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3.3 (late) Brings Nothing New to Development

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  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited October 2018
    @MaxBacon Now let's conclude this conversation between you and I.

    Since you have been so open and honest, let's keep up the positivism and stay with what you agree with me on.

    I'll just summarize all your other posts and save the excuses and reasons because nobody is really interested.

    Ok, champ?


    1. Things happen, change, or don't go as planned during software development.

    2. There are ongoing, known issues on Live for as long as 6 months or more. Issues such as doors missing, doors not opening, constant crashes, elevators of death, etc etc.

    3. There are new issues, such as with chat and FOIP.

    4. FOIP was never intended to be fully implemented. It's a "first pass".

    5. OCS is great and helps with FPS. However, it also was not fully implemented. OCS on client-side and not yet on server-side. (I actually know why, it's ok)

    6. Internal QA passes broken features and half-implemented features.

    7. Despite the Roadmaps spammed on this site, 3.3 didn't release in 3Q and is still in testing.

    8. Despite the Roadmaps spammed on this site, many features will not make it in 3.3.



    So my question for you is this:

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Linif said:
    This was a rollercoaster of a thread to read, hot damn.

    Lots of arguing, jabbing and floundering. Very entertaining. Can I ask a question to both sides of this:

    You come here to bash the game or you come here to defend the game. Like or hate, both sides are entitled to their opinions. Development has been a long process. Some would contend that this isn't a development process, others believe it is. Neither side possess a clairvoyant, so whether it will release or won't, in a bad or good condition, is impossible to tell. (Yes, impossible. You can guess, even make an educated or experienced guess. It's a guess all the same.)

    It's a forum to discuss and both sides aren't going to see eye to eye, but we'll come right back to jump down each others throats once again, shortly after, for another thread.

    The question is: Why does either side fight so hard for this? Leave the fanboys to love their game and the haters to hate it...

    Or, continue this cycle of drama and provide people like me with a zesty read. What does it matter in the end I suppose?
    I want the game to release as it is being described/sold. All the features. I want to play THAT game.

    I also want results, not excuses. If there's a problem, what is the solution? All I'm hearing is excuses. Solves nothing.

    Finally, I'm tired of the namecalling and censorship surrounding Star Citizen. It just makes me want to be louder with my opinions and experiences with SC. You couldn't even have this discussion on the official forums. I'm sure Reddit is on lockdown by now. So...

    LinifRobsolf
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 570
    Well Chris better hope the "well" doesn't run dry before he has even a beta.  I understand the desire they have for having a publisher. I wonder though if the pool of generous donors is starting to shrink. Also hopefully for them they can resolve their dispute with Crytek with to much damage.
    I'll still be watching and waiting for when they do put out a "beta".
    NorseGod
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607
    edited October 2018
    Linif said:
    This was a rollercoaster of a thread to read, hot damn.

    Lots of arguing, jabbing and floundering. Very entertaining. Can I ask a question to both sides of this:

    You come here to bash the game or you come here to defend the game.
    What game???

    6+ years and no game.  Critics and defenders are ironically in agreement with this, yet come to entirely different conclusions.  Critics are complaining that there's nothing close to a game, after all this time.  People who defend the game say, "how can you bash the game?  The game doesn't exist, yet!'".

    If this were 2-3 years in, I'd have alot more sympathy for its defenders.  3-4 years, even.  But 6+ years and barely in Alpha is limbo.  This IS NOT how you make games.  This is not even how you make software.

    And I know the arguments... loadless transitions are lovely, but they are easily forgettable when you're playing.  They're certainly no reason to hold up a game for YEARS.
    NorseGod
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607
    NorseGod said:
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    I know this. However, I specifically asked these questions. Please answer them. Please.

    Should they "stop their whining"?

    Is "stop your whining" CIG's official position?

    Do new players deserve to be attacked on the official forums for asking if anyone else is having this problem?

    Do you think CIG would be better off not releasing a ship until there are doors on it/doors open?

    1) Yes, they should stop their whining, if CIG is already aware and working on finishing the build, the PTU will get the major kinks ironed out, it's why its there, whining just pisses off people that don't get why people go into PTU with wrong expectations on how it flows.

    2) If you go to the official forum with the same tone as in this thread, having a go at this issue present on the PTU builds, I can't think of anything more effective you could do to piss off the entire forum. Like, even Reddit, and Reddit is always salty.

    3) The ship has not been released to proper terms, testing can have ships in a more or less raw form, CIG are just doing what they created the Evocati and the PTU for, and since they did, the LIVE builds of the updates are FAR more stable than they ever were before, so the workflow works.


