Bottomline is theyre broke how they got there really doesnt matter.
But is is always funny when the 'proof' comments come in then people provide actual proof and people have meltdowns.
Only proof I need is they had had over 210 million given to them by saps and they still had to go get another 46 million just to stay afloat. they can spin it as an 'investment' all they want it was an end of the year tax write off for the guys who gave it and it was a bail out for the guys who got it.
The 'valuation' of the 'company' and 500 million or whatever is so laughable its not even funny. Even the IP is so generic anyone could make the exact same thing slap a different log on it (sort of how CIG did it in the first place) and there you have it. When nothing has ever existed the 'value' of its IP is dubious at best.
Even SQ 42 which had actual people that others have heard about voice acting it for them. Whats its 'value'? I would say 50 million because at best that is what the guy is looking to get out of it that gave them the 46 million. Assuming he wants it back. but even if he doesnt (I figure he flipped a coin) they have the write off already.
If these guys continually defending this cancerous piece of shit isnt enough to prove theyre getting paid then I dont know what else would.
Kefo said: ...money they said would only go towards development....
Uhh... Educative moment: Hmmm, seems they have almost 9 million dollars a year on income beyond the pledges, those that indeed are said to go back towards development. Shocker huh?
Fact is, they can spend money on marketing without spending the money from the pledges, obviously stuff as this is ignored when these topics are brought up with the usual "boo evil CIG spending backer money on X or Y!" narrative.
Not sure how that graph refutes what @Kefo said. The graph just shows a very general sources of income, not how it is spent.
If Pledges pay for developement and Subscriptions pays for Citizencon, what does Other Income pay for?
Another question could be, why are their offices located in some of the most expensive real estate areas in the world? IAre Pledges paying for those decisions or is Other Income paying for it?
Not sure how that graph refutes what Kefo said. The graph just shows a very general sources of income, not how it is spent.
If Pledges pay for developement and Subscriptions pays for Citizencon, what does Other Income pay for?
Another question could be, why are their offices located in some of the most expensive real estate areas in the world? IAre Pledges paying for those decisions or is Other Income paying for it?
You don't really know how money works do you?
Let me explain: They could have spent 3 million dollars last year on marketing, and CR could have spent the 5.8 million buying a mansion every month, that if the 34.9 million dollars or more was spent on development, they would have not spent the crowdfunding money into something else but development, on the yearly stats what matters is the totals.
They have a plus, the crowdfunded money is not 100% of it, hence the margin.
As for the studios, their offices locations have to be strategic to be able to retain talent, but their biggest office is on the UK that one known cheap location to develop games on, more than US. They have also optimized the US offices, Austin got refocused and they moved to the new LA office years ago from Santa Monica that is on a far less expensive location.
The real estate cost would be a fraction of development cost, such as locations with much higher wagers in development, such as with Austin. And yes, renting or buying studios has to be considered as part the game development budget when used for it.
If these guys continually defending this cancerous piece of shit isnt enough to prove theyre getting paid then I dont know what else would.
l have to cringe when the "moon landing was fake" guy comes here talking about proof lol
theres more proof SC is a game(which it isnt) than there is proof we landed on the moon.
Next time anything alive gets through the VA Belt let me know It fries shit we have now how did these guys get through it (multiple times) with jiffy pop containers run by computers with less power than a late 90 trakt phone.
Not saying you are wrong, but how do you know this, btw?
Because it has to work like that.
If I give you 10 million to go create me X game under a new company that you'll create, you'll have to rent/buy an office, hire people, buy furniture and workstations, the budget for such game project will include everything required to sustain that development operation, that goes from wagers to paying office rent and bills to the toilet paper on the bathroom.
Not saying you are wrong, but how do you know this, btw?
Because it has to work like that.
I didn't ask for your opinion as to how it should work. I asked how do you know CIG does it your way.
So, you're just guessing. I don't disagree with you. Why? Because it's reasonable to believe.
Notice that I didn't require proof? I could, knowing that it would be impossible for you to provide it. Does your lack of proof make your statement any less true?
These guys got computers (especially processors) from Intel as part of a promo campaign unrelated to SC.
The computers were put together by a PC Company (in this case Cyberpower PC).
The Optane in this computer came from CIG, which got it from Intel before that.
So Everything (!) in there came ultimately from Intel, not CIG.
So you do agree that the streamers were given those computers by CIG, Intel, and a PC company (in this case CyberpowerPC).
I'm not going to start speculating who gave what part of the computer. The three companies agreed to give streamer a complete computer together, and they gave the complete computer together.
You do not have to speculate.
Just read the Intel website specifically created for this promo campaign. Read their mission statement. All of this to be found if you scroll up. Link and Quote.
Kefo said: ...money they said would only go towards development....
