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Bill Murphy - Fallout 76 May Be the Sandbox MMO We've Been Waiting For - MMORPG.com

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  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,708
    Most of the people we have played the "beta" (actually this is final release) know this game is not nowhere near great by any standards. Even die hard fans and non criteria guys cant give it more than a 7,5. Seasoned players would have trouble to even rise it analisis to 7.

    Its like playing FO4 without NPCs nor main quests. After 2 hours the only purpose of playing it had become leveling and getting cards to improve skills/get perks for.... nothing.

    This should have been a 20$ "expansion" (actually is more like a "contraction") for FO4. 3 months in 3/4 of the players will have left and they will try BR mode. After a few necromancy attempts server will shut down by early 2021.
    As a "seasoned player", I have been playing games both PC and otherwise for almost 40 years, I have to disagree. 76 is every bit as fun and engaging as was Fallout 4. I have around 400 hours playing FO4 and know. And what you say about no main quests is not true. I have been playing the BETA and have been doing MAIN QUESTS. And while the game may not have human NPC's, it does have plenty of NPC's that are every bit as engaging as those in FO4. 

    This game is four times the size of FO4 and has more content then FO4. The great thing about it is that I can now play with my friends and family.  Pvp is not something you must particiapte in. It is opt in and works fine as such. If you wish to PvP, you can and the mechanics feel like a pvp game. If you wish to solo, you can also do that. 

    I don't mind if you do wish to play this game. But please do not misrepresent  the facts. Fallout 76 is a fun Fallout game and will cause me and my friends to play it at least until Fallout 5 releases.

    ApollosWill

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • RateroRatero Member UncommonPosts: 431
    Nyctelios said:
    Ratero said:
    As a solo player I can tell you that Fallout 76 can still give you the normal "feel" of the other Fallout games but it is a bit more lonely since there are no human type NPC's to interact with. The world events seem to happen quite often and at first it's great but it gets meh after you see the same event pop several times in one game play. The world events should be a bit more on the uncommon side I think.

    I like how the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system works but I think that how some of the Perk cards are locked behind a character level wall is a bit much. Also, some weapons you find can be locked behind a player level wall which I dislike. If I find a new weapon I feel that I should be able to use it right then.

    The biggest problem I have with FO76 is that are limited to having only 400 pounds in your stash. After you just a few hours playing you'll become encumbered to the point where your AP's drop by just moving around and your stash is totally full so you cannot put anything else in it. Once Bethesda fixes the stash problem this game will become much more pleasant to play.
    First: There are NPCs to interact. Explore. Most "guilds" interact with each other even if they are red (enemies). Sometimes fights will start between ghouls and scorcheds. Sometimes  red enemies won't fight you and will say something meaningful to the lore or world exploration.

    Second: You can stash all your junk in any box. So build C.A.M.P., dismantle your things and store your junk items. You'll be able to access them anywhere. No point carrying.

    That was made so camping and going back to town as some sort of value and since you drop all your junk (not your gear) when you die, it's a risky situation to ignore the inventory management aspect of the game in favor of rushing through it. There are cards that helps with the weight too, of course.
    Sorry... I said there are no HUMAN NPC's in the game.  There are Holo tapes and robotic types in the game but there are no Human ones.  That makes it feel empty to me.  Without that interaction the game seems to lack something that the other FallOut games had going for them.

    Also you can have up to 400 pounds in  your stash which is not nearly enough to store all your gear, weapons and broken down crafting items even if you use the crafting station and turn them into bulk type items.  It is very easy to completely fill up your stash within a few hours of normal game play to the point where it is full and you are encumbered which makes your AP drop if you try to run.

    The game is more inventory management than having fun exploring and soaking up the lore.  I personally feel that the game has it's priorities misplaced and they should give you unlimited stash for crafting materials and leave the 400 pound weight reserved (or a bit more) for armor and weapons that you want to keep without breaking them down so you can use them at a future time.

    The Perk cards are helpful to be sure when it comes to weight management.  However, if your out and about hunting you'll want those points into something that will keep you alive instead of something that will help you carry more with out encumbering you before you can deposit it in your already at capacity stash box.  Also, in the early levels and most likely even after you max out at level 50 you may or may not have the cards you need to help overcome your encumbrance issues.  It may take you several levels after you reach 50 before you get all the cards you desire for the specific build you are going for.