    3. What is the correct "tone" a player should use when their $45 - $27,000 ship doesn't release with doors/working doors to be able to fly said ship?

    4. Your answer was yes, CIG is making the right decision to release broken ships to Live.

    Not many people agree with how you describe what is and isn't an alpha. I know you are wrong. It's a tech demo. A Pre-Alpha at best. 

    The Dev that programs a cash register, follows the same exact industry standards and best practices as coding software the size of Star Citizen. There is no difference. Industry Standards and Best Practice. Scope has ZERO effect on them.

    You said the known issues that I mentioned in my OP where passed by Internal QA. Here's how software travels (simplified):

    Dev Sandbox Environment
    Internal QA
    Evocati (They are unqualified players who just spend more on the game, nobodys)
    Test Server
    Live (Production)

    Live is the final version (called Production). All Live software is the final version (until later patches, etc). This is CIG saying "Ok world, this is our best for you to see". Marketing gets to "technically" claim they have, for example, FOIP. Even though it's not fully implemented or working. But, "technically" FOIP is in the game, in a used car salesman tactic.

    And please, I'm not trying to write a novel here, I kept this development process as simple and short as possible. Try to restrain yourself.

    I found your opinions very telling. Especially how players with problems should be treated. Funny they never make podcasts about that part of the Star Citizen experience.

    Did you guys pay attention to EA? You know how they make good games but nobody buys them now because they talk racist shit to customers on social media? Don't do that. Don't talk smack to your customers. It's bad for you.



    3.  I bought a video card(a Rad 290x)that came with a free SC ship.  That video card is obsolete, now.  Yet, no ship.  No game.

    Now... I don't think I am owed anything because of that.  Just making the point that this game is LONG beyond projected development time.  Can't imagine having dumped cash money into this game how pissed I would be...

    My theory is... CR wasn't lying.  I think he wanted to create the game as described.  My theory is, HE HAS NO IDEA how to create the game he described, and he thought he could throw enough money at it to make it happen, and it didn't happen.  And now he's stuck.
    ArglebargleNorseGod
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Robsolf said:
    Linif said:


    If this were 2-3 years in, I'd have alot more sympathy for its defenders.  3-4 years, even.  But 6+ years and barely in Alpha is limbo.  This IS NOT how you make games.  This is not even how you make software.


    This isn't for the cult to answer or defend. This is all Chris Roberts. What does he have to say?

    He loves podcasts and videos. Are there any videos of him being held accountable for this?

    More importantly, will he respond with slogans, excuses, or solutions?
    Robsolf
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    NorseGod said:
    Robsolf said:
    Linif said:


    If this were 2-3 years in, I'd have alot more sympathy for its defenders.  3-4 years, even.  But 6+ years and barely in Alpha is limbo.  This IS NOT how you make games.  This is not even how you make software.


    This isn't for the cult to answer or defend. This is all Chris Roberts. What does he have to say?

    He loves podcasts and videos. Are there any videos of him being held accountable for this?

    More importantly, will he respond with slogans, excuses, or solutions?
      You mean Chris "I absolve myself of that" Roberts?
    NorseGodKefo
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396
    Robsolf said:
    ....
    ....
    My theory is... CR wasn't lying.  I think he wanted to create the game as described.  My theory is, HE HAS NO IDEA how to create the game he described, and he thought he could throw enough money at it to make it happen, and it didn't happen.  And now he's stuck.
    Well, a friend of mine who worked at Origin throughout CR's presence there had this to say: 'Chris Roberts believes everything he says, regardless of its relationship to reality.'

    So yeah.   If you go look at the early SC stretch goals, some of them are easy and reasonable, and some you could tell they had no earthly idea how they'd implement them, especially at reasonable cost.  

    CIG has to keep adding enough to keep the moneyball rolling now.   Working elevators doesn't do that.
    NorseGodRobsolf

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Robsolf said:
    NorseGod said:
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:




    3.  I bought a video card(a Rad 290x)that came with a free SC ship.  That video card is obsolete, now.  Yet, no ship.  No game.

    Now... I don't think I am owed anything because of that.  Just making the point that this game is LONG beyond projected development time.  Can't imagine having dumped cash money into this game how pissed I would be...

    My theory is... CR wasn't lying.  I think he wanted to create the game as described.  My theory is, HE HAS NO IDEA how to create the game he described, and he thought he could throw enough money at it to make it happen, and it didn't happen.  And now he's stuck.
    Very possible. He's not a real CEO.

