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Is Blizzard Out of Touch with Its Players?

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  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,018

    Raquis said:




    if you dont like the crap they give you- you are called a troll or a cry baby
    JeffSpicoliKalebGraysonRukushinMustikosTuor7
  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Member UncommonPosts: 160
    and Trion doesn't exist any more
    PottedPlant22
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,548
    Raquis said:

    Raquis said:




    if you dont like the crap they give you- you are called a troll or a cry baby
    That's because gaming journalism is almost exclusively comprised of pretentious fuckwits with a superiority complex and an incestuous codependence on the industry that they report on.
    alkarionlogLeiloniuriel_mafessRukushinMustikosTuor7TacticalZombeh
  • RnjypsyRnjypsy Member UncommonPosts: 64

    Cuppett5 said:

    Mobile phones or handhelds probably are the future of gaming.



    While this may or may not be true, neither that or the making of a mobile version of Diablo is the point. While I would have rather Blizzard develop it themselves I understand the opportunity the mobile market presents and the pressures to explore all viable methods to increase popularity and financial status around the world. That being said, it was their faithul PC gaming community they chose to announce this to as their sole offering at Blizzcon. Now, while the fans there were not children, imagine for just a moment. instead of giving your children Christmas...after a long and exciting build up through the holiday season and with no warning...you "surprise" them by buying Christmas for another unknown family without even a token stocking stuffer for them. How excited would you expect them to be?
    Tuor7
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    DMKano said:

    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.

    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.
    Blizzard isn't losing players over this particular fiasco, they just are not gaining them, i don't see that Diablo:immortal is going to be good business for Blizzard either, because while a number of people seem to think that the future of gaming is somehow mobile, it isn't and it probably never will be, its a sideshow at best.
    Thats why i don't think Diablo Immortal was worth showcasing at Blizzcon, it wasn't what people went there to see, nor do i think that many will be all that interested in the thing when it eventually releases, assuming it does.
    Blizzard fans are interested in certain games, more Diablo on PC, yes by all means, remastered Warcraft games, just do it already, Classic WoW hell yes, only lose the stupid sharding idea because thats just setting yourself up to fail. 

    Blizzard is already trying to win players back, but its not easy, if it was easy then BfA would not be in trouble to this degree, do you honestly think Classic would even be an option if BfA was successful? the game is still ticking over and it still has over a million players. 
    Blizzard are going to find it increasingly harder to win back players if they remain as out of touch with the playerbase as Blizzcon demonstrated they were. If there is one positive thing to draw from all this, is that Blizzard were blindsided so badly by the players reactions to Diablo:immortal, that it may shock them into a course correction.
    Personally i think Diablo:immortal will be canned, i think they will pull a titan on it and scrap it. :/
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,548
    Cuppett5 said:
    Mobile phones or handhelds probably are the future of gaming.
    Not until they improve their control method. They can have all of the graphical fidelity and convenience in the world, but until they adopt a more complex, intuitive control method than touch screen controls, they'll never evolve past their current limitations.
    PhryScorchienLeiloni
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    edited November 2018
    yea , there are alot of major differences in how Blizz( a public owned corp) and Trion (private) handle....

     There  IPs ...

       There marketing..

      There appraoch to Cash Shops

      There obligation to investors ..

      There community ..
      etc...
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,548
    DMKano said:

    DMKano said:


    natpick said:



    DMKano said:





    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.





    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.






    one time i would agree but not now the player base is not happy and many of them are older gamers,who are not stupid and will only put up with so much,ive played blizzard games since they existed,and never known them to be this bad in all things,imho there have lost touch big time.



    Once they announce Diablo4 - will you be interested in possibly playing that?



    Nope. Why? Because of the way they went against the complaints of the fan base and fucked up Diablo 3, that's why. I don't feel the developers currently employed by Blizzard have what it takes to make games on par with the classics that made their company what they are today. This utter bafflement over the negative reaction to Diablo immoral really hammers that feeling home.

    Ok what if Diablo 4 turns out to be good - like "Diablo 2 good"? 

    I bet that would change your mind.

    It's up to Blizzard to prove that they can make a compelling Diablo game - I think they can.
    I'll settle for it being Diablo 3 good. I liked Diablo 3. Blasphemy, I know.