    This game is a diamond in the rough.  I think in time it will be improved as more content is updated and released.  I think it is well worth playing as long as you want the feel of the FallOut games but I also feel it needs work on the personal and stash weight mechanics.

    ApollosWill

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,031
    I dunno...i am not hearing good things about this at all.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Ratero said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Ratero said:
    As a solo player I can tell you that Fallout 76 can still give you the normal "feel" of the other Fallout games but it is a bit more lonely since there are no human type NPC's to interact with. The world events seem to happen quite often and at first it's great but it gets meh after you see the same event pop several times in one game play. The world events should be a bit more on the uncommon side I think.

    I like how the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system works but I think that how some of the Perk cards are locked behind a character level wall is a bit much. Also, some weapons you find can be locked behind a player level wall which I dislike. If I find a new weapon I feel that I should be able to use it right then.

    The biggest problem I have with FO76 is that are limited to having only 400 pounds in your stash. After you just a few hours playing you'll become encumbered to the point where your AP's drop by just moving around and your stash is totally full so you cannot put anything else in it. Once Bethesda fixes the stash problem this game will become much more pleasant to play.
    First: There are NPCs to interact. Explore. Most "guilds" interact with each other even if they are red (enemies). Sometimes fights will start between ghouls and scorcheds. Sometimes  red enemies won't fight you and will say something meaningful to the lore or world exploration.

    Second: You can stash all your junk in any box. So build C.A.M.P., dismantle your things and store your junk items. You'll be able to access them anywhere. No point carrying.

    That was made so camping and going back to town as some sort of value and since you drop all your junk (not your gear) when you die, it's a risky situation to ignore the inventory management aspect of the game in favor of rushing through it. There are cards that helps with the weight too, of course.
    Sorry... I said there are no HUMAN NPC's in the game.  There are Holo tapes and robotic types in the game but there are no Human ones.  That makes it feel empty to me.  Without that interaction the game seems to lack something that the other FallOut games had going for them.

    Also you can have up to 400 pounds in  your stash which is not nearly enough to store all your gear, weapons and broken down crafting items even if you use the crafting station and turn them into bulk type items.  It is very easy to completely fill up your stash within a few hours of normal game play to the point where it is full and you are encumbered which makes your AP drop if you try to run.

    The game is more inventory management than having fun exploring and soaking up the lore.  I personally feel that the game has it's priorities misplaced and they should give you unlimited stash for crafting materials and leave the 400 pound weight reserved (or a bit more) for armor and weapons that you want to keep without breaking them down so you can use them at a future time.

    The Perk cards are helpful to be sure when it comes to weight management.  However, if your out and about hunting you'll want those points into something that will keep you alive instead of something that will help you carry more with out encumbering you before you can deposit it in your already at capacity stash box.  Also, in the early levels and most likely even after you max out at level 50 you may or may not have the cards you need to help overcome your encumbrance issues.  It may take you several levels after you reach 50 before you get all the cards you desire for the specific build you are going for.

    This game is a diamond in the rough.  I think in time it will be improved as more content is updated and released.  I think it is well worth playing as long as you want the feel of the FallOut games but I also feel it needs work on the personal and stash weight mechanics.


    The major issue is, people don't start with points and perks already implemented, you pretty much start from scratch.  I've played quite a bit, and I did spend a substantial amount of points in both strength and intelligence as I plan to craft, so I took the perks I needed to make it possible.  Even with that being said, and banking everything and then some, I never hit the cap in my stash. 

    It's a different experience than fallout 4.  Most people who have played the game, even in every test, haven't made it to level 20 yet, much less earned enough perks and items to really grasp everything the game, and leveling has to offer. 

    While I personally dislike the weight management, spend a lot of time micromanaging my weight, and items, it is mostly because I also spend a lot of time crafting and building too. Most people probably won't pick up every desk fan and ceramic bucket and roll of duct tape they find, but I do. 

    But because of that, I've also had some fantastic experiences when I team up with other players and I'm able to barter with upgrades, ammo, and items that they, themselves cannot create, either due to lack of materials, or lack of having the plans and recipes.  


    For as much as people like to try and play it off that this is fallout 4 with mods, I also hear a lot of complaints how unlike fallout 4 it is. How different some things are, how tough some of the mobs are, how currency is so tough to come by, how leveling is too slow...  

