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Saga of Lucimia, The hiden gem ?

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
I'm getting excited,
On a "very passive" scale I've been following development of this mmorpg.  I'll have to admit nothing more than what's been discussed here on our forums and lightly thread their web site.  

Saga of Lucimia is a crowd funded game that seems to follow a more true Everquest 1 feel, infact more so than Pantheon.  What I like about this game is the no frills development.  It doesn't seem to have many features other than classless character builds.... In an odd way I LOVE THAT.  

I'm ok with a simple feature game where you make a name for your self with a community, or go about the world and find stuff.  After all take an offline mainstream game such as The Witcher 3 and remove the story, theirs still lots to do.  Think about that !... Now add a community to that idea and you have a fun game that could last for years.  I'll take a community over developer commentary any day :) 


Saga of Lucimia is still in pre-alpha stage this is true.  However their offering a lot of community testing and it seems to be ramping up.  Infact the next one is December 8th – 14th and all it takes is The Adventurer pack for $40.  I'm not trying to promote anything here but simply saying this game is truly MOVING ALONG.  



Just thinking out loud, here are my thoughts:
I'm not a first generation EQ1 player but I want to be.  I'll not play a 1999 bug filled, badly coded game where the AI and UI is a mess, I'll leave that to the nostalgia fans..... But I want that experience !... To get this I have two choices, Pantheon or Saga of Lucimia.  Unfortunately my Prize game (Pantheon) is light years away and I have a "deep gut feeling" it will be a nightmare release years down the road.... I have faith but a mess none the less.  This leaves me with Saga of Lucimia, but I can't rule nothing out.  

Saga of Lucimia,
After the Holidays as we go into deep Winter and a few more builds I may jump on the band wagon, take on a new hobby.  I'll take advantage of the many weekend testing's ignore/report bugs and have fun with a hobby along with embracing the community. 


I'll finally find a home   
RenfailVesavius
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Comments

  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    edited November 2018
    Quick note: we're not exactly crowdfunded. 

    We're self-funded (everyone on the team has a day job and works on this project at nights/on weekend), with our nine LLC members receiving zero money for their time on this project: we get paid when the product launches. 

    We operated out of our own pockets for a year and a half in the beginning, but since September of 2015 our pre-order store has paid for legal fees and the cost of doing business (servers/licensing/etc.) and is a means for fans to support what we're building and get involved in early access (we've had players logging into the game since September 2015). 

    After we did the Intel Top 10 Indie Game Dev Showcase at the Austin Game Conference in late 2017, we received seed funding that has paid for our five contractors throughout 2018. We had six, but Liz got an amazing job offer with Naughty Dog working on Last of Us 2, so we pushed her out the door with high-fives. 

    As some folks like to point out, we *did* have an Indiegogo in... late 2014? This was prior to our LLC formation and we had friends and some fans wanting to give us money, but we had no legal way to accept funding for tax purposes, so we spun up a little campaign to allow folks to pitch in. I think it did a whopping 3k or 4k or something. It was like 30-40 people.  

    Our team is looking forward to Pantheon like everyone else, but in the meantime we're plugging along building our own little project. There are some similarities (we're both PvE), but I think we're far more tabletop-inspired than anything else (our game was built around the tabletop campaign I DMed in the late 90s and then refined over the years, and has a series of novels behind it; Book One is called Echoes of the Past and launches December 1st), though our go-to MMORPG is typically EverQuest when we look at how we want "the experience" to feel. 

    From our FAQ page: "Think early EverQuest. You can head out, harvest a few things, craft a bit, kill a few mobs close to town within the safety of the guards if you need to run, but if you want to hit up Orc Hill you’ll need 3-4 other players, and if you want to head into Crushbone and handle the Throne Room, you’ll need a full group. You need a well-balanced team of adventurers to handle whatever you might come across in the wild. You need gear. You need supplies. Bandages. Potions. Scrolls. A pack mule. Rope. Never leave home without a good length of rope."

    I always hesitate when people get hyped about us, though; it's best not to get your hopes up about us being the "savior" of anything. We're just doing our own little thing in our own little corner of the MMORPG space, and we're very much "figuring it out" as we go, since none of us had any previous development experience.

    And remember; MMORPGs take an average of 6 - 8 years of development. Some, like ESO, can take 8 - 10. We're 3.5 years into the programming side of things. I wouldn't ballpark us anywhere sooner than 2021, and more than likely somewhere between there and 2023. 

