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Need low end graphics

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,507
edited November 2018 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
If a large company like Blizzard or ArenaNet asked YOU to oversee a super multi million mmorpg no questions asked.  What would your overall synopsis be: 

I would ignore the public completely and have low end graphics and concentrate on a HUGE world.  I'll leave HUGE world to your interpretation.... Out matching hardware/software battles are leaving mmorpg gamers in the cold. 


Points: 
-I'm a believer pro-graphics people will adapt. I'm 100% sure of this.  However It better be a "very good game" and I'll leave very good for interpretation (that's not the topic).  

-Everyone want's to play.  Unrelated to mmorpg's, read Steam discussions for ANY GAME.  Most all complaints are hardware issues, that's if the player purchases the game at all because they don't have what it takes. 

-Millennials had shifted from video games to social media.  They gave up on PC Hardware to smart phones. They have cheap laptops and rely on Xbox because they no longer care about the price wars, it's not that important to them anymore !!!.... This is not to say they couldn't be brought back for a " very good game".   However it better play on a laptop they have in their closet. 
Millennials want the easy softer way that's fun... They can have that in a "very good game". 

-Immersion my ass!!!.... You have a power rig and you want to show it off like a sports car... Don't be selfish because YOU have the money.

-Priorities in life.  Many here care about mmoprg's, many don't !  
Many would like to try....Many don't even know it yet.....Let's not make them pay $2,000.00 to try. 



Let's wrap things up with this: 
Pantheon (visionary realms) is making a very big mistake.  I for one am loosing confidence.  

They have the right "vision" of a true mmorpg.  They will fail with their high end graphic choice AND PROGRAMMING. 

I'm mad, and feel let down.  I think they will knock the comeback of first generation into the stone age.... Their only chance is to spend 10 more years in development.       
Reference: see Vanguard (good game, bad game)

Then again, who knows, a LOT is kept secret.  The secret is getting old ! 

disclaimer: 
Yes, I'll be playing any way too...Remember this word "YES"...People like to twist things here for later use :) 
Post edited by delete5230 on
mmolouAsheramceratop001Gdemami

Comments

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,771
    edited November 2018
    edit: That's one way of succeeding. That's, probably, why WoW succeeded and EQ2 failed. Ok, Warcraft IP was bigger than EQ was, but I still think that the overall super access-ability of WoW was what give it the momentum to keep rising like some kind of pastry.

    What I require is nice and logical artwork. Hell, I don't like Wildstar style, but if it's put together nicely...I don't care about 16x AA(at all). 
    delete5230
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,575
    edited November 2018
    -Millennials had shifted from video games to social media.  They gave up on PC Hardware to smart phones. They have cheap laptops [...]
    Hate to break it for you but that won't last long either, as mobiles get more and more computing power... as a matter of fact the high end smartphones can replace your notebook even today, and when it will slide down towards the mid-range it will be more widespread - I'd guess in 2-3 years from now. And then the cheap laptops you mention will follow the nettop/netbook line's fate a decade ago.

    Just look at Dex today ( https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/ ), it is already good for everything you need from a generic laptop or desktop. Besides the high-end PC and console games, but for those a generic laptop ain't sufficient either. But in return it is good for all the mobile games, which market is on the rise (unfortunately, says my PC gamer self).

    You might say it is still just a mobile, with all its limitations on the software side - and you might be correct. Except that from this month you can put Ubuntu on it... and with that it's now pretty much a viable PC replacement - minus gaming.

    ed: https://youtu.be/11T-6ZnUK9E?t=116
    Post edited by Po_gg on
    Jean-Luc_PicardMrMelGibson
  • AmatheAmathe Member EpicPosts: 4,893
    Your claim that the graphical sky is falling in Pantheon is based on absolutely nothing. 
    Jean-Luc_PicardMrMelGibsonEponyxDamor

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,652
    "I hate mobile games or social media. Let me say millennials do that instead of something I like, to blame them regardless of how asinine it sounds"
    Jean-Luc_Picard
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,418
    Gorwe said:
    edit: That's one way of succeeding. That's, probably, why WoW succeeded and EQ2 failed. Ok, Warcraft IP was bigger than EQ was, but I still think that the overall super access-ability of WoW was what give it the momentum to keep rising like some kind of pastry.