    Maybe that will all be tweaked, maybe it won't... but for someone like me the journey is insanely fun for me. Sure the weight mechanics could be helped a little, but on the flip side of that, if they ease it too much, the benefits of working on carrying and storing more items is meaningless.  :shrug:
    klash2defd_20ApollosWill



  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 212
    The PvP is a turn off for me. Now if they allow private servers where you can control who enters then it might be worth checking out.
  • MacAllenMacAllen Member UncommonPosts: 63
    People have abused the word "sandbox" until it has no meaning. Second Life is a sandbox game, because, like a sandbox in real life, you build anything/everything you want. Minecraft is a sandbox game. Fallout '76 lets you build a tiny house that disappears when you log off. It's less of a sandbox than Fallout 4 was, that allowed you to build large, persistent settlements.

    And MMO? Again, just keep slapping words around until they have no meaning. Massive? 24 players is massive? What does that make 100 player PUGB? Frigging huge?

    Fallout '76 is what happens when you remove everything from a Fallout game that makes it a Fallout game and then try to make a battleground out of it because "that's what sells!" Because everyone who played Fallout 4 for 100s/1000s of hours all thought "you know what this game has? too much content and not enough PvP!"
    Blueliner
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,708
    Ratero said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Ratero said:
    As a solo player I can tell you that Fallout 76 can still give you the normal "feel" of the other Fallout games but it is a bit more lonely since there are no human type NPC's to interact with. The world events seem to happen quite often and at first it's great but it gets meh after you see the same event pop several times in one game play. The world events should be a bit more on the uncommon side I think.

    I like how the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system works but I think that how some of the Perk cards are locked behind a character level wall is a bit much. Also, some weapons you find can be locked behind a player level wall which I dislike. If I find a new weapon I feel that I should be able to use it right then.

    The biggest problem I have with FO76 is that are limited to having only 400 pounds in your stash. After you just a few hours playing you'll become encumbered to the point where your AP's drop by just moving around and your stash is totally full so you cannot put anything else in it. Once Bethesda fixes the stash problem this game will become much more pleasant to play.
    First: There are NPCs to interact. Explore. Most "guilds" interact with each other even if they are red (enemies). Sometimes fights will start between ghouls and scorcheds. Sometimes  red enemies won't fight you and will say something meaningful to the lore or world exploration.

    Second: You can stash all your junk in any box. So build C.A.M.P., dismantle your things and store your junk items. You'll be able to access them anywhere. No point carrying.

    That was made so camping and going back to town as some sort of value and since you drop all your junk (not your gear) when you die, it's a risky situation to ignore the inventory management aspect of the game in favor of rushing through it. There are cards that helps with the weight too, of course.
    Sorry... I said there are no HUMAN NPC's in the game.  There are Holo tapes and robotic types in the game but there are no Human ones.  That makes it feel empty to me.  Without that interaction the game seems to lack something that the other FallOut games had going for them.

    Also you can have up to 400 pounds in  your stash which is not nearly enough to store all your gear, weapons and broken down crafting items even if you use the crafting station and turn them into bulk type items.  It is very easy to completely fill up your stash within a few hours of normal game play to the point where it is full and you are encumbered which makes your AP drop if you try to run.

    The game is more inventory management than having fun exploring and soaking up the lore.  I personally feel that the game has it's priorities misplaced and they should give you unlimited stash for crafting materials and leave the 400 pound weight reserved (or a bit more) for armor and weapons that you want to keep without breaking them down so you can use them at a future time.

    The Perk cards are helpful to be sure when it comes to weight management.  However, if your out and about hunting you'll want those points into something that will keep you alive instead of something that will help you carry more with out encumbering you before you can deposit it in your already at capacity stash box.  Also, in the early levels and most likely even after you max out at level 50 you may or may not have the cards you need to help overcome your encumbrance issues.  It may take you several levels after you reach 50 before you get all the cards you desire for the specific build you are going for.

    This game is a diamond in the rough.  I think in time it will be improved as more content is updated and released.  I think it is well worth playing as long as you want the feel of the FallOut games but I also feel it needs work on the personal and stash weight mechanics.

