Population Zero Devs Aim to Reimagine What a Survival MMO Truly Is

SBFord · December 2018

Population Zero Devs Aim to Reimagine What a Survival MMO Truly Is

Today is a big day for Russian developer Enplex Games with its announcement of Population Zero. The goal for devs is to completely reimagine what a survival MMO truly is by creating a single server for all players that includes "a rich, vibrant, and changing world driven by player actions". The game wants to "raise the bar for what it means to be a multiplayer survival experience". With devs hailing from Disney, Nival, Wargaming & Mail.ru, they seem to be on the right track.

SBFord · December 2018

They don't mention it as an influence, but I sure get a Mass Effect vibe from the video and screens.

Viper482 · December 2018

Ugh...more survival crap.

achesoma · December 2018

Be nice if there was more info than just a bunch of buzz words and catchphrases.

asdfsdf34534 · December 2018

Russian game devs, ya right. no thanks

Albatroes · December 2018

nickiamx said:

Russian game devs, ya right. no thanks

now that you mention it, it sounds like another pet project of that one guy who was involved in Wild West Online. Forgot his name, but uses a lot of dummy corporations to scam money.

rodarin · December 2018

Since there has never been a 'successful' survival MMO what exactly are they trying to 'REimagine'? There has really only been one that I know of.

The only 'true' survival MMO was released about 6 months ago with Life is Feudal, and it was an epic failure. The next one will be the second and it just got delayed a week. That will be Atlas.

While there are plenty of 'survival' games out there none of them are MMO, most are at best 150-250 players to a (modded) server. But with the state of the actual MMO genre that might actually qualify as one of the Ms of MMO...

Meh just read some of the Q&A and its going to be full loot. So so much for being 'reimagined' Looks like another Russian failure (along with the aforementioned Life is Feudal) in the world of survival MMOs.

They probably should have learned by now no one wants full looting.

asdfsdf34534 · December 2018

Russian Games? lol Population Zero is Right!

ConstantineMerus · December 2018

nickiamx said:

Russian Games? lol Population Zero is Right!

So now you are @Torval. But let's see who you really are. Hmmm. I spy, with my little eye, someone who lives under a bridge.

MaximusNova · December 2018

Thanks but no thanks.

MaximusNova · December 2018

Remember Project Genome from another Russian team it failed hard this will be the same thing.

Zfrenzy · December 2018

I don't know where you get that it's a single server when they haven't said anything about it. Here (https://goo.gl/dfkjQr) is much more information but in Spanish. In fact, in your own interview they say: Enplex Games: "The goal is to have at least a few hundred players per server and we are working very hard to squeeze every last drop of technology available to us, to be able to get as many people together as possible. One thing we don’t enjoy is 20/40 player servers. That’s for sure". Therefore it is obvious to think that they will be several servers and not a single server

Scot · December 2018

Zfrenzy said:

I don't know where you get that it's a single server when they haven't said anything about it. Here (https://goo.gl/dfkjQr) is much more information but in Spanish.

In fact, in your own interview they say:

Enplex Games: "The goal is to have at least a few hundred players per server and we are working very hard to squeeze every last drop of technology available to us, to be able to get as many people together as possible. One thing we don’t enjoy is 20/40 player servers. That’s for sure".

Therefore it is obvious to think that they will be several servers and not a single server

Welcome to the boards!

Kyleran · December 2018

Facinating that technology available since the 90s (large scale multiplayer servers / worlds) seems to be impossible for so many devs today to accomplish.

Oh well, some feel if we had to land men on the moon again we couldn't do it anymore.

rodarin · December 2018

Kyleran said:

Facinating that technology available since the 90s (large scale multiplayer servers / worlds) seems to be impossible for so many devs today to accomplish.

Oh well, some feel if we had to land men on the moon again we couldn't do it anymore.

we didnt land on the moon...

MaxBacon · December 2018

Kyleran said:
Oh well, some feel if we had to land men on the moon again we couldn't do it anymore.

LMAO now you've done it! :P

Kyleran said:

Facinating that technology available since the 90s (large scale multiplayer servers / worlds) seems to be impossible for so many devs today to accomplish.

It's rather simple for who understands the technical side of things. Games of today are far more complex, more simulation, more physics, higher visual quality, etc... While technology had boosted up a lot on some areas, in terms of massive multiplayer technology it still is a core bottleneck.

And even when the multiplayer technology is not the problem, the player render is, with higher visual quality and simulation and all it easily becomes too expensive on the render budget without aggressive optimization (check the lag festivals when too many players are on the same place on MMO's like BDO).

So sadly yes, to achieve more complex games presently the multiplayer aspect gets cut down, or the opposite like say Camelot Unchained where you notice the game visuals and such being toned down to achieve MP scale.

Kyleran · December 2018

MaxBacon said:

Kyleran said:
Oh well, some feel if we had to land men on the moon again we couldn't do it anymore.

LMAO now you've done it! :P

Kyleran said:

Facinating that technology available since the 90s (large scale multiplayer servers / worlds) seems to be impossible for so many devs today to accomplish.

It's rather simple for who understands the technical side of things. Games of today are far more complex, more simulation, more physics, higher visual quality, etc... While technology had boosted up a lot on some areas, in terms of massive multiplayer technology it still is a core bottleneck.

And even when the multiplayer technology is not the problem, the player render is, with higher visual quality and simulation and all it easily becomes too expensive on the render budget without aggressive optimization (check the lag festivals when too many players are on the same place on MMO's like BDO).