    What I'm really hoping for is Diablo 2 with the combat polish of Diablo 3 and the addition of Diablo 3 runes (alongside the Diablo 2 systems) for more immediate customization.
  • qtaqqtaq Member UncommonPosts: 38
    WoW needs to clean house management wise period, the thought process of what they are doing and where they are going proves that over and over again. One can not expect much more from World of Warcraft, doesn't take much to figure out the platform this game uses is dated used up and has no where to go. When you get so big for your pants and you shut out the most important part of your process ( beta testers free of charge) then what is the point of having PTS. Epic fail BFA and to let Diablo fans down this way shows even more this company needs a change in management.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,467
    Cuppett5 said:
    Mobile phones or handhelds probably are the future of gaming.
    To me that is like going from a 54" TV to a 12"...I don't enjoy gaming on a phone or handheld at all....Its too small to enjoy.
    alyndalePhry
  • GravebladeGraveblade Member UncommonPosts: 494
    I do agree with people here saying that once more diablo products are announced then the backlash will likely die down a ton.

    This backlash was definitely a matter of blizzard handling things incredibly poorly, I mean sure make a mobile game that's fine, though a bit annoying that any amount of resources are going into it. Obviously it is not what people want for diablo at all, quite the opposite,

    For that reason I voted yes that they are out of touch.

    They are preaching a mobile game to a bunch of serious PC fans to an old IP. Not only is it an old IP, but I would argue that Diablo 1 & 2 are games that were part of defining pc gaming.

    To not speak about any other products and try to hype up a mobile game like this to this particular crowd is practically an insult. It's as if they think their fanbase is stupid and will get behind anything they do if they hype it enough.
    Gdemami
    Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,548
    I do agree with people here saying that once more diablo products are announced then the backlash will likely die down a ton.

    This backlash was definitely a matter of blizzard handling things incredibly poorly, I mean sure make a mobile game that's fine, though a bit annoying that any amount of resources are going into it. Obviously it is not what people want for diablo at all, quite the opposite,

    For that reason I voted yes that they are out of touch.

    They are preaching a mobile game to a bunch of serious PC fans to an old IP. Not only is it an old IP, but I would argue that Diablo 1 & 2 are games that were part of defining pc gaming.

    To not speak about any other products and try to hype up a mobile game like this to this particular crowd is practically an insult. It's as if they think their fanbase is stupid and will get behind anything they do if they hype it enough.
    That's the thing. I actually want a Diablo mobile game - in addition to a regular Diablo game. It's icing on the cake and can have a wonderful bleedover audience into the franchise proper. However, to announce the former without the latter is an egregious insult, and that's where my issue lies.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695
    DMKano said:
    natpick said:

    DMKano said:



    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.



    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.



    one time i would agree but not now the player base is not happy and many of them are older gamers,who are not stupid and will only put up with so much,ive played blizzard games since they existed,and never known them to be this bad in all things,imho there have lost touch big time.

    Once they announce Diablo4 - will you be interested in possibly playing that?

    Do you think the same people who are hissing a Blizzard now will say no to Diablo 4 because of a stupid grudge over Blizzcon mobile announcement? 

    Really now?
    Not all, they won't. But a percentage that would've pre-ordered would wait to see how it would turn out. And a very very small group would, yes, hold a grudge and lose their trust and stop caring. 

    People leave their spouses and children over stupid stuff, you think they won't stop buying a video game?

    Let's merge this into one thread though so if you reply on the other post I'll move it there as well. 
    Gdemami
    Constantine, The Console Poster

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  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,293






    While I agree that the announcement puts them squarely in the "out of touch" category. Creating the game itself does not. Reaching new markets is basic marketing strategy.






    Reaching new markets is of course basic strategy, but when you discard the interests of all your current users I don't think it's a good strategy. They are looking for other customers while ignoring the ones they have.

    I've been a Blizz fan for probably close to 20 years now, BUT this year I've started to slowly not care anymore.



    State of WoW - They have a lot of good ideas, but it appears that they are missing people who can realize them in their full potential, so the current state of the game is "meh".



    Heroes of the Storm - In my opinion it's a game that can easily have millions if not tens of millions of users, BUT they don't seem to care to fix their MM system. A lot of new players get put in ranks they don't belong and they get discouraged at the same time the old players are starting to get annoyed and quit. People who check HotS on stream feel like the game isn't that great because even top streamers who are in the Master/GM rank have a ton of "meh" game cause the MM system is really bad.



    Overwatch - I guess it's doing good. It's a shooter not really much you can do about it.



    Hearthstone - Horrible game, but easy money, so yeah... Don't really want to even talk about this one



    Diablo series - In the trash.



    Starcraft - underwhelming when you think what this game used to be.



