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Millions never had the chance for first generation.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,417
EverQuest had many flaws, I didn't last long because of the UI and AI.  Not using this for an excuse but a point.  Others talk of many flaws, huge amounts.  I actually had to fail to understand, my eyes are wide open. 

No one is taking into account "the marvels to put real people on the same screen BACK IN 1999".  You should appreciate this technology for its time.  This is the LARGEST part of the equation, yet it's been forgotten.  



Moving forward in time as AI and UI advanced.  First generation mmorpg's changed into Second generation, leaving all potential players of this type in the cold.  NEVER TO BE DONE AGAIN. 

Few played EverQuest, most didn't have internet back then. Internet sucked back then.  
Is EverQuest still around ?...… Sure it is both retail and original emulators.  But why would modern players play such a dated game. 

Pantheon makes first generation a new style of game !! 



Two potential problems: 
-Players can't get the word "old" out of their head.....They should stop that. 
-Visionary Realms could be designing from "old technology".
Post edited by delete5230 on
Gdemamiseraphis79bcbullyMaurgrim
«134567

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,035
    Billions even. The real question is how to generate interest in the masses for a game of this design.

    It is not true that if you build it, they will come.


    ConstantineMerusMrMelGibsonRobsolfTheocritusbcbully

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,417
    Kyleran said:
    Billions even. The real question is how to generate interest in the masses for a game of this design.

    It is not true that if you build it, they will come.


    Absolutely true, 
    Many stigmas attached.  
    GdemamiMaurgrim
  • RegnorRegnor Member UncommonPosts: 102
    What you are not taking into account is that there is a reason that MMOs evolved into subsequent generations. Harsh death penalties, forced grouping, lack of quests, these were all part of that first generation that some may look back on fondly, but most are glad to see left behind.

    If Pantheon is trying to rez 1st Gen MMOs, power to them and their few dozen players.
    KyleranGdemamiiamspamicusOctagon7711TorvalMrMelGibsondcutbi001Hatefullk61977bcbully

    Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,417
    edited October 2018
    Regnor said:
    What you are not taking into account is that there is a reason that MMOs evolved into subsequent generations. Harsh death penalties, forced grouping, lack of quests, these were all part of that first generation that some may look back on fondly, but most are glad to see left behind.

    If Pantheon is trying to rez 1st Gen MMOs, power to them and their few dozen players.
    Prove this !.... Were you part of a poll or something ? 

    True first generation was a style, and second generation was a more fun lite hearted style that would appeal to a large/larger group.  

    BUT First generation was stopped permanently by large companies.  It was and could be a very famous style again.  Infact it could easily overcome the crap we have now ( cash shop gambling). 


    Harsh death penalties.  Thank you for bring this to attention ! 
    It shows your thinking "old" game. Harsh Death penalties, can now have potency but in a modern less aggravating manor, but-harsh-none-the-less.
    GdemamiThunder073BrunlinMrMelGibsonmikeb0817mcd6993bcbully
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,043
    I remember walking into a computer shop and seeing this box well several actually with this beautiful woman in a turquoise robe, well not really a robe considering how little of it there was, looking at me. The drawing was lovely and it was embossed and I ran my hand over it.

    FileEverQuest Original Box Artjpg

    I was just trying out computer games and I decided to pick it up because I was so in love with fantasy stories. I practically inhaled fantasy books and I imagined myself in Shannara, Dragonlance or Xanth and I was fascinated to have this chance to play in this world. Having paid for it I hadn't a clue of what would become my obsession for several years.

    So I start playing knowing absolutely nothing I mean it was literally the very first online game I had ever played. I was completely bowled over and so much in love with the game I played it day and night (well that almost ruined my marriage) and I think I may have neglected my kids too for the game.

    The game was very demanding. I found myself afraid to log off for fear that I could not get back into the experience rich groups in the spots that were very scarce in the game. I was a wizard and was not playing a class like an enchanter or a cleric or warrior that were the classes the groups wanted and playing a class that was a dime a dozen groups became precious and difficult to come by and once you got into one you were loath to give it up. Sometimes I would wait in a queue for an hour even 2 hours for a spot.

