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The Recurring Issue in Guild Wars 2 - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited November 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageThe Recurring Issue in Guild Wars 2 - MMORPG.com

There’s one aspect of GW2 which is a recurring problem for me and it’s the churn and burn nature of the new zones we get with each living story episode. Often if I don’t get everything I want done in a zone it can be prohibitively difficult to go back and get these things done. Honestly, it’s not just related to the new content either, events in the core Tyria maps can also provide challenges. I’ll illustrate this using the roller beetle collection.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Amathe
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Comments

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    edited November 2018
    Killing the Legendary Ley Line Anomaly was added to the Beetle collection last June to make it more "popular". It's the 3rd time it is tied to something so (all) players are interested to go after it. I take it most players who have access to Long Live the Lich have gotten it by now if it is "dead" again.

    I had a similar issue with a Legendary bounty to complete the griffon collection. I ended up lucky to get into the map at the same time as a groups that does bounties eventually.

    GW2 is simply suffering the same thing as all themeparks MMOs suffer from: if you aren't with the lemmings, I mean the core pack, you will be left behind.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    It sounds like you're asking for the game to add 'more' grind so there's reasons for more players to be hanging around in old zones to help you complete objectives...

    I'm not sure I support that idea. You need to get in a guild and find some regular people to play with instead.
    TheScavenger
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    Most of the maps at least function fully with solo or small groups. The real problem is maps like Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Heart of Thorns maps that basically require full populations and will not age well at all going forward.
    NoxiasMauerick[Deleted User]Dhamon99
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Most of the time I stumbled into groups that were doing the Beetle and all went well. One thing I got from HoT was remembering to guest to a busier server if my own was dead and this allowed me to catch a group or two. I remember some guilds would sponsor groups to do some of the old content from time to time to help anyone who had missed the rush hour players gobbling up new content, I still see groups leading players through HoT content runs on the rare times I go back there.

    Once I got the beetle, never used it after that day. I do used mostly the Griffon and Sand Hound a lot and the Skimmer comes in handy going over water at times. Hated the Griffon quest at first but was worth it for the benefits.

    The holidays is probably a bad time to do such content as nearly every MMO out there now try to get players to play their game and so are offering a ton of perks.
    Arlee

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • NanbinoNanbino Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Some of my issues with GW2:
    1) Cheap design all around: Horrible character design (one of the most unsexies women design ever, their beasts are well done, buthumans just .... bleh. And this was coming from the company that revolutionized "human only" design and combat games. Just play any of their previous titles and look at their art direction...it all went cartoony poo poo).

    Sure there is a cool looking stone arcade on the mountain side...you go up to it, its just a 2D image spray painted behind an invisible wall you can't go between teh arcades you just bounce off. Of course they have "go to this mountain and climb" interaction, but if you really start exploring it is carrot on stick, the world is STALE. (insert mailboxes and NPCs that have the same "just roll off" effect and therefore begs the question: why even have them if they are useless?)

    The biggest: Laziness. Anyone ever just stop to ask self as you are following a main story arch, and have to take a few days off to level grind before next story arch boss fight, WHY there are tons of unrelated content to slag through? "Your following a band of pirates that kidnapped ap rincess....oh but for a few days go explore and killa bunch of outposts that have ghost npc's"...and these ghost NPC's are no other than copy and paste TOWNSMAN assets, and they literally JUST made them transparent...same movements, etc...EXCEPT....EXCEPT! When you target them, their Avatar at top is not transparent, it is literally THE SAME FLESHED OUT STANDARD NPC MODEL they forgot or too lazy to "turn transparent". This is F2P level stuff (and this is of course before core game went F2P)...

    There is more but already tl;dr

    2) Zerg pvp, llack luster. couldn't capture 1/4 of what old school wow pvp thrills had.

    3) ARthritis combat because 1-3 over and over and over and over....I get it if your also ona progression stage where harder maps require more dodge and spam...but when your going through ANY STAGE with scaled content, EVERY fight is like a mini boss fight...dodge, dodoge, etc... It should just be: 1 and dead, since I over level it. I understand you want that "realism" of "every monster can kill" or that "fair" "op players can't carry low players"...but you sacrafice realism the moment you create a fantasy game and mentioned above, crap world design, and you throw out out the pulling idea when the entire "everyone is equal" gets pulled in groups: resulting in pulling.

    4) menus, fast travel, and other useless fluff. Hence the reason people only get mounts "for that one expansion". Remove the diamonds to teleport every inch, and you have a real reason for mounts now...

    And a side point: This website for perma banning me back int he day when this game was so over fan boied, you can smell it through the monitor. One critic or one point to show the slobbering kids that this game was not a wow killer and you got perma banned here. It was bad. Sad. And pretty funny to see the state it is now XD. Sadly, although pretty much a different Genre, the original GW is still their shinning gem
    Viterzgirexile01DakeruDvoraRain_Deathraventweedledumb99
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297

    Nanbino said:

    Some of my issues with GW2:

    1) Cheap design all around: Horrible character design (one of the most unsexies women design ever, their beasts are well done, buthumans just .... bleh. And this was coming from the company that revolutionized "human only" design and combat games. Just play any of their previous titles and look at their art direction...it all went cartoony poo poo).