    Warcraft series and especially Warcraft 3 ROC/TFT - In my opinion the game that put Blizzard on the spotlight. It has been ignored for so many years and we only get a remastared just now which is sad. I honestly expected a Warcraft 4 announcement. I'm sure that the game would've been a lot more popular than WoW especially with the custom maps fans make. A lot of people used to play Warcraft 3 just for the custom maps - DOTA/TDs/Hero Arenas etc etc....






    regarding warcraft 4 they just can't, they cramped the whole story on wow so they can't move on, the real question here is if people will be willing to replay war3


    DMKano said:




    DMKano said:



    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.



    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.


    Is this "it'll be okay if we chase the dollar harder cause the core fanbase will always be there" the same philosophy that worked out so well for Trion?



    Not even in the same league.

    Blizzard has 1000x more loyal fanbase than Trion could ever dream of.

    Please 



    love and hate are 2 side of the same coin, if they push too much they will lose they fans, and hard



    on the whole journalits attacking people, we can't trust on journalism, they make thing up to sell or don't even care to check if true, why you think the gamming section would be diferent?
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,883
    edited November 2018
    What do players expect when those leading gaming companies have little or no interest in gaming? Just look at the board of directors, even if you give them a pass on how few (any?) indicate any interest in gaming, look at how few have any background in developing games. Blizzard is not alone here, not sure any of the big gaming companies are different.

    https://www.activisionblizzard.com/uk/en/board-of-directors
    Life2vPhryGdemami

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,270
    DMKano said:
    Aeander said:
    Announcing a mobile game to people who have been waiting 4 (or 6) years for a mainline game? Yes, I'd say that's pretty fucking out of touch.

    Even if this was a mistep - how much buzz is being generated for Diablo Immortal? 

    The mobile playerbase doesn't care for Blizzards other products and they are finding out about a new mobile game for them right now.

    Hmmm.....

    Also it's going to be dead easy to win pissed off Blizzard core players back, as soon as they announce D4 - all will be back with open arms.

    Out of touch - or more brilliant than we realize?

    Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky at morning, sailor's heed  warning.

    Its a new Blizzard and there is a new captain sailing the ship.

    Nothing new... just remasters and a made in China mobile game.

    Brilliant? This debacle was masterminded?.

    lol... give me a break, my guts are hurting.
    PhryCazrielTacticalZombeh

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927

    DMKano said:


    natpick said:



    DMKano said:





    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.





    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.






    one time i would agree but not now the player base is not happy and many of them are older gamers,who are not stupid and will only put up with so much,ive played blizzard games since they existed,and never known them to be this bad in all things,imho there have lost touch big time.



    Once they announce Diablo4 - will you be interested in possibly playing that?

    Do you think the same people who are hissing a Blizzard now will say no to Diablo 4 because of a stupid grudge over Blizzcon mobile announcement? 

    Really now?



    Well for years my interest in diablo has been slowly dying. When they announce diablo 4... by then I would've moved to other games. Blizzard isn't the only company that's working on good games. Diablo 4? No idea but for now at least Last Epoch seems to me a lot more interesting when it comes to ARPG and there's also the ever-evolving Path of Exile.

    It's funny how the Blizzard stocks went up on 2nd November for Blizzcon probably before the news about the upcoming "games/content" cause after that it's been going down. Not by much, but I'm sure that no company likes having their stocks go down and knowing that this might be just the start since they took a big dump this Blizzcon, we will have to wait and see if Blizzard will regret this decision or not. Lower stock market prices = less investor/dare to risk = less good content/any content = well not good.
  • Cuppett5Cuppett5 Member UncommonPosts: 152
    Trust me I'm against mobile phones or handhelds but as technology gets better and the ease of playing anywhere and how people stare at their phones all day it will come to it. Especially how kids toys these days are their phones and Ipads. So much money can be made from it for these companies. Now he have Diablo: Immortal and Elder Scrolls: Blades. Famous streamer Ninja has a commercial playing FortNite on a Samsung Galaxy Note. I hate it too, but just the facts. 
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,050
    Is water wet?

    Did not look through comments....my bet is someone or multiple people already posted this.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • VhayneVhayne Member UncommonPosts: 632
    Man you guys defending this company.....lol wow.  Are you just here to argue with people or what?

    To those of you saying, "Diablo 4 will still come out".  You do realize how long it's been since we Diablo players have been provided a significant update right?  4 years.  The game is 6 years old.  And it was announced 4 years before release.

    Let's do a timeline...