    What I require is nice and logical artwork. Hell, I don't like Wildstar style, but if it's put together nicely...I don't care about 16x AA(at all). 
    Low system requirements undoubtedly helped WoW.  But, low system requirements and "low end graphics" in the context being used by Delete aren't the same thing, IMO.

    "put together nicely" is the key phrase here.

    "Accessible" does not mean low-quality.  A game with low requirements can just as easily put in as much time to polish and fine-tune their work.

    I would ignore the public completely and have low end graphics and concentrate on a HUGE world.  I'll leave HUGE world to your interpretation.... Out matching hardware/software battles are leaving mmorpg gamers in the cold.

    Blizzard put a ton of time and work into those stylized graphics and the art of their world, I don't doubt.  Suggesting that their choice of graphics somehow made it so they could develop a bigger world is silly.
    WoW had some of the smoothest, most fluid animations and graphics I've seen.  The sheer level of polish and love/effort they put into those things is incredible.

    I didn't work on WoW or anything, but I'd say it's kind of insulting to those guys who hand-crafted that entire game to suggest they didn't spend just as much time on it as any other team that focused more on realism.
    Graphics take a lot of love and time, period.

    I'd be willing to bet that the Blizzard art team spends a massive amount of time on art design for all of their games.

    I actually really liked WoW's art style.  It felt like you were in a hand-painted world.  GW2's character models admittedly were kind of "eh", but their overall art/landscapes were incredible.
    -I'm a believer pro-graphics people will adapt. I'm 100% sure of this.  However It better be a "very good game" and I'll leave very good for interpretation (that's not the topic). 
    There is a massive difference between stylized graphics and "low end".  You are talking art vs. photographs.  Pro-graphics doesn't necessarily mean requiring photorealism.

    "Bad" graphics would be another conversation entirely.  Bad graphics absolutely can turn players away.  I guess you could hastily rush through the art and have just really badly designed graphics to save time, but not many studios are going to do that intentionally.
    What you end up with is clunky, awkward, horrible animations and broken equipment clipping through bodies, etc., that make the actual gameplay completely uncomfortable for many(not just graphics-crazed folks).

    As an example, spend some time comparing EQ2 to WoW.  EQ2 had much, much higher system/graphics requirements, tried to go more realistic style, but their models and animations were/are largely considered "bad".

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,507
    Amathe said:
    Your claim that the graphical sky is falling in Pantheon is based on absolutely nothing. 
    Not much of nothing is coming out of Pantheon.  
    But, hay you could read a lot, someone did a lot of before-hand-writing.  

    I'm confidant it will all be a reality.... When is a different story, because their above their heads with graphics.
  • SaelemSaelem Member UncommonPosts: 30
    edited November 2018
    I didn’t realize Pantheon was pushing cutting edge graphics. I did have the problem you mentioned when EQ2 came out. I wanted to play it so badly but never had the PC for it. I’m finally playing it now and it’s still demanding on my pc maxing out the graphics. I actually love the NPC models in EQ2, they’re very lifelike with whatever that movement technology they used was. The character models aren’t the greatest but they redid a lot of them from the original versions.
    delete5230
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,587
    Saelem said:
    I didn’t realize Pantheon was pushing cutting edge graphics. I did have the problem you mentioned when EQ2 came out. I wanted to play it so badly but never had the PC for it. I’m finally playing it now and it’s still demanding on my pc maxing out the graphics. I actually love the NPC models in EQ2, they’re very lifelike with whatever that movement technology they used was. The character models aren’t the greatest but they redid a lot of them from the original versions.
    The problem with EQ2 animations isn't so much that they're bad in themselves as that they're uncorrelated with what your character is actually doing.  Your character can be attacking an enemy and have the animation show that you're attacking, but where your character is in the animation loop has no bearing whatsoever on when damage numbers appear.
    delete5230Lokero
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 2,995
    Amathe said:
    Your claim that the graphical sky is falling in Pantheon is based on absolutely nothing. 
    So basically just another day, another post from Delete.
    Jean-Luc_PicardmmolouVrikaAsheramceratop001
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,507
    edited November 2018
    Amathe said:
    Your claim that the graphical sky is falling in Pantheon is based on absolutely nothing. 
    So basically just another day, another post from Delete.
    Jean-Luc loves this, he sits their all day waiting for a chance for a dig :) 