    Just wanted to correct something. They have said that the 400 pound limit on the stash is only for the BETA and will be significantly increased for launch. 

    d_20

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • RateroRatero Member UncommonPosts: 431
    @Gruug I don't mean to quibble but could you please state where you saw that about the stash size?  All I've seen so far is that the 400 pound stash size is intentional.  I've been searching the past few days on this subject and only found where other people are having stash size issues and they want more capacity but nothing solid from the Dev's.  I really would like to read this if you found a source.  Thanks in advance.
    d_20

  • RolanStormRolanStorm Member UncommonPosts: 190
    Naysayers do not get the gravity of it. This game is good and will get even better as they develop it with DLCs and expansions. Which I do not need anytime soon because there is ton of content to explore.

    I loved my time in beta and - for the first time in a log time - I am excited to explore more of this game. Finding my own power armor set without any guides was inspiring as killing PKer that was not smart enough (I just claimed ownership of a Poseidon Energy Plant and when he attacked me automated defense system responded).

    If you are looking for an adventure this is it.
    ApollosWillGruug
  • TacticalZombehTacticalZombeh Member UncommonPosts: 319
    Lol @BillMurphy complaining about people not getting the point when he's the one who derailed it.

    Anyway, I'm liking the overall look and feel, but I'm not itching to buy it any time soon. Too many issues like the framerate tied to physics, crippled keybinding, PvP'rs still being able to grief, even if you're in passive mode (possibly more-so), locked PoV unless you fiddle with and write-protect .INI files, no ultra-wide support (modders did finally fix it, with a good UI, in FO4).

    So I'll wait and see. Wasn't hyped before (actually wasn't really interested at all) so it's no biggie if it stays on my no-buy list for the foreseeable.
    Interitus
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,417
    edited November 2018


    again with this random nonsense articles?



    again fallout 74 is nothing we need or want, is jsut a money brag, killing all the lore, stop trying to sell crap as a good thing



    talk for yourself kiddo.

    fallout 76 (mine seems to be 2 numbers higher than yours) is what i want and need.
    and quite frankly, whoever sais this is no fallout, simply didn't play it yet, obv is obv
    ApollosWill

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    klash2def said:

    MMO is much more than "Massively".


    No, just No.

    Ignoring the rest of what you posted, as it is irrelevant.

    MMO is not much more than Massively, at all.

    Massively Multiplayer Online.

    Massively is the most important word out of the three, nothing in MMO means more than the first M.
    IselinTheScavenger
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,895
    klash2def said:

    But Here we go again. This whole thing on what gets to be called MMO

    .....

    For his generation Destiny is Everquest.

    I love change.
    Oh c'mon you love this topic and you know it. You would barely post anything if it weren't for this subject.

    It gives you an opportunity to expand on your thesis that these everyday arguments are about liking/disliking change instead of what they really are: simply trying to change the meaning of a long established term for a type of game in decline to include a type of popular game that borrows a few things from MMOs. 

    Liking or disliking this type of game is irrelevant to how you label it... if you must label it. It's actually the totally unnecessary act of putting a label on it that limits it and detracts from the discussion about how good/bad the game is and self-derails discussions into trivial and pedantic off-topic horseshit when the author slaps it on the title like a putting a chip on his own shoulder and saying "come at me bro!"

    I personally could give less of a shit about Destiny or FO76 being an MMO or a sandbox. I only care about how the game plays.

    It's you and others who assign and defend these labels for games that could conceivably be shoehorned into fitting the labels, who think you're on the cutting edge of modern trends. And then you top it off by constantly saying that anyone who disagrees with your edgy labeling is just resisting change... you really got to get over yourselves.

    YashaXGobstopper3DScorchien
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,411
    First sentence of the article is fake news: "Like Elder Scrolls Online, or perhaps Destiny 1 & 2, Fallout 76 limits the amount of players in an "instance" of the game world to 24".

    In ESO a raid is limited to 24 players, but there are often numerous 24-player raids running per faction (so times that by 3) as well as many players who are not in a raid or in smaller groups and that is all on one massive map where every player can interact with each other in real time.

