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You Asked, Echtra Listened: Torchlight Frontiers & Its Free-to-Play Philosophy - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited November 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageYou Asked, Echtra Listened: Torchlight Frontiers & Its Free-to-Play Philosophy - MMORPG.com

The Torchlight Frontiers site has been updated with a lengthy post from Echtra's Max Schaefer to lay out the company's philosophy about the free to play experience and how it relates to the forthcoming game. Most notably, Schaefer writes that the "community is the most important thing to us, and your happiness is critical to our success". He adds, however, that an "awesome world requires revenue", but that they are confident in the choices they are making to achieve both goals.

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Pretty much as I expected and not unreasonable.
    ScorchienelveoneDarkpigeonThuplijarsku85necrolockTacticalZombeh


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Yea that does not look to invasive , so if they stick to those parameters , we should be in for a good time .. I still hoping they include The Outlander Class tho ..:)
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,836
    I just want more permanence and reason to keep playing outside of the typical hardcore and seasonal nonsense. ARPGs need to figure out a way to make keeping a character in the long term meaningful.
    Thuplijarsku85AlomarTokkenSorill
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 426
    I would say the ideas proposed are good and fair and while there are no specifics I tend to trust those developers.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,955
    Philosophy? It is a business plan not Nietzsche. :)
  • sacredcow4sacredcow4 Member UncommonPosts: 249

    Aeander said:

    I just want more permanence and reason to keep playing outside of the typical hardcore and seasonal nonsense. ARPGs need to figure out a way to make keeping a character in the long term meaningful.



    What you are asking for is an mmo. ARPGs were never designed for character permanence. They were designed to be a fun dungeon crawl from new adventurer to hero. That journey is the fun part, but there aren't many places to go after that journey is complete. It's like asking for a game of texas hold'em to have long term meaning. Once you win and all the chips are yours the game is over. You start a new one... kind of like seasons.
    SovrathThupliKyleran
     I've been here a while...
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    PWE is just to powerful and they will cave to them.
    SBFord
  • uriel_mafessuriel_mafess Member UncommonPosts: 148
    At least the game is free. It would have been even worse to sell the game for $ and still have this cash shop (with hidden p2w).
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,836
    sacredcow4 said:

    Aeander said:

    I just want more permanence and reason to keep playing outside of the typical hardcore and seasonal nonsense. ARPGs need to figure out a way to make keeping a character in the long term meaningful.



    What you are asking for is an mmo. ARPGs were never designed for character permanence. They were designed to be a fun dungeon crawl from new adventurer to hero. That journey is the fun part, but there aren't many places to go after that journey is complete. It's like asking for a game of texas hold'em to have long term meaning. Once you win and all the chips are yours the game is over. You start a new one... kind of like seasons.
    Fuck it then. What I'm asking for is for one of the MMO/ARPG hybrids to be good.
    ThupliAlomar
  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,512
    normal gear and most Relic Weapons is only earned through adventuring, but the team may sell "some special items, like specific Relic Weapons, though these will also be "a reasonable way to attain or craft them through normal gameplay as well"

    To me this sounds a bit dangerous. Relic = p2w
    JeffSpicoliXingbairongSorillmikeb0817uriel_mafess

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited November 2018
    Mensur said:
    normal gear and most Relic Weapons is only earned through adventuring, but the team may sell "some special items, like specific Relic Weapons, though these will also be "a reasonable way to attain or craft them through normal gameplay as well"

    To me this sounds a bit dangerous. Relic = p2w
    Having spoken to these folks on and off through the years, I think they truly have a heart for the player and the community. If they say that ALL Relic Weapons will have a reasonable way to be crafted in the game, then I believe them. 

    Any game company would have to be "head in the sand stupid" to go for blatantly P2W in this day and age. I'm going to trust that they understand that and will opt for the higher road.
    ThupliMrMelGibsonIlayaMensurelveone


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Devs interpretations of reasonable is usually my definition of grindy as hell. I hope to be proven wrong but i kinda doubt it.

    They could do worse than copy Path of Exiles shop. Its one of the best F2P shops i've had to deal with.
    XingbairongMensurH0urg1ass
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    I'm not thrilled hearing this. Iv come to realize i hate F2P in most but not all games. Cosmetics to me are just as important as the OP items with kick ass stats. Its a 50/50 split when it comes to gear ,Its not good enough just being powerful i want to look the part as well and paying for the cosmetics cheapens the experience. Now i know they listed all these can be obtained in game which is great to hear but me, personally, I'd rather just pay a flat fee for the game and thats that. None of this cash shop crap

    I have to be honest I'm a little disappointed.
    moshraElvocMensurKyleran[Deleted User]jdnewell

    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • ElvocElvoc Member RarePosts: 546
    I for one am actually sad its going to be FTP because that model allows players to join the game and just create nothing but hate and discontent in the game and especially in the chat. If you make people pay for a game to play it at least it gets rid of all the haters that have nothing better to do then complain about everything and blow up chat, will probably help the Gold farmers take over chat also..

    Torchlight has always been one of my favorites but still sad its going to be FTP, just to hard of a market to make the masses happy.
    JeffSpicoliHarikenAlomarMensur[Deleted User]
  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    "We reject "pay-to-win". For one thing, there is no specific "winning" in Torchlight Frontiers. We want you to be who and what you want to be in our world."

    What does this mean exactly?
    Are they saying their game can't be classified as p2w because there is no actual ending to the game like an mmo, or are they saying they don't want the game to be p2w?

