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Staff Changes & the Elimination of Key Esports Events Anchor Worrisome Heroes of the Storm Post - MM

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  • BobVaBobVa Member UncommonPosts: 82
    Stop calling them Blizzard. Blizzard died the day Mark Morhaime was forced to step down.

    This is very sad news for HoTs. Activision is taking full control now and as someone else said, this is just the .."soft" phase of what will come in the near future.

    Oh and, someone asked who came with the idea to make Diablo Immortal.

    Well , that will be the co-fonder which recently came back to Blizzard to ruin it. Because of Allen Adham ( which I don't like it at all ) , Blizzard has became the puppy of Activision.

    So .. all 'hail" to Allen.

    Also: The whole article written by Activi ..I mean J. Allen Brack and Ray Gresko , is one of the worst I saw in Blizzard history.
    SBFordRain_DeathravenThaharDragonJockey
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,064
    edited December 2018
    SBFord said:
    If HotS closes it will make me SO sad. It's truly the only MOBA I've ever played or liked in any way. Such a shame. I wonder what Brack's scissors will cut next?

    It's not making any money - it's no secret that HotS is the worst performing product in Blizzard's porfolio. They dumped a lot of money into it - especially in marketing efforts and it just never cought on due to LoL/Dota2 stranglehold on the entire MOBA playerbase.

    From a business perspective - you have to cut your losses and move on, yes it always sucks for the fans - but Blizzard must make decisions like this.

    As far as really good games closing down - happens all the time - having a good product that doesn't sell - yep, it sucks, but when it comes to online games where you have continuous expenses in paying devs/hosting/marketing - you have to step back and just cut your losses at some point. IMO Blizzard should have done this years ago with HotS.

    IMO opinion - it's been long overdue to let HotS go - from a pure business perspective, this is the right call.


    If Blizzard was doing great financially - this wouldn't be happening - the reality is - they've been seeing a steady decline in players over all of their products - so the money has been tighter at Blizzard now that it has been in previous years:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/11/18/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-activision-blizzards-3rd.aspx

    "What's most troubling is the decline in active users for the Blizzard segment (World of WarcraftOverwatchHearthstone, and other titles), in which MAUs have declined by 5 million year over year to 37 million at the end of the third quarter. The company highlighted Overwatch and Hearthstone as major culprits in year-over-year losses in active users. 

    Even though management noted that Overwatch's active users were stable over the sequential second quarter, the year-over-year loss in the franchise is disappointing and shows that not even the interest in Overwatch League has been able to prevent players from leaving the game compared to the comparable quarter."



    This is what companies do when money starts to be tight - have to trim the fat, stop investing into failing products

    Trolldefender99
  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 32,191
    Of course, @DMKano and as an investor, I approve. As a player, I'm saddened as it's one of my favorite games. But it is what it is.

    This is a great video and mirrors how I feel as a player.

    SedrynTyrosPhry

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 3,809
    I'm sure the business model is a part of it. 

    IMO, heroes are never worth buying in MOBA games (unless they offer generous all-unlock packs like in Smite), as unlocking them is your main progression and incentive to keep playing. Though in HotS, they take far too long to unlock and the dailies in HotS are more chore-like and restrictive than those in other mobas, killing that long term incentive for me.

    This leaves cosmetics, and Heroes of the Storm has, without a doubt, the lowest quality skins I have ever seen in a MOBA. They are grossly overpriced, don't compare to League of Legends skins from 2-3 years ago, let alone today, and they can be obtained for free from lootboxes. It's why I've never spent so much as a penny on this game.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    edited December 2018
    jj7009 said:

    gervaise1 said:

    Certainly raises questions about "e-sports". Certainly suggests that its not enough to simply suggest that "game X" has an e-sport option (and so will make lots of money).



    Nosgoth was already a prime example of that (and another game i loved dearly)
    Nosgoth was really fun.  The Vampires all played very differently, as did the Hunter's.  I do miss that game.

    3rd person over the shoulder is incredibly underrated in the MOBA space imo.
    jj7009

    image
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 446
    It's not the last bit of news from Blizzard.  This will be the year of layoffs.
    SBFordTorvalXarko
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 3,809
    jj7009 said:

    gervaise1 said:

    Certainly raises questions about "e-sports". Certainly suggests that its not enough to simply suggest that "game X" has an e-sport option (and so will make lots of money).



    Nosgoth was already a prime example of that (and another game i loved dearly)
    Nosgoth was really fun.  The Vampires all played very differently, as did the Hunter's.  I do miss that game.

