Why I Just Unsubbed From WOW

Scot · January 2019

I don't think you should disengage from anything, but this is censorship, which has a habit of not being used the way it was originally intended.

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

cheyane said:

I know I can turn it off but I want these people to be removed. To be honest I want them to be taught to behave. Yeah you read that correctly I want people to behave properly with respect and to think before they type and speak.

See this is what I think is fundamentally wrong. You admit to having the tools to simply ignore what you dislike, but it is not enough. You feel justified in having your way of thinking forced on others or have them "removed" or "taught to behave". Let's send them to re-education camps right?

Who is the judge of what is right and wrong? What if I find someone who uses the word TOXIC to be aggressive and causes me distress? Should I simply ignore that person using the tools given me or should I be able to have that person "removed" because I disagree with how they behave?

If there are no tools then this is a different conversation as someone in that instance MUST serve as the judge, jury and executioner. But once you have the tools, I am sorry but it is absolutely Orwellian to expect anyone who behaves other than you personally want should be "removed". Because then the "problem" is not that these others are affecting you, it's that they simply exist.

cheyane · January 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

I know I can turn it off but I want these people to be removed. To be honest I want them to be taught to behave. Yeah you read that correctly I want people to behave properly with respect and to think before they type and speak.

See this is what I think is fundamentally wrong. You admit to having the tools to simply ignore what you dislike, but it is not enough. You feel justified in having your way of thinking forced on others or have them "removed" or "taught to behave". Let's send them to re-education camps right?

Who is the judge of what is right and wrong? What if I find someone who uses the word TOXIC to be aggressive and causes me distress? Should I simply ignore that person using the tools given me or should I be able to have that person "removed" because I disagree with how they behave?

If there are no tools then this is a different conversation as someone in that instance MUST serve as the judge, jury and executioner. But once you have the tools, I am sorry but it is absolutely Orwellian to expect anyone who behaves other than you personally want should be "removed". Because then the "problem" is not that these others are affecting you, it's that they simply exist.

I think there is a great difference between who those speak intelligently and advance their views and idiots who behave like morons on the internet. The latter I want removed from my games. I don't care to have them in my games. I did not ask for them to be removed from society. You're however equating my desire for them to be removed for their behaviour as me relegating them to the Gulag.

I think if game companies offer me a choice and that includes removing them then I will exercise it. See I find it quite inexcusable having been brought up very strictly for people to behave how they currently do in many, many game chats and especially voice chat. I do not however ever try to silence them. If I am however given a tool to do so that can in the process educate them on social behaviour I will be willing to use it.

This has nothing to do with me trying to send them to some camp. It is a game, no need to get all solzhenitsyn on me.

I also do not approve how people bring up their children these days because they behave abominably in public.

cheyane · January 2019

True I'm given tools but if game companies want to give more control over the atmosphere in my game I will use it. I don't see how that comes off as a moral high ground or preaching. I don't think that has anything to do with my using the tool companies give me to improve the environment in the game as I see it. Tough cookies that companies are also tired of these idiots.

Right now I use the tools like muting them including reporting and so on but what I am being honest about and I am not trying to behave all high and mighty is that I would honestly not mind having them removed and it does not bother me at all that their behaviour has in the end managed to penalize them. You reap what you sow.

One other thing I don't go around being upset and getting angry when people abuse me or use chat and shout at me with obscenities. I use the tools given to me to mute them or I leave the game which has happened very frequently in the past. What I'm saying is that I don't have any problems with what Blizzard is trying to do. Somehow that makes me a bad person that I think people should have certain standards of behaviour.

Well I am 60 over years old and my upbringing has been quite different from what most of you may have experienced and how I brought my own children up is also reflective of that. My husband seems to have the same opinion but we are from different cultures but have similar views.

I also do not agree with this nonsense about who is to say what is right or wrong. Quite the contrary, you do know what is right and wrong if you have been brought up with the correct values. I just think that people flaunt that and knowing it full well. This is not nuclear physics and let's not pretend it is.

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

I know I can turn it off but I want these people to be removed. To be honest I want them to be taught to behave. Yeah you read that correctly I want people to behave properly with respect and to think before they type and speak.

See this is what I think is fundamentally wrong. You admit to having the tools to simply ignore what you dislike, but it is not enough. You feel justified in having your way of thinking forced on others or have them "removed" or "taught to behave". Let's send them to re-education camps right?

Who is the judge of what is right and wrong? What if I find someone who uses the word TOXIC to be aggressive and causes me distress? Should I simply ignore that person using the tools given me or should I be able to have that person "removed" because I disagree with how they behave?

If there are no tools then this is a different conversation as someone in that instance MUST serve as the judge, jury and executioner. But once you have the tools, I am sorry but it is absolutely Orwellian to expect anyone who behaves other than you personally want should be "removed". Because then the "problem" is not that these others are affecting you, it's that they simply exist.

