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Updated: Epic & Improbable Providing $25M to 'Help Developers Transition to More Open Engines'

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited January 2019 in News & Features Discussion

imageUpdated: Epic & Improbable Providing $25M to 'Help Developers Transition to More Open Engines' - MMORPG.com News

After yesterday's back-and-forth between Unity and Improbable regarding the future development of SpatialOS games, Epic has stepped into the fray to announce a partnership with Improbable to "help developers transition to more open engines, services and ecosystems". The announcement was made via a joint letter from Epic CEO Tim Sweeney and Improbable CEO Herman Narula.

Read the full story here

Improbable has issued a "final statement" about SpatialOS & Unity:

Unity must urgently clarify their terms or unsuspend our licenses.

Currently the lack of clarity in the Terms of Service for Unity - and the ambiguity created by their subsequent statements - places us and developers in a difficult situation. We urgently need clarity in order to move forward. Everyone requires a long term, dependable answer from Unity on what is and is not allowed, in a documented legal form.

More broadly, developers are asking about other services, not just Improbable’s. This urgently needs resolution.

We do not require any direct technical cooperation with an engine provider to offer our services - Crytek, Epic and all other providers clearly allow interoperability without commercial arrangement with cloud platforms. We have no formal technical arrangements there and have not required any with Unity for years. 

Our preference would be that Unity simply adopts industry standard practice and allows platforms to host the engine as was the case before the change in Terms of Service. Failing that, Unity must grant Improbable sufficient legal basis to protect its existing customers, or be honest with the community about the situation.

We now hope Unity will seek to engage with us to solve this issue.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Post edited by SBFord on
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Comments

  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927
    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement.
    Blacklabelcali
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  • berlightberlight Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Epic did not waste any time to grab this wonderful opportunity. $$$$$$$
    OzmodanHatefull

    Beta tester maniac

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Who would have thought that
    Tencent (Epic Games)
    NetEase (Improbable)
    would be spearheading an initiative for an open sourced indie friendly development solution.
    What a wacky start to 2019 for game development.
    I would certainly question whether or not their initiative is related to that at all, if I'm being honest.  It's brilliant marketing on Epic's part, but it's definitely pure business and PR.

    Epic is certainly using that influx of Fortnite cash to try and grow their business, though, that's for sure.  Between the store and then this, they are definitely trying to secure themselves a place at the top of the money bin.

    Still, if it helps the greater development community, it's a good thing... at least, until Epic turns themselves into the next big business with a stranglehold and the cycle starts anew.
    [Deleted User]Gdemami
  • metarealmetareal Member UncommonPosts: 32
    And one more step towards the Metaverse with open protocols.
    Hatefull
  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152
    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement.
    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.


    SBFordmcrippinsgervaise1Hatefulltweedledumb99Thupli
  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927

    Thomas2006 said:



    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement.



    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.





    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.
    GdemamiOzmodanCaffynatedElquinBlacklabelcali
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited January 2019
    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 
    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.



    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.
    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 
    mcrippinsGdemamiSovrathgervaise1OzmodanCaffynatedElquinHatefullalkarionlogtweedledumb99and 3 others.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888

    Thomas2006 said:



    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement.



    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.





    That's what they say, but in this case I think we should doubt it.

    Improbable just announced that Unity devs are losing their license, and now immediately afterwards they follow with an announcement how Unity devs may get help for switching to another game engine.

    There's always the question whether Improbable are the good guys here, or whether they intentionally created the situation where Unity licenses were in trouble in preparation for their next announcement about help.
    GdemamiElquinobiiThupli
     
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    MisterZebub said:
    SBFord said:
    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 
    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.



    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.
    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 
    Look we all know that Tim Sweeney doesn't actually exist and is just a very sophisticated AI construct, so why are you trying to distract us from the truth? Just who are you covering for and what have you done with the real Suzie Ford!? Now if you'll excuse me I have to go check my basement for pods. 
    You made my Friday. <3
    [Deleted User]Ozmodan


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,263
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,500
    berlight said:
    Epic did not waste any time to grab this wonderful opportunity. $$$$$$$
    Also gives them a great opportunity to take advantage of their "partners" and borrow successful designs as they did with PUBG.

    Evil genius really.


    [Deleted User]

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  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927

    SBFord said:




    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 

    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.




    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.

    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 



    There's no evidence to support what they are saying as well, so I'd rather believe the common logic and that's that a million dollar deal doesn't happen overnight.
    GdemamiElquinobiiRoin
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,984

    SBFord said:




    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 

    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.




    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.

    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 



    Note the verbiage though. He says "agreed on the fund at 6PM". Lets be honest here, nobody just wakes up, and decides to create a $25M MMO grant in 5 hours. It's fairly self-evident that there had been prior discussions and framework and that they finalized the $25M number yesterday.

    I have long learned to read the exact words these guys use... and the words that are left out. What they say is usually true, but not always what you initially believe it means/says.

    XingbairongWellspringGdemamiCaffynatedElquintweedledumb99Interitusobii[Deleted User]etlarand 3 others.

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  • BlueThunderBearBlueThunderBear Member RarePosts: 228
    Epic is really stacking up the good will. Makes you wonder what theyve got in the pipes for the future.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,003
    Well, companies are companies and will always be companies.

