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Last known good in the mmorpg industry

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  • Cybersig211Cybersig211 Member UncommonPosts: 128
    edited November 2018
    There were lots of good games, the market got flooded and people realized they never really liked RPG games but mmorpgs were really the only genre that combined social and gameplay first and people didn't have an option for massive social interaction centric gameplay.

    For me the high water mark was Warhammer Online, i feel that was peak mmorpg golden era.  It wasn't bad but it failed because it wasn't all that special vs every other game.  Games that came after it that were good and are still going are GW2/ESO/FFXiV

    GW2 capitalized on the fact many hated standard RPG centric mmorpgs and just wanted to mindlessly kill stuff quickly hit endgame and enjoy shallow pvp, none of that is a negative.

    FFXIV focused on raids

    ESO had a singleplayer esque storyline and sieges

    Now its utterly pointless to have a big budget western mmorpg.  PVPers would rather play a MOBA and that makes 100% sense why they would.  RPG fans have single player games that just do it better.  There are L4D style co-ops and ARPG games to fill the gaps.  All do their focus far better than any do it all mmorpg could ever do.

    Sadly, for as much hate as it got, i wish i had just started, loved, and stuck with WOW, Went through too many mmorpgs that never made it, we all need breaks from games and it sucks getting the urge and going back to see a game dead, or on its 3rd publisher since i last played, or unable to even download and play due to it being shut down.

    Only good ones left are the ones that were late stage development once the MMORPG golden era peaked, GW2/ESO/FFXIV.  No one with a brain would create a new mmropg these days...too expensive not enough interested.

    I think WAR was the last great game of the golden era, and to see how quickly it declined, and how EA kept it in necro-mode so long was so sad.

    At the peak there were just too many competing games, people didn't stick around, and developers stuck hard to their plans regardless of reality in front of them.  Everyone was determined to have their WOW-Killer or die trying and they all died.

    Now its budget indy games that will probably be in development until they die, or private server sandbox survivals in their place, able to sustain on low budgets and low playerbase.

    I hope one day someone will put a big budget modern mmorpg that isn't trying to be everquest/wow on the market....though its still "too soon" the mmorpg burn out still exists.  No one wants to spend months helping lazy farmers clearing boars from their field eternally, deal with moody guild leaders trying to run over complicated raids, or shallow battleground pvp...and if they do, they play wow or the 3 surviving late stage mmorpgs and would most likely go back due to communities with in a few months.

    Just my over worded rant and 2 cents.
    zzax
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,942
    edited November 2018
    It's like everyone hates everything when they respond to topics. 
    Yet, when confronted all is good. 

    I'm often puzzled :o
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,064
    If instead of using your "I'm always right" engine you'd use what remains of your brains, you'd be way less puzzled.
    CryomatrixPhaserlightTuor7
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,942
    If instead of using your "I'm always right" engine you'd use what remains of your brains, you'd be way less puzzled.
    45 minuets to think of that... That's the best you can do when I say I'm puzzled, I left myself wide open and that the best thing you can come up with?
  • ExistentialistExistentialist Member UncommonPosts: 57
    2004 was the high water mark in my view

    I've loved UO, Lineage2, WoW (when in a raiding guild) but the one that has been my home since 2009 is Darkfall. Still playing it (in Darkfall New Dawn).

    Just wish someone would invent a way for Australians to get 50 ping on European servers :)
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,872
    The last decent mmorpg I played was Gran Skrea Online

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,064
    The last decent mmorpg I played was Gran Skrea Online
    Just looked it up on Steam, doesn't look too bad... why did you stop playing it ?
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,872
    The last decent mmorpg I played was Gran Skrea Online
    Just looked it up on Steam, doesn't look too bad... why did you stop playing it ?
    It's uneven system wise. It is not too far along in development and it shows. If they can stay funded and continue the work it could be a pretty good mmorpg.
    The pvp has changed a couple of times. I like the system in place now but the world is not very large at the moment and pvp just seems pointless. PvE is ok but needs fleshed out more.
      It does have a good feel to it though. Almost like an old Runescape feel? 

    I would say hold off for 6 months to a year to see where they go with it. 
    ScorchienPhryJean-Luc_PicardPhaserlight

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,905
    The last decent mmorpg I played was Gran Skrea Online
    Just looked it up on Steam, doesn't look too bad... why did you stop playing it ?
    It's uneven system wise. It is not too far along in development and it shows. If they can stay funded and continue the work it could be a pretty good mmorpg.
    The pvp has changed a couple of times. I like the system in place now but the world is not very large at the moment and pvp just seems pointless. PvE is ok but needs fleshed out more.
      It does have a good feel to it though. Almost like an old Runescape feel? 

    I would say hold off for 6 months to a year to see where they go with it. 
     yea been playing this off and on for 3 months checking there progress , it could end being a nice little game , But they do need to make up there minds on PvP direction , as Blue said they keep changing , and do not seem to have goal yet ..

      They have there feelers out in to many directions at this point imo and need to focus more on trying to get a couple of there systems further along ..