    Sure there is a cool looking stone arcade on the mountain side...you go up to it, its just a 2D image spray painted behind an invisible wall you can't go between teh arcades you just bounce off. Of course they have "go to this mountain and climb" interaction, but if you really start exploring it is carrot on stick, the world is STALE. (insert mailboxes and NPCs that have the same "just roll off" effect and therefore begs the question: why even have them if they are useless?)



    The biggest: Laziness. Anyone ever just stop to ask self as you are following a main story arch, and have to take a few days off to level grind before next story arch boss fight, WHY there are tons of unrelated content to slag through? "Your following a band of pirates that kidnapped ap rincess....oh but for a few days go explore and killa bunch of outposts that have ghost npc's"...and these ghost NPC's are no other than copy and paste TOWNSMAN assets, and they literally JUST made them transparent...same movements, etc...EXCEPT....EXCEPT! When you target them, their Avatar at top is not transparent, it is literally THE SAME FLESHED OUT STANDARD NPC MODEL they forgot or too lazy to "turn transparent". This is F2P level stuff (and this is of course before core game went F2P)...



    There is more but already tl;dr



    2) Zerg pvp, llack luster. couldn't capture 1/4 of what old school wow pvp thrills had.



    3) ARthritis combat because 1-3 over and over and over and over....I get it if your also ona progression stage where harder maps require more dodge and spam...but when your going through ANY STAGE with scaled content, EVERY fight is like a mini boss fight...dodge, dodoge, etc... It should just be: 1 and dead, since I over level it. I understand you want that "realism" of "every monster can kill" or that "fair" "op players can't carry low players"...but you sacrafice realism the moment you create a fantasy game and mentioned above, crap world design, and you throw out out the pulling idea when the entire "everyone is equal" gets pulled in groups: resulting in pulling.



    4) menus, fast travel, and other useless fluff. Hence the reason people only get mounts "for that one expansion". Remove the diamonds to teleport every inch, and you have a real reason for mounts now...



    And a side point: This website for perma banning me back int he day when this game was so over fan boied, you can smell it through the monitor. One critic or one point to show the slobbering kids that this game was not a wow killer and you got perma banned here. It was bad. Sad. And pretty funny to see the state it is now XD. Sadly, although pretty much a different Genre, the original GW is still their shinning gem



    Passionate.

    But.. completely disagree with everything you said except 2).

    Got to comment properly on this one though...

    Mounts? You haven't played the game lately and you don't have Path of Fire. The mounts in GW2 are the best iteration of the feature in any game, ever. The mounts are an absolute requirement for progression in the new zones, are a joy to use and add so much to the experience of playing in the old zones that it completely changes the feel of the game. I expect you saw the mounts, assumed they are like mounts in others games without knowing what you're talking about and decided to slag them off based on your incorrect opinion of them. They are NOT just a speed boost.

    Get the game, ride the mounts, eat your words... or please stop commenting about things you don't understand.
    AeandermaskedweaselThupliArleeEvilGeekShadowStyleBDakeruRain_Deathraventweedledumb99
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    Nanbino said:
    Some of my issues with GW2:
    1) Cheap design all around: Horrible character design (one of the most unsexies women design ever, their beasts are well done, buthumans just .... bleh. And this was coming from the company that revolutionized "human only" design and combat games. Just play any of their previous titles and look at their art direction...it all went cartoony poo poo).

    Sure there is a cool looking stone arcade on the mountain side...you go up to it, its just a 2D image spray painted behind an invisible wall you can't go between teh arcades you just bounce off. Of course they have "go to this mountain and climb" interaction, but if you really start exploring it is carrot on stick, the world is STALE. (insert mailboxes and NPCs that have the same "just roll off" effect and therefore begs the question: why even have them if they are useless?)

    The biggest: Laziness. Anyone ever just stop to ask self as you are following a main story arch, and have to take a few days off to level grind before next story arch boss fight, WHY there are tons of unrelated content to slag through? "Your following a band of pirates that kidnapped ap rincess....oh but for a few days go explore and killa bunch of outposts that have ghost npc's"...and these ghost NPC's are no other than copy and paste TOWNSMAN assets, and they literally JUST made them transparent...same movements, etc...EXCEPT....EXCEPT! When you target them, their Avatar at top is not transparent, it is literally THE SAME FLESHED OUT STANDARD NPC MODEL they forgot or too lazy to "turn transparent". This is F2P level stuff (and this is of course before core game went F2P)...

    There is more but already tl;dr

    2) Zerg pvp, llack luster. couldn't capture 1/4 of what old school wow pvp thrills had.

    3) ARthritis combat because 1-3 over and over and over and over....I get it if your also ona progression stage where harder maps require more dodge and spam...but when your going through ANY STAGE with scaled content, EVERY fight is like a mini boss fight...dodge, dodoge, etc... It should just be: 1 and dead, since I over level it. I understand you want that "realism" of "every monster can kill" or that "fair" "op players can't carry low players"...but you sacrafice realism the moment you create a fantasy game and mentioned above, crap world design, and you throw out out the pulling idea when the entire "everyone is equal" gets pulled in groups: resulting in pulling.

    4) menus, fast travel, and other useless fluff. Hence the reason people only get mounts "for that one expansion". Remove the diamonds to teleport every inch, and you have a real reason for mounts now...