    Keep it real please.
    Iselin
    ....
  • BlotieBlotie Member UncommonPosts: 29
    My experience in beta is completely opposite.  If you havent played beta go watch the reviews on youtube.  The PvE is down right boring and easy.  No NPCs means you have zero impact on the story line.  You go from point to point watching holotapes.  Dated graphics, boring PvE, no impact on story.  As for PvP... yawn.  If players dont want to PvP you cannot do much.  If someone wants to port away during PvP they can.  If you die you can respawn close to where you died and attack your killer almost instantly since they become marked on your map no matter where they go.  This is just a Fallout 4 skin on a bad PvP game.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Blotie said:
    ...  This is just a Fallout 4 skin on a bad PvP game.
    That's just the point: Fallout 76 is NOT a "PVP game" !

    It's a game with PVP.

    Subtle but important difference... :wink:
    TacticalZombehRatero
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Gruug said:
     .

    Just wanted to correct something. They have said that the 400 pound limit on the stash is only for the BETA and will be significantly increased for launch. 

    Perhaps Bethesda are using beta to gauge the "minimum" inventory size.

    Let's face it, monetizing inventory slots is a staple in most Cash Shops...
  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    This game may or may not be the bee's knees, the cat jimmy jams and the dogs bollocks but what im worried about in a strange way is if this is an actual success there will not be a fallout 5, because why bother.

    I personally don't want this version of fallout, not saying this experiment is wrong, and if its fun then YAY, but I want a proper Fallout 5 not this and if this becomes to successful then and understandably why bother.


    Hope this makes sense, its kinda a conflicted stance as I want to try this but at the same time I want to hate it.

  • ApollosWillApollosWill Member UncommonPosts: 82
    edited November 2018
    Haven't been any mmo for a long time, I have been excited about or where I didn't end up being disappointed.
    I went into Fallout 76 prepared to run away screaming (based on reviews), even pre-ordering for just $5, so it would be easy to cut my loses.
    Outcome: I have such a crazy hard time waiting for release, even cursing I have to work the next two beta times.

    This game is going to be special to me, and I find it more mmORPG, than most if not all of the rest of the games out there
    Post edited by ApollosWill on
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited November 2018
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:

    But Here we go again. This whole thing on what gets to be called MMO

    .....

    For his generation Destiny is Everquest.

    I love change.
    Oh c'mon you love this topic and you know it. You would barely post anything if it weren't for this subject.

    It gives you an opportunity to expand on your thesis that these everyday arguments are about liking/disliking change instead of what they really are: simply trying to change the meaning of a long established term for a type of game in decline to include a type of popular game that borrows a few things from MMOs. 

    Liking or disliking this type of game is irrelevant to how you label it... if you must label it. It's actually the totally unnecessary act of putting a label on it that limits it and detracts from the discussion about how good/bad the game is and self-derails discussions into trivial and pedantic off-topic horseshit when the author slaps it on the title like a putting a chip on his own shoulder and saying "come at me bro!"

    I personally could give less of a shit about Destiny or FO76 being an MMO or a sandbox. I only care about how the game plays.

    It's you and others who assign and defend these labels for games that could conceivably be shoehorned into fitting the labels, who think you're on the cutting edge of modern trends. And then you top it off by constantly saying that anyone who disagrees with your edgy labeling is just resisting change... you really got to get over yourselves.

    ah okay so calling these games something at all is "edgy" lol. "get over yourselves" how about tell that to the people who constantly tell people they simply can't label things. That's edgy to me. Trying to avoid labels. "I'm unique labels don't apply!" is the most edgy shit ever. You cant avoid labels in this life sorry to disappoint you. The reality is everything has a label. If one doesn't exist a new label will be made.  its just human.

    This isn't about changing the meaning of a term. Its about expanding its meaning because of new information.  That's what we do, we adapt and change when new information is presented. Its not edgy its common sense. Its amazing how common sense seems to be edgy to people now. You act as if somebody said MMO now means "Many Moon Oranges. That's changing the meaning of the term. Saying a game is MMO Lite is expanding the MMO term.  So relax big dog, nobody is changing the meaning of the OG term.

    This is funny to me though because you literally say "Liking or disliking this type of game" in your second paragraph. That implies that you know a label should exist.

    Why not label? what's wrong with labels? What do you suggest then if not called something? They have to be called something, even if just "Game". So the problem isn't the labeling, you don't agree with the labeling. That's the problem. 

