Noob upgrading my PC. Have a couple of questions

vtravi · December 2018

Hello I am upgrading my 7+ year old PC and I have a few questions.

I will get a Nvidia 1070 with a Intel i5 9600k.

I already have a 750W PSU do I need to get a new one?

Also I have 8GB of Ram original to my old PC, do I need to buy newer RAM? I am happy to stay with 8GB just not sure if that will work with my new Motherboard (which is a MSI z730 A Pro)

Thanks

Dimmizer · December 2018

You'll need a z390 Motherboard to support the 9600k as they're not backwards compatible.

I'd recommend getting at least 16GB but 8 can do fine depending on the titles you're trying to play. If you're just playing League of Legends or other minor games 8GB is fine but Battlefield V n such I'd get 16GB. Your Powersupply is fine.

Vrika · December 2018

Don't upgrade a 7 years old PC, buy a new one:

Your old RAM won't be compatible. You'll need to buy new one

You can keep using your old PSU if you insist, but you have to be prepared for two things:
1: If the old PSU breaks it can cause power spikes or such that also break other components
2: You might need to buy some adapters to connect new devices to very old PSU

You can keep using your old HDD (as long as it has SATA connection, a 7 years old HDD should already have) as long as you understand that hard disks don't last forever and using a hard disk beyond its intended life span means increased risk of losing all data on that hard disk.
Usually it's a good idea to use old hard disks as secondary drivers for more storage space, but buy a new hard disk as primary drive. Doing that means you could also get an SSD which is a lot faster.

Windows 7 and later are good for old computer, but for a new computer you should get Windows 10 because older operating systems don't fully support newest hardware. I don't know which OS you have.

You can safely and without problems use the case and any optical drivers from your old computer. Though with optical drivers check that they're using SATA connection (7 years should have that), and with case you should check that its PSU it placed on the bottom of the case (really old models had it at top of the case) and that it has plenty of room for your new GPU. If you've bought a good case 7 years ago it's still usable.

All in all there are so few parts in a 7 years old PC that you should keep using, that it's often better keep that 7 years old PC intact and buy a completely new PC instead.

Vrika · December 2018

vtravi said:

my new Motherboard (which is a MSI z730 A Pro)

Some Z730 motherboards require a BIOS update to support newest Intel processor.

The problem with this is that usually BIOS update can't be done done unless you have processor that is compatible with motherboard's current BIOS version.

If you buy Z730 motherboard be very careful to check with the seller that it already has updated BIOS version or that you've got some way of updating its BIOS. Otherwise don't buy.

Scot · December 2018

I agree with Vrika, unless you have been upgrading your PC over the past seven years it will be better to just buy a new PC. The fact you are asking questions shows you are not the sort of person who can buy an upgrade and be sure it will work as expected. The architecture of your PC is old, mix and match is a tricky business and relying on forum answers is just taking a big risk.

Quizzical · December 2018

It would help for you to tell us exactly what you already have already. Whether it's reasonable to continue using old parts depends tremendously on what those old parts are.

Your old RAM is almost certainly DDR3. Anything modern will require DDR4 instead. It will also be a different CPU socket, which also requires a new motherboard. A seven year old power supply or storage should not be assumed to still be reliable. Power supplies degrade as their capacitors age.

If you're replacing the video card, too, then at that point, you're replacing nearly the entire computer. At that point, Vrika is right: you should think replacement, not upgrade.

Don't rush off to buy parts and hope everything is compatible. Wait until you figure out exactly which collection of parts you're going to buy before making any purchases. When people come in here and say, "I just bought this random thing. Is it any good?" The answer is almost always, "No, that's terrible."

Slapshot1188 · December 2018

If you do decide to upgrade or buy parts to build I recommend a site like http://www.pcpartpicker.com/ which will show you incompatibilities with parts.

Ridelynn · December 2018

Vrika said:

Don't upgrade a 7 years old PC, buy a new one:

...

All in all there are so few parts in a 7 years old PC that you should keep using, that it's often better keep that 7 years old PC intact and buy a completely new PC instead.

This is the best advice for your situation.

Sell your existing computer if you want (it's often worth more as an intact running unit than trying to part it out - if nothing else they get very nice tax deductions as a donation).

Upgrading an older computer, you end up with a bunch of parts that your otherwise stuck with and can't recoup much value out of, if at all. And you don't really save any money.

kjempff · December 2018

Since you are thinking about replacing the 80% of the components (money wise) anyways, I would either...
1. Save for a completely new rig
2. Buy a gf1070 now and a completely new rig without a gfx card later on and put the gf1070 into that. The gf1070 should fit in your old motherbord, and a 700w psu should be enough to pull it..but measure if the gf1070 will fit (those cards can be too long for tight cases)

vtravi · December 2018

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am planning on basiclly building a new PC. My case should be good. Everything else I will probally replace. I am trying to keep the cost around $1000.