    Curious, how do you feel about the position of "stop your whining"? You've been following this conversation, what's you opinion?
    Robsolf
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607
    edited October 2018
    NorseGod said:
    Robsolf said:
    Linif said:


    If this were 2-3 years in, I'd have alot more sympathy for its defenders.  3-4 years, even.  But 6+ years and barely in Alpha is limbo.  This IS NOT how you make games.  This is not even how you make software.


    This isn't for the cult to answer or defend. This is all Chris Roberts. What does he have to say?

    He loves podcasts and videos. Are there any videos of him being held accountable for this?

    More importantly, will he respond with slogans, excuses, or solutions?
    He won't have to respond.  What we've seen will continue until bankruptcy, and maybe beyond.  But no worries everyone!  Chris Roberts will be okay.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    NorseGod said:
    Robsolf said:
    Linif said:


    This isn't for the cult to answer or defend. This is all Chris Roberts. What does he have to say?

    He loves podcasts and videos. Are there any videos of him being held accountable for this?

    More importantly, will he respond with slogans, excuses, or solutions?
      You mean Chris "I absolve myself of that" Roberts?
    He doesn't even know that he can't do that if he wants to be called, the CEO. This is basic shit.
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Robsolf said:
    NorseGod said:
    Robsolf said:
    Linif said:


    He won't have to respond.  What we've seen will continue until bankruptcy, and maybe beyond.  But no worries everyone!  Chris Roberts will be okay.

    Ever read the comments about how modules don't effect development? Let's use FOIP as an example because it's current.

    FOIP is a useless non-priority in this stage in development. But, you'll be met with comments such as "FOIP is built as a module by a contractor that has no impact on development." This isn't entirely true, because there is still a time investment, bah, I'm not making a list, you get the idea.

    But that's not the purpose of modules such as FOIP.

    CIG will go bankrupt. Chris Roberts sells off all the convenient tech modules to other companies. Which is a lot easier to sell off than an entire company.

    CIG needs to bring in a real son of a bitch to drive this home. Chris Roberts just isn't man enough to do it and needs to step aside for the sake of "his dream".
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    edited October 2018
    I am not feeding this rant made of entitlement and delusional expectations of what the testing branch is about.

    You don't have the reason here because you delusional expectations want to PTU to be what it is not, then you wonder why you get attacked and laughed off on the official forums by bringing these arguments there, of all that happens there that is abusive, this is not.

    You go opt-in into the PTU, you play it, you do NOT contribute to the bug-fixing and polish phases, but you sure put the effort on building one entire hate rant based on an unfinished build to be finished up and polished before release of being just that. 

    I am very much glad the large majority of the backers I play and see around are not like you, from the "superfans" to the skeptical ones, the one thing they have in common is that they understand this process that simply works and have realistic expectations if they so want to contribute, unlike you unfortunately.

    The PTU will be literally patched daily, as it usually is, and render this rant thread irrelevant. I sure would not WTF at this ridiculous thread of yours if you were making this about the LIVE RELEASE of 3.3 with the major issues of the PTU.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    MaxBacon said:
    I am not feeding this rant made of entitlement and delusional expectations of what the testing branch is about.


    Delusional expectations? What? Like things to work? lol Kick rocks.

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    NorseGod said:
    Delusional expectations? What? Like things to work? lol Kick rocks.
    Delusional expectations and huge entitlement are what your arguments are. You go to the PTU and expect something that is not the PTU.

    You are playing the PTU and you expect the build to be on the shape of the LIVE release, when it's not, you write up this rant. That's it in a nutshell.


    It's because this I kinda defend the testing phase should entirely under NDA, so it keeps people like you from getting involved with the testing and first builds that are not yet on an acceptable releasable condition. 
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Delusional expectations? What? Like things to work? lol Kick rocks.
    Delusional expectations and huge entitlement are what your arguments are. You go to the PTU and expect something that is not the PTU.

    You are playing the PTU and you expect the build to be on the shape of the LIVE release, when it's not, you write up this rant. That's it in a nutshell.


    It's because this I kinda defend the testing phase should entirely under NDA, so it keeps people like you from getting involved with the testing and first builds that are not yet on an acceptable releasable condition. 
    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    edited October 2018
    NorseGod said:
    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    The 3.3 will be implemented and working when it is out on LIVE, as it always had been before, despite your entitlement to have it all working and fixed on the first build of the PTU.

    I will not bother to even go list everything that is there that may or may not need bug fixes or polish. You want the core feature-set that one is present here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen

    You want specifics, follow the patch notes of the PTU builds rolling out (likely later today).
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    The 3.3 will be fully implemented and working when it is out on LIVE, 
    That wasn't my question.