    Not sure if anything bad can come out of this and it seems some actual good will come out of this. I don't care if Epic makes another 5 billion dollars if indie devs can benefit.

    Someone's got to pay for things.
    OzmodanKyleranTacticalZombeh
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  • jarsku85jarsku85 Member UncommonPosts: 84
    edited January 2019

    SBFord said:




    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 

    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.




    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.

    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 



    In fact you can legally spy people who use twitter and all devs know that, so tweets are legit :) Remember how how VirtuallyVain tracked people :tongue:
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Perspective is key. 

    Multi-million - or put another way - 2-3 days Fortnite earnings.

    Epic know what they are spending on advertising. Epic want to promote their store, attract indies. This does both and costs not a lot.

    If they had been in discussion for months they could have simply said: "we have been in discussion for months about this and this seems to be the right time to announce it".

    They gain nothing by lying about this and run the risk of being outed as a liar! Its not as though they are standing for election.
    SovrathHatefull
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    What I do not grasp is why Unity committed hari-kari kicking Improbable out the door?  What a completely idiotic marketing move.  You would think they would have worked with them instead.  Unity gets bad-mouthed enough as it is.  Who is going to use that engine if they have any aspirations of making an online game?

    You have to be wary of Epic doing the same thing once they have you locked into their engine.   Personally, I feel Unreal is a much better engine than Unity, but harder to work with.  
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,500
    edited January 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Well, companies are companies and will always be companies.

    Not sure if anything bad can come out of this and it seems some actual good will come out of this. I don't care if Epic makes another 5 billion dollars if indie devs can benefit.

    Someone's got to pay for things.
    Which at the end of the day will be we gamers. 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,003
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Well, companies are companies and will always be companies.

    Not sure if anything bad can come out of this and it seems some actual good will come out of this. I don't care if Epic makes another 5 billion dollars if indie devs can benefit.

    Someone's got to pay for things.
    Which at the end of the day will be we gamers. 
    Well, we have jobs! Let's pony up the dough!!!!
    ConstantineMerus
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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited January 2019
    "Me and another company came up with a way to give away 25mil to help other companies go open source and completely bypassed finance and legal"

    -Kris Kringle
    AlmostLancelotGdemamiRoin
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,502

    DMKano said:


    SBFord said:




    Are they trying to make it out as if Epic is the knight in shining armor that came out of nowhere... I'm 100% sure that they've had meetings for months before this until they reached an agreement. 

    Actually according to Tim Sweeney it all went down really fast.




    My point is that everything is probably fake. They've been talking for months probably. No one just does that nowadays, especially with all the money that's involved.

    That's just tin foil-hatting since there's no evidence to support the claim. Why not just take things at face value? O.o

    Sometimes things just are what they are. 




    True - some things are just what they are.

    However businesses and what they tell the public is rarely just what it is.

    So skepticism should always be the first reaction if it a business related public announcement 





    Yeah, well be that as it may, if I were sitting there reading the news of the split and I saw the opportunity to make a profit, look the hero, and possibly forward my field of endeavor, I would jump on it. Especially if I had the monetary clout and business sense Sweeny has.

    You think you have the inside knowledge of the game industry, well I have a degree and life experience in business, no matter the reason, Sweeny made a very smart decision here and none of it feels premeditated. Only time will tell on that.
    alkarionlog

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,003
    Torval said:
    Man Tim Sweeney talks out both sides of his mouth. Does he lunch with Matt Firor?

    Epic doesn't support open source. By "open" he means using Unreal. Epic explicitly shuns open source for their store. They check the OS and if it's not Windows the launcher errs out with a message stating so.

    Surprise no major publisher, but Valve, actually supports open source gaming, not Good Old Games and CDPR, not Microsoft, and certainly not Epic. Their toolchain doesn't even work on Linux. You can compile their engine, but the dev tools are a no.

    What this thread has reinforced is that gamers want desperately to have a good company to believe in. The industry is banking on this pool of good will to continue their shenanigans.
    I would say that I'm more interested in companies taking the reins than open source folks.

    Don't get me wrong, I recognize the open source fans as people who love what they do and are passionate about their work. But they tend to be (at least it seems to me) more academic and not really in tune with everyone else.

    I remember a friend of mine, an open source fan, loves Linux, telling me that he didn't understand why we needed icons when a simple command line was all one needed.

    Companies are interested in making money and interested in retaining customers so they want to make the user experience a good one (provided they are a good company)

    They want things easy, streamlined, the message clear to the customer.

    Open source seems a bit too convoluted for that. And if that's not the case then that "is" the case of not getting the correct message to your customer base.
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Torval said:
    Man Tim Sweeney talks out both sides of his mouth. Does he lunch with Matt Firor?

    Epic doesn't support open source. By "open" he means using Unreal. Epic explicitly shuns open source for their store. They check the OS and if it's not Windows the launcher errs out with a message stating so.

    Surprise no major publisher, but Valve, actually supports open source gaming, not Good Old Games and CDPR, not Microsoft, and certainly not Epic. Their toolchain doesn't even work on Linux. You can compile their engine, but the dev tools are a no.

    What this thread has reinforced is that gamers want desperately to have a good company to believe in. The industry is banking on this pool of good will to continue their shenanigans.
    ....open source does not mean what you think it means.
    alkarionlog
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