    And a side point: This website for perma banning me back int he day when this game was so over fan boied, you can smell it through the monitor. One critic or one point to show the slobbering kids that this game was not a wow killer and you got perma banned here. It was bad. Sad. And pretty funny to see the state it is now XD. Sadly, although pretty much a different Genre, the original GW is still their shinning gem
    I didn't bother to complain I just left, was tired of the nerfs the warrior was getting and forcing people to go one kind of weapon, then when they hit heart of thorns forcing me to buy a expac, because several idiots was asking to one(pretty smart actually, they stoped living story for almost a year then sold it all in one go) and don't even let me go with that especialization you had to choose only one espec, now I heard ther is another one marvelous really, then sometime later I did check the warrior skills, more nerfs and more play like this or you are fucked, so yeah not going back never again.

    also the several changes on skills building was annoying like hell
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    They chose to cater to the "hard Core" player group when they made HoT, and that group will only do the "events" when they are new, once they have chewed though the content (and they will do it very quickly) and got the item they needed or wanted, the content becomes worthless to them and they swiftly return to their end-game grind content like raids and fractals.

    This is what Anet wanted, this was their design direction, and that was the group and community they wanted to cater to.

    You can't fix getting what you wanted.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UnbinoUnbino Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Problems finding people in a map in orden to do anything? Well, why not call people in the mega server instead in one map? I mean, in gw2 you cant wait that a big event wich needs a lot of people Just happen in a random instante of the map ,with a random organization. The big events are pre-organizated at the looking for group by the comanders.
    And the other hand, maybe you need some big event or some big Hunt and there are not squads in the lfg in this moment, but this is one of the reasons why people spends Gold to get the commander tag.
    In my experience, buy the commander tag was one of the better things i have done in gw2. You can call a lot of people from every server, explain the event for your squad, and everybody Will follow everywhere (even if you jump to the void, the people Will follow you with no sense hahah thats a funny fact that every comm knows xD).
    Every commander plays a very important rol in the game, a success or a fail events depends in a big part of the commander.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Personally, I've never had an issue finding people for any event in the core zones and I'm actively playing it now so I'm not saying that as someone who hasn't played in a long time.

    If there's any event that I need help with I just link the nearest waypoint in the map chat and say something like "Champ to the west". After about a minute people start showing up.
    Thupli
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    Ungood said:
    They chose to cater to the "hard Core" player group when they made HoT, and that group will only do the "events" when they are new, once they have chewed though the content (and they will do it very quickly) and got the item they needed or wanted, the content becomes worthless to them and they swiftly return to their end-game grind content like raids and fractals.

    This is what Anet wanted, this was their design direction, and that was the group and community they wanted to cater to.

    You can't fix getting what you wanted.
    If by "cater to," you mean acknowledge the existence of, then sure. They have harcore content now. It exists. It makes up less than 1% of the game, doesn't provide any superior progression, and is strictly optional. 

    Every time you make these statements, it comes across as entitled whining. Other people exist and want content which appeals to them. Them putting a handful of developers out of their pool of hundreds of developers towards optional raiding content doesn't remove the incredible breadth of casual content that the game already has, nor has it stopped them from producing large, high quality casual maps every few months. 

    You still have what you want, but you're also throwing a fit because a small group of other people are now able to mind their own business and play content that appeals to them separately of your experience. The game doesn't have to only cater to you in order to cater to you.
  • ViterzgirViterzgir Member UncommonPosts: 19
    LOL what a problem!

    Done my Beetle collections in like 2 days of casual playing in the evenings.

    Do a Bounty Hunt? Ugh, sooo hard. You *definitely can't* solo any champs and if you really can't - you need like 3 people.
    Kill an Anomaly? It spawns every 2 hours + 20mins. If you're not playing on dead hours - it can be done easily.

    Stop QQing.
    Game doesn't require for you to do anything - boohoo game is soo hollow, nothing to do.
    Game requires some minimal effort from you - boohoo why do I need to do this, why you just can't give me this for free?
    Kajidourden
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    They chose to cater to the "hard Core" player group when they made HoT, and that group will only do the "events" when they are new, once they have chewed though the content (and they will do it very quickly) and got the item they needed or wanted, the content becomes worthless to them and they swiftly return to their end-game grind content like raids and fractals.

    This is what Anet wanted, this was their design direction, and that was the group and community they wanted to cater to.

    You can't fix getting what you wanted.
    If by "cater to," you mean acknowledge the existence of, then sure. They have harcore content now. It exists. It makes up less than 1% of the game, doesn't provide any superior progression, and is strictly optional. 

    Every time you make these statements, it comes across as entitled whining. Other people exist and want content which appeals to them. Them putting a handful of developers out of their pool of hundreds of developers towards optional raiding content doesn't remove the incredible breadth of casual content that the game already has, nor has it stopped them from producing large, high quality casual maps every few months. 

    You still have what you want, but you're also throwing a fit because a small group of other people are now able to mind their own business and play content that appeals to them separately of your experience. The game doesn't have to only cater to you in order to cater to you.
    HoT, is hardly 1% of the game.. and the whole expansion, all it's content, and even the entire elite spec of every class, is geared towards hard core players... spare me your ill informed and totally wrong rhetoric.

    A full revision to Fractals, and even a few World Bosses got revised to appeal to the hard core crowed, this is NOT some little off in the way side with your private thing, this encroached into the entire game.

