Someone please fill me in on where to find these sub numbers, since it seems like everyone has them or something. You can't even determine the game's population in game due to phase so the whole line about 'I always see people no matter where I go' is mute. Does it have more character than other games on the market today? Probably. Keep in mind too that a lot of these 'subs' are from token, so think about it this way, if the token wasn't released, how 'popular' would this game really be? I honestly haven't given Blizzard any of my money since they allowed you to convert tokens into blizzard balance and thanks to legion, those that played probably were in the same boat.
Now, how the game is doing financially is a whole different topic since you can look at how much money FFXIV pools in quarterly which is relative to wow's yet supposedly has less subscribers. Sub numbers never equals financial superiority. In fact and unfortunately, sub numbers are irrelevant since most of these companies care more about bringing in fresh faces than keeping their old ones. Why? People that's a whole new market for their cash shop, especially FFXIV which updates their cash shop monthly yet people get pissed at blizzard over 1 mount being added every 3 months or something (even though people are more upset about the timing of the mount releases vs the actual mounts going into the shop).
WoW is definitely in dire need of help... after all, it's just the most popular game of the day, the week, the month, 6 last months and the year... and this site is known for having quite a few anti-wow fanatics
Since 2004 I have been hearing WoW is dead/dying...it still hasn't. It might eventually, but I am not going to even try to make a prediction on when that will be.
They make money, they have players. What else?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Just a quick FYI for everyone here , there is a difference between a game being financially successful and a game being universally celebrated as a "success" or a enjoyable experience, I'm guessing OP is referring to the latter. EA's Madden makes money every year but ask any true fan of the series what they think of the game and they will tell you it is re hashed utter horse shit.
The Star Wars Disney movies are were making money but ask any REAL Star Wars fans what they thought of the movies and they will tell you they were dumpster fires.
We really don't know what Blizzard "expects " to make off wow in 2018/2019 so even though X amount of players are currently subbed in Blizzards eyes that could be a huge failure, we would never know.
The universal opinion is BFA is garbage, Unless you are a share holder and your only concern is the current value of the stock then Yes WOW could use some saving.
Context is everything
Those series have licenses though. If you want to play a football video game or watch starwar movies, that is your only choice.
Someone please fill me in on where to find these sub numbers, since it seems like everyone has them or something. You can't even determine the game's population in game due to phase so the whole line about 'I always see people no matter where I go' is mute. Does it have more character than other games on the market today? Probably. Keep in mind too that a lot of these 'subs' are from token, so think about it this way, if the token wasn't released, how 'popular' would this game really be? I honestly haven't given Blizzard any of my money since they allowed you to convert tokens into blizzard balance and thanks to legion, those that played probably were in the same boat.
Now, how the game is doing financially is a whole different topic since you can look at how much money FFXIV pools in quarterly which is relative to wow's yet supposedly has less subscribers. Sub numbers never equals financial superiority. In fact and unfortunately, sub numbers are irrelevant since most of these companies care more about bringing in fresh faces than keeping their old ones. Why? People that's a whole new market for their cash shop, especially FFXIV which updates their cash shop monthly yet people get pissed at blizzard over 1 mount being added every 3 months or something (even though people are more upset about the timing of the mount releases vs the actual mounts going into the shop).
WoW is definitely in dire need of help... after all, it's just the most popular game of the day, the week, the month, 6 last months and the year... and this site is known for having quite a few anti-wow fanatics
Since 2004 I have been hearing WoW is dead/dying...it still hasn't. It might eventually, but I am not going to even try to make a prediction on when that will be.
They make money, they have players. What else?
So because it makes a lot of money, it should be fine right? Fifa and Madden are EA's top money makers, so maybe they should just focus on how those games make money....oh wait they tried that....and look at the back lash. Money doesn't always translate into 'fine.' That's honestly the biggest problem with the market today. Every week, someone is announcing a battle royale game or mode. Why? Fornite. Money dictates everything, which is unfortunate. The people making these games aren't gamers, just people doing a job, which of course is fine, but it results in such a saturated market.
Just a quick FYI for everyone here , there is a difference between a game being financially successful and a game being universally celebrated as a "success" or a enjoyable experience, I'm guessing OP is referring to the latter. EA's Madden makes money every year but ask any true fan of the series what they think of the game and they will tell you it is re hashed utter horse shit.