Uhh... Educative moment: Hmmm, seems they have almost 9 million dollars a year on income beyond the pledges, those that indeed are said to go back towards development. Shocker huh?
Fact is, they can spend money on marketing without spending the money from the crowdfund, obviously stuff as this is ignored when these topics are brought up with the usual "boo evil CIG spending backer money on X or Y!" narrative.
If you want to refute my point then show me their balance sheet. All that shows is the money they brought in and not what it was spent on. Doesn’t matter they have 9 million more a year beyond pledges as they said it would all be spent on development.
Looks like the boo evil CIG narrative isn’t a narrative but something based on things they’ve said and walked back on.
I didn't ask for your opinion as to how it should work. I asked how do you know CIG does it your way.
So, you're just guessing. I don't disagree with you. Why? Because it's reasonable to believe.
Notice that I didn't require proof? I could, knowing that it would be impossible for you to provide it. Does your lack of proof make your statement any less true?
See the point I'm making?
This post of yours is silly really.
It's not on opinion, the costs of buying or renting an office for a game development project will be deducted from a budget, in many projects the studio itself is created just to work on that one title, like with SC, the devs won't have anywhere to work if the budget won't cover up the studio costs it's rather logical.
CIG financials listed this in a more organized way:
Capex here would be capital expenditure, that is the money the company uses to buy, maintain or improve its fixed assets, this would cover the buildings, office furniture, hardware, etc.
It's all part of the budget because it is required by it. The Publishing is another example CIG maintains early versions of the game on a live service, the server costs, the bandwith, customer support services, etc... it's all getting deducted from it because it has to.
When one hears "money goes back into development", one has to understand that englobes a hell lot of stuff that are requisites for such operation, it's one reality beyond opinion, bigger companies with publishers and all have quite complex setups but CIG with SC is a linear thing, 1 company with multiple studios doing 1 game.
If you want to refute my point then show me their balance sheet. All that shows is the money they brought in and not what it was spent on. Doesn’t matter they have 9 million more a year beyond pledges as they said it would all be spent on development.
You only need the totals as this plays with totals, either way:
On a year they crowdfunded 34 million, only the salaries and the overhead dev costs already overcome the crowdfunded totals, that simply means they've put quite beyond their 34m crowdfunding income towards game dev.
As for the other point as shown, as the crowdfund does not represent 100% of income they can still spend over 8 million on the year on non-dev beyond crowdfunding money as that is their margin, now the financials do show is that the costs are quite higher so even that revenue is being put back to sustain operative costs. The point ends for them to spend backer money on stuff like marketing they have to spend over those 8 million a year on it, just impossible as is due to game dev costs being quite higher than crowdfunded numbers.
If you want to refute my point then show me their balance sheet. All that shows is the money they brought in and not what it was spent on. Doesn’t matter they have 9 million more a year beyond pledges as they said it would all be spent on development.
You only need the totals as this plays with totals, either way:
On a year they crowdfunded 34 million, only the salaries and the overhead dev costs already overcome the crowdfunded totals, that simply means they've put quite beyond their 34m crowdfunding income towards game dev.
As for the other point as shown, as the crowdfund does not represent 100% of income they can still spend over 8 million on the year on non-dev beyond crowdfunding money as that is their margin, now the financials do show is that the costs are quite higher so even that revenue is being put back to sustain operative costs. The point ends for them to spend backer money on stuff like marketing they have to spend over those 8 million a year on it, just impossible as is due to game dev costs being quite higher than crowdfunded numbers.
You’re still missing the point. If CR said all money would go to game dev then all money should be going to game dev. Just because they get a 46m injection from a private investor doesn’t mean that CR now gets a free ticket to buy himself a yacht because that 46m is above the amount they brought in from sales.
And again you need to show me a balance sheet to make any of this work, preferably one that has been audited by a reputable third party but we all know that’s never going to happen because it’s CIG.
If this were CR’s first foray into game dev and this was near the beginning of the project I’d be more inclined to believe something the company throws out in terms of money spent vs money earned and I’d be more on your side. But this isn’t CR’s first time and I know his history with past ventures and his history with this venture and the lying and hiding of information.
Was releasing the financials a step in the right direction? Absolutely but it’s only a half step and I’d wager a bet it was done under duress due to the new board members and keeping CR on a very short leash
You’re still missing the point. If CR said all money would go to game dev then all money should be going to game dev.
The point that I am making is that backer money goes back to development and the financials make that clear just by the mere numbers on direct dev costs.
The statements hit with the crowdfunding income, don't come with "all means all" because since the very start of subscriptions as the point of them that money is not going to direct dev yet to the community and events front that have their own marketing aspect, that representing 3 million on 2017.
You’re still missing the point. If CR said all money would go to game dev then all money should be going to game dev.