    We're currently in talks with investors for another round of funding to expand our team with 7 - 10 full-time employees on top of the 14 folks we have currently working on the project. Should have some exciting news for folks in early/mid 2019 on that front.

    We've also been approached by a few publishers, but unfortunately everyone has wanted us to go free-to-play with a cash shop, and we're staunch supporters of the pay-to-play (monthly sub) option. 

    Our social media has all the latest news. We've got Release #11 coming up December 8th - 14th, so if anyone wants to check things out they can follow along at YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos. 

    We just did a video on our first balance pass the other day, and once we get past the holiday weekend here, I'll have a slew of new videos coming out next week covering all of the changes coming up in this build (the wound system, campfires and regen, the new UI, new vegetation system and light-culling optimization; we've seen 20+ FPS increases across the board), so stay tuned :) 

    In the meantime, thanks for the plug @delete5230 and hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving. 



    *edited for a typo*
    LokeroHystericViper482Vesavius
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    Still waiting for better testing oppurtunity , but most definitley is an intriguing project .. That i follow closely ..

     
    Renfail
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Scorchien said:
    Still waiting for better testing oppurtunity , but most definitley is an intriguing project .. That i follow closely ..

     
    We hear that a lot :) Thanks for following along!

    We'll actually be closing down our pre-order store in early/mid 2019. Probably after Release 12, which is scheduled for March and when we bring questing into the game. 

    Once that happens, we'll be transitioning to alpha, and everyone will be under NDA for the duration. The pre-order tiers will be wiped, and we won't open the store back up until we hit beta, at which point it will be a traditional "base edition, deluxe edition, collector's edition" series of packages, probably three months prior to launch. 

    Still a long way to go :) 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    Renfail said:
    Scorchien said:
    Still waiting for better testing oppurtunity , but most definitley is an intriguing project .. That i follow closely ..

     
    We hear that a lot :) Thanks for following along!

    We'll actually be closing down our pre-order store in early/mid 2019. Probably after Release 12, which is scheduled for March and when we bring questing into the game. 

    Once that happens, we'll be transitioning to alpha, and everyone will be under NDA for the duration. The pre-order tiers will be wiped, and we won't open the store back up until we hit beta, at which point it will be a traditional "base edition, deluxe edition, collector's edition" series of packages, probably three months prior to launch. 

    Still a long way to go :) 
    ill keep that in mind .. ...
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,899
    edited November 2018
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    Asch126OG_Zorvan

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    i just follow the Discord ..........https://discord.gg/

  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 372
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    I think they have been doing a great job at communicating. It is hard though, like he said ,to hype up a game that is 3-5 years away might not be the best idea at the moment. 

    @Renfail I don't know why you guys bother with posting anything on Massively, that site is run by a bunch of idiots with most of their readers being one of a hive mind. I haven't see you guys get a lot of love over there over the years. Most of the posters there just like low effort, boring themepark MMOs where socializing and depth on not a priority.

    Plus, that site has a horrible reputation for censorship and is losing a lot of their readership. 

    PS. Love MMORPG. at least real MMO gamers are part of this community. 
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    TECHNICALLY the Newsletter is the 100% best place, as I blast out 2-3 times a week, and sometimes more :) 
    Kyleran
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    I think they have been doing a great job at communicating. It is hard though, like he said ,to hype up a game that is 3-5 years away might not be the best idea at the moment. 

    @Renfail I don't know why you guys bother with posting anything on Massively, that site is run by a bunch of idiots with most of their readers being one of a hive mind. I haven't see you guys get a lot of love over there over the years. Most of the posters there just like low effort, boring themepark MMOs where socializing and depth on not a priority.

    Plus, that site has a horrible reputation for censorship and is losing a lot of their readership. 

    PS. Love MMORPG. at least real MMO gamers are part of this community. 
    To be fair, WE don't post anything at Massively. They, like MMOGames, MMORPG.com, etc., choose which bits and pieces they want to pick up on. 

    All I can do is answer comments and reply to folks who have questions, much like here. 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 372
    Renfail said:
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    I think they have been doing a great job at communicating. It is hard though, like he said ,to hype up a game that is 3-5 years away might not be the best idea at the moment. 

    @Renfail I don't know why you guys bother with posting anything on Massively, that site is run by a bunch of idiots with most of their readers being one of a hive mind. I haven't see you guys get a lot of love over there over the years. Most of the posters there just like low effort, boring themepark MMOs where socializing and depth on not a priority.

    Plus, that site has a horrible reputation for censorship and is losing a lot of their readership. 

