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NDA Violation During Anthem Alpha Nets One Player an Empty Origin Game Library - MMORPG.com

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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Also (separate response needed), this is why game developers are classifying themselves as SaaS (software as a service) so they have more legal leverage and control on the ownership. There's nothing wrong with that, but they ARE double dipping.

    If you're a software as a service the whole "retail box price" thing comes into question. SaaS should be a subscription or F2P (with however they choose to monetize). A setup fee equal to a one month payment makes sense, but that retail $59.99 - $69.99 needs to be pushed back on. What are we as consumers paying for? There's no box and even if there is, we don't own what's in it and can be arbitrarily locked out of what was paid for.

    It's something for all gamers to ponder about because the "as a service" shift is a upon us.
    MadFrenchieMrMelGibsonGobstopper3D
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 755
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Octagon7711
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,939
    edited December 2018
    Vynt said:
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.

    Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder.  They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.

    It's coming...

    rodarin

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    mmrv said:
    Ungood said:
    mmrv said:

    Popple said:


    Ungood said:







    exile01 said:


    I dont think this is news-worthy...


    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?









    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.




    Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!



    Wouldnt matter the analogy is incorrect. anthem is the product the lease would be with not the other titles in the library. A more accurate comparison would be you lease 2 cars from ford break the lease with car A and they then break the contract and lease and repossess car B as well. That is against the law.

    Just to clear things up. A lease is provided though a Bank, or loan provider.

    If you have the lease for both cars though the same provider, and you break contract, the provider can opt, at their discretion depending on the severity of the situation, to cancel any and all other accounts you have with them, like checking accounts, credit cards, and also including the lease on the other car, and reposes both cars.

    Also keep in mind that the NDA was signed with EA & Bioware, as a company, as a whole, not just with Anthem. It was regarding Anthem, but signed with EA & Bioware, this it can affect any and all other dealings you have with, this included any other services they may provide you.

    Just saying.. 
    I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars  on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. 
    Oh No No No.. Make no mistake..  YES they can.

    Depending on the severity of the breech on conduct, a private institution can flat out terminate any and ALL dealings they have with you, and refuse to engage in any future dealings with you.

    If you think they can't protect themselves in this manner, you are flat out wrong.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    Vynt said:
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.

    Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder.  They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.

    It's coming...

    If it makes you feel any better, some states do in fact tax you for millage on your car..  is your life complete now?
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • TalaharTalahar Member UncommonPosts: 18
    edited December 2018
    I call BS on this. They would just suspend the account, which meant you couldn't even log into origin.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695
    edited December 2018
    Okay I just noticed this - they haven't suspended his account but removed his games? lol? I guess someone's trying to ride on the hating EA to fame. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: Blackfield by Blackfield from Blackfield (2005)
    • Currently Playing: Devil May Cry 1
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    Ungood said:
    Vynt said:
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.

    Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder.  They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.

    It's coming...

    If it makes you feel any better, some states do in fact tax you for millage on your car..  is your life complete now?
    There are a few articles around about people who got speeding tickets mailed to them for speeding in rental vehicles, based on GPS data.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    Okay I just noticed this - they haven't suspended his account but removed his games? lol? I guess someone's trying to ride on the hating EA to fame. 
    Maybe they value his business and went him to continue to purchase games in the future. :smiley:
    newbismxMrMelGibson

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Dr_BinksDr_Binks Member UncommonPosts: 258
    Man I can believe what I see here. More of you are pissed at EA for shutting him down then pissed about him braking the NDA. He agreed to the terms of use and he violated them he should be glad thats all they did!

    It's like buying a music CD, Yes you paid for it and you own it but that does not mean you own the right to make copies to give to you buddies. If you do and you get caught you will broke and may even be in the big house.

    People have to learn that you just can't do what ever you want to do. There are rules in life and if you are stupid enough to brake them you'll just may have to pay!!
    Ungood
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695
    Okay I just noticed this - they haven't suspended his account but removed his games? lol? I guess someone's trying to ride on the hating EA to fame. 
    Maybe they value his business and went him to continue to purchase games in the future. :smiley:
    Maybe they are a satanic cult and they see him as the best male candidate to father the Antichrist? I guess anything's possible! :grimace:
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: Blackfield by Blackfield from Blackfield (2005)
    • Currently Playing: Devil May Cry 1
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
    • Gaming Timeline: Arcade, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, SEGA, IBM, PS, PC, PS2, More PCs, PS3, Giant PC, PS4, No More PCs, PS4 Pro.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,810
    Serves him right for being so greedy for views.
    Ungood

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 241
    mmrv said:
    I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars  on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. Each contract is a separate business agreement.
    Ok.