I think there is a great difference between who those speak intelligently and advance their views and idiots who behave like morons on the internet. The latter I want removed from my games. I don't care to have them in my games. I did not ask for them to be removed from society. You're however equating my desire for them to be removed for their behaviour as me relegating them to the Gulag.

Because what you have stated is that you have the tools to ignore them, yet you "want these people to be removed" and "taught to behave".

When you go beyond protecting your own experience into deciding how OTHER people should behave you have clearly crossed the line. Whether it is about a game or a Gulag is only a matter of degree.

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

parrotpholk said:

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

I know I can turn it off but I want these people to be removed. To be honest I want them to be taught to behave. Yeah you read that correctly I want people to behave properly with respect and to think before they type and speak.

See this is what I think is fundamentally wrong. You admit to having the tools to simply ignore what you dislike, but it is not enough. You feel justified in having your way of thinking forced on others or have them "removed" or "taught to behave". Let's send them to re-education camps right?

Who is the judge of what is right and wrong? What if I find someone who uses the word TOXIC to be aggressive and causes me distress? Should I simply ignore that person using the tools given me or should I be able to have that person "removed" because I disagree with how they behave?

If there are no tools then this is a different conversation as someone in that instance MUST serve as the judge, jury and executioner. But once you have the tools, I am sorry but it is absolutely Orwellian to expect anyone who behaves other than you personally want should be "removed". Because then the "problem" is not that these others are affecting you, it's that they simply exist.

I think there is a great difference between who those speak intelligently and advance their views and idiots who behave like morons on the internet. The latter I want removed from my games. I don't care to have them in my games. I did not ask for them to be removed from society. You're however equating my desire for them to be removed for their behaviour as me relegating them to the Gulag.

Saying up front that I agree that I cannot stand how people act in games at times. They do things to be shocking and edgy more than anything and come off as ignorant.

That said you are given tools to silence these voices and should use it. You have zero moral high ground to preach to them how they should act. And removing them from "your" game when in fact you pay to use a service just like them and it is not "your" game is not the right thing. It opens up to many possibilities for abuse.

I do wish game makers would make the ignore tools more robust that way you could even auto ignore certain things would be nice so I did not have to click and ignore every moron I come across.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I think most folks behave poorly. This is why I pretty much just play with the same group of people for the last 15 years or so. That said, as long as I am given the tools to ignore them I could care less what they do and do not believe it is in any way my right to "teach them to behave".

I disagree with a TON of stuff on TV. I think the behaviors and speech shown is horrible. But I have a tool called changing the channel and that's what I do. I don't demand that those shows be removed or changed to behave how I think is suitable.

Be careful about also trusting corporations to do this as well. We rapidly approach days where corporations are being given control over much of our freedoms (including how we can speak or behave).

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

cheyane said:

Somehow that makes me a bad person that I think people should have certain standards of behaviour.

Not at all. I believe the same thing. Where you crossed the line was the point you decided that these people must be taught to behave the way you want or be expelled, even though you admit you have been given the tools to not be affected by their behavior.

cheyane · January 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

Somehow that makes me a bad person that I think people should have certain standards of behaviour.

Not at all. I believe the same thing. Where you crossed the line was the point you decided that these people must be taught to behave the way you want or be expelled, even though you admit you have been given the tools to not be affected by their behavior.

Really am I the one who developed the tool? I am only using the tool right? The decision was made by the people who created it and attached the parameters to it is it not? They will decide how the behaviour is judged not me. I am merely choosing the options given to me.

I think this is all a little too 'chicken little' for me. I think how well this idea of Blizzard and whether other companies adopt different variations in the end will be something that will decide how this progresses. Further I am not the person or individual that will determine what happens since I am far from powerful and in the end that is why there are checks and balances in every system. If you're worried about the larger implications that is where you should concentrate your efforts.

Old dog new tricks...

I don't know whether you played Everquest but many people always talked about how people ended up behaving and following rules because they could not find groups or got shunned as a result of stealing and so on. This is the type of behaviour that gets weeded out. I don't think I need to mute them when I can get them removed is in my opinion fine for games.

Extrapolating to TV shows or social consequences isn't relevant. We are discussing this Twitch and Overwatch thing specifically bringing in other examples just muddy it and the variables and examples do not apply at all. Neither do I expect to control those options.

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

cheyane said:

Really am I the one who developed the tool? I am only using the tool right? The decision was made by the people who created it and attached the parameters to it is it not? They will decide how the behaviour is judged not me. I am merely choosing the options given to me.

You made a public comment on the forums about how you would like to see people removed and their behavior forced to be changed. That is why I responded to you and not Blizzard.

cheyane · January 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

Really am I the one who developed the tool? I am only using the tool right? The decision was made by the people who created it and attached the parameters to it is it not? They will decide how the behaviour is judged not me. I am merely choosing the options given to me.

You made a public comment on the forums about how you would like to see people removed and their behavior forced to be changed. That is why I responded to you and not Blizzard.