The point that I am making is that backer money goes back to development and the financials make that clear just by the mere numbers on direct dev costs. That is all.
The statements hit with the crowdfunding income, don't come with "all means all" because since the very start of subscriptions as the point of them that money is not going to direct dev yet to the community, marketing, and events front.
All means all....is that kinda like truth isn’t truth?
So you’re telling me now that the subscriptions are what’s paying for marketing and events? I already know the subs are for the community content which is what they promised and that’s fine. But if the subs are also paying for community events and marketing then the fan base is a lot less intelligent then I first thought.
Backer: here’s subscription money to pay for community content CIG: perfect! We are also going to use that money to hammer you with marketing content and put on a event called citcon Backer: awesome? How do I attend this convention? CIG: you pay us another 20 dollars to watch the livestream or 80(not sure 2018 ticket prices in cad) dollars to be able to attend in person! Backer: so I’ve already paid for the event with my sub money but you’re going to charge me again? CIG: Yes! Backer: Perfect! Take my money!
All means all....is that kinda like truth isn’t truth?
So you’re telling me now that the subscriptions are what’s paying for marketing and events? I already know the subs are for the community content which is what they promised and that’s fine. But if the subs are also paying for community events and marketing then the fan base is a lot less intelligent then I first thought.
It's about the whole context and not nitpicking playing pretend. We all know subs do not go directly towards development, that was always been disclaimed since forever and it's why it's excluded from the funding counter.
Now talking about intelligence... the community content is a mix of all those and has a marketing drive (in here and anywhere else), from the promotion of what they work on, or a new update release, varied trailers, to stuff like community giveaways/competitions and all. Things like Citizencon being their biggest investment on this gets supported from both sales of tickets to backers and sponsorships.
The endgame of this being that one way or the other income goes towards the game development budget as it is used for it on this case for community content, but they still did a separation from the pledged money early on.
They already fixed thousands of bugs and are going strong, supported by their fanbase and player testers writing detailed bug reports.
Making SC by squashing bugs one after the other. This may be a "bug" planet ;-), but not for long :-D
Have fun
Lol. 2019 and still "squashing bugs." What a joke. I remember when you people were promising 2016 for SQ42 (In fact 2015 was a promise made as well). And then 2017. Most fans were not into predicting 2018 though. You probably learned your lesson by then. Strangely and uncomfortably, it appears you have failed to learn the lesson again about 2019/2020.
It reminds me of politics. When you have a bunch of people laughing and taunting at the ridiculousness of blind belief in something, it only makes those people dig in deeper. And you guy have dug in to the center of the planet.
Comments
But is is always funny when the 'proof' comments come in then people provide actual proof and people have meltdowns.
Only proof I need is they had had over 210 million given to them by saps and they still had to go get another 46 million just to stay afloat. they can spin it as an 'investment' all they want it was an end of the year tax write off for the guys who gave it and it was a bail out for the guys who got it.
The 'valuation' of the 'company' and 500 million or whatever is so laughable its not even funny. Even the IP is so generic anyone could make the exact same thing slap a different log on it (sort of how CIG did it in the first place) and there you have it. When nothing has ever existed the 'value' of its IP is dubious at best.
Even SQ 42 which had actual people that others have heard about voice acting it for them. Whats its 'value'? I would say 50 million because at best that is what the guy is looking to get out of it that gave them the 46 million. Assuming he wants it back. but even if he doesnt (I figure he flipped a coin) they have the write off already.
If these guys continually defending this cancerous piece of shit isnt enough to prove theyre getting paid then I dont know what else would.
If Pledges pay for developement and Subscriptions pays for Citizencon, what does Other Income pay for?
Another question could be, why are their offices located in some of the most expensive real estate areas in the world? IAre Pledges paying for those decisions or is Other Income paying for it?
Let me explain: They could have spent 3 million dollars last year on marketing, and CR could have spent the 5.8 million buying a mansion every month, that if the 34.9 million dollars or more was spent on development, they would have not spent the crowdfunding money into something else but development, on the yearly stats what matters is the totals.
They have a plus, the crowdfunded money is not 100% of it, hence the margin.
As for the studios, their offices locations have to be strategic to be able to retain talent, but their biggest office is on the UK that one known cheap location to develop games on, more than US. They have also optimized the US offices, Austin got refocused and they moved to the new LA office years ago from Santa Monica that is on a far less expensive location.
The real estate cost would be a fraction of development cost, such as locations with much higher wagers in development, such as with Austin. And yes, renting or buying studios has to be considered as part the game development budget when used for it.
Next time anything alive gets through the VA Belt let me know It fries shit we have now how did these guys get through it (multiple times) with jiffy pop containers run by computers with less power than a late 90 trakt phone.
Not saying you are wrong, but how do you know this, btw?