    PS. Love MMORPG. at least real MMO gamers are part of this community. 
    To be fair, WE don't post anything at Massively. They, like MMOGames, MMORPG.com, etc., choose which bits and pieces they want to pick up on. 

    All I can do is answer comments and reply to folks who have questions, much like here. 
    Sorry, I meant reply to comments there. I feel like over the years, they have not been kind to you guys at all. Most of their readership too, like I said above, could care less about a project like yours. It just makes me sad, that a blog about MMOs has such closed minded views about MMOs. 
    I feel like the only acceptable MMO is just another WoW clone over there. 

    Like that entire LFG tool fiasco. I think I remember correctly, you guys were merely throwing around ideas about not having an automated grouping tool for your game and it was like you committed some kind of sin. I liked the idea of having inns as a place to form groups, I thought it was a neat idea. Again, I'm not sure this was your game lol. 

    Anyway, keep up the good work! The genre needs some new blood in the market. I think people have really under estimated MMOs too, I don't think it is the zombie wasteland that everyone portrays. 

    le


  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Renfail said:
    Kyleran said:
    This is an interesting project to follow,  with only one serious flaw in my book.

    "Our social media has all the latest news. YouTube/Facebook/Twitch/Twitter where we'll be publishing photos and videos." 

    I'm too old to follow games on social media. YouTube is for watching music and funny cat videos, Facebook to connect with a select few family and old friends.

    Twitter is for idiots to share their opinions which I care nothing for and Twitch is for ....watching people play games, why the f=@k would I ever do that, so I don't have accounts for either of the latter.

    It's like SOLs entire team is made up of milineals with no clue on how to communicate with anyone older.   They won't stay off my damn lawn either.  ;)

    Fortunately Renfail keeps us up to date here and on MassivelyOP so it doesn't totally fall of my radar. Oh yeah, they have a website with some good Monday morning posts.

    Now, if only I live long enough to see it launch, my odds in the dead pool get worse every year.   :#

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


    I think they have been doing a great job at communicating. It is hard though, like he said ,to hype up a game that is 3-5 years away might not be the best idea at the moment. 

    @Renfail I don't know why you guys bother with posting anything on Massively, that site is run by a bunch of idiots with most of their readers being one of a hive mind. I haven't see you guys get a lot of love over there over the years. Most of the posters there just like low effort, boring themepark MMOs where socializing and depth on not a priority.

    Plus, that site has a horrible reputation for censorship and is losing a lot of their readership. 

    PS. Love MMORPG. at least real MMO gamers are part of this community. 
    To be fair, WE don't post anything at Massively. They, like MMOGames, MMORPG.com, etc., choose which bits and pieces they want to pick up on. 

    All I can do is answer comments and reply to folks who have questions, much like here. 
    Sorry, I meant reply to comments there. I feel like over the years, they have not been kind to you guys at all. Most of their readership too, like I said above, could care less about a project like yours. It just makes me sad, that a blog about MMOs has such closed minded views about MMOs. 
    I feel like the only acceptable MMO is just another WoW clone over there. 

    Like that entire LFG tool fiasco. I think I remember correctly, you guys were merely throwing around ideas about not having an automated grouping tool for your game and it was like you committed some kind of sin. I liked the idea of having inns as a place to form groups, I thought it was a neat idea. Again, I'm not sure this was your game lol. 

    Anyway, keep up the good work! The genre needs some new blood in the market. I think people have really under estimated MMOs too, I don't think it is the zombie wasteland that everyone portrays. 

    le


    You aren't wrong :) 

    The vast majority of their staff + audience prefer free-to-play, solo MMOs. 

    Even despite that, we've earned a slew of followers who can see past that, so it's still a valid community, even though the majority (I'd say 80% lol) of their community aren't really on board with what we are building. 

    Indeed, the LFG thread was one that was fairly heated because we will not have a matchmaking system in the game. Instead, we will have a LFG/LFM panel, similar to EQ2, where you can post your build (tank/dps/healer/utility/cc) and then other players can look to see who is available, or you can see what groups are looking for more, and then reach out, communicate, and negotiate the terms of your group. 

    From there we have limited fast travel means to get you to your group; one-way summon portals (similar to WoW summoning portals; multiple people have to be at the portal to summon you, and you must first have already visited the location to receive a summons). 

    Another controversial thread was our decision not to have minimaps; we aren't a sci-fi game. We are a fantasy world. You don't have GPS in a low-tech fantasy environment. It would totally make sense if we had technology to show us our location and the like, but we aren't in a sci-fi world. As such, we have sense heading as a skill, and players will need to rely on learning the zones/landmarks/etc. 