    Have you played any of these games? Are you denying the similarities to MMO or is it "I don't give a shit" now because you cant argue against it anymore?  I personally never say it first... its always the response to people like yourself saying why it isn't or straight up calling people stupid for even making the suggestion. Nothing is edgy when its evident. I don't need to prove to anyone here that I'm on the cutting edge of tech, trust me.

    I only bring it up in defense of the people being called stupid (myself incl) because whoever doesn't agree with them. I explain why we aren't wrong for saying MMO. Again who are you or anyone else to tell people they cant label things they feel need labeling? Especially since the article itself refers to F76 as MMO and the first thing people say is "its not a mmo" well who are you kind sir to tell people they cant call it that? People who think like me will say "Well actually it is kinda a MMO, here is why" then that turns into more people like yourself attacking that person because they used a label they don't like. Not that its wrong fundamentally but because they hate the label.

    If people feel like these games should be called something, let them do it. Its not up to you and we aren't wrong for saying what we are experiencing. The reason you say " I don't give a shit" is because you feel it too, you just don't want to accept it because you are one of the people who have constantly argued against it.

    Saying "get over yourselves" isn't going to win you any debate here. These MMO-Lite games have a thesis around it that is hard to argue against. Its not edgy to label things, its human. Humans label things so they can understand them. Its like you want to ignore the very obvious thing these games are doing in order to preserve your nostalgia. 

    As I said, the thing about change is that it must happen. You don't need to accept it, you don't need to agree, it is here. I didn't do it, nobody here did it, there is no ego with this, we are just pointing it out in the face of those who say its stupid or edgy to label things, simply because they aren't ready to agree on what to label it as. Don't confuse expanding on a term with changing the meaning of the term.

    If those games give people a MMO experience they are not wrong for labeling it as one. These "Types" of games are here to stay a while. People are going to label them something, its human.

    Personally I think its still early and that's what the Resistance to the label is about. In 2-3 years nobody will fight that "MMO-lites" are a thing. Its going to be normalized. More of these games are coming. The games as a service trend may continue in a big way behind these types of games. 
    Post edited by klash2def on
    ApollosWillmmolou
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    mmolou said:
    klash2def said:

    MMO is much more than "Massively".


    No, just No.

    Ignoring the rest of what you posted, as it is irrelevant.

    MMO is not much more than Massively, at all.

    Massively Multiplayer Online.

    Massively is the most important word out of the three, nothing in MMO means more than the first M.
     
    Yes, just yes. I'm not going to ignore anything you posted I'm going to respond to it all.

    Explain Massively. Don't give me the book definition, I know what it is, give me what it means in the online gaming space. 

    If you only had the Massively part is it still a MMO?  How is it the most important then?

    Okay according to you, lets take away the multiplayer and online part. Lets take away raids, dungeons, guilds, gear tiers, pvp, character progression, persistent world.. take away all that stuff and you have nothing. Those things I just listed are the Multiplayer and Online parts. The most important parts of the term. That's the gameplay and experience part. Massively means nothing in online gaming today. It was used as a buzzword in the early 2000s. The only reason its there today is simply because it stuck and people don't get rid of terms that stick. This isn't about changing the term, its about expanding it.

    Massive is the least important part of the term. Funny that some vets put so much weight on it. The other things are the things that create the experience. Not Massive. 

    If you do those other things (Multiplayer Online) with 24 or 500 people you are having a "MMO" experience. MMO is a term that shouldn't be broken down the way you want to but if you do break it down..its hard to argue that massive means anything today especially over Multiplayer and Online.

    If you take everything WoW is and take everything Destiny is, they are fundamentally the same game just with different amounts of people per shard. Destiny and games like it are new information, and the reason why MMO needs to be expanded beyond the 2003 understanding. 
    mmolou
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,411
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:

    But Here we go again. This whole thing on what gets to be called MMO

    .....

    For his generation Destiny is Everquest.

    I love change.
    Oh c'mon you love this topic and you know it. You would barely post anything if it weren't for this subject.

    It gives you an opportunity to expand on your thesis that these everyday arguments are about liking/disliking change instead of what they really are: simply trying to change the meaning of a long established term for a type of game in decline to include a type of popular game that borrows a few things from MMOs. 