I am PLanning on getting

1 x ($354.99) ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 STRIX-GTX1070-8G-GAMING 8GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready Video Card

($104.54) MSI Z370-A PRO LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z370 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

($259)Intel Core i5-8600K Coffee Lake 6-Core 3.6 GHz (4.3 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 95W BX80684I58600K Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 630

($69)Seasonic FOCUS series SSR-750FM 750W 80 + Gold Power Supply, Semi-Modular, ATX12V/EPS12V, Compact 140 mm Size

($120)CORSAIR Vengeance RGB DRAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Desktop Memory Model CMR16GX4M2D3000C1

($107)SAMSUNG T5 500GB 2.50" USB 3.1 V-NAND Portable SSD MU-PA500B/AM

Will this work or is it a disaster?

Slapshot1188 · December 2018

Plug that into pcpartpicker.com

kjempff · December 2018

@vtravi sound good to me, hard to see anything wrong.
16gb dual channel check, gold power supply (don't know that brand though) check, ssd, coffee lake cpu check, low noise (aka fans will stop at low twmperature) gfxcard check, quality motherboard check.
You may consider a better than stock cooler, mostly for the noise level though.
If you order the parts and build it youself, how about the Windows license?
Will your old case fit the gf1070? That Asus is a big one.
Does your old case have an intake and out fan and dust filters? Highly recommended.

Quizzical · December 2018

Is there some particular reason why you picked that video card instead of this one:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814126119

The one you linked probably has better build quality. But it's also a difference of $50. Or were you going to buy it elsewhere at a lower price?

Above, you said that you were getting a Core i5-9600K, but now you say a Core i5-8600K. That's a difference of 300 MHz in the max turbo, which is considerable. Make sure that you're getting what you think you are. With prices as they are right now, I'd either spend more to get the 9600K like you said, or save some money by going with this (which would also require a different motherboard):

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113497

If you found that power supply for $69, then have at it. Good deal.

The memory is overvolted and presumably also overclocked, which carries all of the usual caveats of overclocking. There are a whole lot of 16 GB memory kits that are 2666 MHz or 2800 MHz DDR4 without overvolting that are a lot cheaper than that. The extra clock speed really only matters if you're feeding an integrated GPU or using a Ryzen CPU that clocks the infinity fabric the same as the memory controllers, and it looks like you're doing neither.

Why are you looking at an external SSD? An internal SSD will be both considerably cheaper and considerably faster. External drives exist for a reason, but that's not where you want to install an operating system. Normally, you'd only want to use an external drive for some purpose that the computer can still work fine without the external drive attached.

Quizzical · December 2018

If the only thing you're going to keep from the old computer is the case, then I'd just buy a new case and keep the old computer intact, unless it's dead or something.

vtravi · December 2018

Quizzical said:

Is there some particular reason why you picked that video card instead of this one:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814126119

The one you linked probably has better build quality. But it's also a difference of $50. Or were you going to buy it elsewhere at a lower price?

Above, you said that you were getting a Core i5-9600K, but now you say a Core i5-8600K. That's a difference of 300 MHz in the max turbo, which is considerable. Make sure that you're getting what you think you are. With prices as they are right now, I'd either spend more to get the 9600K like you said, or save some money by going with this (which would also require a different motherboard):

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113497

If you found that power supply for $69, then have at it. Good deal.

The memory is overvolted and presumably also overclocked, which carries all of the usual caveats of overclocking. There are a whole lot of 16 GB memory kits that are 2666 MHz or 2800 MHz DDR4 without overvolting that are a lot cheaper than that. The extra clock speed really only matters if you're feeding an integrated GPU or using a Ryzen CPU that clocks the infinity fabric the same as the memory controllers, and it looks like you're doing neither.

Why are you looking at an external SSD? An internal SSD will be both considerably cheaper and considerably faster. External drives exist for a reason, but that's not where you want to install an operating system. Normally, you'd only want to use an external drive for some purpose that the computer can still work fine without the external drive attached.

The GPU seemed a better quality. The extra $50 seemed worth it.

The reason I switched processors is so that I didn't have to spend more on a motherboard. The 9600 requires a motherboard that costs $50 more and what I read the motherboard and provessor doesn't increase proformance as much as a GPU. I could be wrong about that but that was my reasoning.