    I'll explain how things worked on my server. You cannot simply just go anywhere you liked and get experience. People were everywhere and places were camped. They had a system that gave each group that controlled a spot the mobs that were theirs to claim that had been predetermined and if you poached you would get a bad reputation. Even the roaming mobs were divvied up and no one took mobs that spawned unless no group was camping them. Getting a spot can be arduous and long if it is deep in the dungeon. People don't just fight their way to a spot and then leave in one hour. That does not work because too much effort went into working your way there. So if you cannot commit a few hours preferably at least 3-4 hours don't bother. The experience gain was slow as hell and mind  you there were  even hell levels.. ask a ranger or paladin. If you died there and your group is unable to recover and is forced to leave you have 24 hours real time before your corpse decays and everything on your corpse is toast.

    Then there were powerful guilds that controlled certain lucrative spots and just kept rotating the camp between the guild members and denying other guilds and players from accessing those areas and the loot. The Planes were very hard and if you were not a member of a  guild capable of breaking into a plane and holding it then you would not even get a chance to get a date on the calender to raid said Plane. Many guilds allowed players from smaller guilds to join but not roll on the top loot that went to their guild only. It was a horrible system and one I truly hated in spite of belonging to one of the top two guilds on the server. I hated the unfairness and the bullying that went on. 

    I played Everquest for a long time and if you ask me now I will still say it is the best game I ever played but so many things about it made me hate the way the community handled the game and how they ran it like an oligarchy. If you ask me to play a game like that again my answer is 'no'.
    KyleranimmodiumTyranusPrimeInteritusJeffSpicoliOctagon7711kitaradTorvalGobstopper3Dk61977and 3 others.
    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,035
    edited October 2018
    I have to confess when WOW first launched I fully embraced the change it brought the genre.

    After many years of camp grinding through Lineage 1, DAOC, Shadowbane, and L2 (the ultimate grinder) I had grown very weary of it all. 

    WOWs quest based progression was enjoyable,  especially when playing solo, a play style which definitely wasn't fun in previous games where I primarily grouped to relieve boredom not to profess my character.

    Turns out there were down sides to the conveniences. My long time guild which formed from folks I played with in L1 quickly splintered into small cliques as we struggled to keep quests and dungeons in sync, which ultimately failed.

    I was committed to leveling my main with my then 12 yr old son so we quickly fell far behind and ended up reaching 60 together, but well behind most of the guild.

    Listening to them on voice chat struggling with early raid content, especially in light of the fragmentation the game's design created led us to quit and join a raiding guild. 

    This alienated many of my long time friends, even more so when we took down Ragnaros while they battled fruitlessly through the earlier bosses.

    Guild fell apart as more left to join raid guilds, feelings were  hurt everywhere and basically something good was lost then.

    I  quit WOW  for a while, my son joined a new raid guild that eventually tacked the horsemen, and when I returned it was on a new server with no one I knew.

    Which was the beginning of never playing with or making friends in games,  other players became just tools to reach in game goals.

    Yeah, there's no going back to those early days, I don't even want to anymore.
    ConstantineMerusOctagon7711MrMelGibsonBeezerbeezGobstopper3DPalebane

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,586
    edited October 2018
    Pantheon is the upcomming mmorpg that I follow the closest. Yet for all the information and pre alpha videos, it is not clear to me how the game will be hands on.
    There are different opinions of eq vets on what made eq great for them, and these translate directly into doubts about whether Pantheon will be the mmorpg for them.

    If we take the emulator and official progression server scene, you will get a purist crowd that prefer hardcore oldschool and tedious p1999, a slightly lesser purist who will play progression servers with QoL features (better client, instanced raids etc) but with the no boxing rule, then we have the crowd that find the prime era was PoP, and those who like the modern eq from OOW and onwards.

    What I think made eq the greatest mmorpg ever made is not the same things that other eq vets think. Sure we have common ground but then a lot of "what you think is awesome, is what I think is deeply problematic and needs to be modernized". I would put myself in the PoP era crowd and I don't enjoy p1999 very much because it lacks so much of what I find to be the most important eq inventions/evolution, while something like p2002 is awesome.
    Also I really can not play Eq anymore without boxing; in 1999 it was new and exciting and it was easier to forgive the extreme amount of doing nothing tasks that comes with playing one character and being 100% relying on a group plus the very low actions-per-minute of operating just one character. Lets be clear, I love grouping and the best experiences comes with others, I always drop boxes when someone wants to join, but I can't do it everyday all day. Anyways so for me the perfect Eq experience has been p2002 because it is reasonably modern with QoL, has a 3 box limit which is the perfect balance where you can do some stuff when no one to group with but not onegroup the entire game, and it goes to PoP, well I would have loved to get lDON too (and I tried it all, played from 1999-2004, again in 2007 and 2012, two progression servers up to PoP, p1999, p2002, TGC emu with 12 box raiding with 3 other 6-12 boxers, 1000+ days /played combined).