    Liking or disliking this type of game is irrelevant to how you label it... if you must label it. It's actually the totally unnecessary act of putting a label on it that limits it and detracts from the discussion about how good/bad the game is and self-derails discussions into trivial and pedantic off-topic horseshit when the author slaps it on the title like a putting a chip on his own shoulder and saying "come at me bro!"

    I personally could give less of a shit about Destiny or FO76 being an MMO or a sandbox. I only care about how the game plays.

    It's you and others who assign and defend these labels for games that could conceivably be shoehorned into fitting the labels, who think you're on the cutting edge of modern trends. And then you top it off by constantly saying that anyone who disagrees with your edgy labeling is just resisting change... you really got to get over yourselves.

    ah okay so calling these games something at all is "edgy" lol. "get over yourselves" how about tell that to the people who constantly tell people they simply can't label things. That's edgy to me. Trying to avoid labels. "I'm unique labels don't apply!" is the most edgy shit ever. You cant avoid labels in this life sorry to disappoint you. The reality is everything has a label. If one doesn't exist a new label will be made.  its just human.

    This isn't about changing the meaning of a term. Its about expanding its meaning because of new information.  That's what we do, we adapt and change when new information is presented. Its not edgy its common sense. Its amazing how common sense seems to be edgy to people now. You act as if somebody said MMO now means "Many Moon Oranges. That's changing the meaning of the term. Saying a game is MMO Lite is expanding the MMO term.  So relax big dog, nobody is changing the meaning of the OG term.

    This is funny to me though because you literally say "Liking or disliking this type of game" in your second paragraph. That implies that you know a label should exist.

    Why not label? what's wrong with labels? What do you suggest then if not called something? They have to be called something, even if just "Game". So the problem isn't the labeling, you don't agree with the labeling. That's the problem. 

    Have you played any of these games? Are you denying the similarities to MMO or is it "I don't give a shit" now because you cant argue against it anymore?  I personally never say it first... its always the response to people like yourself saying why it isn't or straight up calling people stupid for even making the suggestion. Nothing is edgy when its evident. I don't need to prove to anyone here that I'm on the cutting edge of tech, trust me.

    I only bring it up in defense of the people being called stupid (myself incl) because whoever doesn't agree with them. I explain why we aren't wrong for saying MMO. Again who are you or anyone else to tell people they cant label things they feel need labeling? Especially since the article itself refers to F76 as MMO and the first thing people say is "its not a mmo" well who are you kind sir to tell people they cant call it that? People who think like me will say "Well actually it is kinda a MMO, here is why" then that turns into more people like yourself attacking that person because they used a label they don't like. Not that its wrong fundamentally but because they hate the label.

    If people feel like these games should be called something, let them do it. Its not up to you and we aren't wrong for saying what we are experiencing. The reason you say " I don't give a shit" is because you feel it too, you just don't want to accept it because you are one of the people who have constantly argued against it.

    Saying "get over yourselves" isn't going to win you any debate here. These MMO-Lite games have a thesis around it that is hard to argue against. Its not edgy to label things, its human. Humans label things so they can understand them. Its like you want to ignore the very obvious thing these games are doing in order to preserve your nostalgia. 

    As I said, the thing about change is that it must happen. You don't need to accept it, you don't need to agree, it is here. I didn't do it, nobody here did it, there is no ego with this, we are just pointing it out in the face of those who say its stupid or edgy to label things, simply because they aren't ready to agree on what to label it as. Don't confuse expanding on a term with changing the meaning of the term.

    If those games give people a MMO experience they are not wrong for labeling it as one. These "Types" of games are here to stay a while. People are going to label them something, its human.

    Personally I think its still early and that's what the Resistance to the label is about. In 2-3 years nobody will fight that "MMO-lites" are a thing. Its going to be normalized. More of these games are coming. The games as a service trend may continue in a big way behind these types of games. 

    Pretty sure he was just pointing out how weird it was to be calling games mmos that are clearly not mmos. 

    ....
  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287
    klash2def said:
    mmolou said:
    klash2def said:

    MMO is much more than "Massively".


    No, just No.

    Ignoring the rest of what you posted, as it is irrelevant.

    MMO is not much more than Massively, at all.

    Massively Multiplayer Online.

    Massively is the most important word out of the three, nothing in MMO means more than the first M.
     
    Yes, just yes. I'm not going to ignore anything you posted I'm going to respond to it all.