    3rd person over the shoulder is incredibly underrated in the MOBA space imo.
    There isn't much frame of reference for 3rd person. Smite is the only real example, as Super Monday Night Combat died on arrival and Paragon spent 2 years floundering as a terrible game with no identity.
    MadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    Aeander said:
    jj7009 said:

    gervaise1 said:

    Certainly raises questions about "e-sports". Certainly suggests that its not enough to simply suggest that "game X" has an e-sport option (and so will make lots of money).



    Nosgoth was already a prime example of that (and another game i loved dearly)
    Nosgoth was really fun.  The Vampires all played very differently, as did the Hunter's.  I do miss that game.

    3rd person over the shoulder is incredibly underrated in the MOBA space imo.
    There isn't much frame of reference for 3rd person. Smite is the only real example, as Super Monday Night Combat died on arrival and Paragon spent 2 years floundering as a terrible game with no identity.
    And it seems strange to me, for a twitch based competitive genre.

    Smite objectively takes more skill, generally, then the majority of MOBAs as, unlike the vast majority of MOBAs, auto-attacking requires the same kind of aim as abilities.

    Auto attacks are essentially a small area cleave (melee) or a line skill shot (ranged).  There's no "click and automatically do damage."

    image
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 3,308
    DMKano said:
    SBFord said:
    If HotS closes it will make me SO sad. It's truly the only MOBA I've ever played or liked in any way. Such a shame. I wonder what Brack's scissors will cut next?

    It's not making any money - it's no secret that HotS is the worst performing product in Blizzard's porfolio. They dumped a lot of money into it - especially in marketing efforts and it just never cought on due to LoL/Dota2 stranglehold on the entire MOBA playerbase.

    From a business perspective - you have to cut your losses and move on, yes it always sucks for the fans - but Blizzard must make decisions like this.

    As far as really good games closing down - happens all the time - having a good product that doesn't sell - yep, it sucks, but when it comes to online games where you have continuous expenses in paying devs/hosting/marketing - you have to step back and just cut your losses at some point. IMO Blizzard should have done this years ago with HotS.

    IMO opinion - it's been long overdue to let HotS go - from a pure business perspective, this is the right call.


    If Blizzard was doing great financially - this wouldn't be happening - the reality is - they've been seeing a steady decline in players over all of their products - so the money has been tighter at Blizzard now that it has been in previous years:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/11/18/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-activision-blizzards-3rd.aspx

    "What's most troubling is the decline in active users for the Blizzard segment (World of WarcraftOverwatchHearthstone, and other titles), in which MAUs have declined by 5 million year over year to 37 million at the end of the third quarter. The company highlighted Overwatch and Hearthstone as major culprits in year-over-year losses in active users. 

    Even though management noted that Overwatch's active users were stable over the sequential second quarter, the year-over-year loss in the franchise is disappointing and shows that not even the interest in Overwatch League has been able to prevent players from leaving the game compared to the comparable quarter."



    This is what companies do when money starts to be tight - have to trim the fat, stop investing into failing products

    This is what happens when a company chases trends rather than setting them.
    MadFrenchie


    “I was, in days gone by, a believer. But, alas, I came to this beleaguered land and the God in me just … evaporated. Let us change our toast, then, to the God that has forgotten us.”

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    edited December 2018
    I'm wondering when pubs will learn jumping on the bandwagon is just as risky as investing in new ideas.
    SBFord

    image
  • PrimoSEPrimoSE Member CommonPosts: 1
    since the changes to Quick Match and the insane queue/waiting times (normally 10-20 mins if you play assassin), most people i played with online have now left and gone elsewhere.. with this news i think i will now be doing the same... RIP heroes.... i will miss you old friend..
    SBFord
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,456
    I absolutely loathe MOBAs in general but I did try HotS and it was more tolerable than most.  They jumped on the train a bit late though and I think they thought just because people played the other games they would hop into this.

    This though goes to show there is something underlying going on inside of Blizzard currently though.  I pretty much ignore posts from former employees as they can be just bitter but fact is that millions have quit playing Blizzard games in the last year or so.  The bleeding should be sending a signal to Blizz they are going in the wrong direction and the ship needs to have a new course set.  Unfortunately companies like EA and Activision give two shits about us and it is showing more and more.
    SBFord
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 3,809
    DMKano said:
    SBFord said:
    If HotS closes it will make me SO sad. It's truly the only MOBA I've ever played or liked in any way. Such a shame. I wonder what Brack's scissors will cut next?

    It's not making any money - it's no secret that HotS is the worst performing product in Blizzard's porfolio. They dumped a lot of money into it - especially in marketing efforts and it just never cought on due to LoL/Dota2 stranglehold on the entire MOBA playerbase.