    tMy point is the Pantheon I hope for is not the same a p1999 purist want, even though we both claim that eq is the best mmorpg so far in history..and that is where the whole problem lies - In my opinion a Pantheon mmorpg can't survive on the purist crowd though they are a loud minority and also the fiercest backers. It will NEED to cater to new players, and they will not tolerate a modern eq type of game without substantial improvements to a horde of issues, and the QoL that purists are so much in opposition to.

    So on a broader scale, my fears that Pantheon might fail to speak to me personally, and really only hands on will show + a year to adjust from launch:
    - Can they capture the free spirit of Eq or will they fall into the story driven trap. Or boiled down to, will I create my own stories through my actions, choices, adventures, playstyle or will I be herded and stabled into overdesigned content/experiences. Freedom, a very elusive concept that crosses into all areas of the game. This by far the most important for me.
    - Will it be such a group centric game that the above mentioned freedom dissapear. Seem to me there is a risk that they are narrowed in on combat group play to such a degree that they are blind to the other less restricting ways to create social interaction. Also, it sound like they think players bring real life friends like if it was a tabletop session, and that is not how many players in 2018 play games.
    - Will it be a big mmorpg? As in will it have the right amount of difficulty, enough content and clever enough systems to keep players engaged past a 2-3 month mark? And of course on that note will it grow and evolve fast and sufficiently enough to keep up interest.
    - Will it escape the "old" stigma, that this is just a eq renake for eq vets. I mean I certainly don't want a modern eq copy, I want a modern mmorpg based on the spirit of eq, and that is also what will attract new players. The thing is that many mmorpg players are frustrated with how so called mmos are today, but they can't quite put into words what it is they are missing because they only know the WoW way; Pantheon may give them that, but only if it is not regarded as a game for old people..and a eq copy will definately scream "old people game",

    and there we have it..create in the spirit of eq, not the actual eq.





    WellspringKyleranetlardelete5230BeezerbeezGobstopper3DKnytta
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 793
    I believe players will need to adjust the way they think about Pantheon, as opposed to other MMOs.  The game requires a group to get anywhere.  That will be a huge hurdle for people to get over.
    Waan
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,918
    edited October 2018
    Kyleran said:
    I have to confess when WOW first launched I fully embraced the change it brought the genre.


    I didn't really embrace it (only played in one beta and when I did buy the game at launch I only logged in a few times) but I loved the idea of "the quest" and framing one's activities with a story.

    However, when I would stake a quest, say, to kill 10 of these pumpkin thingies in a farmer's field, I would stay and continue beyond the 10 kills.

    It seems that some games literally have you collecting or killing 3 and then running back (or just completing the quest).

    That's not fun. That's why I've pretty much given up on quests.

    I've been playing a little bit of Lord of the Rings Online and though I have stopped most of the quests, I had a blast trying to find my way to Gondor. It seems there is a large orc infestation in the way so I had to fight my way through (which was two nights worth) and then when I couldn't seem to find the road I jumped in the water which immediately took away 2000 hp every 2 or so seconds (hate when developers do this just to keep lower level people out).

    Because of my regen it wasn't a big deal and I finally found myself on a bank where I could continue to Gondor. Then there was a small quest which I now regret taking but I want to experience the "end" so decided to do some of the quests.

    Point is, I want to go on an adventure and in my play sessions that's what I do. I had more fun making my way to Gondor than going to some quest hub and marking off the quests. These little busy work tasks that infest these games ruin it.
    EronakisPalebane



  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 4,916
    While you are correct, that there is a playerbase now that has never tried the oldschool variety of MMORPG. But the question remains whether or not they want to play that type of MMO. There's a reason those games don't exist anymore in a major sense, and when they do they are extremely niche and hold a small population. 

    To generate interest, you need some hook. If the hook is, THIS GAME IS LIKE THE OLD GAMES you aren't going to get much hype. Sure, all of the older MMO players who want to play that type of game will go back, but not the people who never had an interest to begin with. 

    I hope you are right, and somehow Pantheon brings MILLIONS of new players to it, but I'm not going to hype myself for something like that when a majority of players aren't interested in that type of game. 

