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What Can MMOs Learn from Red Dead Redemption 2? - TheHiveLeader

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 4,514
edited January 2019 in Videos Discussion

imageWhat Can MMOs Learn from Red Dead Redemption 2? - TheHiveLeader

Red Dead Remption 2 is a really good game, however it's not perfect. But that doesn't mean it can't teach us something. Namely, that doesn't mean it can't teach MMOS something. There are a few things that TheHiveLeader thinks Read Dead Redemption 2 could teach the faltering genre, and help lead it to a better future. Let's find out what they are!

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  • BlueThunderBearBlueThunderBear Member RarePosts: 228
    Remember when MMOs became popular by creating a rich living world in which players could fully immerse themselves and live a virtual life? Now they need to be reminded of that by the people who got popular by simulating the murder of hookers.
    HarikenTsiyaViper482AnskiercraftseekerBeezerbeezPanserbjorne39ScotThaharTierlessand 1 other.
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,432
    MMO's back in 99/2000 really had it right. But what we got now is the fault of the genre going mainstream. I can't even bring myself to play modern MMO's for more than two weeks. And the community in then is just toxic today.
  • bigcheeseukbigcheeseuk Member UncommonPosts: 125
    edited January 2019
    The hilarity of the drunk scene in RDR2 tells you the answer.... an engaging and realistic story.Plus good gameplay or course. Assassin's creed origins and odyssey also give big clues as to where it's all going wrong for MMOs
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    RDR2? can be reduced to 'Single player good, Multiplayer Bad' maybe one day take2 will get a clue and start being more consumer friendly. :/
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,942
    Great review. Almost makes me want to go out and buy a PS4. Glad you mentioned GW2 and ESO as I was just thinking those are the games this reminds me of. I can go off the beaten path and find all kinds of interesting experiences.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 3,968

    Phry said:

    RDR2? can be reduced to 'Single player good, Multiplayer Bad' maybe one day take2 will get a clue and start being more consumer friendly. :/

    I agree, there should be an article titled what can Red Dead Online learn from MMO's.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,095
    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,844

    DMKano said:

    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.

    That lesson may have been mandatory.

    And at the end of the day RDR2 is an excellent single player with a "free" on-line extra - which makes its tough to criticise if you don't like it.
  • ScellowScellow Member RarePosts: 398
    Sandbox type of gameplay works the best for multiplayer games
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 376
    MMOs are done for now, maybe in another 5 years things might have a chance but I don't see that happening either.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,847

    DMKano said:

    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.

    Yea instead of making a good MMO people want to play let's just stop making them. We know DMKano….according to you MMOs were never really good, it's all in our heads. smh.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • cochscochs Member UncommonPosts: 92
    Players consuming content faster then developers can keep up has been a thing as long as games existed. Hand crafted/scripted content like RDR2 scales poorly in terms of time/cost. You could make it work as a sub game if all the stars aligned right and you got Wow level sub counts. But that can't scale well industry wide, the market isn't big enough to support multiple studios using that model.

    The fact that is this is just a really hard problem that we have no good solutions for. Pvp has shown to scale very well in time/cost. Anything where player creativity can impact or even drive gameplay scales the content. Usually it just adds new variations but that's still new in a sense. So pvp likely has a lot of untapped potential.

    The RDR2 approach has very little potential for mmo's. The only tools on the horizon that might make it scale better is machine learning, but the type of content RDR2 has machine learning is nowhere near being able to create.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Now that Trino is gone, this is @DMKano in regard to MMOs:

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,501
    LMAO not a damn thing. The SINGLE player part was OK, way over rated by most but thats what happens. The multi Player part was a complete disaster. And shows just how limited any sort of MMO possibilities are.

    So amazing how these articles get written and the irony is so thick its palpable. Basically every MMO that has tried the past few years shows just how little people care for what theyre offering. But also mostly due to the stupidity of the developers in forcing shitty mechanics on people that not many people want.

    Life is Feudal should have been an unreal MMO. But full loot PvP and open warfare time periods (they did change some of the particulars) killed that game before it started. Landscape manipulation in that game second to none. As was the map and how spread out it was. Atlas ironically similar (even though theyre claiming early access) Large open world that gets really small when zergs claim everything (usually offline) and another stupid open PvP with offline looting and raiding with bodies always online.

    So what do these have in common? No questing. Even though everyone says they dont want questing if not for questing there isnt anything to do. Beyond PvP and exploration and exploration is extremely finite and PvP isnt something most want to do.

    But that is also the rub. No developer anywhere has ever been able to keep up with the people devouring the content as they make it. So then it becomes a part time thing where people stay for a bit doing a few things not quest related but eventually leave until new content is added. ALTS and secondary accounts (for masochists) help somewhat.