    It's kind of scary the obsession, he maybe sitting in a dark room flicking the light switch on and off. 
    But really graphics is what's holding up Pantheon ! 
    Their messing around too much.
    It's almost like they haven't even started making the game yet.
  • AsheramAsheram Member RarePosts: 3,582
    Amathe said:
    Your claim that the graphical sky is falling in Pantheon is based on absolutely nothing. 
    So basically just another day, another post from Delete.
    Should I give him an awesome Rick Roll, the best one yet even better than the russian Rick Roll?


    MrMelGibson
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,771
    Quizzical said:
    Saelem said:
    I didn’t realize Pantheon was pushing cutting edge graphics. I did have the problem you mentioned when EQ2 came out. I wanted to play it so badly but never had the PC for it. I’m finally playing it now and it’s still demanding on my pc maxing out the graphics. I actually love the NPC models in EQ2, they’re very lifelike with whatever that movement technology they used was. The character models aren’t the greatest but they redid a lot of them from the original versions.
    The problem with EQ2 animations isn't so much that they're bad in themselves as that they're uncorrelated with what your character is actually doing.  Your character can be attacking an enemy and have the animation show that you're attacking, but where your character is in the animation loop has no bearing whatsoever on when damage numbers appear.
    I actually have a problem with how the models themselves look. It's.../shudder. I know it's an old game and all, but...!
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,427
    Here is the problem with low end graphics and gameplay.

    It is akin to females.

    Gameplay = personality
    Graphics = looks

    It is a toss up you know, but the power of looks man. 
    Asheramceratop001
  • BrunlinBrunlin Member UncommonPosts: 75
    edited November 2018
      The mmorpg genre is probably the least demanding when it comes to hardware. That being said it really doesnt take much to play all games that come out, even FPS in mid to low graphic settings if you have any kind of gaming rig 1 to 7 years old. A modern 1050 ti or hell a cheaper Rx 570 matched with a low budget cpu such as  a Ryen 3 or a I3 8100, 8 gigs of ram...and you can play anything demanding on low settings...You can play any mmo probably on high settings. There is no game that requires a 2000 dollar build. If you are opposed to desktops and have to play on a lap top than you can pick something up at Walmart for 500 dollars :D .

     Back in 2012 i built a I5-2550k (same as a 2500k little faster clock no onboard video) matched with a 7870 Sapphire with 2 gigs of VR, with 8 gigs of DDR3 and i was playing EQ, Eq 2, Archage, Elder Scrolls Online, Black Desert Online, Tera, Neverwinter Online, Albion, etc, etc. BDO is probably the most demanding of all that. During Archage i accidentally dropped a glass of water on my 240 mm vent on top of my case and killed my mobo, psu, and later my video card. I salvaged my gaming rig with a cheap mobo and better psu, and later had to buy a video card which i got a low end 1050ti(because of crypto miners... cards faster than a 1050 ti where stupidly priced). So now with a old I5 cpu and a 1050ti...I can still play any game including FPS atleast on medium settings. 

     My point is there is no MMO coming out that requires a high end hardware to play  in 1080 gaming. If you must play on a laptop or something more portable than there is plenty of streaming solutions such as Steam Link,Nvidia Shield, and other solutions  that will let you play your games using your PC and casting to your Tv or playing on the Shield and there are others that will let you cast to any laptop.
       
    Oh btw, I did spend 600ish dollars during Black Friday on pc deals to upgrade to a new pc. using only my case and Psu...I will now have a Nvme m2 boot drive a 500 gig ssd gaming drive, 16 gigs of ddr4, moving over to Amd on the cpu with a Ryzen 7 1700x, a Rx580 8 gigs of vr Asus (2 free games Division 2 and Dmc 5 Sweet!!!), and B450 Tomahawk mobo....I am going to be set for years for only 600ish no where around 2k....Funny thing is i will spend most of my time leveling alts in Everquest one on coirnav or the next tlp that may come for the 20th anniversary and i can play that on a 50 dollar potato)

    As for mobile gaming, everyone has a phone and there are more people that will never own a console or a pc to play games but will play games on the phone, so obviously thats a big market that will entice some big game companies like Bethesda and Blizzard to make phone games, thats going to happen no matter what.
          