    Will folks still make maps? Sure. They did for EQ1 also (EQAtlas back in the day). Some people will use them. Others won't. 

    In any case, we get it; a lot of our design decisions are old school and won't be popular with the modern audience. We're fine with that. We aren't trying to build the next WoW. 

    borghive49
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    I like video games.... Witcher 3, Fallout 4, XCOM's, Shadows of Mordor, Tomb Raider's.  But their video games. 

    For me a real mmorpg is something else.  It's as different as watching TV, watching Youtubes or listening to a good CD.  

    Understand a REAL mmoprg is to be played for years, it's not exciting all the time, you may not have that well put together group every time and fail terribly. They'll be times where your mindlessly chopping at trees because you plan on being the best crafter in the game.  Payoffs could take months....The good news ?... You have plenty of time.  

    I can't remember a single time I had a memorable experience from a video game.  Fun yes, memorable no.  I could write a book of good times I had with a true mmorpg.

    You can win a video game, most don't know how to win an mmorpg.
    I do.... a large friends list :) 

    Come January I'll be digging deep into Saga of Lucimia.   
    Renfailborghive49Hawkaya399
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    edited November 2018
    I like video games.... Witcher 3, Fallout 4, XCOM's, Shadows of Mordor, Tomb Raider's.  But their video games. 

    For me a real mmorpg is something else.  It's as different as watching TV, watching Youtubes or listening to a good CD.  

    Understand a REAL mmoprg is to be played for years, it's not exciting all the time, you may not have that well put together group every time and fail terribly. They'll be times where your mindlessly chopping at trees because you plan on being the best crafter in the game.  Payoffs could take months....The good news ?... You have plenty of time.  

    I can't remember a single time I had a memorable experience from a video game.  Fun yes, memorable no.  I could write a book of good times I had with a true mmorpg.

    You can win a video game, most don't know how to win an mmorpg.
    I do.... a large friends list :) 

    Come January I'll be digging deep into Saga of Lucimia.   
    Games are getting better every year. The few weeks I played Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption II were pretty damn fun....but yes, they typically only last weeks or a month or two at most, whereas an MMORPG can last years. 

    We're still playing EQ1 to this day. Still playing LOTRO. Still playing WoW. Not full-time, but we typically will jump in for 3 - 6 months every year into one of those (also FFXIV, ESO). 

    For example, we are headed into LOTRO Legendary on the Anor server next Tuesday, and will be playing there until WoW Classic launches. Last year we did EQ2 and ESO. Year before that FFXIV and EQ1 progression servers. Year before that, Project 1999. Somewhere in there I know I've personally dabbled in SW:TOR for 4-6 months, just don't remember when or where lol. And I typically circle back around to SWTOR every couple of years when they've got enough expansion content out to keep me occupied for at least 4-6 months. 

    It's hard to get that in single player games. That goes back to the "a single player will only log around 40 hours per game on average, while a player with friends will log upwards of 2000 hours into the same game". 

    If it's group-based, it's got longevity. 

    See you in the new year =P
    delete5230
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,483
    To me, what's more interesting about this project isn't really the project itself but the mindset behind it. If they can fully adhere to the pseudo "my way or the highway" philosophy, it does have a quite of bit of interest (to me at least) since it would be nice to play a game without nerfed progression and 'catch-up.' I think people in this generation didn't know that it was up to the community to help players catch-up in terms of content and not the developers.
    delete5230Renfail
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,974
    Betteridge's Law of Headlines says no.

    On multiple grounds, actually:  it's not hidden, and it's not a gem.  Maybe the game will be good someday or maybe not, but I'm generally against offering excessively effusive praise for pre-alpha games based mostly on what you hope that the game will someday be.
    OG_Zorvan
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    Quizzical said:
    Betteridge's Law of Headlines says no.

    On multiple grounds, actually:  it's not hidden, and it's not a gem.  Maybe the game will be good someday or maybe not, but I'm generally against offering excessively effusive praise for pre-alpha games based mostly on what you hope that the game will someday be.
    You have a point !  
    But it would be nice to give options too?

    I'm unsure about percentage done but I don't care it will be my new hobby... It's better than sitting here doin nothing... Time to take some action instead of talking about it B)    

    I'm sick of talking. 
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Albatroes said:
    To me, what's more interesting about this project isn't really the project itself but the mindset behind it. If they can fully adhere to the pseudo "my way or the highway" philosophy, it does have a quite of bit of interest (to me at least) since it would be nice to play a game without nerfed progression and 'catch-up.' I think people in this generation didn't know that it was up to the community to help players catch-up in terms of content and not the developers.
    We've made it since 2014 sticking to our guns and it seems to be working. We don't see any reason to change. 

