damage/effects off and on, and/or resize it to our liking.
On a side note, it looks really hard to kill even one player without 4-6 players ganging up on them. If no one ever dies, then these fights are gonna get real boring real quick.
I was hoping for something quite a bit different than this. This is visual overload in the most extreme sense of the word. I want to turn all of that distracting stuff off.
Just show me some very subdued particle effects and a health bar. Turn the rest of that garbage off. From ticking damage numbers to HUGE CC EFFECT NOTIFICATIONS it's just too damn much.
Tone this wayyyy the hell down, or at least give us the option to turn combat notifications/damage/effects off and on, and/or resize it to our liking.
On a side note, it looks really hard to kill even one player without 4-6 players ganging up on them. If no one ever dies, then these fights are gonna get real boring real quick.
I for sure saw some1 die in one of those clips cmon, winkwink.
Well, for those wondering, they do seem to have toned down the particle effects.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
how far off is this game?cos those animations looks stiff af,and far too much effects and bloom no matter how some try to justify it,it looks bad and needs toning down a touch.it doesnt matter how skilled you are at pvp you cant honestly tell who is hitting who or wtf is going on,i thought these guys would have learned from guild wars and eso pvp.
Supposed to enter a soft launch by end of the year. They have stated this won't be the LAUNCH but there won't be anymore wipes. At least that is the plan. So when soft launch happens they are not going to market the game sup hard. Not until LAUNCH. It was after reading that newsletter that I quit being interested. Sure I backed the game so they will tell me when soft launch is but normal people won't know. So when people jump in during the official launch they are going to be under powered because there is a skill tree system to give people an edge.
Yup... but since there is a level and gear cap, and the power disparity is not that much anyway, all that will happen is that when new the players join the game at Launch, they will be greeted by veterans that have been prepping for their arrival, they will have established guilds looking to invite them in, with skilled and knowledgeable players ready to help them out and guide them though the game... they will walk into a game ready for them..
I think it's a great idea really.. we shall see how it works out..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
When will these developers realize too many blooms is too many blooms. At some point they start adversely affecting the battle. Somethings need to be telegraphed, but likely not everything that went down in these videos. I mean I couldn’t even tell who was who or what they were doing. This didn’t make me want to try it.
I have felt that way pretty much since the beginning... It's a major reason why I login every 3-6 months and then log out.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
The kind that was making the point that a large-scale PVP game shouldn't have more particle effects than a 1v1 game.
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
The kind that was making the point that a large-scale PVP game shouldn't have more particle effects than a 1v1 game.
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
So in your mind, more people= less effects? I think that speaks for itself.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
The kind that was making the point that a large-scale PVP game shouldn't have more particle effects than a 1v1 game.
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
Ignoring the insults.
But this is not true at all, one of the main reasons why MMO's have bloom effects is do that the other people in your group can see what you are doing, and even recognize the effect by the bloom, so they can respond accordingly.
This was common as far back as EQ, so players could tell what buffs they were being hit with, when they were being healed, and what debuffs were being put on the mobs.
The need for these visual clues is more prevalent in games that have combo effects, like say GW2, that has a system of Fields and Finishers.
But that is why MMO's have these bloom effects at all, so others in the group/event can tell what is going on. A single player game does not have the same level of need, in fact, they don't have any need for a bloom for buffs outside visuals for the sake of visuals, and even damage blooms are minimal, unless there is a need to express the effect, IE: Setting someone on fire, and they look like they are burning.
Equally so, Blooms in Single player games often can last longer, like that magic shield or armor effect stays up till it wears off, or when setting a mob on fire, the flames last till the effect ends, because there is only one player, so continual effects/blooms are not as much a problem, where in a MMO, the same is not true at all, given how many spells get stacked, and how many players can be involved, thus the blooms/effects are gone in a second, as they were just there for a quick visual clue to others.
So trying to build a comparison between the two, and say they should be the same, is flat out wrong. They have totally different purposes in both games and thus not even remotely alike honestly.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The scale of visual effects is the problem, not their purpose. Hence it does not matter what the game is, you can compare the scale and how it affects the ability to read what's happening in the game.
It's to the counterpoint to note that MMOs rely on visual cures for buffs, debuffs, telegraphing actions over a distance, etc. Notably so, because while that is mostly true, and it does help, it only helps so long as those effects do not themselves become the obfuscating factor to understanding what's going on.
Which seems to be the criticism here. Street Fighter was brought up not over the style of gameplay or scale of PvP, but over the game's liberal use of visual effects, and that Crowfall seems to have soundly overshot it's own visual effects scale to the point that you can't readily track what color splash is supposed to be related to what else is happening on the screen.
The point would be that there is a line where these things move from being beneficial or even exaggerated and flashy, to being essentially confetti-vomit.
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
The kind that was making the point that a large-scale PVP game shouldn't have more particle effects than a 1v1 game.
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
So in your mind, more people= less effects? I think that speaks for itself.
Me believing a game designed for massive multiplayer, should have scaled back particle effects does speak for itself.