    If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0

  • t0nydt0nyd Member UncommonPosts: 504
    I wouldn't put graphics top on my list of MMORPG priorities. It's not even in my top 5...

    1. Character customization
    2. Character customization
    3. Enjoyable combat
    4. Open world
    5. Pvp
    Brunlindelete5230
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,900
    Graphics means a lot more than just seeing  just as character customization means a lot more past that initial screen.
    Graphics involves the character model,so you want a robot stiff or more vertices making your character at least move more realistic even if the textures are low end.
    That is the thing,i often hear people making excuses for bad graphics ,saying stuff like "i like them".
    You can have graphics you like to look at and still be done properly/well.

    We should also remember this is NOT MUD gaming,this is not board gaming,this is VIDEO,people know what the term VIDEO means?
    Definition:a recording of moving visual images made digitally or on videotape.
    Keyword is VISUAL,so for anyone to say,i don't want good visual in a visual standard is what,in the wrong game/design?

    it is like a car's paint job,to say "i don't want a nice looking paint job is ridiculous.
    In life people almost ALWAYS like things to look nice,you like your kids to look nice,your clothes,your house,your carpet,your lighting fixtures,it is ALWAYS like that.

    Then the obvious,this is VIDEO GAMING,we need BOTH,the video and the gaming.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,568
    Here is the problem with low end graphics and gameplay.

    It is akin to females.

    Gameplay = personality
    Graphics = looks

    It is a toss up you know, but the power of looks man. 
    Wow I have never even thought about graphics like a woman. So if my graphics card gets really hot that means she's pmsing?
    Asheram
     
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,844
    Lokero said:
    <snip>

    I would ignore the public completely and have low end graphics and concentrate on a HUGE world.  I'll leave HUGE world to your interpretation.... Out matching hardware/software battles are leaving mmorpg gamers in the cold.

    Blizzard put a ton of time and work into those stylized graphics and the art of their world, I don't doubt.  Suggesting that their choice of graphics somehow made it so they could develop a bigger world is silly.
    WoW had some of the smoothest, most fluid animations and graphics I've seen.  The sheer level of polish and love/effort they put into those things is incredible.

    I didn't work on WoW or anything, but I'd say it's kind of insulting to those guys who hand-crafted that entire game to suggest they didn't spend just as much time on it as any other team that focused more on realism.
    <snip>

    Oh yes.

    There was a question on the DAoC "forum" (VN boards) back in the day asking why DAoC couldn't have graphics as good as WoW and the response was - something along the lines of - wtf their art team was three times bigger than there entire staff.

    Blizzard's produced stills, story boards etc first. with lots of detail; they were not "cartoon" like. These were then animated. Blizzard then "reworked" the graphics - simplyfying what they had by combining individual pixels that were about the same into what they called "big pixels". For every scene. Which is also why WoW never looked like a cartoon - it was full on style subsequently simplified.

    So it did indeed take a lot of work - and money - to produce.
    Lokero
  • t0nydt0nyd Member UncommonPosts: 504
    edited November 2018
    Wizardry said:
    Graphics means a lot more than just seeing  just as character customization means a lot more past that initial screen.
    Graphics involves the character model,so you want a robot stiff or more vertices making your character at least move more realistic even if the textures are low end.
    That is the thing,i often hear people making excuses for bad graphics ,saying stuff like "i like them".
    You can have graphics you like to look at and still be done properly/well.

    We should also remember this is NOT MUD gaming,this is not board gaming,this is VIDEO,people know what the term VIDEO means?
    Definition:a recording of moving visual images made digitally or on videotape.
    Keyword is VISUAL,so for anyone to say,i don't want good visual in a visual standard is what,in the wrong game/design?

    it is like a car's paint job,to say "i don't want a nice looking paint job is ridiculous.
    In life people almost ALWAYS like things to look nice,you like your kids to look nice,your clothes,your house,your carpet,your lighting fixtures,it is ALWAYS like that.

    Then the obvious,this is VIDEO GAMING,we need BOTH,the video and the gaming.

    Your analogy makes no sense. With a vehicle you sacrificen nothingby having a nice paint job. With games, pretty comes with a trade-off...

