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NDA Violation During Anthem Alpha Nets One Player an Empty Origin Game Library - MMORPG.com

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  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    edited December 2018
    mmorpg.com forum users, only the greatest of bird law lawyers here.
    JeffSpicoliScotty787alkarionlogKyleranGdemamiAllerleirauhtweedledumb99MrMelGibson
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,325
    Kyleran said:




    You know, if you would devote this much energy crusading for something useful we could probably eliminate world hunger or something. :D

    EA has deep enough pockets to out-lawyer most anyone so a couple of pro tips.

    1) Don't sign NDA agreements unless you intend to keep them. A man is only as good as his word.
    2) Don't purchase new games until you are able to verify they are up to your personal standards.
    3) Its 60 damn bucks or whatever, let's keep this in the proper perspective. If that is a real burden to you wait until it goes on sale, you don't have to buy it at launch.

    World hunger is a tough problem to solve, but these first world gaming issues, not so much.

    I'm on a roll....

    B)

    Pretty much this.

    Why make life any hard than it is. If you sign an NDA then just keep your word. If you don't think you can keep your word then don't sign it.

    If there ARE illegal shenanigans or one discovers, through playing a video game, that the company is involved in real world "running guns across the border" they sure, be a whistle blower.

    Anything more involved means it isn't necessary to break the NDA.
    mmolouScotty787alkarionlogKyleranMrMelGibson



  • parpinparpin Member UncommonPosts: 211
    the streamer was jerk, if a company trust you and gave you early access, that is very good for your channel as content creator because later you can talk about it a little bit and say your overall impression of the game without giving out details, i have seen some youtubers did this who were in alpha program and they got a lot of views, but this cheater jerk got banned and black listed not just by bioware but other companies will black list him too. he deserves it.
    alkarionlog
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,856
    edited December 2018
    Do we really own the games we pay for or are they licensed to us for limited use? Digital rights are usually written up as licensed to use, not to own. Like buying an MMO and it closes down, what rights do we have to continue to use all the things we paid for?

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,778
    Kyleran said:


    Thinking the account is a throw away account.  If this really was his account the EA greatly overstepped their bounds here.  This close to the game launching I find it odd there is a closed alpha .



    All depends on the terms of the NDA and whether or not they are enforceable.

    That's true, but we have Valve doing something diametrically opposite of that and they tow the legal line pretty close. If your Valve/Steam account is permabanned for whatever, you don't lose access to your purchased items.

    This implies that blocking access to prior digital purchases, at a store level, may not be legal.

    It also shows the potential danger of locking your games into third party services. If you buy a game on Steam you know it won't be taken away at this level. If you buy a game on Origin now, you just don't know. Can Ubisoft do this? What about that new Epic store? If you get permabanned in Fortnite will you lose hundreds of dollars of games purchased through their store?

    There isn't a question whether violating TOS or an NDA is inappropriate. The question being, how far can they take remediation? 

    This also speaks to how poorly the hype culture of streamers/influencers are affecting the hobby. They don't belong at the forefront of games releases, in game awards, or starting little fires of tribalism and anarchy with their review bombs. So with that said, we should find out if this "influencer" is telling the truth or making something up for revenge.
    SovrathKyleranlaseritMrMelGibsonGorwe
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited December 2018
    Do we really own the games we pay for or are they licensed to us for limited use? Digital rights are usually written up as licensed to use, not to own. Like buying an MMO and it closes down, what rights do we have to continue to use all the things we paid for?
    We don't own any of these software products, despite their being advertised completely as purchases.  You'd need a fucking lawyer on retainer to keep track of the EULAs you are a party to in your every day Life.

    That's the core issue underlying most of the legislative snafus with digital goods.
    Octagon7711Gdemami

    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited December 2018
    Here's something to think about, how did they shut him down before he got passed the welcome screen?

    Was someone able to contact EA/Bioware within 1 degree of separation from the authority to immediately do something like that, or was it a software based response...

    image
    ApollosWill
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851

    Torval said:


    Kyleran said:





    Thinking the account is a throw away account.  If this really was his account the EA greatly overstepped their bounds here.  This close to the game launching I find it odd there is a closed alpha .