    ESO is a pretty decent MMO but even it gets boring after awhile. I havent done half the content (quests) in it and I still get bored out of my mind even though I do see 'different' things when I do play. Mostly because there arent any goals either. Which is what most of these other games suffer from. The goals are not 'end game' not really sure what they are.

    Atlas right now is new and different and people are leveling different skills sometimes even respeccing. Once they have done all the trees and built all the boats that is the end of that game for 80-85% of the people playing it. Because what else is there to do? Kill a hydra? Not in the game but once it s and once you do it then what?

    All games these days suffer from it. Even WoW but they mask it a little better with their gated and timed out content (I guess they still have that). So people cant just rush through and get everything all at once.

  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    A bunch of terrible arguments that would make things even worse for the most part some valid criticisms but terrible rationale instead of better solutions. Progression is what makes RPG's fun, take that away and its just an adventure game, ever play an mmo to level cap and get the best gear...i'll bet you stopped playing shortly after or started an alt didnt you :). Levels just serve as a measuring point for character development its no different than your health and stats magically increasing without a level to trigger them.

    As he said most of his points only make a small amount of sense at first glance because he is talking about single player which has nothing to do with any mmorpg anyways. If anything what mmorpg's are missing is deep complex systems to ensure you have extensive character development. Everything has been cut down and simplified into generic boredom for the "casual" player who plays 4 hours a month every other month.

    Great points on filling the world to make it more useful and fun to explore, its a big part of what has been lost we now have "quest hubs".

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,598
    Every time I see this game I am dying for it to come on the PC. I have a PS4 but I cannot play it because I suck with controllers.
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,432
    edited January 2019
    I just want single player games to come back huge in 2019. I am so sick of everything being online as the only way to go in gaming. Someone made a video of all the single player RPG's coming out this year. I will even play the not so good ones over multiplayer or MMO's now.
  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,126
    How to maximize boredom through the fewest shitty game mechanics such as stretches of empty crap, pointless random encounters, and lack of decent fast travel, clunky controls, slow looting, the worst bounty system ever conceived, etc.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    DMKano said:
    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.
    I think a lot of companies are also going to learn the hard way that always online games as a service aren't going to be the big money maker they thought they would be. Maybe not Rockstar, but with the big paradigm shift to juggernauts such as Fortnite, that big pool of money is only going to be spent on a few big name games.

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • LtldoggLtldogg Member UncommonPosts: 274
    Modern MMO's and anything after like 2002 are just too easy, too theme-parky, too fast-paced, etc for me. I've tried to like many and some have a great lore like EQ2, LOTRO and ESO, but they are just not satisfying to me and thus I continue to play early EQ.
  • vtravivtravi Member UncommonPosts: 365
    Its funny this game is beautifully crafted and really a work of art. But as a game I didn't enjoy playing it. The combat was clunky. Just moving your character was slow and didn't really feel right. I just didn't enjoy playing the game. The world is stunning though. I also am not a Western kind of person. If this was Fantasy like Witcher I am sure I would have loved it. It is all about personal preference
  • Panserbjorne39Panserbjorne39 Member UncommonPosts: 142
    I think mmorpgs fail hard at being fun, engaging single player games, yet that is what they have become over time. So you've got a shitty RPG lite mmorpg versus a game like RDR2 and the winner is clear. The single player RPG provides a superior experience in every way.
    Until you want to play with your buddies. Mmorpg are super fun if you have an active guild and or group of buddies to run content with. But if you're like me with no gaming buddies and maybe an hour a night to play I will choose the Witcher 3 or Xcom or RDR2 every time. Though I dip into MMORPG for a little while occasionally just out ob boredom or in between better games.
  • kinkyJalepenokinkyJalepeno Member UncommonPosts: 1,043

    DMKano said:

    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.

    Someone's still butt hurt their master Trino is dead..
  • BananableBananable Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited January 2019
    "What Can MMOs Learn from Single-player (boring) console product that got features from MMOs?"


    "Red Dead Remption 2 is a really good game"

    Really? Thats a game? I thought its a movie.

    Seriously. First one was boring with empty world and weird missions. (Cattle Herding, so exciting!)
    And people (devs) for some reason thought that this one is gonna be popular same (or even more) as GTAV.

    RDR was about 6hrs, GTAV - 7 and this one is 20! PURE POINTLESS BORING BLABBERING THAT YOU CANNOT SKIP! YAY!

    (even the devs admit that (dialog with Swanson), but they still keep doing it. Its so annoying!)


    He got rare white horse (1:39:00) look what happened:

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,095

    DMKano said:

    What they can learn is - stop wasting time making MMOs.

    Someone's still butt hurt their master Trino is dead..

    Lol - maybe time to wake up and look at the reality of MMO development today

    Outside of indie studios, name a single studio that is still working on AAA MMO games that are not survival/battle royale type games?

    Hell is there even a single non-indie studio left in the west that is solely focused on MMOs? 

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