    From a business perspective - you have to cut your losses and move on, yes it always sucks for the fans - but Blizzard must make decisions like this.

    As far as really good games closing down - happens all the time - having a good product that doesn't sell - yep, it sucks, but when it comes to online games where you have continuous expenses in paying devs/hosting/marketing - you have to step back and just cut your losses at some point. IMO Blizzard should have done this years ago with HotS.

    IMO opinion - it's been long overdue to let HotS go - from a pure business perspective, this is the right call.


    If Blizzard was doing great financially - this wouldn't be happening - the reality is - they've been seeing a steady decline in players over all of their products - so the money has been tighter at Blizzard now that it has been in previous years:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/11/18/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-activision-blizzards-3rd.aspx

    "What's most troubling is the decline in active users for the Blizzard segment (World of WarcraftOverwatchHearthstone, and other titles), in which MAUs have declined by 5 million year over year to 37 million at the end of the third quarter. The company highlighted Overwatch and Hearthstone as major culprits in year-over-year losses in active users. 

    Even though management noted that Overwatch's active users were stable over the sequential second quarter, the year-over-year loss in the franchise is disappointing and shows that not even the interest in Overwatch League has been able to prevent players from leaving the game compared to the comparable quarter."



    This is what companies do when money starts to be tight - have to trim the fat, stop investing into failing products

    This is what happens when a company chases trends rather than setting them.
    Heroes of the Storm is an innovative title though. Its questing/boss pushing mechanics have only been seen in 3 other mobas (Reapm of the Titans, Sins of a Dark Age, and Master x Master). None of these were successful in the west and the last came out after Heroes of the Storm. 

    I would call Heroes of the Storm a more casual, refined, polished Realm of the Titans on paper, and when it comes to map design, Heroes of the Storm is completely unique. 

    It certainly doesn't deserve to be lumped in with actual shameless trend chasers like Paragon, Infinite Crisis, Heroes of Newerth, and Strife.
    SBFordLiljna
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 10,675
    PrimoSE said:
    since the changes to Quick Match and the insane queue/waiting times (normally 10-20 mins if you play assassin), most people i played with online have now left and gone elsewhere.. with this news i think i will now be doing the same... RIP heroes.... i will miss you old friend..
    Not the best of news to welcome you to the boards, but all the same welcome!

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 851
    A lot of people are comparing HotS and LoL, but they are vastly different. It's stupid to compare. Also
    as an eSport it was doing just fine. The problem is that in all these years they never fixed their MM system. It's stupid to place GM/Masters/Diamond players with Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat players. Their understanding of the game is just too different and with no possibility to make a comeback late game it just literally forces new players away.
    That was the whole issue. No new players stayed around because the MM ruined their early in-game experience. They never had the chance to see what it feels like to be in games with both teams being equally matched.

    Pros:
    Creatively, HotS have a lot more you can "do" with your heroes than you do with other games like DOTA and LoL.
    Games were shorter which 1. means you get faster to the fun part of the game(aka not level 1 fights) 2. you could play more games.
    You can get skins for free a lot faster than other games.
    Community is at least 1000% better than other MOBAs... Recently I started playing LoL and literally in my first game there were trolls that told people to kill themselves, they kept feeding on purpose and we still won... No idea why someone would go mental when they are winning, but LoL for example is filled with such people, but then again he went mental while champs were being selected... There were death threats literally before the game even started... Truly a wonderful community. About 3 out of 5 games are like that pretty much.

    Cons:
    Sadly probably 90%-95% of the games aren't equally matched because there is no actual MM system. It just places whoever is queued against each other. The reason for that is probably the lower playerbase, but that's also the reason for the lower playerbase..
    Ranks were irrelevant. There were people who have played 10 heroes and don't even know the spells of the rest of the heroes, but are somehow in Diamond/early Master...
    Blizzard never really cared for the game.

    I haven't played HotS since Blizzcon. When I saw that MM being fixed wasn't even important to them I just lost all hope. I prefer to play HotS over LoL, but sadly games are not only really bad, but in the past 2-3 months have been getting worse and worse...
    I was really hoping that they will fix it, but it seems like we are about to witness history as Blizzard is about to shutdown their first game ever... If that doesn't show how bad and out of touch with their players Blizzard is then I don't know what does.
    From literally one of the best if not the best game developing companies, Blizzard is taking a dive with it's might to try and get on Daybreak Games level... and from what I'm seeing recently they just might do it.
    SBFord
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 3,809
    mcrippins said:

    Aeander said:


    SBFord said:

    If HotS closes it will make me SO sad. It's truly the only MOBA I've ever played or liked in any way. Such a shame. I wonder what Brack's scissors will cut next?


