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Funding

AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
When VR got its Series A funding, they announced it. They even issued a press release:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5934/series-a-funding-for-pantheon-is-now-complete

Same with the Angel Investor:

https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/28/everquest-creator-raises-seed-round-to-build-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/

But I haven't seen anything lately about a new funding round, as ostensibly we draw nearer to closed beta.

To the contrary, I see people raising the issue and VR saying that they don't discuss funding. 

I mention this not to be a naysayer or a critic. I still fully support the game. I'm just concerned about whether or not they are going to have the funds needed to complete this very ambitious undertaking. 


EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

Comments

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,450
    I think you mean as we draw near to closed alpha. They're still currently in "pre-alpha". 

    Anyways, they did just post about hiring for multiple positions. You don't do that if funds are running out. 
    Kyleran
    --------------------------------------------
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 538
    There were no numbers mentioned in either press release, so I'm not surprised that they won't talk about the funding. I'm sure if and when they have something new to announce, they will. 

    Whoever the investors are, they no doubt receive financial updates. As an investor with Crowfall, I get an email every month with financial data. 
    KyleranJamesGoblin
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,516
    edited October 2018
    No good can from a discussion around funding. If they announced some investor was going to put in $100M some portion of the community would scream Brad was selling out. 

    Likely another group would say it was great news and all, but still only half of what SC raised totally scot free and conclude Pantheon was doomed to fail.

    Finally with all the new money lying around fewer customers would likely be inclined to pre-order or pledge more free funds to build a better game.

    Best if they keep quiet and heads down on delivering a playable game in the next 5 years. 

    Besides the 3 B's essential to game development (and hip hop) are expensive to maintain.

    ;)

    [Deleted User]WellspringSovrathGdemamimaskedweasel

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    I think you mean as we draw near to closed alpha. They're still currently in "pre-alpha". 

    Anyways, they did just post about hiring for multiple positions. You don't do that if funds are running out. 
    Not really, furthermore you might do that if people are running out, too. @OP They are (still...) hiding numbers, I'm afraid for quite good reasons.

    PS somewhat on-topic, it seems that someone edited Wikipedia article about Pantheon, by deleting the fact that their Kickstarter failed; here is how it sounds now:

    On January 13, 2014, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen was announced alongside a Kickstarter campaign. Visionary Realms continues to crowdfund independently and sell pledges for the game and various levels of external testing. The game is in pre-alpha since December 13th, 2017.


    Gdemami
     W...aaagh?
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,450
    Kyleran said:
    No good can from a discussion around funding. If they announced some investor was going to put in $100M some portion of the community would scream Brad was selling out. 

    Likely another group would say it was great news and all, but still only half of what SC raised totally scot free and conclude Pantheon was doomed to fail.

    Finally with all the new money lying around fewer customers would likely be inclined to pre-order or pledge more free funds to build a better game.

    Best if they keep quiet and heads down on delivering a playable game in the next 5 years. 

    Besides the 3 B's essential to game development (and hip hop) are expensive to maintain.

    ;)

    I gotta know, what are these 3 B's you speak of?!

    Brad
    Backers
    and Bevelopers?
     

    --------------------------------------------
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,516
    LOL, no its Booze, B!itch!s, and Blow.

    I'm going to hell, who's coming with me?

    ;)
    SovrathJamesGoblinWellspringblueturtle13Xodic

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited October 2018
    JamesGoblin said:
    @OP They are (still...) hiding numbers, I'm afraid for quite good reasons.


    Of course there is good reason: It's none of your business.
    svannKyleranmaskedweaselFlyByKnight
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,740
    I'm hyped..... It's premature hype. 

    I've been called out on why I don't study deeply into the structure of both the game and Visionary Realms.  

    It's simple:
    - Its pre-alpha 
    - It a long way out 
    - Financials are none of our business
    - Donations are just that DONATIONS !... Give "freely" or don't give at all. 


    I believe, it's premature, but I believe anyway :)
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,516
    Actually they should provide their donors an accounting of their financials, common practice in many situations.

    I donate signicant amounts of money to my church who once a year publish a financial accounting which is validated with an audit by a reputable accounting firm.

    It includes all sources of income and a breakdown of expenses such as number of paid staff (109), volunteer staff (935), rent, mortgages, utilities for four campuses, charitable ministries,  expansions (campus 5 opens soon) and more.

    They don't have to, many churches don't but it's one reason why I am a member and donate.

    No reason a game developer accepting donations shouldn't do similar but unless a public entity they don't have to. 

    But it most definitely is our business.


    blueturtle13MendelWellspringGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,666
    Especially in this case considering the funds were mismanaged before. It behoves them to be more transparent in their accounting to whoever is giving them the funds.
    blueturtle13MendelKyleranGdemami

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited October 2018
    Gdemami said:
    Of course there is good reason: It's none of your business.
    What are you saying exactly? If you are saying I have no right to this information, that's true of course. I don't (as a non-investor).

    Are you saying that detailed financial information is something non-public companies generally regard as confidential and even trade secret data? That is also true.