    Coupled that with Anets approval and support of DPS programs.. they went and catered to the hardcore crowed. No matter how much you can cry and lie about it otherwise, that is the truth.
    Nepheth
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Myri316Myri316 Member UncommonPosts: 8

    Nanbino said:

    Some of my issues with GW2:

    1) Cheap design all around: Horrible character design (one of the most unsexies women design ever, their beasts are well done, buthumans just .... bleh. And this was coming from the company that revolutionized "human only" design and combat games. Just play any of their previous titles and look at their art direction...it all went cartoony poo poo).



    Sure there is a cool looking stone arcade on the mountain side...you go up to it, its just a 2D image spray painted behind an invisible wall you can't go between teh arcades you just bounce off. Of course they have "go to this mountain and climb" interaction, but if you really start exploring it is carrot on stick, the world is STALE. (insert mailboxes and NPCs that have the same "just roll off" effect and therefore begs the question: why even have them if they are useless?)



    The biggest: Laziness. Anyone ever just stop to ask self as you are following a main story arch, and have to take a few days off to level grind before next story arch boss fight, WHY there are tons of unrelated content to slag through? "Your following a band of pirates that kidnapped ap rincess....oh but for a few days go explore and killa bunch of outposts that have ghost npc's"...and these ghost NPC's are no other than copy and paste TOWNSMAN assets, and they literally JUST made them transparent...same movements, etc...EXCEPT....EXCEPT! When you target them, their Avatar at top is not transparent, it is literally THE SAME FLESHED OUT STANDARD NPC MODEL they forgot or too lazy to "turn transparent". This is F2P level stuff (and this is of course before core game went F2P)...



    There is more but already tl;dr



    2) Zerg pvp, llack luster. couldn't capture 1/4 of what old school wow pvp thrills had.



    3) ARthritis combat because 1-3 over and over and over and over....I get it if your also ona progression stage where harder maps require more dodge and spam...but when your going through ANY STAGE with scaled content, EVERY fight is like a mini boss fight...dodge, dodoge, etc... It should just be: 1 and dead, since I over level it. I understand you want that "realism" of "every monster can kill" or that "fair" "op players can't carry low players"...but you sacrafice realism the moment you create a fantasy game and mentioned above, crap world design, and you throw out out the pulling idea when the entire "everyone is equal" gets pulled in groups: resulting in pulling.



    4) menus, fast travel, and other useless fluff. Hence the reason people only get mounts "for that one expansion". Remove the diamonds to teleport every inch, and you have a real reason for mounts now...



    And a side point: This website for perma banning me back int he day when this game was so over fan boied, you can smell it through the monitor. One critic or one point to show the slobbering kids that this game was not a wow killer and you got perma banned here. It was bad. Sad. And pretty funny to see the state it is now XD. Sadly, although pretty much a different Genre, the original GW is still their shinning gem



    Dont know about you but im talented enough in creating Female Characters that I dont have that issue. But yes the Female preset faces are horrible but theres always a way.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    They chose to cater to the "hard Core" player group when they made HoT, and that group will only do the "events" when they are new, once they have chewed though the content (and they will do it very quickly) and got the item they needed or wanted, the content becomes worthless to them and they swiftly return to their end-game grind content like raids and fractals.

    This is what Anet wanted, this was their design direction, and that was the group and community they wanted to cater to.

    You can't fix getting what you wanted.
    If by "cater to," you mean acknowledge the existence of, then sure. They have harcore content now. It exists. It makes up less than 1% of the game, doesn't provide any superior progression, and is strictly optional. 

    Every time you make these statements, it comes across as entitled whining. Other people exist and want content which appeals to them. Them putting a handful of developers out of their pool of hundreds of developers towards optional raiding content doesn't remove the incredible breadth of casual content that the game already has, nor has it stopped them from producing large, high quality casual maps every few months. 

    You still have what you want, but you're also throwing a fit because a small group of other people are now able to mind their own business and play content that appeals to them separately of your experience. The game doesn't have to only cater to you in order to cater to you.
    HoT, is hardly 1% of the game.. and the whole expansion, all it's content, and even the entire elite spec of every class, is geared towards hard core players... spare me your ill informed and totally wrong rhetoric.

    A full revision to Fractals, and even a few World Bosses got revised to appeal to the hard core crowed, this is NOT some little off in the way side with your private thing, this encroached into the entire game.

    Coupled that with Anets approval and support of DPS programs.. they went and catered to the hardcore crowed. No matter how much you can cry and lie about it otherwise, that is the truth.
    Nothing in Heart of Thorns even approaches hard core. It is more "difficult" but is still entirely reasonable to approach in small groups and often solo. 

    Fact is, I stopped playing HoT maps entirely because they are mindless, boring, turn-your-brain off zerg fests. Especially Dragon's Stand.

    World bosses in Heart of Thorns aren't out of line with existing ones and aren't even the most difficult bosses in the game (hello Triple Trouble.)

    Fractals needed a revision. Badly. And said revision made it more accessible to those with shorter play sessions (like myself), not less. 

    And people should be banned for using dps meters with their private groups and guilds? Give me a break. I'm not a user of one of these programs, but they're highly useful for guilds seeking to improve their rotations. 

    The only lying and crying here is on your end. The only fault on my end was a hyperbole about it representing 1% of the game's content. Fact is, it's still a minority, and that minority shrinks in scale each time a new map is added.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Also, for those that do not know this.

    With HoT, Anet and GW2, went the direction of catering to the Hardcore player base. The entire expansion was designed with hard, punishing, and complex maps, to keep average and casual players out them.