The Star Wars Disney movies are were making money but ask any REAL Star Wars fans what they thought of the movies and they will tell you they were dumpster fires.
We really don't know what Blizzard "expects " to make off wow in 2018/2019 so even though X amount of players are currently subbed in Blizzards eyes that could be a huge failure, we would never know.
The universal opinion is BFA is garbage, Unless you are a share holder and your only concern is the current value of the stock then Yes WOW could use some saving.
Context is everything
Those series have licenses though. If you want to play a football video game or watch starwar movies, that is your only choice.
People are free to play other mmorpg.
EA caters to people who want to play games based on a particular non-gaming IP. I regard that as a totally different market from people who want to play games based on interesting game mechanics.
[...] EA's Madden makes money every year but ask any true fan [...]
The Star Wars Disney movies are were making money but ask any REAL Star Wars fans [...]
[...]
The universal opinion is BFA is garbage, Unless you are a share holder and your only concern is the current value of the stock then Yes WOW could use some saving.
If you disagree with me thats fine but i could link you dozens of youtube video's of both Madden & Star Wars Disney movies where the comments are filled with a overwhelming amount of negativity. I'm not sure if that would make my case stronger ? I'm guessing someone who quotes "No True Scotsman's fallacy" probably not lol.
Anyway Merry Christmas friend
I think YouTube comment sections are far more of a dumpster fire than any Star Wars film, Madden game, or WoW expansion. I could probably link dozens of videos of deaf people hearing their loved ones for the first time or soldiers surprising their kids for the holidays that have comments filled with an overwhelming amount of negativity.
I've loved WoW throughout the years and for various reasons and through various gameplay preferences.
But in my opinion at least, BFA was a very large letdown. Even for someone like me, that loved Draenor and Legion in their own ways, but also was around since the beginning, BFA was notably less impressive than previous offerings.
It felt like they decided to make the game more boring, actually on purpose. Class design, environment design, and systems design all seemed to be to be meant to chase a more basic version of WoW. The few new systems that they did implement felt shallow in comparison to previous offerings.
I haven't played 8.1. Always take my opinion with a grain of salt of course, but especially do that because I haven't played it in a few months. The point is, this was a watershed moment for me and I hope they commit more resources to it in order to make me happy with it again. WoW in it's best form is absolutely great.
WoW isn't going anywhere until a company in the US gets their shit together and develops a true MMORPG that Americans want to play. All the Asian MMORPGs just don't cut it because they are too grindy and remind us of kiddy porn anime crap.
Part of what has kept WoW popular for so long is that there really hasn't been any quality MMORPGs developed in the past 10+ years from the US. It's quite sad because the MMORPG space use to be very interesting with games coming out all the time.. now it's just sad sack of crap games that are designed to rip gamers off and take as much money as they can.
No matter what WOW does nothing will save it at this point Blizzard is on its way out and not soon enough as far as I am concerned, Activision has ruined a once great company but not anymore, basic 101 business knowledge piss 10 people off lose 100 turns to a 1000 you get it by now most of these people will never come back. If I had Blizzard stock I would get out now it will be junk soon.
Blizzards WoW, It appears to me World of Warcraft is finally going into decline.
I despise what every expansion did to the game but thats on me. Putting that aside I actually feel bad for the extremely lucrative company...... Not that our opinions count for anything, what would you do to save this game ?
My opinion: First, take a look at what happened. - Age, it's old - Expansions, however important to survival they will cause a perpetual spiral down hill in all cases. - Demographic changes from the original product. - Long term cater to end game players. You can't keep them forever.
Second, my solution. Take Vanilla, DON'T make an expansion, but add more levels, classes, more starting, mid level, and end game AT LEVEL 60. Keep the original difficulty and resell it as new.
Be a humanitarian company for awhile and give "extra" something back to the public against the nature of Big Business Practices. For survival long term this must happen. Later add expansions and start the process over again.
Working on both greed and offering a quality product together will cause greed to prevail eventually... Hence deterioration.
Your solutions for more level 60 endgame content only does the same thing the new expansions did . The answer to saving WoW is get rid of player levels all together and build a progression system around either gear alone or skin unlocking and skill like GW2 does.
Mainstream is EVERYTHING, more so than I realized. I knew it but the guy who used the Star Wars example really nailed it.