    Or are you saying it is inappropriate to inquire just as to the funding status of the project? That is absolutely not true. As shown in the original post, VR has been using its obtainment of funding stages to market the game. Now they have stopped doing that. As a consumer, that catches my eye and I am within my rights to point it out. But hey, maybe they don't need more funding because what they have is more than adequate. 


    Gdemami

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,516
    edited October 2018
    Amathe said:
    Gdemami said:
    Of course there is good reason: It's none of your business.
    What are you saying exactly? If you are saying I have no right to this information, that's true of course. I don't (as a non-investor).

    Are you saying that detailed financial information is something non-public companies generally regard as confidential and even trade secret data? That is also true.

    Or are you saying it is inappropriate to inquire just as to the funding status of the project? That is absolutely not true. As shown in the original post, VR has been using its obtainment of funding stages to market the game. Now they have stopped doing that. As a consumer, that catches my eye and I am within my rights to point it out. But hey, maybe they don't need more funding because what they have is more than adequate. 


    In all fairness the Pantheon team doesn't spend a lot of effort trying to raise additional donations, unlike some other Devs (Soulbound Studios, cough, cough)

    I'd say they have someone there properly managing the project financials. No indication to the contrary and silence doesn't indicate anything, just how most any Dev rolls unless the law forces them to do otherwise.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,678
    Amathe said:
    Gdemami said:
    Of course there is good reason: It's none of your business.
    What are you saying exactly? If you are saying I have no right to this information, that's true of course. I don't (as a non-investor).

    Are you saying that detailed financial information is something non-public companies generally regard as confidential and even trade secret data? That is also true.

    Or are you saying it is inappropriate to inquire just as to the funding status of the project? That is absolutely not true. As shown in the original post, VR has been using its obtainment of funding stages to market the game. Now they have stopped doing that. As a consumer, that catches my eye and I am within my rights to point it out. But hey, maybe they don't need more funding because what they have is more than adequate. 


    That is a very good distinction.  The public should know if an anticipated project is in financial trouble.  Financing is a common cause of project delay, and a possible delay affects everyone, investor and (future) customer alike.  Like you stated, VR has made a point of it to expressly advertise to the world of their financial health, and that practice has stopped.  Why has that stopped?  Several possible reasons come to mind.

    My guess.  They don't need to sell any more pre-alpha access packages.  I'm guessing they have enough testers to finish development (plus @Nanfoodle ;) ).  So, their financing is in good shape.  We won't see about their financing from VR, as they begin to transition from a preliminary product to a finalized game, ready for sales.  So, stopping marketing using their financial position isn't alarming, only curious.



    Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • asteldiancaliskanasteldiancaliskan Member UncommonPosts: 58
    Amathe said:
    When VR got its Series A funding, they announced it. They even issued a press release:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5934/series-a-funding-for-pantheon-is-now-complete

    Same with the Angel Investor:

    https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/28/everquest-creator-raises-seed-round-to-build-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/

    But I haven't seen anything lately about a new funding round, as ostensibly we draw nearer to closed beta.

    To the contrary, I see people raising the issue and VR saying that they don't discuss funding. 

    I mention this not to be a naysayer or a critic. I still fully support the game. I'm just concerned about whether or not they are going to have the funds needed to complete this very ambitious undertaking. 


    I would not read too much into it. In reality the only reason Series A funding was announced was because the only finance related info prior to this was 'failed kickstarter' so prior to Series A funding most assumed the game was just a dead dream in denial. Getting the funding was a big change to the situation letting people know they were back in the running.

    The latest news letter briefly mentioned reaching a funding goal, that is likely the most we will hear because while it is reassuring, announcements on funding wont have the impact their first did - at this point people not backing because they dont see a future for this game style or simply dont back games, not because they believe the game lacks funds to release.
    WellspringKyleran
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,450
    Amathe said:
    When VR got its Series A funding, they announced it. They even issued a press release:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5934/series-a-funding-for-pantheon-is-now-complete

    Same with the Angel Investor:

    https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/28/everquest-creator-raises-seed-round-to-build-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/

    But I haven't seen anything lately about a new funding round, as ostensibly we draw nearer to closed beta.

    To the contrary, I see people raising the issue and VR saying that they don't discuss funding. 

    I mention this not to be a naysayer or a critic. I still fully support the game. I'm just concerned about whether or not they are going to have the funds needed to complete this very ambitious undertaking. 


    I would not read too much into it. In reality the only reason Series A funding was announced was because the only finance related info prior to this was 'failed kickstarter' so prior to Series A funding most assumed the game was just a dead dream in denial. Getting the funding was a big change to the situation letting people know they were back in the running.

    The latest news letter briefly mentioned reaching a funding goal, that is likely the most we will hear because while it is reassuring, announcements on funding wont have the impact their first did - at this point people not backing because they dont see a future for this game style or simply dont back games, not because they believe the game lacks funds to release.
    Agreed. Also the fact that they don't have a cash shop or constant sales events speaks volumes.
    Kyleran
    --------------------------------------------
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