    This included, be limited to being able to get Elite Specs,  or Mastery Lines, as you were required to grind HoT content for the EXP to progress them.

    So a massive part of your character's development was taken from you, unless you opted to run very complex and convoluted maps, that were filled to bursting with mobs that requited meta builds to be able to kill with any efficiency. This in short killing most if not all casual solo play in HoT.

    Couple that with Long running Dynamic Events that required coordinated group effort to work, to unlock and open up areas of the map, made basic map completion in these areas near to impossible for a casual player.

    The mastery Line "Gliding" which they added to the Core Game, was a HoT only line, so if a player wanted to progress that, they needed to farm HoT.

    in Short, the Entire HoT expansion was for Hard Core Players, and that is not even touching the Raids.

    They also added levels to Fractals, increased the difficulty of fractals, added in a mastery line for fractals.

    Put in several legendary Items, that required max level Fractal completion to get, which again, limited the casual player.

    They increased the Difficulty and Complexity of some of the Core World Bosses to be more Hard Core directed, this directly affecting the base game.

    They destroyed dungeon rewards in such a way that they would not be appealing to the casual player anymore, and only a hardcore player most likely with a static group to do quick clears of full Dungeon Rations would be able to get decent rewards again, this in effect killing the casual dungeon pug scene.

    The the story mode dungeons are getting progressively harder as the game goes on, making them more and more discouraging to the casual player.

    Most new "Casual" maps are really just hard core meta farming maps, often run by hard core players, and once the meta dies, so to does the rest of the map.

    So.. No.. it was not some small 1% of the game that people continually tell lies about.. Anet revised whole game, on many levels to be for the hardcore player.

    This is what they wanted.. they can reap what they sow.

    AeanderRidelynn
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    edited November 2018
    Ungood said:
    Also, for those that do not know this.

    I believe you mean for those who do not think this.


    With HoT, Anet and GW2, went the direction of catering to the Hardcore player base. The entire expansion was designed with hard, punishing, and complex maps, to keep average and casual players out them.

    You're assuming motive. They didn't want to keep the casuals out. That's completely fucking asinine. Casuals were and are the majority of their playerbase. Moreover, casual-friendly and easy are two completely separate concepts. Casual games aren't casual because they lack challenge. They are casual because they lack in complexity, time wasting, and/or inconvenience.

    Heart of Thorns was designed to be difficult, yes, because the game lacked anything of any substantial difficulty, especially in the open world. That wasn't a good thing, and they were right to address that in some fashion.


    This included, be limited to being able to get Elite Specs,  or Mastery Lines, as you were required to grind HoT content for the EXP to progress them.

    By which you mean that masteries which only affect Heart of Thorns, and nothing else, require you to play the thing which they are designed to affect. There is no issue here. In fact, it's a brilliant design mechanic (or was intended to be) which adds completely optional progression to a part of the game entirely segregated from the easier open world that does not need or even utilize this progression.


    So a massive part of your character's development was taken from you, unless you opted to run very complex and convoluted maps, that were filled to bursting with mobs that requited meta builds to be able to kill with any efficiency. This in short killing most if not all casual solo play in HoT.

    Bullshit. You do not need meta builds to do anything in HoT. That's just silly.


    Couple that with Long running Dynamic Events that required coordinated group effort to work, to unlock and open up areas of the map, made basic map completion in these areas near to impossible for a casual player.

    You mean the dynamic events that the game advertised itself on before launch? 

    Also, even the most casual player can complete these maps. The meta events which block completion are NOT difficult, and the greater challenge actually comes from the hero points. 


    The mastery Line "Gliding" which they added to the Core Game, was a HoT only line, so if a player wanted to progress that, they needed to farm HoT.

    Very. Briefly. Very fucking briefly. It does not take long to learn all relevant gliding masteries at all. 


    in Short, the Entire HoT expansion was for Hard Core Players, and that is not even touching the Raids.

    They also added levels to Fractals, increased the difficulty of fractals, added in a mastery line for fractals.

    All of which were incredible, needed changes.


    Put in several legendary Items, that required max level Fractal completion to get, which again, limited the casual player.

    It's new optional stuff. Do you want all of the optional stuff for free? Why are you even playing video games?

    They increased the Difficulty and Complexity of some of the Core World Bosses to be more Hard Core directed, this directly affecting the base game.
    And they are still too easy, aside from Triple Trouble. Open world bosses were always meant to be difficult, but they're just shit. You can literally walk away and let your character autoattack most of them to death while the zerg does all of the simple work. Open world bosses are easy, boring shit, and fuck you for thinking that they should stay that way.


    They destroyed dungeon rewards in such a way that they would not be appealing to the casual player anymore, and only a hardcore player most likely with a static group to do quick clears of full Dungeon Rations would be able to get decent rewards again, this in effect killing the casual dungeon pug scene.

    Dungeon rewards were initially destroyed, but they are better than ever now because of repeatable achievements worth 5g. Fact is, dungeons aren't played because they're terrible and there are better, more fun, more rewarding content streams.


    The the story mode dungeons are getting progressively harder as the game goes on, making them more and more discouraging to the casual player.
    This one is just a boldfaced lie.


    Most new "Casual" maps are really just hard core meta farming maps, often run by hard core players, and once the meta dies, so to does the rest of the map.
    None of the season 3, season 4, or path of fire maps are truly dead yet, so I'm calling bullshit. The new maps hit a great balance on exploration and event farming, just like the vanilla ones.