Perhaps I expressed myself too strongly but you do not honestly think I can change those morons do you? I cannot even control my son.

It was wishful thinking on my part.

Come to think about it, I am actually very upset about networks spending money on reality shows instead of some of the great shows I watch that get cancelled as a result. That people who watch those idiot shows are stifling the chances that another season is developed for my favourite show. Damn it all to hell!

Perhaps I need a button for that too.

Horusra · January 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

I know I can turn it off but I want these people to be removed. To be honest I want them to be taught to behave. Yeah you read that correctly I want people to behave properly with respect and to think before they type and speak.

See this is what I think is fundamentally wrong. You admit to having the tools to simply ignore what you dislike, but it is not enough. You feel justified in having your way of thinking forced on others or have them "removed" or "taught to behave". Let's send them to re-education camps right?

Who is the judge of what is right and wrong? What if I find someone who uses the word TOXIC to be aggressive and causes me distress? Should I simply ignore that person using the tools given me or should I be able to have that person "removed" because I disagree with how they behave?

If there are no tools then this is a different conversation as someone in that instance MUST serve as the judge, jury and executioner. But once you have the tools, I am sorry but it is absolutely Orwellian to expect anyone who behaves other than you personally want should be "removed". Because then the "problem" is not that these others are affecting you, it's that they simply exist.

The community decides what is right and wrong. In government through voting or overthrowing... in games by continuing to play or leaving a game.

cheyane · January 2019

I don't think that works @Horusra because take League of Legends. The community is pretty nasty and yet the number of people playing just keeps increasing.

I also think the tools like muting someone is very limited because they restrict your ignore or mute list to a limited number. I do think it is better for people to be punished by bans and so on that can modify their behaviour by making sure they think before they type or speak.

6stack_Chris · January 2019

cheyane said:

I don't think that works @Horusra because take League of Legends. The community is pretty nasty and yet the number of people playing just keeps increasing.

I also think the tools like muting someone is very limited because they restrict your ignore or mute list to a limited number. I do think it is better for people to be punished by bans and so on that can modify their behaviour by making sure they think before they type or speak.

Didn't League of Legends use to have the Tribunal system? What happened to that?

Horusra · January 2019

cheyane said:

I don't think that works @Horusra because take League of Legends. The community is pretty nasty and yet the number of people playing just keeps increasing.

I also think the tools like muting someone is very limited because they restrict your ignore or mute list to a limited number. I do think it is better for people to be punished by bans and so on that can modify their behaviour by making sure they think before they type or speak.

my statement is in favor of government/people running a game having the right to restrict speech. If the people in the community do not like it they have to take the actions against their ruling body.

tweedledumb99 · January 2019

Iselin said:

NorseGod said:

I play games as a hobby. To get away from real world problems. Not be lectured or punished by the thought police.

You say you do but you obviously don't.

You're leaving a game you play not because of anything that game did or didn't do but because the company did something in the real world that rubs you the wrong way... and on the way out the door you want to lecture them.

Sounds to me like you bring your own real world problems into games not the other way around.

Damn, well said.

NorseGod · January 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

cheyane said:

Because what you have stated is that you have the tools to ignore them, yet you "want these people to be removed" and "taught to behave".

When you go beyond protecting your own experience into deciding how OTHER people should behave you have clearly crossed the line. Whether it is about a game or a Gulag is only a matter of degree.

There are people who just want control everything. It's clearly not about seeing or hearing naughty words or they would use the ignore feature. They want to take away choice. They want to punish Wrong Think.

I don't want to participate. However, it has become increasingly hard not to. Why? Because they believe that if you're not on their side, then you MUST be on the other side and will treat you as such.

For example, look at the earlier comments. People assumed that I'm complaining about not being able to use naughty words on the internet. The truth is, I don't do that.

I only communicate over the internet on this site, another site, group chat in games, and e-mail. That's it. I don't have social media accounts.

Here's the problem. People are hunting other people down for Wrong Think. I don't always agree what they deem as Wrong Think. Who decides? The people in currently in control?

What happens when the other group is in control with all of these powers? If we are to fear people for Wrong Think, wouldn't this get really abused when it's their turn to be in charge of punishment?

This is just going to hurt society further. When everybody is Hitler, then nobody is going to interact. Because they don't want to be banned or doxxed and lose their job, etc.

Kind of how some males are opting out of relationships because of the #metoo thing. Look at Henry Cavill.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/henry-cavill-says-hes-scared-date-post-metoo-doesnt-want-called-rapist-alone-155417524.html?bcmt=1

So we're all suppose to never talk to each other over the fear that our thoughts may hurt somebody's feelings? Yeah, that's going to end well.

If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton

SBFord · January 2019

OK that's it. Too many political hot potatoes in this last post. You were doing great till the 3rd to last paragraph and the link provided. Too bad. Closing.

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