      But ill keep checking it out every couple weeks to see there progress.
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Last good PVE MMO was FFXIV for me and PvP I would go with EVE.
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,800
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,601
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    Sure we can give that a consideration,i am sure most do.It is not as simple as either or though.

    IF by adequate do you mean ,designed how i want the game to play or complete opposite?

    There is a megaton that goes into each part fo the game's design,it is not as simple as adequate or amazing.

    Then if we already have something that is really good to play,WHY would we choose a LESSER/adequate product and give them money to give me a subpar game?This analogy is like saying,trade me a Lamborghini for a Honda Civic,the Civic is still adequate but why would I ?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,601
    edited November 2018
    If you mean there is nothing you really like...period,then maybe you have to choose something adequate or don't play at all,then yeah there is a point to be made then.

    it is still not that simple...

    A game might offer 90% of what i want but let's say it is open pvp all maps,that one poor design is enough to keep me away forever.Linear questing,i don't like that one bit,it is a mindless waste of time to me.If the quests at least had some part of the LORE and immersion and perhaps related to your class,then yeah "adequate" or acceptable comes to mind. NO they are usually designed in a LAZY slap the game together manner,to which i am not paying you money to sell me that crap.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Zeppel80Zeppel80 Member UncommonPosts: 74
    Although I've played many MMOs, I've never felt they were great. I stopped playing WoW about the time BC came out because it was tedious. The one I stuck with longest was ESO.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    No, can't really agree, too many games in other styles which are pretty amazing which I've yet to play instead of settling on an MMORPG which is merely "adequate."

    I don't play games like many do, who are really tourists who bounce between multiple titles on a whim.

    I focus on one game at a time, and only one, until I've consumed most of its content on its entirety, so it has to be great 




    delete5230CryomatrixConstantineMeruszzax

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,188
    It was a slow process, I guess Lotro was the last MMO I joined always knowing there was going to be a MMO for me. Since then I have had to hunt for a good MMO the last one I played was ESO, there have been MMOs after that but they were came up short and not so sweet.

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  • tewifiedtewified Member UncommonPosts: 4
    maplestory 2
  • BossChonoBossChono Member UncommonPosts: 23

    Depends I guess, for me it's not a steady decline but more of a peaks and valleys kind of thing.  FFxi was my first one and I loved it, but I can't go back, the controls and ui are too wierd to me now.  I liked Vanguard but my pc couldn't handle it and could never find anyone to go delving into caves with.  Bdo was fun for a bit but got boring, Lotro I keep going back to mostly because I like the scenery and story.  FFxiv was fun till my buddies quit and I realized I don't like speed running instance dungeons where you have to know everything before you start.  Never found another group of people to play with that weren't cliquish or elitist.  Gw2 is fun for me in spurts but a bug in a story mission really pissed me off not too long ago so stopped playing it.  Aion was a high point till I got to end game and was way to far behind on pvp gear and my legion dissolved. I don't mind getting ganked because I know I'm not that good at pvp but when it's constant I get sick of it.

    So I guess the 2nd time I played lotro was the highpoint to me, from Rise of Isengard to Helm's Deep.  Till my kinship broke up and the Helm's Deep big battles got boring.  I think I see a trend here of enjoying not that great games because I meet cool people but when they leave my interest wanes. And really not liking instance dungeons since I meander through games and take my time.  By the time I get to end game everyone has already done it and I go in "blind" and "noobish" and underperform.

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,932
    edited November 2018
    Hmmm difficult, I think it was right before everybody turned into a whiner. No clue what I was playing at that time, but man, everything was much more fun before that.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Post edited by lahnmir on
    KyleranAlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 990
    BossChono said:

    Aion was a high point till I got to end game and was way to far behind on pvp gear and my legion dissolved. I don't mind getting ganked because I know I'm not that good at pvp but when it's constant I get sick of it.


    That is the lifecycle of a grind, PvP-centric MMORPG.

    The egotistical hardcores really make the game unworthy playing.

    They grief players into quitting, and then blame the developers for not doing enough to keep or attract new players...

    Ignorant of the fact that the game's biggest problem is them and their attitude.

    FFA PvP is good, in theory, but such a system doesn't account for the fact that the people who are there first may (and usually do) grief everyone below them simply "because they can." This actually turns something that should be good (when approached properly) into a massive negative for the game.

    Karma systems can exist (i.e. Lineage II), but usually the developers put something in the game that allows it to be mitigated if not outright eliminated as a factor (i.e. L2 Sin Eater quest).

    Personally, I would never play an FFA PvP game.  I don't mind organized PvP (WoW BGs, Areana, Competitive FPS like Overwatch, Destiny 2 Crucible, etc.), but I don't do FFA anymore.  It's just heaven for griefers, which does nothing but make the entire experience a chore.
    skadad
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 518
    Quizzical said:
    It was all downhill after Pong.  </sarcasm>
    Those were the days... when innovation really meant something!
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 990
    edited November 2018

    Kyleran said:
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    No, can't really agree, too many games in other styles which are pretty amazing which I've yet to play instead of settling on an MMORPG which is merely "adequate."