    Sure you can poll players on here and get an idea of what an MMORPG forum that consists of older players wants, which won't be a good representation of the community at large. Just our community. 
    Octagon7711
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,559
    And very few people will want to go back.  I backed Pantheon; but holy shit I cannot WAIT for all the people who clamor for this game's release and swear they want a totally faithful EQ replica to start bitching and moaning when they can't progress their character because there's not enough people with the right class online in their level range etc etc etc. and realize how wrong they are.
    KyleranOctagon7711
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,918
    And very few people will want to go back.  I backed Pantheon; but holy shit I cannot WAIT for all the people who clamor for this game's release and swear they want a totally faithful EQ replica to start bitching and moaning when they can't progress their character because there's not enough people with the right class online in their level range etc etc etc. and realize how wrong they are.
    That seems really petty. Really? You want people to have a bad time and bitch and moan?

    If the devs do their job right then there should be several ways to put a party together. I recall once in Lineage 2 that a lot of spellhowlers couldn't find a party so they all partied together and were very successful in the Tower of Insolence where they pretty much just mowed things down before the party was in danger.

    unorthodox parties can be possible. But again, the developers need to make it so it's possible.
    Gdemami



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 7,874
    edited October 2018
    Kyleran said:
    I have to confess when WOW first launched I fully embraced the change it brought the genre.

    After many years of camp grinding through Lineage 1, DAOC, Shadowbane, and L2 (the ultimate grinder) I had grown very weary of it all. 

    WOWs quest based progression was enjoyable,  especially when playing solo, a play style which definitely wasn't fun in previous games where I primarily grouped to relieve boredom not to profess my character.

    Turns out there were down sides to the conveniences. My long time guild which formed from folks I played with in L1 quickly splintered into small cliques as we struggled to keep quests and dungeons in sync, which ultimately failed.

    I was committed to leveling my main with my then 12 yr old son so we quickly fell far behind and ended up reaching 60 together, but well behind most of the guild.

    Listening to them on voice chat struggling with early raid content, especially in light of the fragmentation the game's design created led us to quit and join a raiding guild. 

    This alienated many of my long time friends, even more so when we took down Ragnaros while they battled fruitlessly through the earlier bosses.

    Guild fell apart as more left to join raid guilds, feelings were  hurt everywhere and basically something good was lost then.

    I  quit WOW  for a while, my son joined a new raid guild that eventually tacked the horsemen, and when I returned it was on a new server with no one I knew.

    Which was the beginning of never playing with or making friends in games,  other players became just tools to reach in game goals.

    Yeah, there's no going back to those early days, I don't even want to anymore.
    I don't think anyone should be clamoring to merely mimic those classic MMORPGs without looking for a way to bring them into the modern era.

    Look to the cRPG genre for a good framework on how to leverage "old school" design philosophies without creating an archaic and dated gameplay experience.  Larian, Obsidian, inXile are all studios showing us that yes, you can include complex skill systems and focus on world interactivity to help tell a compelling RPG story without having to rely on over-the-top action sequences and cutscenes to attract fans.

    In the same manner, yes, you can include and focus on complex skill/class systems and player interactivity in an MMORPG, but you can't just copy pasta the way devs did it decades ago and expect players today to laud the effort.
    Palebane

    image
  • RukushinRukushin Member UncommonPosts: 294
    Quite a few people keep saying that the "old" style of MMOs will only appeal to a dozen or so gamers and that there is a "reason those games are old and died". That many new players don't care for that style of game, but I beg to differ. 

    I did not play Everquest 1 or Lineage or even Vanilla WoW. I started MMOs on The Matrix Online and then came into WoW at the start of Burning Crusade. My first experience with Vanilla WoW has been with private servers. I cannot wait for something like Pantheon because I WANT to experience the old school, uncompromising, but immensely complex nature of the "old" style MMO.  This is simply because I am tired of what new MMOs have become. I've listened to friends who talk of EQ1 and my first thought is "my god! This game was so ahead of it's time!". Honestly, in some ways I think it's still ahead of this current time and it's what? 18 years later? That's kind of sad honestly. 