Star Wars Fans = Star Wars sucks, but supports everyone World of Warcraft fans = WoW sucks, but supports everyone
Mainstream is driving markets... People are sheep. I never realized how bad entertainment is sheep driven profitable !
You have a point here, original fans/players in all forms of entertainment only have power when they are the majority. Whether it is a game or a TV show the producers want the audience/player base to expand.
Very rarely if ever is the original design of the entertainment so popular that marketing sees no reason to change it to attract a wider audience. For MMORPG's be it easy mode, soloable to end game, "meaningful" content for players who only come online for 10 minutes a day; there are always more changes that can be made to attract that bigger audience or player base.
A question for you all, in games where you can but do not need to group, how much streaming is done as single player as opposed to a group of players? Today when I say changes are made to attract a wider audience I don't just mean TV shows.
But don't worry guys you and I are not sheep....Baaaa!
Mainstream is EVERYTHING, more so than I realized. I knew it but the guy who used the Star Wars example really nailed it.
Star Wars Fans = Star Wars sucks, but supports everyone World of Warcraft fans = WoW sucks, but supports everyone
Mainstream is driving markets... People are sheep. I never realized how bad entertainment is sheep driven profitable !
You have a point here, original fans/players in all forms of entertainment only have power when they are the majority. Whether it is a game or a TV show the producers want the audience/player base to expand.
Very rarely if ever is the original design of the entertainment so popular that marketing sees no reason to change it to attract a wider audience. For MMORPG's be it easy mode, soloable to end game, "meaningful" content for players who only come online for 10 minutes a day; there are always more changes that can be made to attract that bigger audience or player base.
A question for you all, in games where you can but do not need to group, how much streaming is done as single player as opposed to a group of players? Today when I say changes are made to attract a wider audience I don't just mean TV shows.
But don't worry guys you and I are not sheep....Baaaa!
I'm logging almost every day in "modern" WoW. I do dungeons, some raiding, world quests, and some PvP (war mode always on). And I'm having fun.
Am I a "sheep" for playing a game I'm genuinely enjoying?
I find that kind of assumptions insulting.
I think you were in WoW from the beginning? So you have seen the changes and still enjoy it, I was only there in the beginning. So I can't speak from experience of the game, other than noticing how laughable the story now is because it has become driven by expansions rather than lore?. But that does not mean the gameplay is bad, for example I am not entirely sure what warmode is.
The question we all have to ask ourselves and I am asking, not telling. Is have I come to enjoy this because it is all there is on offer, nostalgia and/or I still do this with friends? Or do I really enjoy the way the game now is? I can't answer that question for you, each of us has to work that out for themselves.
All I can say for myself is that I have found that the only thing that keeps me in a MMORPG these days is a guild. When I tried to play a MMO without one, thinking I would join a guild once I settled in I just ended up finding them boring and leaving. But MMO + guild still does it for me.
Also as I pointed out this is ubiquitous in entertainment, even with the thread title I think that's clear, this is not about one game.
Mainstream is EVERYTHING, more so than I realized. I knew it but the guy who used the Star Wars example really nailed it.
Star Wars Fans = Star Wars sucks, but supports everyone World of Warcraft fans = WoW sucks, but supports everyone
Mainstream is driving markets... People are sheep. I never realized how bad entertainment is sheep driven profitable !
You have a point here, original fans/players in all forms of entertainment only have power when they are the majority. Whether it is a game or a TV show the producers want the audience/player base to expand.
Very rarely if ever is the original design of the entertainment so popular that marketing sees no reason to change it to attract a wider audience. For MMORPG's be it easy mode, soloable to end game, "meaningful" content for players who only come online for 10 minutes a day; there are always more changes that can be made to attract that bigger audience or player base.
A question for you all, in games where you can but do not need to group, how much streaming is done as single player as opposed to a group of players? Today when I say changes are made to attract a wider audience I don't just mean TV shows.
But don't worry guys you and I are not sheep....Baaaa!
I'm logging almost every day in "modern" WoW. I do dungeons, some raiding, world quests, and some PvP (war mode always on). And I'm having fun.
Am I a "sheep" for playing a game I'm genuinely enjoying?
I find that kind of assumptions insulting.