    So.. No.. it was not some small 1% of the game that people continually tell lies about.. Anet revised whole game, on many levels to be for the hardcore player.

    This is what they wanted.. they can reap what they sow.

    Calling your incorrect bullshit in bold.
    Ridelynn
  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    One of the main problems is instead of making these events fun they've basically tried to screw people into going back and having to do them which makes them a chore.

    It's sad really, they had a good thing going but lost the real talent in the team early on.
    UngoodOctagon7711
  • NephethNepheth Member RarePosts: 473

    Ungood said:




    Ungood said:


    Aeander said:


    Ungood said:

    They chose to cater to the "hard Core" player group when they made HoT, and that group will only do the "events" when they are new, once they have chewed though the content (and they will do it very quickly) and got the item they needed or wanted, the content becomes worthless to them and they swiftly return to their end-game grind content like raids and fractals.



    This is what Anet wanted, this was their design direction, and that was the group and community they wanted to cater to.



    You can't fix getting what you wanted.


    If by "cater to," you mean acknowledge the existence of, then sure. They have harcore content now. It exists. It makes up less than 1% of the game, doesn't provide any superior progression, and is strictly optional. 

    Every time you make these statements, it comes across as entitled whining. Other people exist and want content which appeals to them. Them putting a handful of developers out of their pool of hundreds of developers towards optional raiding content doesn't remove the incredible breadth of casual content that the game already has, nor has it stopped them from producing large, high quality casual maps every few months. 

    You still have what you want, but you're also throwing a fit because a small group of other people are now able to mind their own business and play content that appeals to them separately of your experience. The game doesn't have to only cater to you in order to cater to you.


    HoT, is hardly 1% of the game.. and the whole expansion, all it's content, and even the entire elite spec of every class, is geared towards hard core players... spare me your ill informed and totally wrong rhetoric.

    A full revision to Fractals, and even a few World Bosses got revised to appeal to the hard core crowed, this is NOT some little off in the way side with your private thing, this encroached into the entire game.

    Coupled that with Anets approval and support of DPS programs.. they went and catered to the hardcore crowed. No matter how much you can cry and lie about it otherwise, that is the truth.


    Try sucking less.


    Try go fucking yourself.



    Awww what a cutie you are... There is nothing hardcore with HoT. Every single thing in that expansion except raids are pretty casual and soloable. But you couldn't even do that. So it is clear that you are the problem here not the game. So you should take your own advice and perform that by yourself. Maybe that can fix your sucking problem and you can actually become a decent gamer?
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Also, for those that do not know this.

    I believe you mean for those who do not think this.


    With HoT, Anet and GW2, went the direction of catering to the Hardcore player base. The entire expansion was designed with hard, punishing, and complex maps, to keep average and casual players out them.

    You're assuming motive. They didn't want to keep the casuals out. That's completely fucking asinine. Casuals were and are the majority of their playerbase. Moreover, casual-friendly and easy are two completely separate concepts. Casual games aren't casual because they lack challenge. They are casual because they lack in complexity, time wasting, and/or inconvenience.

    Heart of Thorns was designed to be difficult, yes, because the game lacked anything of any substantial difficulty, especially in the open world. That wasn't a good thing, and they were right to address that in some fashion.


    This included, be limited to being able to get Elite Specs,  or Mastery Lines, as you were required to grind HoT content for the EXP to progress them.

    By which you mean that masteries which only affect Heart of Thorns, and nothing else, require you to play the thing which they are designed to affect. There is no issue here. In fact, it's a brilliant design mechanic (or was intended to be) which adds completely optional progression to a part of the game entirely segregated from the easier open world that does not need or even utilize this progression.


    So a massive part of your character's development was taken from you, unless you opted to run very complex and convoluted maps, that were filled to bursting with mobs that requited meta builds to be able to kill with any efficiency. This in short killing most if not all casual solo play in HoT.

    Bullshit. You do not need meta builds to do anything in HoT. That's just silly.


    Couple that with Long running Dynamic Events that required coordinated group effort to work, to unlock and open up areas of the map, made basic map completion in these areas near to impossible for a casual player.

    You mean the dynamic events that the game advertised itself on before launch? 

    Also, even the most casual player can complete these maps. The meta events which block completion are NOT difficult, and the greater challenge actually comes from the hero points. 


    The mastery Line "Gliding" which they added to the Core Game, was a HoT only line, so if a player wanted to progress that, they needed to farm HoT.

    Very. Briefly. Very fucking briefly. It does not take long to learn all relevant gliding masteries at all. 


    in Short, the Entire HoT expansion was for Hard Core Players, and that is not even touching the Raids.

    They also added levels to Fractals, increased the difficulty of fractals, added in a mastery line for fractals.

    All of which were incredible, needed changes.


    Put in several legendary Items, that required max level Fractal completion to get, which again, limited the casual player.

    It's new optional stuff. Do you want all of the optional stuff for free? Why are you even playing video games?

    They increased the Difficulty and Complexity of some of the Core World Bosses to be more Hard Core directed, this directly affecting the base game.
    And they are still too easy, aside from Triple Trouble. Open world bosses were always meant to be difficult, but they're just shit. You can literally walk away and let your character autoattack most of them to death while the zerg does all of the simple work. Open world bosses are easy, boring shit, and fuck you for thinking that they should stay that way.