    Community-based gaming is the best type of gaming :) Fully agree that many of the modern generation don't know what it was like when the community was responsible for helping each other out, rather than automated systems (which cheapen the experience and have led us to this revival of old-school games and progression/legendary/classic servers). 

    That's another one of the reasons we have been so firm on our PvE-ONLY stance. 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,513
    Renfail said:
    Albatroes said:
    To me, what's more interesting about this project isn't really the project itself but the mindset behind it. If they can fully adhere to the pseudo "my way or the highway" philosophy, it does have a quite of bit of interest (to me at least) since it would be nice to play a game without nerfed progression and 'catch-up.' I think people in this generation didn't know that it was up to the community to help players catch-up in terms of content and not the developers.
    We've made it since 2014 sticking to our guns and it seems to be working. We don't see any reason to change. 

    Community-based gaming is the best type of gaming :) Fully agree that many of the modern generation don't know what it was like when the community was responsible for helping each other out, rather than automated systems (which cheapen the experience and have led us to this revival of old-school games and progression/legendary/classic servers). 

    That's another one of the reasons we have been so firm on our PvE-ONLY stance. 
    To be fair, even the PvP community was more helpful and social back then.

    It would be unfathomable today to fight with someone and expect anything but toxicity for most people.  But, back in those days, you often made friends with the people you just tried to kill/got killed by.

    It was pretty great to see respect for your rivals and exchange jests and combat tips after the fight ended.  It's one of the reasons I hated the lack of cross-faction communication in games like WoW, etc.(I mean I understand it, but I think it makes your opponent just a faceless monster, which kind of defeats the point of PvP in many ways).

    Pretty irrelevant for SoL, obviously, but just thought I'd point out that a respectful and helpful community wasn't limited to PVE back then.
    Renfail
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,628
    @Renfail

    That's awesome you guys had regular jobs and pitched in to make a nice dream game. Kudos to you. i'll definitely try it out when it is available for early access or something. Keep up the good work. 

    @Kyleran

    Stop being a pussy. Live forever. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,337
    edited November 2018
    @Renfail

    That's awesome you guys had regular jobs and pitched in to make a nice dream game. Kudos to you. i'll definitely try it out when it is available for early access or something. Keep up the good work. 

    @Kyleran

    Stop being a pussy. Live forever. 
    Still have day jobs, actually. I'm the only one on the team who does not; I took a personal loan out this year to cover our my cost of living to manage the contractors + go full-time on the project after being part-time since 2014.

    My wife and I shut down our travel brand after our contract with Failte Ireland last year (October - December, 2017). This is the first year since 2012 we haven't accepted any speaking engagements or new projects, and she actually went out and got a "real" job for the first time since 2012 while I focus on this. 

    I still have a small contract with a friend helping her build her travel magazine, but it's less than 10 hours a week of work; I spend, on average, 80 hours a week on Stormhaven Studios and Saga of Lucimia. 

    Also, we've been in early access since September of 2015 :) We took the Shroud of the Avatar approach and have had people logging in with us since our very first pre-alpha testing session. 

    I always love comparing because it gives us such a clear window of progression. Here's the video from a couple of days ago (80+ FPS, stable networking framework since 2016, a few optimization runs, new UI, balance pass, though still shit animations and a lot of other pre-alpha fun)



    And then compare it against our first official login video from September of 2015 (when we had rubber-banding, graphical lag, hitching, zero optimization, and MAYBE 15-20 FPS:  



    Still a long way to go, but it's fun to watch the progress. Sometimes it feels like we're just treading water when we are working on iterations and trial/erroring things, but then I can watch things like this and go /fistpump. 