    I like City of Heroes / villains. I love the character customization. I would never call it a pretty game.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,507
    t0nyd said:
    Wizardry said:
    Graphics means a lot more than just seeing  just as character customization means a lot more past that initial screen.
    Graphics involves the character model,so you want a robot stiff or more vertices making your character at least move more realistic even if the textures are low end.
    That is the thing,i often hear people making excuses for bad graphics ,saying stuff like "i like them".
    You can have graphics you like to look at and still be done properly/well.

    We should also remember this is NOT MUD gaming,this is not board gaming,this is VIDEO,people know what the term VIDEO means?
    Definition:a recording of moving visual images made digitally or on videotape.
    Keyword is VISUAL,so for anyone to say,i don't want good visual in a visual standard is what,in the wrong game/design?

    it is like a car's paint job,to say "i don't want a nice looking paint job is ridiculous.
    In life people almost ALWAYS like things to look nice,you like your kids to look nice,your clothes,your house,your carpet,your lighting fixtures,it is ALWAYS like that.

    Then the obvious,this is VIDEO GAMING,we need BOTH,the video and the gaming.

    Your analogy makes no sense. With a vehicle you sacrificen nothingby having a nice paint job. With games, pretty comes with a trade-off...

    I like City of Heroes / villains. I love the character customization. I would never call it a pretty game.
    I was thinking the same thing.  A paint job has nothing to do with how a vehicle runs. 

    I guess most want pretty and demand a good game too ?... But pretty first. 
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,507
    It's like this: 
    We have a nurse staying over every night watching her disabled grandchild.  We needed to get a nurse's station for all the machines and medications.   

    Their was ONLY ONE ANSWER, we had to build it.  The wife said no it will be ugly and not fit the purpose.... Totally ignoring ONLY ONE ANSWER.  I made blue prints, even in 3D.  No matter what I did she couldn't grasp or visualize it.... She was dead-set and hung up on the world homemade. 

    I built this extravagant thing with strong halogen lights and outlets all over it, and panted it white.  No bullshit, it was beautiful, her and all the nurses and EVERYONE agrees.  

    The moral of the story ? 
    Sometimes you have to ignore the public and do what needs to be done.  



    It's only 2018.... Were not their yet !!!!! 
    Hardware and software is extremely expensive on both ends... In fact it's still on the scientific level with experimental cost.  An mmorpg can't afford both game play and graphics.  

    Most of you are alike my wife..... And have to be ignored !!!!
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,418
    It's like this: 
    We have a nurse staying over every night watching her disabled grandchild.  We needed to get a nurse's station for all the machines and medications.   

    Their was ONLY ONE ANSWER, we had to build it.  The wife said no it will be ugly and not fit the purpose.... Totally ignoring ONLY ONE ANSWER.  I made blue prints, even in 3D.  No matter what I did she couldn't grasp or visualize it.... She was dead-set and hung up on the world homemade. 

    I built this extravagant thing with strong halogen lights and outlets all over it, and panted it white.  No bullshit, it was beautiful, her and all the nurses and EVERYONE agrees.  

    The moral of the story ? 
    Sometimes you have to ignore the public and do what needs to be done.  



    It's only 2018.... Were not their yet !!!!! 
    Hardware and software is extremely expensive on both ends... In fact it's still on the scientific level with experimental cost.  An mmorpg can't afford both game play and graphics.  

    Most of you are alike my wife..... And have to be ignored !!!!
    Except, your example, is the exact opposite of your OP :tongue:

    To build that station you drew up 3D blueprints and built something "extravagant" and "beautiful".  You put real time and effort into making sure it was high-quality. 

    Which is exactly what you are saying developers should NOT do.

    So, really, you are the one who's like your wife ;)

    Now, picture you had made your station the way you are telling others to do it...  it would have been ugly and ratty looking, un-level, and probably had a half-finished coat of paint.
    Amathe
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 539


    Let's wrap things up with this: 
    Pantheon (visionary realms) is making a very big mistake.  I for one am loosing confidence.  

    They have the right "vision" of a true mmorpg.  They will fail with their high end graphic choice AND PROGRAMMING.


    Unity Engine is not capable of output high end graphics, you probably confusing it with CryEngine or Unreal.
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