    Explain Massively. Don't give me the book definition, I know what it is, give me what it means in the online gaming space. 

    If you only had the Massively part is it still a MMO?  How is it the most important then?

    Okay according to you, lets take away the multiplayer and online part. Lets take away raids, dungeons, guilds, gear tiers, pvp, character progression, persistent world.. take away all that stuff and you have nothing. Those things I just listed are the Multiplayer and Online parts. The most important parts of the term. That's the gameplay and experience part. Massively means nothing in online gaming today. It was used as a buzzword in the early 2000s. The only reason its there today is simply because it stuck and people don't get rid of terms that stick. This isn't about changing the term, its about expanding it.

    Massive is the least important part of the term. Funny that some vets put so much weight on it. The other things are the things that create the experience. Not Massive. 

    If you do those other things (Multiplayer Online) with 24 or 500 people you are having a "MMO" experience. MMO is a term that shouldn't be broken down the way you want to but if you do break it down..its hard to argue that massive means anything today especially over Multiplayer and Online.

    If you take everything WoW is and take everything Destiny is, they are fundamentally the same game just with different amounts of people per shard. Destiny and games like it are new information, and the reason why MMO needs to be expanded beyond the 2003 understanding. 
    CoD is Multiplayer Online
    Battlefield, Overwatch, WarThunder, Eternal Crusade all MO.

    Planetside2 is Massively Multiplayer.
    Defiance, ESO, WoW, all MMO.

    Do you see the theme? Do you see the difference in numbers of players possible in one world/instance/game space?

    That first "M" makes ALL the difference. The difference between 5v5, 10v10, 32v32, and 100v100...500v500, 300v300v300.

    Massively Multiplayer is very different to just Multiplayer. I fail to see how people don't see that. It seems self-evident to me. The only question, IMHO, remains "Where is the line between 'multiplayer' and 'massively multiplayer'. Personally, 32v32 is not a massive battle/encounter/gathering. Therefore, to me, a server with maximum population of 24 is not massively multiplayer. It is just multiplayer. Fallout 76 is, to me, an MORPG, not an MMORPG.

    Your definition of "massive" is clearly different to mine, and his/hers/theirs, and the dictionary's:

    massive
    /ˈmasɪv/
    adjective
    adjective: massive
    1. large and heavy or solid.
      "a massive rampart of stone"
      synonyms:huge, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, colossal, mammoth, vast, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian, substantial, extensive, hefty, bulky, weighty, heavy, gross; More
      informalmega, monster, whopping, whopping great, thumping, thumping great, humongous, jumbo, hulking, bumper, astronomical, astronomic;
      informalwhacking, whacking great, ginormous
      "these burial chambers were massive structures"
      antonyms:tiny
    2. exceptionally large.
      "massive crowds are expected"
    24 players is neither of the above.
    InteritusBluelinermmolouPhry
  • TacticalZombehTacticalZombeh Member UncommonPosts: 319
    edited November 2018
    klash2def said:


    Massive is the least important part of the term. Funny that some vets put so much weight on it. The other things are the things that create the experience. Not Massive. 

    If you do those other things (Multiplayer Online) with 24 or 500 people you are having a "MMO" experience. MMO is a term that shouldn't be broken down the way you want to but if you do break it down..its hard to argue that massive means anything today especially over Multiplayer and Online.

    If you take everything WoW is and take everything Destiny is, they are fundamentally the same game just with different amounts of people per shard. Destiny and games like it are new information, and the reason why MMO needs to be expanded beyond the 2003 understanding. 


    I'm not going to get into a big discussion. I just want to let you know that the 'massively' bit was part of the experience. If you don't get that, then *shrug*.
    mmolou
  • BananableBananable Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited November 2018
    "Discussion / Bill Murphy - Fallout 76 May Be the Sandbox MMO We've Been Waiting For"

    LOLZ
    Buy it, play it...then.

    Seriously, why you call it mmo? Because you need to convince lil kids to buy this...thing?

    Looking on other similar "games" im surprised why Bethesda decided to make it. 
    This looks like other "amazing" so called survival products.

    P.S. Also accoring reddit some modder (teetharejustdone) claims that it EASY to cheat in F76.

    P.S. 2  Cant wait Fallout/ElderScrolls BR!!!  :P
    TheScavenger
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