So sadly yes, to achieve more complex games presently the multiplayer aspect gets cut down, or the opposite like say Camelot Unchained where you notice the game visuals and such being toned down to achieve MP scale.

Perhaps if MMOs weren't coded down to run toasters and consoles there would be less issue with performance?

MaxBacon · December 2018

Kyleran said:
Perhaps if MMOs weren't coded down to run toasters and consoles there would be less issue with performance?

There's reasons why MMO's are known more expensive and taking longer to make, that open persistent MP aspect on large-scale is always forcing cuts, and is why we see such weak physics and simulation and more scripted "make-believe" mechanics to ease up on server resources. There are many tricks to cut down, on BDO for example very noticeable one is the AI it only simulates so much and once farming you notice groups don't move until you've killed enough active AI, it's many things like that MMO's have to use to cope with costs of their world and MP scale.

Their performance is really, the more graphically detailed one MMO is, such as BDO, the more performance will take a hit, this is where normal MP and SP games don't have about it because you won't get to one place where hundreds will be, there's no magical way to optimize that without having it clearly look and feel subpar (such as the MMO's where player character models are invisible to not overwhelm your client).

The other bit is traffic, see if too many concurrently end up on the same area, you not only have the render part of all that goes on the screen, but you also are getting networked updates on all of those players entities and their actions, literally overwhelming your client that way too.

It's just messy, see on a game like Planetside 2, the optimization they did is for a linear and localized mass MP experience, there is not a ton of variables to consider (like on an MMO on a city with many players there's from AI going on, NPCs, usually highly detailed locations by nature, so too many players added to that just will go mess it up.

It's really what it is, more complex MMOs with more simulation and more detail will forcefully need a contained MP scale when it comes to that localized concurrency. This is what is happening right now with cloud setups having many servers handling a game-world.

Scot · December 2018

Kyleran said:

Facinating that technology available since the 90s (large scale multiplayer servers / worlds) seems to be impossible for so many devs today to accomplish.

Oh well, some feel if we had to land men on the moon again we couldn't do it anymore.

Don't worry in 50 years we will have a growing population of robot probes on most of the solar systems planets, while we stay here still wondering if its safe to go back out there.

WargfootYV · December 2018

Serious Question: Is there an open world PvP/Full Loot game anywhere that is currently successful?

Why do developers keep making this stuff?

Sovrath · December 2018

WargfootYV said:

Serious Question: Is there an open world PvP/Full Loot game anywhere that is currently successful?

Why do developers keep making this stuff?

Because they are making the game they want to play?

Developers just can't win. If they make a game that is aimed at the widest possible audience then they are sellouts and in the words of some, aren't sticking to their vision.

If they make the game they want to play, after seeing so many games they don't want to play then people ask why are they making stuff that only a few are interested in playing.

I say good for them. If it succeeds then all the better. If it fails? Well, at least they tried.

Kyleran · December 2018

MaxBacon said:

Kyleran said:
Perhaps if MMOs weren't coded down to run toasters and consoles there would be less issue with performance?

There's reasons why MMO's are known more expensive and taking longer to make, that open persistent MP aspect on large-scale is always forcing cuts, and is why we see such weak physics and simulation and more scripted "make-believe" mechanics to ease up on server resources. There are many tricks to cut down, on BDO for example very noticeable one is the AI it only simulates so much and once farming you notice groups don't move until you've killed enough active AI, it's many things like that MMO's have to use to cope with costs of their world and MP scale.

Their performance is really, the more graphically detailed one MMO is, such as BDO, the more performance will take a hit, this is where normal MP and SP games don't have about it because you won't get to one place where hundreds will be, there's no magical way to optimize that without having it clearly look and feel subpar (such as the MMO's where player character models are invisible to not overwhelm your client).

The other bit is traffic, see if too many concurrently end up on the same area, you not only have the render part of all that goes on the screen, but you also are getting networked updates on all of those players entities and their actions, literally overwhelming your client that way too.

It's just messy, see on a game like Planetside 2, the optimization they did is for a linear and localized mass MP experience, there is not a ton of variables to consider (like on an MMO on a city with many players there's from AI going on, NPCs, usually highly detailed locations by nature, so too many players added to that just will go mess it up.

It's really what it is, more complex MMOs with more simulation and more detail will forcefully need a contained MP scale when it comes to that localized concurrency. This is what is happening right now with cloud setups having many servers handling a game-world.

All comes down to choices I guess. Not being a graphics whore I prefer CUs approach to keeping the graphics toned down some in favor of performance in large scale multiplayer situations, but realise other choices are often made.

MaxBacon · December 2018

Kyleran said:
All comes down to choices I guess. Not being a graphics whore I prefer CUs approach to keeping the graphics toned down some in favor of performance in large scale multiplayer situations, but realise other choices are often made.

I prefer the opposite where the game can do more physics, better graphics and so limiting the MP aspect on the micro-scale (aka how many will be on the same place at the same time) investing on the macro-scale of it (having all areas populated with the localized server setups).

Because otherwise MMOs will keep looking and felling dated just so many people can be at the same place at the same time, while in the vast majority of them that possibility does not co-exist with any proper gameplay loop.

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Population Zero Devs Aim to Reimagine What a Survival MMO Truly Is

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Population Zero Devs Aim to Reimagine What a Survival MMO Truly Is

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV