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Big reason why community got worst in MMORPG...

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,509
    edited October 14
    Ungood said:
    Ya know @AIBQuirky I have no idea how what you said, relates to what I said, and quite frankly, I am not in the mood to try and figure it out.

    If you want to explain how you thought they relate, fine, if not, again fine.
    You said, "I blame MMO developers..." I disagree because players appear to want exactly what they push out., thus, "Players can stop paying and playing."

    You went on to elaborate quite a lot, I made my reply simple. What's not to understand?
    Post edited by AlBQuirky on
    Torval

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,470
    I personally enjoyed slow leveling. Gives you opportunity to hang with same groups of people in the same areas. Seems to me that everyone is just in a hurry to reach end game. Most of the time once you reach that point then you are bored. 

    I remember waiting in zones to group up and actually having some of the funniest conversation with people. Come back to that zone a day or two later and find some of the same people and have great conversations and hunting again. Leveling is so quick now that you really don't have time to get to know anyone before they are leveled way beyond you. I am a casual player and that could have something to do with it but EQ was some of my most entertaining times with a community in an MMO.
    Welcome to our boards!

    Well to posting anyway. :)

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  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,526
    AlBQuirky said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know @AIBQuirky I have no idea how what you said, relates to what I said, and quite frankly, I am not in the mood to try and figure it out.

    If you want to explain how you thought they relate, fine, if not, again fine.
    You said, "I blame MMO developers..." I disagree because players appear to want exactly what they push out., thus, "Players can stop paying and playing."

    You went on to elaborate quite a lot, I made my reply simple. What's not to understand?
    Yah. reading past that first line might have enlightened you, that you are mainly agreeing with my point, not disagreeing. Which is why your post may no sense to me.

    But.. the simple answer is, you didn't read my post.. got it. 
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,509
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know @AIBQuirky I have no idea how what you said, relates to what I said, and quite frankly, I am not in the mood to try and figure it out.

    If you want to explain how you thought they relate, fine, if not, again fine.
    You said, "I blame MMO developers..." I disagree because players appear to want exactly what they push out., thus, "Players can stop paying and playing."

    You went on to elaborate quite a lot, I made my reply simple. What's not to understand?
    Yah. reading past that first line might have enlightened you, that you are mainly agreeing with my point, not disagreeing. Which is why your post may no sense to me.

    But.. the simple answer is, you didn't read my post.. got it. 
    Interesting. I just re-read it and nothing in there says players are to blame. It's all about the devs decisions.

    My point was simply that players keep playing and paying. If MMOs didn't make money from us players, they'd be shut down, right?

    Not really what you said at all, is it?
    Jean-Luc_PicardTorval

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,526
    AlBQuirky said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know @AIBQuirky I have no idea how what you said, relates to what I said, and quite frankly, I am not in the mood to try and figure it out.

    If you want to explain how you thought they relate, fine, if not, again fine.
    You said, "I blame MMO developers..." I disagree because players appear to want exactly what they push out., thus, "Players can stop paying and playing."

    You went on to elaborate quite a lot, I made my reply simple. What's not to understand?
    Yah. reading past that first line might have enlightened you, that you are mainly agreeing with my point, not disagreeing. Which is why your post may no sense to me.

    But.. the simple answer is, you didn't read my post.. got it. 
    Interesting. I just re-read it and nothing in there says players are to blame. It's all about the devs decisions.

    My point was simply that players keep playing and paying. If MMOs didn't make money from us players, they'd be shut down, right?

    Not really what you said at all, is it?
    Doesn't disagree with what I said either, in fact, it's really does not relate much at all, which was my original confusion, and this exchange has offered me no clarity in how you thought the two points relate.

    But, just for academia, by your logic, what everyone really wants is a McDonald's burger served stuffed in a bag with open box of fries dumped on it because people obviously buy it and buy it a lot, and that no one wants to sit down to a prime rib steak with a tall pilsner of ale because Steak and Ale Closed.

    Yah.. well we shall disagree.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • SyanisSyanis Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Fairly simple but a few key points.
    1. Old school gamer's were geeks and most weren't looking to *win* but to have an adventure on and for them winning wasn't even a concept but simply progressing on an adventure. These are the kinds of people who would play D&D pen and paper with buddies. 

    New gamer's are about winning and beating everything. Give them sweet phat lewts so they can brag except everyone else has the same thing. Its not an adventure to them but a hated boring grind until they get their top status which isn't really top as its shared with 99% of the rest of the playerbase.

    2. Hardcore gamers before vs casual gamer's today. This isn't a time concept but a mentality more so. The hardcore gamer of before strove to accomplish hard tasks and try new and interesting things. They pushed the limits and were willing to wait patiently to reach the current goal they set. Casual gamer's of today have no patience and the only goal they set is *winning* and getting to the top as fast as possible. They don't want to wait for anything be it levels, gear, achievements, or anything. Casuals of today if they can't get a level a day the game sucks hard while in the old days hardcore players were fine with it taking days or even weeks to achieve the next level or achieve one goal. 