    Also, if relic weapons attainability in game is going to be reasonable, then who in their right mind would pay for them?
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Elvoc said:
    I for one am actually sad its going to be FTP because that model allows players to join the game and just create nothing but hate and discontent in the game and especially in the chat. If you make people pay for a game to play it at least it gets rid of all the haters that have nothing better to do then complain about everything and blow up chat, will probably help the Gold farmers take over chat also..

    Torchlight has always been one of my favorites but still sad its going to be FTP, just to hard of a market to make the masses happy.
    Yeah the chat will be really filled with hate speech and every other kinds of crap. I hope we get an option to turn off chat channels.
  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927
    With the word "reasonable" I lost any interest in this game... The fact that they use such conservative word instead of clear words like easy, hard etc... just goes to show that they are looking into adding p2w aspects. Also even if it's easy to obtain said relic weapons the fact that you can buy them is p2w. If people still can't understand that if 1 person can buy something that another would have to spend let's say 10 hours to get it, is p2w then I don't know what to say.
    I buy the relic, the guy spends 10 hours farming and during these 10 hours I'm doing something even more useful and doing it easy cause I have a relic weapon that normally should require effort to get... If that isn't p2w then there is no p2w in any game.
    And I know someone will say "but he will also get it and then you will be on equal footing". Well sadly that's not true cause by then I would've done better content. I'll always be ahead of anyone that doesn't spend money and that's just stupid. I don't see anything interesting in that. That's why I also hate games like Destiny 2 where there is DLC and someone might have items that others don't because they have the DLC and the others don't. That's stupid. I'd rather pay a sub fee and know that everyone is equal or not bother at all.
  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    Xingbairong said:
    With the word "reasonable" I lost any interest in this game... The fact that they use such conservative word instead of clear words like easy, hard etc... just goes to show that they are looking into adding p2w aspects. Also even if it's easy to obtain said relic weapons the fact that you can buy them is p2w. If people still can't understand that if 1 person can buy something that another would have to spend let's say 10 hours to get it, is p2w then I don't know what to say.
    I buy the relic, the guy spends 10 hours farming and during these 10 hours I'm doing something even more useful and doing it easy cause I have a relic weapon that normally should require effort to get... If that isn't p2w then there is no p2w in any game.
    And I know someone will say "but he will also get it and then you will be on equal footing". Well sadly that's not true cause by then I would've done better content. I'll always be ahead of anyone that doesn't spend money and that's just stupid. I don't see anything interesting in that. That's why I also hate games like Destiny 2 where there is DLC and someone might have items that others don't because they have the DLC and the others don't. That's stupid. I'd rather pay a sub fee and know that everyone is equal or not bother at all.
    Sadly, us pro sub people are a dying breed, my friend.
    IselinTacticalZombeh
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Sounds reasonable enough but I just hate it when developers start playing the semantics game with things like "For one thing, there is no specific "winning""

    That's a weak argument I expect from fans of games, not developers.

    moshraKyleran
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Of course is sounds reasonable. Just a nice way to let us down easy I guess. At least they have some manners.
    Tokken
     
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    edited November 2018
    * normal gear and most Relic Weapons is only earned through adventuring, but the team may sell "some special items, like specific Relic Weapons, though these will also be "a reasonable way to attain or craft them through normal gameplay as well"

    * "We reject "pay-to-win". For one thing, there is no specific "winning" in Torchlight Frontiers. We want you to be who and what you want to be in our world."

    We'll see I guess....Keep in mind guys, Trion used to be good once.....once....
  • CitizenX007CitizenX007 Member UncommonPosts: 75
    I wish I had a dollar for every time a MMO developer/publisher said that they're "in it for the players"...what a joke!! They're in it for the cash and they only care about the player's experience insofar as it keeps them happily buying from the CS!
    Tokken
  • Cyber_wastelandCyber_wasteland Member UncommonPosts: 192
    "normal gear and most Relic Weapons is only earned through adventuring, but the team may sell "some special items, like specific Relic Weapons, though these will also be "a reasonable way to attain or craft them through normal gameplay as well"


    Eh, depending on what and how it will be that is a small foot in the door to opening up much more unfair cash shop practices, but we will see how it goes. Looking forward to this coming out and can't wait to play it.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Haha,is there a political election going on here.Nice of them to say all the right things.

    If they are truly listening then here it is and why NO amount of monetizing tweaks will get me to play right now.

    The game is TOO shallow and i do not like SPAMMY mindless combat what so ever,no way no how.
    So if your bent on making a VERY cheap ARPG,then guess what,the game is only as good as F2p and as such should never cost anyone more than a few bucks a month.So if you can keep their interest for 1 year "not asking much"at 3 bbucks per that is 36 bucks a year.TYhis guess will NOT be worth anymore than 36 bucks a year and i can repeat a statement i made in soem other thread.

    I bought the ENTIRE FFXI game on Steam about 4 years ago for 15 bucks that included a free month.This Torchlight Will NEVER come remotely close to the massive amount of content and systems,so at a few bucks a month ,imo Torchlight for me is already too costly.

    So here it is,you want a busy game because busy attracts other players,once it looks dead it is Wildstar and >>>DEAD.So a game like Arpg's should be a B2p ,maybe you can bait in fanbois of the genre to pay 35-50 bucks.Make 200k sales that is 7-15 million,no way could this game expect to make anymore than that.
    So don't bbe greedy,take what the game is worth,it'll come off a LOT better.


    TacticalZombeh

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Aeander said:
    I just want more permanence and reason to keep playing outside of the typical hardcore and seasonal nonsense. ARPGs need to figure out a way to make keeping a character in the long term meaningful.
    Yep same here,i want a GAME...go figure eh?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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