    I don't play games like many do, who are really tourists who bounce between multiple titles on a whim.

    I focus on one game at a time, and only one, until I've consumed most of its content on its entirety, so it has to be great 




    That's a great way to fall into the trap being referred to in the post you quoted, and really not a great way to stay informed about what the market has to offer.  If you don't play other games, then you aren't informed about them.  Reading about them on a website does not inform you.  Reading forum posts doesn't inform you.  Playing them does.  That is why game reviewers... PLAY the game when reviewing them (and that is really only their own, personal, review of it... not YOURS).

    Human beings are fickle.  Our likes and dislikes are fluid.  Our preferences are fluid.  Our moods are fluid.  A game that was good today may get an update or expansion that makes it bad tomorrow.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with jumping from game to game.  Boredom and monotony are actual things that exist.

    In most MMORPGs on the market, you can point to specific instances when the game got a huge update or a change in business model or development philosophy was made.  Those can put players off and drive them to other games.  These don't happen at the same time...  They can bounce players around...

    The reason why the players are bouncing around is because no one is offering anything that captures their attention for more than a few months.  That is not their fault.  That's normal human behavior.  You don't waste your time consumer content in a mediocre game just for some completionist ambitious.  Time flies when you're having "fun."

    You'll be 5 years older before you know it.

    I'd rather not :-P

    I tend to be fairly quick triggered with games.  If an MMORPG doesn't interest me within the first 5 hours of gameplay, I am not gambling the next 1-500 hours on the off chance that it "eventually will."

    I'm not that stupid, anymore.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    Darksworm said:

    Kyleran said:
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    No, can't really agree, too many games in other styles which are pretty amazing which I've yet to play instead of settling on an MMORPG which is merely "adequate."

    I don't play games like many do, who are really tourists who bounce between multiple titles on a whim.

    I focus on one game at a time, and only one, until I've consumed most of its content on its entirety, so it has to be great 




    That's a great way to fall into the trap being referred to in the post you quoted, and really not a great way to stay informed about what the market has to offer.  If you don't play other games, then you aren't informed about them.  Reading about them on a website does not inform you.  Reading forum posts doesn't inform you.  Playing them does.  That is why game reviewers... PLAY the game when reviewing them (and that is really only their own, personal, review of it... not YOURS).

    Human beings are fickle.  Our likes and dislikes are fluid.  Our preferences are fluid.  Our moods are fluid.  A game that was good today may get an update or expansion that makes it bad tomorrow.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with jumping from game to game.  Boredom and monotony are actual things that exist.

    In most MMORPGs on the market, you can point to specific instances when the game got a huge update or a change in business model or development philosophy was made.  Those can put players off and drive them to other games.  These don't happen at the same time...  They can bounce players around...

    The reason why the players are bouncing around is because no one is offering anything that captures their attention for more than a few months.  That is not their fault.  That's normal human behavior.  You don't waste your time consumer content in a mediocre game just for some completionist ambitious.  Time flies when you're having "fun."

    You'll be 5 years older before you know it.

    I'd rather not :-P

    I tend to be fairly quick triggered with games.  If an MMORPG doesn't interest me within the first 5 hours of gameplay, I am not gambling the next 1-500 hours on the off chance that it "eventually will."

    I'm not that stupid, anymore.
    I have been called many things but "fluid" is not one of them, especially when it comes to understanding my personal preferences.

    I actually can fairly accurately discern whether I will enjoy something or not from reading or listening to the opinions of others. 

    The more I know about their personal preferences the better I can hit the target.

    Last summer I asked people here for their favorite single player games from which I boiled down to a list of 25 or so to play.

    I might be 7 or 8 games into the list and so far I've really not missed on any of them and only one game did I not play until "finished." (My lack of hand eye coordination prevents me from getting past a certain point, quite a ways into the game)

    Well, I haven't finished with NMS. set aside while I do my 5th playthrough of Fallout 4, in preparation for FO76 which I'm going to play in spite of what I've been reading. (I'll likely regret this decision)

    So no, I am not concerned I'm missing out on much by not trying everything under the sun, I view my actions as being terribly efficient at choosing new games to play.

    B)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,800
    Kyleran said:
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    No, can't really agree, too many games in other styles which are pretty amazing which I've yet to play instead of settling on an MMORPG which is merely "adequate."

    I don't play games like many do, who are really tourists who bounce between multiple titles on a whim.

    I focus on one game at a time, and only one, until I've consumed most of its content on its entirety, so it has to be great 




    I can see this thought set working.

    Though I've found myself less open to single player games, so obviously I need to cast wider nets than you.   The randomizing element that real people can add is defining (for me),  even in games like FFXIV which have some explicit designs to minimize how much others can actually change your gameplay.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,576
    anemo said:
    You know with only a few MMOs being released each year...  Have you ever stopped to think you might have to settle for adequate instead of amazing?
    I'm one of the lucky players that doesn't need to play an MMO, though I'd like to. I have so many other games I can play that "settling" is out of the question.
    Kylerankitarad

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

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