The external SSD was mainly so I could transfer files to my laptop easily. But if it is slower than internal I may just go with an internal. I didn't know there was a differnce in preformance.

Thank for all the info. This is a learning experiance to me.

Quizzical · December 2018

If you want to transfer files between a desktop and a laptop, one way to do it is to get an internal SSD to install stuff on, like this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156177

And then use a USB flash drive when you want to copy files, like this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAFJ86WT3941

Another way to do it is to enable file sharing on the files you want to move and just copy them over your LAN.

Quizzical · December 2018

For memory, the stock voltage of DDR4 is 1.2 V. Any DDR4 modules that list a higher voltage are basically saying, we overvolted and overclocked it and this is how fast it runs. The memory will still be under warranty, so it's not like it's liquid nitrogen overclocking. But still, it's overvolting and overclocking, and I wouldn't pay a considerable price premium for a factory overclock.

Ridelynn · December 2018

kjempff said:

gold power supply (don't know that brand though) check,

Seasonic is one of the best PSU brands available today.

Ridelynn · December 2018

Quizzical said:

If you want to transfer files between a desktop and a laptop, one way to do it is to get an internal SSD to install stuff on, like this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156177

And then use a USB flash drive when you want to copy files, like this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAFJ86WT3941

Another way to do it is to enable file sharing on the files you want to move and just copy them over your LAN.

Going via LAN sounds like the best option, and on paper I entirely agree.

The problem is that Windows 10 Home File Sharing is utter butt, and getting it to work reliably is entirely too difficult. In the time it takes me to try to get the two computers to actually talk to each other over a LAN, get frustrated enough that I have pulled out enough hair, I then just resort to using a thumb drive (or USB external enclosure, or Linux-based FTP service)

Every time.

Not that Windows File Sharing was ever an overly great thing, but it at the very least use to mostly work.

Ridelynn · December 2018

vtravi said:

Quizzical said:

Is there some particular reason why you picked that video card instead of this one:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814126119

The one you linked probably has better build quality. But it's also a difference of $50. Or were you going to buy it elsewhere at a lower price?

Above, you said that you were getting a Core i5-9600K, but now you say a Core i5-8600K. That's a difference of 300 MHz in the max turbo, which is considerable. Make sure that you're getting what you think you are. With prices as they are right now, I'd either spend more to get the 9600K like you said, or save some money by going with this (which would also require a different motherboard):

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113497

If you found that power supply for $69, then have at it. Good deal.

The memory is overvolted and presumably also overclocked, which carries all of the usual caveats of overclocking. There are a whole lot of 16 GB memory kits that are 2666 MHz or 2800 MHz DDR4 without overvolting that are a lot cheaper than that. The extra clock speed really only matters if you're feeding an integrated GPU or using a Ryzen CPU that clocks the infinity fabric the same as the memory controllers, and it looks like you're doing neither.

Why are you looking at an external SSD? An internal SSD will be both considerably cheaper and considerably faster. External drives exist for a reason, but that's not where you want to install an operating system. Normally, you'd only want to use an external drive for some purpose that the computer can still work fine without the external drive attached.

The GPU seemed a better quality. The extra $50 seemed worth it.

The reason I switched processors is so that I didn't have to spend more on a motherboard. The 9600 requires a motherboard that costs $50 more and what I read the motherboard and provessor doesn't increase proformance as much as a GPU. I could be wrong about that but that was my reasoning.

The external SSD was mainly so I could transfer files to my laptop easily. But if it is slower than internal I may just go with an internal. I didn't know there was a differnce in preformance.

Thank for all the info. This is a learning experiance to me.

No issues with the GPU. External SSD usually isn't worth it over anything else external - the USB interface is a pretty big bottleneck unless you are getting some of the high end Thunderbolt or USB 3.1 stuff (and that isn't cheap). Especially if it's just a one-time file transfer or something, either get an external SATA-USB cradle and use your old SATA drive from your old computer temporarily (and put it back once your done to have a working old computer again), or just get a standard nearly-disposable thumb drive. I highly recommend the cradle, they are a nice piece of gear to have laying around.