    My point is that I think this is just perfect timing for "old" style MMOs to come back. I do not think I am alone in my thoughts that, "Hey, I may not consider myself to be one of the super oldschool, back in my day types, but maybe those "oldschool" guys have a point." Frankly, what have we got to lose? MMOs are just tired and uninspired for the last 8 years, that's probably being generous...very generous, and if getting more complexity means dealing with harsh systems then so be it. I'm willing to sacrifice my sanity if it means I will get an MMO that can hold me for years. 
    delete5230kjempffGdemamimcd6993
  • WizbuizWizbuiz Member UncommonPosts: 142
    u just cant suck at graphic designs in 2019... EQ was on top of the game with 3D and great graphics for time, thinking u can make a likewise game in a time "the graphic will be considered bad just wont do it justice, ill rather play Magic:Gathering Arena then lol. I remember my Wizard when he was about to throw that ice comet, the spectacle was amazing at the time.. made me feel immersed.
    Octagon7711
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 2,843
    Millions more won't live long enough to see the 2 generations of gaming beyond the current one.  Then again, I never had to rely on horses to get to town, and fast food places cooked food for me.  Looking to the past for the future of games because some people missed out isn't smart.  It is the realm of historians and eventually archaeologists.  How about just appreciate what you have while you're here, and let the rest sort itself out?



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AmatheAmathe Member EpicPosts: 4,555
    Everquest was so much more than the sum of its parts. You can't just tally its features or open it up like a frog in biology class and expect to understand. Nor will you get it in 6 levels.

    There was a relationship in EQ between players and other players, and between players and their world, which was the blended result of all the many design elements that people now want to change. 

    If you take too many of those elements out, what you get is another generic WoW clone.

    EQ's challenges compelled people to make friends because you really, really needed friends for a 100 reasons. That in turn created a society that I seldom encounter anymore in the modern world of individualists.

    The goal here is not to copy and paste Everquest. It is to offer up a fresh new opportunity to experience friendship driven, mutually dependent adventure in a world that will push back when explored rather than just act as a trail of breadcrumbs between EZ mode xp quests.
    WellspringJeffSpicolidelete5230wesjrGdemamimcd6993Aelious

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • InteritusInteritus Member UncommonPosts: 236
    But it's more than just gameplay, or even art style. You can't recreate the sheer awe of walking into a place like Greater Faydark.  Massive, open, visually impressive spaces are a dime a dozen now. Back then they were new and amazing.

    PalebaneKnytta
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,918
    edited October 2018
    Regnor said:
    What you are not taking into account is that there is a reason that MMOs evolved into subsequent generations. Harsh death penalties, forced grouping, lack of quests, these were all part of that first generation that some may look back on fondly, but most are glad to see left behind.

    If Pantheon is trying to rez 1st Gen MMOs, power to them and their few dozen players.
    I don't think that's entirely correct.

    It's not like mmo's evolved with the same group of people but that there were some developers who wanted to do things differently and that effort drew a completely different crowd of people to (mostly) one game.

    Then other studios saw this, wanted the same piece of the pie and started developing their games in a similar fashion. This pretty much leaves behind the initial group of people who would have loved to see their games evolve in ways that were interesting to them.

    I'm not saying the early games were perfect but they certainly didn't take their core ideas and evolve to make their games better. Any changes drew inspiration from the World of Warcraft style of game which in some cases weren't congruent with the game that was being changed.




    kjempffGdemami



  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Amathe said:
    Everquest was so much more than the sum of its parts. You can't just tally its features or open it up like a frog in biology class and expect to understand. Nor will you get it in 6 levels.

    There was a relationship in EQ between players and other players, and between players and their world, which was the blended result of all the many design elements that people now want to change. 

    If you take too many of those elements out, what you get is another generic WoW clone.

    EQ's challenges compelled people to make friends because you really, really needed friends for a 100 reasons. That in turn created a society that I seldom encounter anymore in the modern world of individualists.

    The goal here is not to copy and paste Everquest. It is to offer up a fresh new opportunity to experience friendship driven, mutually dependent adventure in a world that will push back when explored rather than just act as a trail of breadcrumbs between EZ mode xp quests.
    ^^ This.

    Preach it @Amathe!
    Amathedelete5230
    --------------------------------------------
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,559
    Sovrath said:
    And very few people will want to go back.  I backed Pantheon; but holy shit I cannot WAIT for all the people who clamor for this game's release and swear they want a totally faithful EQ replica to start bitching and moaning when they can't progress their character because there's not enough people with the right class online in their level range etc etc etc. and realize how wrong they are.
    That seems really petty. Really? You want people to have a bad time and bitch and moan?