    They destroyed dungeon rewards in such a way that they would not be appealing to the casual player anymore, and only a hardcore player most likely with a static group to do quick clears of full Dungeon Rations would be able to get decent rewards again, this in effect killing the casual dungeon pug scene.

    Dungeon rewards were initially destroyed, but they are better than ever now because of repeatable achievements worth 5g. Fact is, dungeons aren't played because they're terrible and there are better, more fun, more rewarding content streams.


    The the story mode dungeons are getting progressively harder as the game goes on, making them more and more discouraging to the casual player.
    This one is just a boldfaced lie.


    Most new "Casual" maps are really just hard core meta farming maps, often run by hard core players, and once the meta dies, so to does the rest of the map.
    None of the season 3, season 4, or path of fire maps are truly dead yet, so I'm calling bullshit. The new maps hit a great balance on exploration and event farming, just like the vanilla ones.


    So.. No.. it was not some small 1% of the game that people continually tell lies about.. Anet revised whole game, on many levels to be for the hardcore player.

    This is what they wanted.. they can reap what they sow.

    Calling your incorrect bullshit in bold.
    Would help if you weren't so stupidly wrong.

    I mean hell.. 

    Lets look at this: Your Words:
    Heart of Thorns was designed to be difficult, yes, because the game lacked anything of any substantial difficulty, especially in the open world. 


    Now.. I want you to read how stupid this "correction" is.

    I say: Heart of Thorns was Difficult Hardcore Content.

    You say: No, you're wrong, Hear of Thorns is Difficult Hardcore Content

    Do you honestly realize how stupid you look?


    Lets look at your other winner for the day.

    By which you mean that masteries which only affect Heart of Thorns, and nothing else, require you to play the thing which they are designed to affect. 


    Do you even play this game? Gliding is in Core and HoT, and is a HoT only Mastery. You are not Correcting anyone, you are just spouting some ignorance and trying to justify the game moving into a hard core direction.. spare me your stupid at this point.

    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Aeander said:
    Calling your incorrect bullshit in bold.
    No.. all you did was cry "I'm a hardcore player and I like these changes"..

    Now,  Obviously you gotta be a special kind of stupid not to figure it out.. if you are a hardcore player and like the changes.. that the game is catering to you.


    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    edited November 2018
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Also, for those that do not know this.

    I believe you mean for those who do not think this.


    With HoT, Anet and GW2, went the direction of catering to the Hardcore player base. The entire expansion was designed with hard, punishing, and complex maps, to keep average and casual players out them.

    You're assuming motive. They didn't want to keep the casuals out. That's completely fucking asinine. Casuals were and are the majority of their playerbase. Moreover, casual-friendly and easy are two completely separate concepts. Casual games aren't casual because they lack challenge. They are casual because they lack in complexity, time wasting, and/or inconvenience.

    Heart of Thorns was designed to be difficult, yes, because the game lacked anything of any substantial difficulty, especially in the open world. That wasn't a good thing, and they were right to address that in some fashion.


    This included, be limited to being able to get Elite Specs,  or Mastery Lines, as you were required to grind HoT content for the EXP to progress them.

    By which you mean that masteries which only affect Heart of Thorns, and nothing else, require you to play the thing which they are designed to affect. There is no issue here. In fact, it's a brilliant design mechanic (or was intended to be) which adds completely optional progression to a part of the game entirely segregated from the easier open world that does not need or even utilize this progression.


    So a massive part of your character's development was taken from you, unless you opted to run very complex and convoluted maps, that were filled to bursting with mobs that requited meta builds to be able to kill with any efficiency. This in short killing most if not all casual solo play in HoT.

    Bullshit. You do not need meta builds to do anything in HoT. That's just silly.


    Couple that with Long running Dynamic Events that required coordinated group effort to work, to unlock and open up areas of the map, made basic map completion in these areas near to impossible for a casual player.

    You mean the dynamic events that the game advertised itself on before launch? 

    Also, even the most casual player can complete these maps. The meta events which block completion are NOT difficult, and the greater challenge actually comes from the hero points. 


    The mastery Line "Gliding" which they added to the Core Game, was a HoT only line, so if a player wanted to progress that, they needed to farm HoT.

    Very. Briefly. Very fucking briefly. It does not take long to learn all relevant gliding masteries at all. 


    in Short, the Entire HoT expansion was for Hard Core Players, and that is not even touching the Raids.

    They also added levels to Fractals, increased the difficulty of fractals, added in a mastery line for fractals.

    All of which were incredible, needed changes.


    Put in several legendary Items, that required max level Fractal completion to get, which again, limited the casual player.

    It's new optional stuff. Do you want all of the optional stuff for free? Why are you even playing video games?

    They increased the Difficulty and Complexity of some of the Core World Bosses to be more Hard Core directed, this directly affecting the base game.
    And they are still too easy, aside from Triple Trouble. Open world bosses were always meant to be difficult, but they're just shit. You can literally walk away and let your character autoattack most of them to death while the zerg does all of the simple work. Open world bosses are easy, boring shit, and fuck you for thinking that they should stay that way.


    They destroyed dungeon rewards in such a way that they would not be appealing to the casual player anymore, and only a hardcore player most likely with a static group to do quick clears of full Dungeon Rations would be able to get decent rewards again, this in effect killing the casual dungeon pug scene.