    Stay tuned; I'll have a few new videos coming out next week, plus we have our Friends & Family test session on the night of the 28th, and I always record footage of that and put it together for the latest What's New In Release #(insert latest build number here) blog post. 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 443
    edited January 10
    Great thread. I'm watching Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia. I hope htey both succeed, but I can't help wondering if one will flounder. It's so hard for MMO's to do well. I've programmed myself and know hard it actually is. And tha'ts just the coding, it's not the audio or maps or textures or models or business or so on. Ya we have Unity now and social media and so forth, but it's still a major obstacle, and more is expected. It does look to me like things are saturated. The key isn't to broaden the audience anymore, it's to find a niche and get attention. Make games for types of players. Players are also entrenched in games they've long played, so how do you pull them away? These things are becoming a science. The other tricky thing seems to me how to keep development costs low, since costs are so high and players don't want to pay much. A good example of a budgetary success is BDO. It should be expected other companies will follow their example--whatever it may be. I think they cut the costs down to $1,000,000. It's probably more than that, truth  be told, but that's an insane number for an MMORPG. It's true there're whales, but when you zoom out, the reality is we get far more for our buck now, esp with the f2p trend. Developers are increasingly struggling to pay these costs. Growing numbers of players are playing old games, cracked or emulated games, free or open source games. And I haven't even brought up the topic of AI creating games for us to play.

    I don't know which one to love more. Maybe I can love both.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,707
    edited January 10
    This is barely even in alpha and already looks more polished than Camelot Unchained does.
    delete5230
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    Great thread. I'm watching Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia. I hope htey both succeed, but I can't help wondering if one will flounder. It's so hard for MMO's to do well. I've programmed myself and know hard it actually is. And tha'ts just the coding, it's not the audio or maps or textures or models or business or so on. Ya we have Unity now and social media and so forth, but it's still a major obstacle, and more is expected. It does look to me like things are saturated. The key isn't to broaden the audience anymore, it's to find a niche and get attention. Make games for types of players. Players are also entrenched in games they've long played, so how do you pull them away? These things are becoming a science. The other tricky thing seems to me how to keep development costs low, since costs are so high and players don't want to pay much. A good example of a budgetary success is BDO. It should be expected other companies will follow their example--whatever it may be. I think they cut the costs down to $1,000,000. It's probably more than that, truth  be told, but that's an insane number for an MMORPG. It's true there're whales, but when you zoom out, the reality is we get far more for our buck now, esp with the f2p trend. Developers are increasingly struggling to pay these costs. Growing numbers of players are playing old games, cracked or emulated games, free or open source games. And I haven't even brought up the topic of AI creating games for us to play.

    I don't know which one to love more. Maybe I can love both.
    It's nice to know will have one or the other to fall back on if one tanks.

    Both have not gone into full advertising mode yet.  Pantheon seems to have the far edge with word-of-mouth compared to Saga of Lucimia,

    I want both. I don't put one above the other as far as wants and likes.

    HOWEVER.... I have a feeling (just a feeling) Saga of Lucimia has the edge simply because their more reasonable with choice of graphics and coding.

    Some day !
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 443
    edited January 11
    Btw, I was incorrect about BDO's budget being 1 million. That's often reported as the cost of the development with their inhouse engine, but it's far too low to be reasonable by conventional wisdom. I managed to track down another figure here, from the "chairperson of Pearl Absyss":
    In fact, the development cost for BDO wasn’t that high. We had as many skilled personnel as we could get, and I personally put much dedication into it. It was around 11 million dollars. We modified the whole process in order to save some costs. The process was completely different from that of R2 or C9. We discussed many times internally, and we had to make an instant decision from time to time.

    US dollars. That translates to somethuing like 13 billion in local Korean currency. I don't know why two different figures are given. It could be hte original $1 million figure (1.2b KR) only includes hte cost of the engine.

    And I sort of agree, maybe. There's something "younger" and more ignorant about Saga of Lucimia, and something in the back of my mind says to me they have more passion. Sometimes experience can backfire, but who knows. Young inexperienced game developers are notorious for being overambitious. It seems in most trade hte vast numbers of people are mediocre or fail to ever be well known. On the other hand, it does seem to me some of hte biggest games (and movies) in history came from people who lacked experience and struggled to produce them, and frequently during production it seemed all hope was lost. One example? Jaws. That was one of the movies which catapulted Spielberg into fame. I might even give Star Wars as an example. They NEVER expected the amazing reception it received, and fought tooth and nail. In those days, George Lucas didn't have the experience he had later. Something they did have was youth and enthusiasm, something powerful and easy to underestimate.

    What I do know is this. For a while now I've promised myself to be there at Pantheon's launch. I didn't work for a long time, so thought it might not happen. But guess what? Last year I started working and I'm still working. I have a new computer. I will be ready, barring a catastrophe or some major event in my life :)
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    ??

    Hiden (Jap., ‘field of compassion’). Buddhist actions of supporting the poor or needy. Since these produce merit, they are compared to a field which brings forth a great harvest.

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/hiden

    image
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