    This change of what was the majority of players and catering to casuals who just demand instant gratification and don't enjoy the journey is what ruibed mmorpg's and the communities with them.

    Ask yourself of your fond memories in mmorpg's. Do you have any big fond memories while leveling especially with friends? Did you ever try the nonsensical and impossible just because it would be fun? In EQ1 most of my best memories were under level 20. In DAoC most of my best memories were under 40. WoW classic, most of my best memories again under 40. Every one of those games I reached endgame content and top or near top endgame content but the journey up was the fun. 
    AlBQuirkyVestigeGamerceratop001
  • btdtbtdt Member UncommonPosts: 386
    Yet another nostalgia thread...

    Back in the day, I used to walk to school, up hill, in the snow, both ways, while carrying 40 books.

    Today people drive themselves to school and use the internet as textbooks.

    Notice how similar those two realities are?  They aren't.

    What YOU did in a video game 10 years ago or so is not the same thing that someone else is doing in a video game today.  Stop comparing the past to now. 

    Hell most of us were awestruck by pong for god's sake.  Today's kids laugh at that.  In another 20 years, these same kids that think we are all from the stone age will be laughed at by the next generation of gamers.  It's called life.  

    Instead of trying to figure out what went wrong, embrace the future like you embraced pong.  It's something new and new things are different for a reason.  You keep trying to hold on to the past and all you will have is pong.

    Community didn't change, people's need for community changed.  Just as video games changed.

    Rocket science my friend... rocket science.


    AlBQuirkyTorval
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,358
    Syanis said:
    Fairly simple but a few key points.
    1. Old school gamer's were geeks and most weren't looking to *win* but to have an adventure on and for them winning wasn't even a concept but simply progressing on an adventure. These are the kinds of people who would play D&D pen and paper with buddies. 

    New gamer's are about winning and beating everything. Give them sweet phat lewts so they can brag except everyone else has the same thing. Its not an adventure to them but a hated boring grind until they get their top status which isn't really top as its shared with 99% of the rest of the playerbase.

    2. Hardcore gamers before vs casual gamer's today. This isn't a time concept but a mentality more so. The hardcore gamer of before strove to accomplish hard tasks and try new and interesting things. They pushed the limits and were willing to wait patiently to reach the current goal they set. Casual gamer's of today have no patience and the only goal they set is *winning* and getting to the top as fast as possible. They don't want to wait for anything be it levels, gear, achievements, or anything. Casuals of today if they can't get a level a day the game sucks hard while in the old days hardcore players were fine with it taking days or even weeks to achieve the next level or achieve one goal. 

    This change of what was the majority of players and catering to casuals who just demand instant gratification and don't enjoy the journey is what ruibed mmorpg's and the communities with them.

    Ask yourself of your fond memories in mmorpg's. Do you have any big fond memories while leveling especially with friends? Did you ever try the nonsensical and impossible just because it would be fun? In EQ1 most of my best memories were under level 20. In DAoC most of my best memories were under 40. WoW classic, most of my best memories again under 40. Every one of those games I reached endgame content and top or near top endgame content but the journey up was the fun. 

    Goonsquad, does not approve of these comments.

    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,509
    btdt said:
    Yet another nostalgia thread...

    Back in the day, I used to walk to school, up hill, in the snow, both ways, while carrying 40 books.

    Today people drive themselves to school and use the internet as textbooks.

    Notice how similar those two realities are?  They aren't.

    What YOU did in a video game 10 years ago or so is not the same thing that someone else is doing in a video game today.  Stop comparing the past to now. 

    Hell most of us were awestruck by pong for god's sake.  Today's kids laugh at that.  In another 20 years, these same kids that think we are all from the stone age will be laughed at by the next generation of gamers.  It's called life.  

    Instead of trying to figure out what went wrong, embrace the future like you embraced pong.  It's something new and new things are different for a reason.  You keep trying to hold on to the past and all you will have is pong.

    Community didn't change, people's need for community changed.  Just as video games changed.

    Rocket science my friend... rocket science.
    What? Isn't this exactly what the whole is about? Then vs Now? How things have changed?

    Nostalgia, my ass. I enjoyed back then and would like i to make a come back.

    You seem to think that ALL change is good and "innovative progression." Good for you as you'll never be disappointed and agree with everything that happens in the future. "Embrace the CHANGE!"

    You know back when kids walked to school, gyms were non-existent. People actually worked their muscles doing daily routines. Now, some feel the need to pay to work out. Others just get fatter. We actually have to encourage kids to go outside and PLAY, for goodness sake. In the US, ad campaigns abound trying to get kids to PLAY.  Progress.... yay...
    VestigeGamer

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • DarkswormDarksworm Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Millennials.