    2008 - announcement
    2012 - release
    2013 - RoS announced
    2014 - RoS released


    So, pay attention now....if we go by these facts, and they haven't even announced D4 yet, then we are still FOUR years out.  4 years is a long time people.  We've already waited 4 years for a new expansion, and it didn't come.  So another 4 is just crazy.  


    Oh, perhaps we will get an announcement for it next Blizzcon?  Well then make that 5 years from now until we get a new Diablo game (and no I'm not calling this mobile crap a Diablo game).

    5 years might not be that long for some of you younger ones here.  But it's a long time for us older gamers.  

    By then it will have been ELEVEN years from D3 to D4.  
    ConstantineMerusSwampySackPhryCazrielMustikos
  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927












    While I agree that the announcement puts them squarely in the "out of touch" category. Creating the game itself does not. Reaching new markets is basic marketing strategy.









    Reaching new markets is of course basic strategy, but when you discard the interests of all your current users I don't think it's a good strategy. They are looking for other customers while ignoring the ones they have.


    I've been a Blizz fan for probably close to 20 years now, BUT this year I've started to slowly not care anymore.





    State of WoW - They have a lot of good ideas, but it appears that they are missing people who can realize them in their full potential, so the current state of the game is "meh".





    Heroes of the Storm - In my opinion it's a game that can easily have millions if not tens of millions of users, BUT they don't seem to care to fix their MM system. A lot of new players get put in ranks they don't belong and they get discouraged at the same time the old players are starting to get annoyed and quit. People who check HotS on stream feel like the game isn't that great because even top streamers who are in the Master/GM rank have a ton of "meh" game cause the MM system is really bad.





    Overwatch - I guess it's doing good. It's a shooter not really much you can do about it.





    Hearthstone - Horrible game, but easy money, so yeah... Don't really want to even talk about this one





    Diablo series - In the trash.





    Starcraft - underwhelming when you think what this game used to be.





    Warcraft series and especially Warcraft 3 ROC/TFT - In my opinion the game that put Blizzard on the spotlight. It has been ignored for so many years and we only get a remastared just now which is sad. I honestly expected a Warcraft 4 announcement. I'm sure that the game would've been a lot more popular than WoW especially with the custom maps fans make. A lot of people used to play Warcraft 3 just for the custom maps - DOTA/TDs/Hero Arenas etc etc....











    regarding warcraft 4 they just can't, they cramped the whole story on wow so they can't move on, the real question here is if people will be willing to replay war3





    DMKano said:








    DMKano said:





    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.





    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.




    Is this "it'll be okay if we chase the dollar harder cause the core fanbase will always be there" the same philosophy that worked out so well for Trion?





    Not even in the same league.

    Blizzard has 1000x more loyal fanbase than Trion could ever dream of.

    Please 






    love and hate are 2 side of the same coin, if they push too much they will lose they fans, and hard







    on the whole journalits attacking people, we can't trust on journalism, they make thing up to sell or don't even care to check if true, why you think the gamming section would be diferent?



    People will be more than happy to play WC3. If by replay you mean the campaign don't know and don't really care cause that's like nothing. WC3 is the ranked and custom games. That's the real game and there are more than enough players who would be happy to play it again. I personally will probably drop WoW and replace it with WC3. Also pretty sure we will see a lot of tournaments. There are Warcraft 3 tournaments even now with it's dated graphics. When they release it with the new graphics I'm 100% confident that we will see a lot of tournaments. Sure they might be by Blizzard, but it doesn't matter.
    As for the story for WC 4... didn't know WoW had any story. Since MoP the story has been all over the place literally pulling "story" out of their asses. I don't see what's the issue with making Warcraft 4 when they literally don't care about their story anymore. They can make up whatever they want and it will be fine. Heck Battle for Azeroth was a better idea for Warcraft 4 than WoW.
    Phry
  • bbates024bbates024 Member UncommonPosts: 99
    It's been a weird year for Diablo. I didn't expect D4 since Blizzard said not to but I expected something else. This year we've had Switch which might as well be a mobile device, and then a mobile game announced where Blizzard outsourced most of the work to another studio. If your into those games, or systems it was great news. If you're not into mobile gaming or Switch it was basically a non-event. I never thought I'd see people boo at Blizzcon though, so obviously they've upset some of their core customers. "You all have phones, right?" Might not have been the best tactic. 
    Phry
  • knightauditknightaudit Member UncommonPosts: 386
    With all the information out there on this, All i see of the Diablo Game is a shell of what it was and Could have been. This game is a reskin of an existing money grab. If Blizz had listened to what people want we would see a Diablo 4, or a World of Diablo, what we got was a cheap knock off for a phone. And that line about "Do you not have phones", what a way to talk down to the fanbase and the people who are your audience. I won't be buying this.
  • lucyluffy101lucyluffy101 Member UncommonPosts: 139
    Mobile games is bad for the eye. I guess they want gamer to buy eye glasses and also most mobile have camera, I guess they want to use it to spy gamers too.
    Mustikos
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,293












    While I agree that the announcement puts them squarely in the "out of touch" category. Creating the game itself does not. Reaching new markets is basic marketing strategy.