*And to be fair to your comprehension, I absolutely mean on a per-player basis. Not in total.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
While I agree with toning down the bloom, etc. It also looks even more like a shitshow to people who don't know what they're looking at. Every game looks that way when you have no idea what other classes are, how they play, what the animations look like etc.
Guild Wars 2 looked like a $#!% show and I understood what I was looking at... I just couldn't SEE!!!!
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
I was thinking the same thing, this is like doing that final burn on a world boss in GW2. Can't see anything, just lock on and keep spamming until it's dead. I couldn't imagine how that would be if fighting a multitude of actual players jumping around all over the place.
What kind of dingus compares a purely 1v1 game to a large-scale PvP game?
The kind that was making the point that a large-scale PVP game shouldn't have more particle effects than a 1v1 game.
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
So trying to build a comparison between the two, and say they should be the same, is flat out wrong. They have totally different purposes in both games and thus not even remotely alike honestly.
You're right, but I didn't say they should be the same. Soooo...
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Comments
I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.
They will NEVER balance the pvp..never.
Why would anyone pick a genre like rpg for pvp anyhow,maps will mean virtually nothing and you don';t have time to do anything as a team once the mess starts.
Geesh i still play UT99 and when i hop into a server with even 6 players,i already hear TOO much noise and my system begins to get bogged down by so much going on the screen.There isn't even a lot of high poly stuff either,in these modern games with 10/20/50 players,it will be a shit show of lag and impossible to follow.
Part of great pvp is listening for sounds,using your map and understanding hot spots,safe spots,Z-axis spots,rpg';s can't do anything high level for pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think Crowfall needs to seriously tone down attack visuals and focus on making big skills look flashy so the player can see buffs, debuffs and ground AoEs beforehand. For all that silliness it makes the simple circles on the ground look even more stupid.
I don't understand how Artcraft has that many effects shooting out of a player but are expecting big fights to be the norm.
Also... their particle effects aren't really well done, so that makes it worse and NOT worth the potential seizure.
Even Street Fighter 5 is more chill and succinct with the particle effects.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hope that some telegraphs and particle effects (that indeed look like placeholders?) will get another pass or two. On the other hand, ACE has 5-10 times less people working on combat, or any part of the game for that matter, than games we are usually comparing them to.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
I was hoping for something quite a bit different than this. This is visual overload in the most extreme sense of the word. I want to turn all of that distracting stuff off.
Just show me some very subdued particle effects and a health bar. Turn the rest of that garbage off. From ticking damage numbers to HUGE CC EFFECT NOTIFICATIONS it's just too damn much.
Tone this wayyyy the hell down, or at least give us the option to turn combat notifications/damage/effects off and on, and/or resize it to our liking.
On a side note, it looks really hard to kill even one player without 4-6 players ganging up on them. If no one ever dies, then these fights are gonna get real boring real quick.
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Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~
I think it's a great idea really.. we shall see how it works out..
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I mean, what type of mentally regressed neanderthal can't see that?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But this is not true at all, one of the main reasons why MMO's have bloom effects is do that the other people in your group can see what you are doing, and even recognize the effect by the bloom, so they can respond accordingly.
This was common as far back as EQ, so players could tell what buffs they were being hit with, when they were being healed, and what debuffs were being put on the mobs.
The need for these visual clues is more prevalent in games that have combo effects, like say GW2, that has a system of Fields and Finishers.
But that is why MMO's have these bloom effects at all, so others in the group/event can tell what is going on. A single player game does not have the same level of need, in fact, they don't have any need for a bloom for buffs outside visuals for the sake of visuals, and even damage blooms are minimal, unless there is a need to express the effect, IE: Setting someone on fire, and they look like they are burning.
Equally so, Blooms in Single player games often can last longer, like that magic shield or armor effect stays up till it wears off, or when setting a mob on fire, the flames last till the effect ends, because there is only one player, so continual effects/blooms are not as much a problem, where in a MMO, the same is not true at all, given how many spells get stacked, and how many players can be involved, thus the blooms/effects are gone in a second, as they were just there for a quick visual clue to others.
So trying to build a comparison between the two, and say they should be the same, is flat out wrong. They have totally different purposes in both games and thus not even remotely alike honestly.
The scale of visual effects is the problem, not their purpose. Hence it does not matter what the game is, you can compare the scale and how it affects the ability to read what's happening in the game.
It's to the counterpoint to note that MMOs rely on visual cures for buffs, debuffs, telegraphing actions over a distance, etc. Notably so, because while that is mostly true, and it does help, it only helps so long as those effects do not themselves become the obfuscating factor to understanding what's going on.
Which seems to be the criticism here. Street Fighter was brought up not over the style of gameplay or scale of PvP, but over the game's liberal use of visual effects, and that Crowfall seems to have soundly overshot it's own visual effects scale to the point that you can't readily track what color splash is supposed to be related to what else is happening on the screen.
The point would be that there is a line where these things move from being beneficial or even exaggerated and flashy, to being essentially confetti-vomit.
*And to be fair to your comprehension, I absolutely mean on a per-player basis. Not in total.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