    I personally think that Dawngate was the best MOBA ever made, but Heroes of the Storm is my second favorite and one that I have played plenty of.



    I wish more people knew about Dawngate before it closed down. It was so fun compared to other MOBAs.
    It did almost everything right (except for picking its publisher), and if it had only managed to come out before League exploded in popularity, it would be the gold standard for the genre.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,707
    Until the individual sport in an eSport grows bigger than the company that owns it then they'll always be relegated to a company based hobby. This is the real dividing line between eSports and real sports. eSports are like intramural sports and when the school or organization that runs them stops, so does the sport.

    When a single company can kill the "sport", then it's not really a sport, it's just a piece of software with an event tacked on.
    SBFordgervaise1mklinicTacticalZombeh
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member UncommonPosts: 163

    SBFord said:



    An anonymous insider at Blizzard told me the company is changing its name to Brack Catching Flack.


    Funny as it is, in that Kotaku report about the Diablo Immortal kerfuffle, sources told them that cost cutting measures were being implemented...maybe this is one of the first. I mean, they'll save hundreds of thousands on those two tournaments alone, let alone by shifting resources to other teams meaning they don't have to hire new employees. 

    I wonder if Morhaime's sudden retirement was balking at doing such things under pressure from investors and / or Activision?



    I should try

    Cracking jokes at Blizzard's expense is one thing, but I still feel really bad for Wyatt Cheng. He received absolute silence on a game he was told to hype up as part of his job to a live crowd of thousands, became a meme, received death threats, racist remarks, and a lot of petitions for his firing. Immortal's announcement disappointed me, but Activision also gave me Destiny 2 free of charge the same week.
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,456

    SBFord said:



    An anonymous insider at Blizzard told me the company is changing its name to Brack Catching Flack.


    Funny as it is, in that Kotaku report about the Diablo Immortal kerfuffle, sources told them that cost cutting measures were being implemented...maybe this is one of the first. I mean, they'll save hundreds of thousands on those two tournaments alone, let alone by shifting resources to other teams meaning they don't have to hire new employees. 

    I wonder if Morhaime's sudden retirement was balking at doing such things under pressure from investors and / or Activision?



    I should try

    Cracking jokes at Blizzard's expense is one thing, but I still feel really bad for Wyatt Cheng. He received absolute silence on a game he was told to hype up as part of his job to a live crowd of thousands, became a meme, received death threats, racist remarks, and a lot of petitions for his firing. Immortal's announcement disappointed me, but Activision also gave me Destiny 2 free of charge the same week.
    The hate directed at Wyatt was beyond uncalled for.  I think the silence of the crowd was chilling enough to a guy in his spot.  If they announced that at a general gaming con then the response would have potentially been very different.  Blizzard should have known better as their fans are rabid but not stupid.  

    It has been said multiple times but let me parrot it again...the Blizzard of the 90s and early 2000s is dead.  Long live the dictator Activision.
    Torval
  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,228
    inc more mobile games from activision blizzard. next year gonna be awesome for indie games.
  • Warhawke80Warhawke80 Member UncommonPosts: 149
    I sorta said this is going to be the end result of Blizzard pushing so hard for E-sports.

    But whatever.... the company folded in my book when Rob Pardo and Chris Metzen left, I have been selling off my Blizzard collectible stuff as fast as I can because the market is dying..what use to have almost a monthly value increase is now being offloaded for pennies on the dollar.

    They had a good run, no king rules forever.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,514
    There are certain things this game offers that other MOBA don't but judging by the way they have progressed in their development I doubt they see those things. If it gets close to the end they should try changing the view of the game to 3rd person from what it is currently to see how it works if it gets to the point where they have nothing left to lose. Eldevin did it with a very small studio so for a company like Blizzard with all their resources should be ez pz.
    Torval
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,707
    BruceYee said:
    There are certain things this game offers that other MOBA don't but judging by the way they have progressed in their development I doubt they see those things. If it gets close to the end they should try changing the view of the game to 3rd person from what it is currently to see how it works if it gets to the point where they have nothing left to lose. Eldevin did it with a very small studio so for a company like Blizzard with all their resources should be ez pz.
    I should check out Eldevin again. Thanks for the reminder.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    J. Allen Brack a complete cunt - confirmed.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    edited December 2018


    EDIT: Didn't see that Suzie had already posted it.
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