    If you really believe that, try this:

    Go to a bank, any bank, and open a bank account.
    Then with the same bank, open a bank account for a child.

    Put money in your bank account, and put money in the child's bank account.

    Mess about with your bank account, go overdrawn, owe the bank money, refuse to pay it.

    Watch as the bank take the money from the child's account, and any other account that is with that bank and in credit that has your name attached to it in any way.

    Then try and tell them they cannot do what they did as they are separate contracts for different products, see how far that gets you.

    Go one step further and claim they can not legally do it, see how that goes.

    Let us know here how you get on ;P
    UngoodTheScavenger
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,062
    If I lost my Steam Library, I'd be shattered. It's the most valuable possession I managed to secure in life.
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 455

    Utinni said:




    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?





    If you read the EULA of almost any game these days you don't technically own the game. 

    I'd say violating an NDA with a major company like that and all you lost was an origin account is pretty good. Yea it's "just a game" but its their product and a very expensive one at that.



    Yeah, you own the right to use the software under the terms you agree to when you open it.

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,286
    Ungood said:
    mmrv said:
    Ungood said:
    mmrv said:

    Popple said:


    Ungood said:







    exile01 said:


    I dont think this is news-worthy...


    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?









    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.




    Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!



    Wouldnt matter the analogy is incorrect. anthem is the product the lease would be with not the other titles in the library. A more accurate comparison would be you lease 2 cars from ford break the lease with car A and they then break the contract and lease and repossess car B as well. That is against the law.

    Just to clear things up. A lease is provided though a Bank, or loan provider.

    If you have the lease for both cars though the same provider, and you break contract, the provider can opt, at their discretion depending on the severity of the situation, to cancel any and all other accounts you have with them, like checking accounts, credit cards, and also including the lease on the other car, and reposes both cars.

    Also keep in mind that the NDA was signed with EA & Bioware, as a company, as a whole, not just with Anthem. It was regarding Anthem, but signed with EA & Bioware, this it can affect any and all other dealings you have with, this included any other services they may provide you.

    Just saying.. 
    I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars  on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. 
    Oh No No No.. Make no mistake..  YES they can.

    Depending on the severity of the breech on conduct, a private institution can flat out terminate any and ALL dealings they have with you, and refuse to engage in any future dealings with you.

    If you think they can't protect themselves in this manner, you are flat out wrong.
    they can freeze your account, based for lack of payment, so they can then enter in a process to use the account funds to pay for the money you are owned, but they can't cancel it
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    If I don't feel that my purchases in your platform are safe, I will stop using said platform.

    Legal talk becomes irrelevant if you start losing customers because of lack of trust.
    Gorwe
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,270
    edited December 2018
    Ungood said:
    Vynt said:
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.

    Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder.  They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.

    It's coming...

    If it makes you feel any better, some states do in fact tax you for millage on your car..  is your life complete now?
    There are a few articles around about people who got speeding tickets mailed to them for speeding in rental vehicles, based on GPS data.
    I don't believe that ratting out your clients would be good for business.

    Red light camera's and/or photo radar.

    If you receive one of these while renting a car the ticket will end up on your lap. In Europe some countries have those systems that measure your progress from point to point and calculate whether you were speeding or not.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,537
    edited December 2018
    Vynt said:
    The car analogy had me thinking.

    Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.

    Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.

    Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!


    Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.

    Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder.  They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.

    It's coming...

    California ran something last Nov (2017) where they had digital readers in cars who tracked the mileage. And were pretty much convinced that they were going to implement a mileage tax. The irony is sweet to be sure. But I really thought it would have been implemented by now. Guess they waited until they let the numbnuts out their vote themselves a (illegal) gas tax into law Brown passed in the middle of the night. SO now the state has free reign to do what they want to people I guess when it comes to motor vehicles.

    I expect some sort of chip in the registration stickers or in the plates themselves (because then they can force people to pay for a new set of plates to boot) and everyone will not only be tracked per mile but also where they go. Of course they will say thats not going to happen but yeah whatever.

    related articles....

    https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/266626-california-testing-mileage-fees-as-gas-tax-replacement

    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/11/california-considers-mileage-tax/
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    Ungood said:
    mmrv said:
    Ungood said:
    mmrv said:

    Popple said:


    Ungood said:







    exile01 said:


    I dont think this is news-worthy...