    Reaching new markets is of course basic strategy, but when you discard the interests of all your current users I don't think it's a good strategy. They are looking for other customers while ignoring the ones they have.


    I've been a Blizz fan for probably close to 20 years now, BUT this year I've started to slowly not care anymore.





    State of WoW - They have a lot of good ideas, but it appears that they are missing people who can realize them in their full potential, so the current state of the game is "meh".





    Heroes of the Storm - In my opinion it's a game that can easily have millions if not tens of millions of users, BUT they don't seem to care to fix their MM system. A lot of new players get put in ranks they don't belong and they get discouraged at the same time the old players are starting to get annoyed and quit. People who check HotS on stream feel like the game isn't that great because even top streamers who are in the Master/GM rank have a ton of "meh" game cause the MM system is really bad.





    Overwatch - I guess it's doing good. It's a shooter not really much you can do about it.





    Hearthstone - Horrible game, but easy money, so yeah... Don't really want to even talk about this one





    Diablo series - In the trash.





    Starcraft - underwhelming when you think what this game used to be.





    Warcraft series and especially Warcraft 3 ROC/TFT - In my opinion the game that put Blizzard on the spotlight. It has been ignored for so many years and we only get a remastared just now which is sad. I honestly expected a Warcraft 4 announcement. I'm sure that the game would've been a lot more popular than WoW especially with the custom maps fans make. A lot of people used to play Warcraft 3 just for the custom maps - DOTA/TDs/Hero Arenas etc etc....











    regarding warcraft 4 they just can't, they cramped the whole story on wow so they can't move on, the real question here is if people will be willing to replay war3





    DMKano said:








    DMKano said:





    Nobody is saying mobile markets won't make Blizzard money.  But you don't scorn the fanbase that built your company.





    You do if you know that they will take you back in a heartbeat as soon as you do something nice to them. 

    Do you honestly think that Blizzard is losing a significant % of players forever here?

    They are not.

    Again if this caused a permanent 30% players to never play a Blizzard game again - this would be something worth talking about.

    In reality - it's overblown nothing due to the fact of how easy it is for Blizzard to win everyone back.




    Is this "it'll be okay if we chase the dollar harder cause the core fanbase will always be there" the same philosophy that worked out so well for Trion?





    Not even in the same league.

    Blizzard has 1000x more loyal fanbase than Trion could ever dream of.

    Please 






    love and hate are 2 side of the same coin, if they push too much they will lose they fans, and hard







    on the whole journalits attacking people, we can't trust on journalism, they make thing up to sell or don't even care to check if true, why you think the gamming section would be diferent?



    People will be more than happy to play WC3. If by replay you mean the campaign don't know and don't really care cause that's like nothing. WC3 is the ranked and custom games. That's the real game and there are more than enough players who would be happy to play it again. I personally will probably drop WoW and replace it with WC3. Also pretty sure we will see a lot of tournaments. There are Warcraft 3 tournaments even now with it's dated graphics. When they release it with the new graphics I'm 100% confident that we will see a lot of tournaments. Sure they might be by Blizzard, but it doesn't matter.
    As for the story for WC 4... didn't know WoW had any story. Since MoP the story has been all over the place literally pulling "story" out of their asses. I don't see what's the issue with making Warcraft 4 when they literally don't care about their story anymore. They can make up whatever they want and it will be fine. Heck Battle for Azeroth was a better idea for Warcraft 4 than WoW.
    well the main custom on w3 was dota, but now we have several dota like around, even if the thing was teh normal game, the war 3 gameplay played around the heroes/generals, the army was like fillers, one single well placed hero ult could change the game, with is what mobas are today, so its a wait and see what happens.

    for people wating for a d4 care to tell me how much time it took from d2 to d3? and since d3 was worse, are you guys sure you want a d4? chances are it will be even worse then d3 is/was
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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