The CPU - 9000 series is supported on 300 series motherboards - the one you selected should work fine with it with a BIOS update (which it may have out of the box):

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13148/msi-z370-motherboards-now-support-intels-9th-gen-core-cpus

Vrika · December 2018

If you're going to spend that much on a video card, I'd suggest this one, $380 after rebate:
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137255&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

It's faster than GTX 1070, and according to the reviews it's fairly quiet
  https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1070-ti-titanium-8g-review,11.html

That I5 8600K doesn't seem to be worth its price. I'd go with Ryzen
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113496&Description=ryzen 5&cm_re=ryzen_5-_-19-113-496-_-Product

and a motherboard for it:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157842&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

The I5 would be maybe 20% faster
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-2600-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8600K/3955vs3941
but the CPU + mobo costs also costs 60% more than the ones I linked.

If you want to spend extra money for a bit quieter GPU, you should also spend extra money for a bit better CPU cooler than the stock cooler.

EDIT: Fixed link

vtravi · December 2018

Vrika said:

If you're going to spend that much on a video card, I'd suggest this one, $380 after rebate:
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137255&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

It's faster than GTX 1070, and according to the reviews it's fairly quiet
  https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1070-ti-titanium-8g-review,11.html

That I5 8600K doesn't seem to be worth its price. I'd go with Ryzen
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113496&Description=ryzen 5&cm_re=ryzen_5-_-19-113-496-_-Product

and a motherboard for it:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157842&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

The I5 would be maybe 20% faster
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-2600-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8600K/3955vs3941
but the CPU + mobo costs also costs 60% more than the ones I linked.

If you want to spend extra money for a bit quieter GPU, you should also spend extra money for a bit better CPU cooler than the stock cooler.

EDIT: Fixed link

Thx for info. Definately cheaper. I will continue to research. Gave me a lot to think about.

Any chance I would be better off with a Vega 56 GPU than a Nvidia 1070. I just worry that they seem louder and hotter than Nvidia.

Ridelynn · December 2018

Better off - hmm.... they are roughly the same performance. Seem to recall a 56 is slightly behind a 1070, but not by enough to matter too much.

True a Vega will use more power, but honestly I don’t think this is a large concern unless you are looking at some corner use cases (SFF, silent PC, etc). The noise and temperature are more related to the AIB design than any difference between nVidia and AMD.

Myself, I would go with AMD between the two given they are even remotely close in price, on good AIB cooler designs. I would not get a reference design of either card though.

One large argument in the favor of AMD is Freesync. Some people just really like nVidia though. I currently own an nVidia, just as a disclaimer.

asdfsdf34534 · December 2018

Vrika said:

Don't upgrade a 7 years old PC, buy a new one:

Your old RAM won't be compatible. You'll need to buy new one

You can keep using your old PSU if you insist, but you have to be prepared for two things:
1: If the old PSU breaks it can cause power spikes or such that also break other components
2: You might need to buy some adapters to connect new devices to very old PSU

You can keep using your old HDD (as long as it has SATA connection, a 7 years old HDD should already have) as long as you understand that hard disks don't last forever and using a hard disk beyond its intended life span means increased risk of losing all data on that hard disk.
Usually it's a good idea to use old hard disks as secondary drivers for more storage space, but buy a new hard disk as primary drive. Doing that means you could also get an SSD which is a lot faster.

Windows 7 and later are good for old computer, but for a new computer you should get Windows 10 because older operating systems don't fully support newest hardware. I don't know which OS you have.

You can safely and without problems use the case and any optical drivers from your old computer. Though with optical drivers check that they're using SATA connection (7 years should have that), and with case you should check that its PSU it placed on the bottom of the case (really old models had it at top of the case) and that it has plenty of room for your new GPU. If you've bought a good case 7 years ago it's still usable.

All in all there are so few parts in a 7 years old PC that you should keep using, that it's often better keep that 7 years old PC intact and buy a completely new PC instead.

Power Spikes? 20+ years working in a computer shop, never heard of a "power spike" damaging other components. Is this a Europe thing?

kjempff · December 2018

I didn't notice that was an external ssd, so yes def switch that to internal.
Power spike sound odd to me too, it is more that the fan bearings of a 7 year old power supply might be worn or some other component may be nearing death, so for the convenience of not having to deal with a possibly failing power supply soon.
And as other mentioned, if you can save something on a bit cheaper ram, that will likely have zero performance impact. And the mhz numbers on ram past a certain point (forgot which) have no performance gain for non oc tweaked systems.
A build a system for a friend this summer and there was a new coffee lake i5 8400 that performed as well (in games) as the more expensive i5 8700k.just because the 8400 was a coffee lake. An i7 is usually worth it too if you got the extra money. I am not sure if that hold up completely today, but well at some point you also have to take off the nerd hat and just buy something.

Cleffy · December 2018

Did I win?
HP EX920 M.2 512GB $89.99

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Noob upgrading my PC. Have a couple of questions

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