    Dungeon rewards were initially destroyed, but they are better than ever now because of repeatable achievements worth 5g. Fact is, dungeons aren't played because they're terrible and there are better, more fun, more rewarding content streams.


    The the story mode dungeons are getting progressively harder as the game goes on, making them more and more discouraging to the casual player.
    This one is just a boldfaced lie.


    Most new "Casual" maps are really just hard core meta farming maps, often run by hard core players, and once the meta dies, so to does the rest of the map.
    None of the season 3, season 4, or path of fire maps are truly dead yet, so I'm calling bullshit. The new maps hit a great balance on exploration and event farming, just like the vanilla ones.


    So.. No.. it was not some small 1% of the game that people continually tell lies about.. Anet revised whole game, on many levels to be for the hardcore player.

    This is what they wanted.. they can reap what they sow.

    Calling your incorrect bullshit in bold.
    Would help if you weren't so stupidly wrong.

    I mean hell.. 

    Lets look at this: Your Words:
    Heart of Thorns was designed to be difficult, yes, because the game lacked anything of any substantial difficulty, especially in the open world. 


    Now.. I want you to read how stupid this "correction" is.

    I say: Heart of Thorns was Difficult Hardcore Content.

    You say: No, you're wrong, Hear of Thorns is Difficult Hardcore Content

    Do you honestly realize how stupid you look?


    Lets look at your other winner for the day.

    By which you mean that masteries which only affect Heart of Thorns, and nothing else, require you to play the thing which they are designed to affect. 


    Do you even play this game? Gliding is in Core and HoT, and is a HoT only Mastery. You are not Correcting anyone, you are just spouting some ignorance and trying to justify the game moving into a hard core direction.. spare me your stupid at this point.

    At no point did I use the word "hardcore" to describe Heart of Thorns. That was your word. Not mine.

    Is the late game of any video game ever made hardcore? Are the difficult later levels in Candy Crush hardcore. Fucking no, because hardcore and difficult are two separate concepts. Yes, even casual mobile games progress in difficulty because people, even casual people, like to be engaged in what they are playing.

    Do you even realize how fucking stupid you sound? Go on. Tell me with a straight face that Dragalia Lost or Fire Emblem Heroes on Mobile have difficult levels at the endgame because they're hard core. 
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Aeander said:

    Is the late game of any video game ever made hardcore? Are the difficult later levels in Candy Crush hardcore. Fucking no, because hardcore and difficult are two separate concepts. Yes, even casual mobile games progress in difficulty because people, even casual people, like to be engaged in what they are playing.

    Do you even realize how fucking stupid you sound?
    Let me hold your hand here.

    I am Obviously a  Casual.
    You are a Obviously a Hardcore.

    If you like the changes and I do not.. you would need to be dumber then donkey shit not to realize that the game is catering to Hardcore players with those changes.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,837
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:

    Is the late game of any video game ever made hardcore? Are the difficult later levels in Candy Crush hardcore. Fucking no, because hardcore and difficult are two separate concepts. Yes, even casual mobile games progress in difficulty because people, even casual people, like to be engaged in what they are playing.

    Do you even realize how fucking stupid you sound?
    Let me hold your hand here.
    No thanks. I don't consent to that.


    I am Obviously a  Casual.
    Yes. 

    You are a Obviously a Hardcore.
    No. You think I'm a hardcore. I'm average at best and frankly far too easily stressed out to engage in hardcore activities. But then, I'm also not dumb enough to think that Heart of Thorns open world maps are hardcore.

    If you like the changes and I do not.. you would need to be dumber then donkey shit not to realize that the game is catering to Hardcore players with those changes.
    You can dislike the changes all you want. But you have yet to demonstrate how the game is no longer casual friendly because of them. Because from where I stand, there isn't a more casual friendly MMO at best.
    I tire of you. It's like arguing with a toddler, and an especially entitled brat of a toddler at that.
    NephethJeffSpicoli
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    edited November 2018
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:

    Is the late game of any video game ever made hardcore? Are the difficult later levels in Candy Crush hardcore. Fucking no, because hardcore and difficult are two separate concepts. Yes, even casual mobile games progress in difficulty because people, even casual people, like to be engaged in what they are playing.

    Do you even realize how fucking stupid you sound?
    Let me hold your hand here.
    No thanks. I don't consent to that.


    I am Obviously a  Casual.
    Yes. 

    You are a Obviously a Hardcore.
    No. You think I'm a hardcore. I'm average at best and frankly far too easily stressed out to engage in hardcore activities. But then, I'm also not dumb enough to think that Heart of Thorns open world maps are hardcore.

    If you like the changes and I do not.. you would need to be dumber then donkey shit not to realize that the game is catering to Hardcore players with those changes.
    You can dislike the changes all you want. But you have yet to demonstrate how the game is no longer casual friendly because of them. Because from where I stand, there isn't a more casual friendly MMO at best.
    I tire of you. It's like arguing with a toddler, and an especially entitled brat of a toddler at that.
    Says the person who came into a casual game and cried it was too easy... 

    and as opposed to doing the mature thing, which would have been moving on to another game that was your skill bracket, you just stayed around and cried.. and cried.. and cried that the game needed to be made harder to make you happy.. screwing over the casuals that were enjoying it..

    The only entitled brat in this discussion is you, and people like you, that come into games and ruin them.
    JeffSpicoliAeander
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

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