    All depends on the terms of the NDA and whether or not they are enforceable.





    That's true, but we have Valve doing something diametrically opposite of that and they tow the legal line pretty close. If your Valve/Steam account is permabanned for whatever, you don't lose access to your purchased items.

    This implies that blocking access to prior digital purchases, at a store level, may not be legal.

    It also shows the potential danger of locking your games into third party services. If you buy a game on Steam you know it won't be taken away at this level. If you buy a game on Origin now, you just don't know. Can Ubisoft do this? What about that new Epic store? If you get permabanned in Fortnite will you lose hundreds of dollars of games purchased through their store?

    There isn't a question whether violating TOS or an NDA is inappropriate. The question being, how far can they take remediation? 

    This also speaks to how poorly the hype culture of streamers/influencers are affecting the hobby. They don't belong at the forefront of games releases, in game awards, or starting little fires of tribalism and anarchy with their review bombs. So with that said, we should find out if this "influencer" is telling the truth or making something up for revenge.



    Remember when you purchase a game on Steam, you are purchasing "the right to an open-ended subscription". Honestly nothing in your Steam library is yours or ever going to be yours. We put blind faith into large companies when we probably shouldn't, that said with how large Steam is it's an after thought for most people...for now.
    Octagon7711
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • GroqstrongGroqstrong Member UncommonPosts: 337



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Wrong you bought WoW, do you own it? I buy a Ford, I can't reverse engineer the PCM and sell the secrets to Dodge.


  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,868
    Do we really own the games we pay for or are they licensed to us for limited use? Digital rights are usually written up as licensed to use, not to own. Like buying an MMO and it closes down, what rights do we have to continue to use all the things we paid for?
    if that is the case, why pay at all? I will just get the "free" copy of the internet and be done with it
    parpin
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • PopplePopple Member UncommonPosts: 239
    edited December 2018
    "smokethrone" has also lost all access to his Origin library.

    Now here the strange part..If he bought over let say $1000 worth of games on Origin and they (EA) Decided to shut Origin down on him and the person cannot have said excess to his games. I think this is illegal..If this is going to be a trend where companies can do this for anything then buyers beware! If i had $1000 worth of games "Hard Copy" Disk from EA are they going to come to my house and take all the games i bought from their company?Same thing its illegal..

    I retired retroactively..Haha

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,868
    edited December 2018
    Do we really own the games we pay for or are they licensed to us for limited use? Digital rights are usually written up as licensed to use, not to own. Like buying an MMO and it closes down, what rights do we have to continue to use all the things we paid for?
    We don't own any of these software products, despite their being advertised completely as purchases.  You'd need a fucking lawyer on retainer to keep track of the EULAs you are a party to in your every day Life.

    That's the core issue underlying most of the legislative snafus with digital goods.
    eula's don't overwrite consumers right, any abusive clause will make the whole thing null and void.

    serious if they can void a prenup, anything can be voided, even more something who have no power to be enforced
    GdemamiMrMelGibson
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,778



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Wrong you bought WoW, do you own it? I buy a Ford, I can't reverse engineer the PCM and sell the secrets to Dodge.


    The aftermarket car parts industry is built on this so bad analogy.
    MadFrenchieMrMelGibson
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,868
    Torval said:



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Wrong you bought WoW, do you own it? I buy a Ford, I can't reverse engineer the PCM and sell the secrets to Dodge.