    If the devs do their job right then there should be several ways to put a party together. I recall once in Lineage 2 that a lot of spellhowlers couldn't find a party so they all partied together and were very successful in the Tower of Insolence where they pretty much just mowed things down before the party was in danger.

    unorthodox parties can be possible. But again, the developers need to make it so it's possible.
    So that they finally have some sort of closure on the whole "Old school was so much better" soapbox BS.  Time to put your (not you specifically) money where your mouth is, so to speak.  

    I played all those old games back in their respective heyday, and I do reference them regularly....but I don't constantly wax poetic about how perfect they were and how today's games are complete failures by comparison.
  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 122
    Do you even have a point? When writing, you should follow basic sentence structure. A beginning to outline your point, supporting facts / opinions, summarization and closing.

    Everquest didn't last long is laughable to the extreme. Everquest is the 2nd longest running graphical MMO. It has survived the changing of ownership 3 times (although I would admit that Daybreak has ruined and will kill it), and has a vibrant emu community.


    Prepared
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,918
    Sovrath said:
    And very few people will want to go back.  I backed Pantheon; but holy shit I cannot WAIT for all the people who clamor for this game's release and swear they want a totally faithful EQ replica to start bitching and moaning when they can't progress their character because there's not enough people with the right class online in their level range etc etc etc. and realize how wrong they are.
    That seems really petty. Really? You want people to have a bad time and bitch and moan?

    If the devs do their job right then there should be several ways to put a party together. I recall once in Lineage 2 that a lot of spellhowlers couldn't find a party so they all partied together and were very successful in the Tower of Insolence where they pretty much just mowed things down before the party was in danger.

    unorthodox parties can be possible. But again, the developers need to make it so it's possible.
    So that they finally have some sort of closure on the whole "Old school was so much better" soapbox BS. 
    yeah but let's not buy into those with extremist opinions.

    First of all, the whole "Old School was so much better" idea is true. But to them.

    But anyone saying that those games are categorically better than anything on the market and that those who don't agree with them are "wrong" are fringe people. Just like those who say the opposite and that those old games are categorically bad and that no one in their right mind would like them or the "rose colored glasses" argument.

    If someone stands on a soapbox, it's exactly that "a soapbox."

    Let's not get caught up in ridiculous nerd pissing matches just because a few people are more intense than they should be about video games.
    GdemamiGobstopper3D



  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,586
    Sovrath said:

    unorthodox parties can be possible. But again, the developers need to make it so it's possible.
    This is exactly the point.. Will they, can they create the environment (systems/mechanics/skills/world design) for such emergent gameplay that we saw in eq. I hope so, but it is so hard to do on purpose, and at the same time let it go out of your(the developer) control.
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,559
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    And very few people will want to go back.  I backed Pantheon; but holy shit I cannot WAIT for all the people who clamor for this game's release and swear they want a totally faithful EQ replica to start bitching and moaning when they can't progress their character because there's not enough people with the right class online in their level range etc etc etc. and realize how wrong they are.
    That seems really petty. Really? You want people to have a bad time and bitch and moan?

    If the devs do their job right then there should be several ways to put a party together. I recall once in Lineage 2 that a lot of spellhowlers couldn't find a party so they all partied together and were very successful in the Tower of Insolence where they pretty much just mowed things down before the party was in danger.

    unorthodox parties can be possible. But again, the developers need to make it so it's possible.
    So that they finally have some sort of closure on the whole "Old school was so much better" soapbox BS. 
    yeah but let's not buy into those with extremist opinions.

    First of all, the whole "Old School was so much better" idea is true. But to them.

    But anyone saying that those games are categorically better than anything on the market and that those who don't agree with them are "wrong" are fringe people. Just like those who say the opposite and that those old games are categorically bad and that no one in their right mind would like them or the "rose colored glasses" argument.

    If someone stands on a soapbox, it's exactly that "a soapbox."

    Let's not get caught up in ridiculous nerd pissing matches just because a few people are more intense than they should be about video games.
    I mean, I backed Pantheon....so it's not that I am uninterested in the idea of a more old-school approach.  

    It just gets old listening to so many people like myself who have experienced it claim that it was the pinnacle of gaming or something.  

    I think Pantheon will provide a rare opportunity to finally put all that to the test and provide some perspective.

    You are definitely correct in that it should not bother me; thanks for pointing that out.
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