    It sounds crude.  But they are a demographic that has different priorities than Gen X or Boomers.

    I think we're seeing, more starkly, how this is changing gaming communities when you look at games like Overwatch, for example (not an MMORPG, but still very relevant to the discussion).
    VestigeGamer
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 394
    This is just my opinion but players are too divided. 

    I know at least in UO and EQ players tended to be around for different reasons.

    In EQ leveling was slow so you could expect to bump into the same players for a while.  It allowed you to group and form friendships.  Also slow combat also allowed you to assist players.  You also saw higher level players in newbie zones leveling.  Buffs and items could be given to lower level players 

    In UO players formed communities around player housing and npc cities.  You may port off to adventure but players tended to hang in whatever city they liked because there was no "high level" city.  Each city functioned as hub closer to real life.

    I think games moving forward would benefit from getting players to just adventure and hang around the same players. Seems simple but these days you blow through content and zones daily.  The only meet up spots are big cities which usually are about as interactive as big city in real life. Don't be afraid to allow players to interact with buffs and ports amd the like.
    Gameplay dictates where players are located, if there is profit or fun to be had, those areas will almost always be populated.Cities are safe zones in most part which allow players to queue for dungeons and carebear.

    I for one am for fully utilising entire maps of mmorpgs since most of the worlds are beautifull and much care was put into making them to be empty, so content should be spread around the maps related to trading, questing, grinding and bosses and events instead of allowing players to lose interest of traveling.

    And related to the very gaming community, mmorpg's will always have much more mature players and those who are having fun just like you, people you can enjoy your time with and band together, compared to moba and fps online games where there is a lot younger audience and you might encounter toxicity.

    In over 10 years of mmorpg's i have only ever encountered about a dozen truly toxic people, you could compare that with real life.

    MMORPG's should never die, and they will not, as people really enjoy this type of genre, there will always be market for developers to build upon.
  • Hidden_EntityHidden_Entity Member UncommonPosts: 99
    This is just my opinion but players are too divided. 

    I know at least in UO and EQ players tended to be around for different reasons.

    In EQ leveling was slow so you could expect to bump into the same players for a while.  It allowed you to group and form friendships.  Also slow combat also allowed you to assist players.  You also saw higher level players in newbie zones leveling.  Buffs and items could be given to lower level players 

    In UO players formed communities around player housing and npc cities.  You may port off to adventure but players tended to hang in whatever city they liked because there was no "high level" city.  Each city functioned as hub closer to real life.

    I think games moving forward would benefit from getting players to just adventure and hang around the same players. Seems simple but these days you blow through content and zones daily.  The only meet up spots are big cities which usually are about as interactive as big city in real life. Don't be afraid to allow players to interact with buffs and ports amd the like.
    You mean the social aspect and not the toxicity ?
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member UncommonPosts: 841
    This is just my opinion but players are too divided. 

    I know at least in UO and EQ players tended to be around for different reasons.

    In EQ leveling was slow so you could expect to bump into the same players for a while.  It allowed you to group and form friendships.  Also slow combat also allowed you to assist players.  You also saw higher level players in newbie zones leveling.  Buffs and items could be given to lower level players 

    In UO players formed communities around player housing and npc cities.  You may port off to adventure but players tended to hang in whatever city they liked because there was no "high level" city.  Each city functioned as hub closer to real life.

    I think games moving forward would benefit from getting players to just adventure and hang around the same players. Seems simple but these days you blow through content and zones daily.  The only meet up spots are big cities which usually are about as interactive as big city in real life. Don't be afraid to allow players to interact with buffs and ports amd the like.
    You mean the social aspect and not the toxicity ?
    It's hard to take this question seriously from a guy with a Maxine Waters avatar...

    No offense.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 3,997
    This is just my opinion but players are too divided. 

    I know at least in UO and EQ players tended to be around for different reasons.

    In EQ leveling was slow so you could expect to bump into the same players for a while.  It allowed you to group and form friendships.  Also slow combat also allowed you to assist players.  You also saw higher level players in newbie zones leveling.  Buffs and items could be given to lower level players 

    In UO players formed communities around player housing and npc cities.  You may port off to adventure but players tended to hang in whatever city they liked because there was no "high level" city.  Each city functioned as hub closer to real life.

    I think games moving forward would benefit from getting players to just adventure and hang around the same players. Seems simple but these days you blow through content and zones daily.  The only meet up spots are big cities which usually are about as interactive as big city in real life. Don't be afraid to allow players to interact with buffs and ports amd the like.
    It is pretty simple... 

    MMO´s went mainstream... The so called common person came in to the picture... And with that the "magic" was gone. 

    It happens to anything that get popular, the old feelings fades and is replaced by a stampede of people who might not give a flying shit about your old feeling... In fact it is pretty much a given they do not. Some become fans and find that feeling over time, most do not. 
    IselinAlBQuirky

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

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