    The aftermarket car parts industry is built on this so bad analogy.
    actually wow was also reverse engineered, how you think some bots and emulators work?
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,618
    Reading half of these comments really makes me aware of how many sheep exist. People are perfectly fine paying 60$ for something they dont own anymore, which hasn't been anything really new now for 15 years. This leads into a bigger issue of if you do something these platforms dont want you to or more importantly dont like you doing, you lose everything, not just access to things related to what you did. Is it wrong for EA to punish them? No. They could easily revoke any future testing access as well as fine the account. But to strip access of stuff that was previously purchased isn't right. But is there a way around this though, realistically? No. All games in today's market (including physical) need access to the internet at least once. There's not a single game (to my knowledge) that hasn't had some kind of day 1 patch or whatever if you've bought the physical copy, while a lot of companies have stopped selling physical discs all together now. I mean, I understand people getting mad at developers/publishers to having us pay a price that we've been paying for nearly 20 years and getting lower quality of games for that time, but we've honestly stopped getting a product at all and have been paying that price for a service. Welcome to the future I guess.
    JeffSpicoliGdemamialkarionlogTorval
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.
    Octagon7711ConstantineMerusMrMelGibson
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,841
    Is there even any evidence that this streamer owned other games on that account?

    The entire thing could well be the streamer attempting to lash back with bad PR as punishment for their punishment of his actions. 
    TorvalEponyxDamorMrMelGibson
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Here's something to think about, how did they shut him down before he got passed the welcome screen?

    Was someone able to contact EA/Bioware within 1 degree of separation from the authority to immediately do something like that, or was it a software based response...

    image
    It's pretty simple how and I'd bet the permission is right in that NDA document he digitally signed.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,856
    Hashbrick said:
    mmorpg.com forum users, only the greatest of bird law lawyers here.
    On the internet you don't have to be an expert like you would in a court of law. :smile:

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • PopplePopple Member UncommonPosts: 239
    Ungood said:



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.


    Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!
    Gdemamimmolou

    I retired retroactively..Haha

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,841
    edited December 2018
    Here's something to think about, how did they shut him down before he got passed the welcome screen?

    Was someone able to contact EA/Bioware within 1 degree of separation from the authority to immediately do something like that, or was it a software based response...

    Perhaps the alpha client was programmed to recognize Twitch and other similar programs running in the background? A similar kerfuffle happened with Destiny 2 allegedly banning players who ran basic 3rd party programs like Discord.
    MrMelGibson
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Ungood said:



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.
    I don't lease vehicles, I buy them.

    If game publishers are leasing me games and not selling them to me, I'd suggest they make that abundantly clear.

    In big huge letters "LEASE ME" "YOU DO NOT OWN THIS PRODUCT"
    PopplealkarionlogRoin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited December 2018
    Ungood said:



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.
    Agreed, but car dealerships aren't allowed to frame the lease like you own it.

    We've literally baked in protections, both via legislation and consumer conditioning, for software developers to falsely advertise their transactions with us in a gross way.
    Torval

    image
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,856
    Amazon Erases Orwell Books From Kindle

    On Friday, it was “1984” and another Orwell book, “Animal Farm,” that were dropped down the memory hole — by Amazon.com.

    In a move that angered customers and generated waves of online pique, Amazon remotely deleted some digital editions of the books from the Kindle devices of readers who had bought them.

    People who bought the rescinded editions of the books reacted with indignation, while acknowledging the literary ironies involved. “Of all the books to recall,” said Charles Slater, an executive with a sheet-music retailer in Philadelphia, who bought the digital edition of “1984” for 99 cents last month. “I never imagined that Amazon actually had the right, the authority or even the ability to delete something that I had already purchased.”



    Of course Amazon said they should never had done it and would never do it again, but think, if there was a court order that XYZ book should be recalled and removed from their library and even from those who purchased it, they would have to comply or fight it in court.  Just like Apple reserves the right to void your warranty if you have your iPhone fixed by an independent business.  
    H0urg1asslaseritConstantineMerus

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Popple said:
    Ungood said:



    exile01 said:

    I dont think this is news-worthy...

    You guys fail to see the news here

    When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ?
    You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours.
    You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours

    What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.

    Still not news worthy ?






    Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.


    Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!

    Are you really trying to be pissy and technical?

    Well, since they never put a time limit, that was 80 to lease it for as long as you like, sure beats that 5 a week eh?

    Now, if you are going to get your panties in a wad over this, read the fine print, you paid to add that game to your Account Library. Lose the account, you lose the game.

    Life is hard.. it's harder if your stupid.
    alkarionlogmmolourkip
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