I think you were in WoW from the beginning? So you have seen the changes and still enjoy it, I was only there in the beginning. So I can't speak from experience of the game, other than noticing how laughable the story now is because it has become driven by expansions rather than lore?. But that does not mean the gameplay is bad, for example I am not entirely sure what warmode is.
The question we all have to ask ourselves and I am asking, not telling. Is have I come to enjoy this because it is all there is on offer, nostalgia and/or I still do this with friends? Or do I really enjoy the way the game now is? I can't answer that question for you, each of us has to work that out for themselves.
All I can say for myself is that I have found that the only thing that keeps me in a MMORPG these days is a guild. When I tried to play a MMO without one, thinking I would join a guild once I settled in I just ended up finding them boring and leaving. But MMO + guild still does it for me.
Also as I pointed out this is ubiquitous in entertainment, even with the thread title I think that's clear, this is not about one game.
If the question is "do I like all changes", the answer is no. My favorite time in WoW was WotLK, and my favorite raid ever is still Ulduar.
But something doesn't always have to be the best to be good. Even today, WoW is still a AAA MMORPG with a very high production quality and excellent game mechanics. Its very reactive combat as yet to be matched by most similar games. And the writing for the stories and quests, along with the humor and pop culture references, are still priceless.
I disagree with the dumbing down of talent trees. I disagree with the linearization of the old world. But all the positives largely compensate for the negatives.
You know me since quite a long time: I wouldn't pay to play a game I do not genuinely enjoy.
It does seem to me you are enjoying yourself in spite of the changes, we have all been there. For me the idea that I would only enjoy an old MMO with such changes because I am with a guild does not bother me that much. We play knowing the gameplay is worse, but there have been good things added. We play knowing the cash shop is awful and try to use at as little as possible, but we still play. Our attitude it to hell with it, we will still be MMORPG gamers.
The other way of looking at it though is that we have followed the mainstream and been suckered into playing a game that is not built for us. I leave posters to decide which is the truth, I think there is quite a bit of both truths in the MMOs I play in fact.
Comments
They make money, they have players. What else?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
People are free to play other mmorpg.
But in my opinion at least, BFA was a very large letdown. Even for someone like me, that loved Draenor and Legion in their own ways, but also was around since the beginning, BFA was notably less impressive than previous offerings.
It felt like they decided to make the game more boring, actually on purpose. Class design, environment design, and systems design all seemed to be to be meant to chase a more basic version of WoW. The few new systems that they did implement felt shallow in comparison to previous offerings.
I haven't played 8.1. Always take my opinion with a grain of salt of course, but especially do that because I haven't played it in a few months. The point is, this was a watershed moment for me and I hope they commit more resources to it in order to make me happy with it again. WoW in it's best form is absolutely great.
Part of what has kept WoW popular for so long is that there really hasn't been any quality MMORPGs developed in the past 10+ years from the US. It's quite sad because the MMORPG space use to be very interesting with games coming out all the time.. now it's just sad sack of crap games that are designed to rip gamers off and take as much money as they can.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Very rarely if ever is the original design of the entertainment so popular that marketing sees no reason to change it to attract a wider audience. For MMORPG's be it easy mode, soloable to end game, "meaningful" content for players who only come online for 10 minutes a day; there are always more changes that can be made to attract that bigger audience or player base.
A question for you all, in games where you can but do not need to group, how much streaming is done as single player as opposed to a group of players? Today when I say changes are made to attract a wider audience I don't just mean TV shows.
But don't worry guys you and I are not sheep....Baaaa!
The question we all have to ask ourselves and I am asking, not telling. Is have I come to enjoy this because it is all there is on offer, nostalgia and/or I still do this with friends? Or do I really enjoy the way the game now is? I can't answer that question for you, each of us has to work that out for themselves.
All I can say for myself is that I have found that the only thing that keeps me in a MMORPG these days is a guild. When I tried to play a MMO without one, thinking I would join a guild once I settled in I just ended up finding them boring and leaving. But MMO + guild still does it for me.
Also as I pointed out this is ubiquitous in entertainment, even with the thread title I think that's clear, this is not about one game.
The other way of looking at it though is that we have followed the mainstream and been suckered into playing a game that is not built for us. I leave posters to decide which is the truth, I think there is quite a bit of both truths in the MMOs I play in fact.
If Blizzard wants to continue WoW they should make a WoW 2.