If I give you 10 million to go create me X game under a new company that you'll create, you'll have to rent/buy an office, hire people, buy furniture and workstations, the budget for such game project will include everything required to sustain that development operation, that goes from wagers to paying office rent and bills to the toilet paper on the bathroom.
So, you're just guessing. I don't disagree with you. Why? Because it's reasonable to believe.
Notice that I didn't require proof? I could, knowing that it would be impossible for you to provide it. Does your lack of proof make your statement any less true?
See the point I'm making?
Just read the Intel website specifically created for this promo campaign. Read their mission statement.
All of this to be found if you scroll up. Link and Quote.
Have fun
Looks like the boo evil CIG narrative isn’t a narrative but something based on things they’ve said and walked back on.
It's not on opinion, the costs of buying or renting an office for a game development project will be deducted from a budget, in many projects the studio itself is created just to work on that one title, like with SC, the devs won't have anywhere to work if the budget won't cover up the studio costs it's rather logical.
CIG financials listed this in a more organized way:
Capex here would be capital expenditure, that is the money the company uses to buy, maintain or improve its fixed assets, this would cover the buildings, office furniture, hardware, etc.
It's all part of the budget because it is required by it. The Publishing is another example CIG maintains early versions of the game on a live service, the server costs, the bandwith, customer support services, etc... it's all getting deducted from it because it has to.
When one hears "money goes back into development", one has to understand that englobes a hell lot of stuff that are requisites for such operation, it's one reality beyond opinion, bigger companies with publishers and all have quite complex setups but CIG with SC is a linear thing, 1 company with multiple studios doing 1 game.
On a year they crowdfunded 34 million, only the salaries and the overhead dev costs already overcome the crowdfunded totals, that simply means they've put quite beyond their 34m crowdfunding income towards game dev.
As for the other point as shown, as the crowdfund does not represent 100% of income they can still spend over 8 million on the year on non-dev beyond crowdfunding money as that is their margin, now the financials do show is that the costs are quite higher so even that revenue is being put back to sustain operative costs. The point ends for them to spend backer money on stuff like marketing they have to spend over those 8 million a year on it, just impossible as is due to game dev costs being quite higher than crowdfunded numbers.
And again you need to show me a balance sheet to make any of this work, preferably one that has been audited by a reputable third party but we all know that’s never going to happen because it’s CIG.
If this were CR’s first foray into game dev and this was near the beginning of the project I’d be more inclined to believe something the company throws out in terms of money spent vs money earned and I’d be more on your side. But this isn’t CR’s first time and I know his history with past ventures and his history with this venture and the lying and hiding of information.
Was releasing the financials a step in the right direction? Absolutely but it’s only a half step and I’d wager a bet it was done under duress due to the new board members and keeping CR on a very short leash
Yes or no would have been fine.
The statements hit with the crowdfunding income, don't come with "all means all" because since the very start of subscriptions as the point of them that money is not going to direct dev yet to the community and events front that have their own marketing aspect, that representing 3 million on 2017.
So you’re telling me now that the subscriptions are what’s paying for marketing and events? I already know the subs are for the community content which is what they promised and that’s fine. But if the subs are also paying for community events and marketing then the fan base is a lot less intelligent then I first thought.
Backer: here’s subscription money to pay for community content
CIG: perfect! We are also going to use that money to hammer you with marketing content and put on a event called citcon
Backer: awesome? How do I attend this convention?
CIG: you pay us another 20 dollars to watch the livestream or 80(not sure 2018 ticket prices in cad) dollars to be able to attend in person!
Backer: so I’ve already paid for the event with my sub money but you’re going to charge me again?
CIG: Yes!
Backer: Perfect! Take my money!
Now talking about intelligence... the community content is a mix of all those and has a marketing drive (in here and anywhere else), from the promotion of what they work on, or a new update release, varied trailers, to stuff like community giveaways/competitions and all. Things like Citizencon being their biggest investment on this gets supported from both sales of tickets to backers and sponsorships.
The endgame of this being that one way or the other income goes towards the game development budget as it is used for it on this case for community content, but they still did a separation from the pledged money early on.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ProtectiveFragileQuailCeilingCat
Making SC by squashing bugs one after the other. This may be a "bug" planet ;-), but not for long :-D
Have fun
It reminds me of politics. When you have a bunch of people laughing and taunting at the ridiculousness of blind belief in something, it only makes those people dig in deeper. And you guy have dug in to the center of the planet.
..Cake..
Dude, what exactly do you think all these people are wanting refunds for and pissed at watching this whole thing get mishandled?
Seriously, do you even read what people say about the game or are you just here for spamming propaganda?
There are 3 of you here. 3.
Maybe, one of you should send a "bug report" over to the boss and let him know why people are upset and new backers are drying up.