    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?









    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.




    Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!



    Wouldnt matter the analogy is incorrect. anthem is the product the lease would be with not the other titles in the library. A more accurate comparison would be you lease 2 cars from ford break the lease with car A and they then break the contract and lease and repossess car B as well. That is against the law.

    Just to clear things up. A lease is provided though a Bank, or loan provider.

    If you have the lease for both cars though the same provider, and you break contract, the provider can opt, at their discretion depending on the severity of the situation, to cancel any and all other accounts you have with them, like checking accounts, credit cards, and also including the lease on the other car, and reposes both cars.

    Also keep in mind that the NDA was signed with EA & Bioware, as a company, as a whole, not just with Anthem. It was regarding Anthem, but signed with EA & Bioware, this it can affect any and all other dealings you have with, this included any other services they may provide you.

    Just saying.. 
    I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars  on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. 
    Oh No No No.. Make no mistake..  YES they can.

    Depending on the severity of the breech on conduct, a private institution can flat out terminate any and ALL dealings they have with you, and refuse to engage in any future dealings with you.

    If you think they can't protect themselves in this manner, you are flat out wrong.
    they can freeze your account, based for lack of payment, so they can then enter in a process to use the account funds to pay for the money you are owned, but they can't cancel it
    mmolou said:
    mmrv said:
    I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars  on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. Each contract is a separate business agreement.
    Ok.

    If you really believe that, try this:

    Go to a bank, any bank, and open a bank account.
    Then with the same bank, open a bank account for a child.

    Put money in your bank account, and put money in the child's bank account.

    Mess about with your bank account, go overdrawn, owe the bank money, refuse to pay it.

    Watch as the bank take the money from the child's account, and any other account that is with that bank and in credit that has your name attached to it in any way.

    Then try and tell them they cannot do what they did as they are separate contracts for different products, see how far that gets you.

    Go one step further and claim they can not legally do it, see how that goes.

    Let us know here how you get on ;P
    You would be amazed what people think they are entitled to, or what the law says, or what rights they think they have.

    The reality is a lot of companies have a lot of rights to protect themselves, and Banks are the absolute worst when it comes to their ability to protect themselves and screw their clients.
    ConstantineMerusmmolou
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,022
    thunderC said:
    Suspend his account for a month or two, fine. Maybe ban him from purchasing Anthem for 6 months, I could support that. Wipe his library of games he paid for, Thats just being scummy but what else should one expect from EA.

    So no accountability at all? No wonder we are fucked as a society. No one takes responsibility anymore. It's always someone else's fault, this time "big bad " EA. I hope he had a huge library of games.
    ConstantineMerusGorwe
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,022
    Do we really own the games we pay for or are they licensed to us for limited use? Digital rights are usually written up as licensed to use, not to own. Like buying an MMO and it closes down, what rights do we have to continue to use all the things we paid for?
    if that is the case, why pay at all? I will just get the "free" copy of the internet and be done with it
    Ya, I'm sure you weren't going to pirate anyways. Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your theft.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,523
    edited December 2018
    Wanna bet the game will be a shit show? Also, while I agree with NDA breach bans, this is just extreme. IF the account was not a throwaway test to begin with.

    Regardless, this is why I keep mentioning you don't own your "games", but merely a license to them.
  • DarkEvilHatredDarkEvilHatred Member UncommonPosts: 177
    Who cares?!

    Enough said.
    JeffSpicoli
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    Isn't NDA violation a crime? So for doing a crime he has lost some games. I say he got off easy. Respect the freaking NDA. People think since it's digital and it's about a game so it's alright to break it. Grow the hell up. 

    That aside, there are quite a few downsides to put your collection into a digital library. You break the rules, you'd lose your account. That's just one of them. However, what's the alternative? They ship you physical discs? That's more like a reward than a punishment. Or maybe they shouldn't ban anyone who has paid them a cent no matter what they do? 

    I read a lot of posts about consumers right. Which is cool, I don't have anything against that. But I am not sure what would be the solution here. Of course I am not talking about banning people for no reason or such. But when someone deserves a ban, what should a company be doing?
    Most company NDAs are civil as there are no federal or state laws that prohibit people from violating them.  They can do something with your account which they have full control over or take you to court or arbitration for compensation of damages and you can do the same to them. 

    Federal government NDAs are usually tied to actual laws like violations of national security and theft.

    But all of this is just opinion so do your own research.
    ConstantineMerus

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

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