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    NorseGod said:
    That wasn't my question.

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    And having to repeat myself again...

    I will not bother to even go list everything that is there that may or may not need bug fixes or polish. You want the core feature-set that one is present here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen and is out on the PTU branch you can play now excluding the known-issues.

    You want specifics, follow the patch notes of the PTU builds rolling out (likely later today).
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited October 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    That wasn't my question.

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?
    And having to repeat myself again...

    I will not bother to even go list everything that is there that may or may not need bug fixes or polish. You want the core feature-set that one is present here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen and is out on the PTU branch you can play now excluding the known-issues.

    You want specifics, follow the patch notes of the PTU builds rolling out (likely later today).
    But your prepared response is not answering the question, it's just another non-answer, answer.

    Again

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?

    Why are you dodging this? Grow a spine and stand by what you believe in for once. Answer the simple question.

    Here, let me help:

    1. OCS client-side
    2. ?
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    edited October 2018
    NorseGod said:
    But your prepared response is not answering the question, it's just another non-answer, answer.

    Again

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?

    Why are you dodging this? Grow a spine and stand by what you believe in for once. Answer the simple question.

    Here, let me help:

    1. OCS client-side
    2. ?
    Because you are being on purpose manipulative.

    For example, OCS is in, it's not fully finished neither bug-fixed, so you'll just have a go at that, if I mention FPS AI you'll likely have a go at bugs with it, and so forth. It's. Pointless.

    That said, I'll just link up what it on the current PTU build in full: https://pastebin.com/raw/bH2zASC2
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    But your prepared response is not answering the question, it's just another non-answer, answer.

    Again

    Will you list all things 3.3 brings that is fully implemented and working to Live, like my thread title says?

    Why are you dodging this? Grow a spine and stand by what you believe in for once. Answer the simple question.

    Here, let me help:

    1. OCS client-side
    2. ?
    Because you are being on purpose manipulative to build up ridiculous arguments.

    For example, OCS is in, it's not fully finished neither bug-fixed, so you'll just have a go at that, if I mention FPS AI you'll likely have a go at bugs with it, and so forth. It's. Pointless.

    That said, I'll just link up what it on the current PTU build in full: https://pastebin.com/raw/bH2zASC2
    So nothing. Got it.

    You know, we as a community on MMORPG.com have to endure yours and Shill #1's propaganda day in and day out. Roadmaps, pretty pictures and videos, 3.3 info, etc. But, after it comes out, it's proven to be a bust. You get all quiet. Why is that? You usually have so much to say.

    I didn't want your pre-approved, prepared statement. I just wanted your opinion and you're terrified to give one for no reason.

    Have you thought about running for public office one day? You'd be perfect.
    MaxBacon
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    edited October 2018
    NorseGod said:
    So nothing. Got it.

    You know, we as a community on MMORPG.com have to endure yours and Shill #1's propaganda day in and day out. Roadmaps, pretty pictures and videos, 3.3 info, etc. But, after it comes out, it's proven to be a bust. You get all quiet. Why is that? You usually have so much to say.

    I didn't want your pre-approved, prepared statement. I just wanted your opinion and you're terrified to give one for no reason.

    Have you thought about running for public office one day? You'd be perfect.
    Wooooooow Manipulative indeed... You know you're the one coming across as desperate because you're manipulating so much, nitpicking so much, just so you can cook up arguments against the game/devs.

    Now you come with cheap hyperbole remarks, you just went full hater. Well, go have fun with that, I'll have fun with what is the current 3.3 PTU, as many other backers also are! ;) 

    The PTU will continue getting its constant patches nuf said. That's all that matters, not your delusional entitlement that in a nutshell is expecting the stability and completion of the LIVE branch on the PTU branch.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:

    Wooooooow Manipulative indeed... You know you're the one coming across as desperate because you're manipulating so much, nitpicking so much, just so you can cook up arguments against the game/devs.

    Now you come with cheap hyperbole remarks, you just went full hater. Well, go have fun with that, I'll have fun with what is the current 3.3 PTU, as many other backers also are! ;) 

    The PTU will continue getting its constant patches nuf said. That's all that matters, not your delusional entitlement that in a nutshell is expecting the stability and completion of the LIVE branch on the PTU branch.
    You can't even name one fully implemented and working feature in 3.3?


    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,766
    NorseGod said:
    You can't even name one fully implemented and working feature in 3.3?
    Oh bloody hell, I am not the developers, I don't know what features there despite looking finished or not will not face updates BEFORE the LIVE release, go ask the devs that.
This discussion has been closed.