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MMO-Lite The Matrix

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Comments

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,001
    edited October 2018
    klash2def said:
    Do not say anything about numbers, there are several parts to an MMO.  Number of players is one part.
    MMO is a descriptor of only one facet, the number of players able to be in the same world at the same time. It does not signify ANY OTHER aspect of the game. 


    "Don't argue this specific thing because I say so" LMAO... kids
    It doesn't actually mention a number of players.  It is vague.  What is massively today and be nothing tomorrow.  If there is a breakthrough in latency you could have 60k players in just one main city.  


    Vague yeah I agree with that, but massively is representative of being exceptionally large. I would argue that a MMO of yesterday shouldn't be considered an MMO of today because of the advancements in technology. Much like the "fast" cars of the 20s would likely not be considered remotely in the same category of fast cars of today. The threshold would be ever increasing. That would also mean only a handful of games would qualify for MMO status today.

    But that is not what this "discussion" was even about.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    MMO-lites are literally MMOs with smaller shards. 
    Wow.

    I think I'll start calling you Human-lite. Seem to be missing some components.
    Bro why are you still here? I thought you were going to play SWG private emulator?

    You have yet to explain your point or explain why I'm wrong. All you've done is lame attempts at trying to insult me with dad jokes..

    I've asked you several times to explain how I'm wrong and you haven't because you cant. I have presented a argument that is hard to debate because the games are proof of what I and many others are saying. MMO-lites.
    SWG Emulator? Dad jokes? What are you on about? Nvm, don't bother answering. You don't matter anyway.

    Like I said originally, the term MMO-Lite fails to represent what you are trying to say. It's like saying Supercar-lite. It's not Supercar-lite, it's just a car.
    Now you want to act like you don't know you've been throwing nothing but insults at me this entire time? Amazing. You aren't getting out of this. I'm gonna keep addressing when you say stupid shit to me. 

    Honda makes Cars (Games)

    Honda makes the Honda Civic Car (MMORPG traditional)

    Honda makes the NSX Supercar (MMO-Lite) 

    Supercar NSX and Normal Car Civic are two versions of a Car. Its okay to address it as such.

    Do you see how there can be different types of the same thing? How is this rocket science? 

    its so easy. 

    Supercar is a type of car

    MMO-Lite is a type of MMO

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    lahnmir said:
    klash2def said:
    lahnmir said:
    Kyleran said:
    klash2def said:
    Gonna bring this thread up again in 12 months.
    Please do, I enjoy pointing out when people are totally wrong,  in fact it's almost a hobby,  and so easy to do.
    To be fair, he doesn't present you with much of a challenge to begin with.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Both of you explain how I'm wrong. I'm waiting. I don't care about all the insults. Tell me how Warframe, Destiny, The Division aren't MMO-lite and don't belong to the MMO family at all. 

    the argument that it has little players per shard. We get it, that's why we say mmo-lite. The games have the same features and gameplay loops as traditional mmorpgs. They play exactly the same.

    the argument that its multiplayer only. Its not, a multiplayer game is Borderlands, Gears or Call of Duty. MMO lites are online only persistent worlds with dynamic events. Im not going to list out all the MMO tropes we all know them just know lites have everything but it happens on smaller shards.

    Without those two dead arguments explain how I'm wrong. I'm sick of the lame dad jokes just give me facts or stfu. 
    How about dropping the cursing and read what I wrote above. You are right about the gameplay features being similar EXCEPT for the numbers, unfortunately that means the MM in MMO doesn't make sense anymore, not even with Lite behind it. And I would never make dad jokes, although I am an awesome one...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I wouldn't need to tell people to stfu if they weren't only coming here to insult me. Have a actual pov or dont engage me or be passive aggressive with me because I'm going to do it right back to you. I took you saying me "not presenting much of a challenge to begin with" as a passive aggressive insult. That's what that is. 

    As for your point yes the MM part is what Ive been saying for years is the issue. I said its buzzword from the early 2000s and I got spat on for saying that too. No matter what I say here people attack me, when I generally produce thoughtful explanations for my pov. 

    The reality is MMO is here and its been so long that people aren't gonna just drop the term. Today its used to represent a type of game with certain features.
    When I say Destiny is a MMO-lite to a person who never played Destiny but they know MMOs, you cant tell me that person wouldn't know exactly what to expect with Destiny. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,001
    Failed again. Sorry, it just wont actually stick no matter how hard you throw it at the world. Need a better term.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,879
    edited October 2018
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    MrMelGibsonMaurgrim
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    Failed again. Sorry, it just wont actually stick no matter how hard you throw it at the world. Need a better term.
    you have gamervet syndrome. Its amazing how salty you are about the fact your early 2k term could have a second meaning. You don't have to admit it, its not changing anything. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,001
    Throws insults, accuses others of throwing insults. I realize I'm talking with an adolescent, so it's understandable. Good thing this will never stick anyway. Words and terms are adopted over time when the population accepts it in great stride. This has never caught on anywhere and wont.

    That's why I suggest shooting for a better term. One that will actually get adopted, because this is a waste of time.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    But literally people say MMO-Lite for that one reason. Scale. 

    Also Bungie would never admit the game is a MMO because its not good for business to say its a MMO. He literally said we draw elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO our game will compel you to explore. That's code for yes we made a quasi MMO/MMO lite but we aren't gonna focus on just that part.

    He never said its not MMO-Lite he said its not a MMO and he is right it isn't simply a MMO. He admitted MMOs inspired it and when you play it you MMO is the number one thing you get from it right after FPS/looter game. Im not gonna list all the mmo things again, if youve played Destiny 2 you would see yourself. 

    Nobody is saying its simply a MMO. Its MMO lite. What's the problem with people saying that? Why are you so offended by that? He also said they are looking forward to and invite how we describe Destiny once we have played it. Most people that have played it that have MMO backgrounds all say the same thing. Its like a MMO but with less people. 

    Thus the term MMO-lite. Why get salty over this?

    If I say Destiny 2 is a MMO-Lite to a player who never played Destiny but has played MMOs they are gonna know exactly the type of game Destiny is. 


    Maurgrim
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,001
    "people say mmo-Lite"
    No they don't.

    <3
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    It's not a genre and it has no meaning. So childish. Just stop.

    MMO lite lmao. 

    I think people just like to troll really hard and start terrible threads. Need a real topic.
    Since you forgot where you insulted me first let me remind you. ^

    ChildoftheShadowsMaurgrim
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    "people say mmo-Lite"
    No they don't.

    <3


    yes they do.
    Maurgrim
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ShouldIbuythisgame/comments/7fpmuu/wsib_an_mmo_lite_like_destiny_2_or_the_division/

    MMO-Lite discussions are happening all over the internet. Only a out of touch person or a bitter gamervet from this website would say otherwise. 
    Maurgrim
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,879
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    But literally people say MMO-Lite for that one reason. Scale. 

    Also Bungie would never admit the game is a MMO because its not good for business to say its a MMO. He literally said we draw elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO our game will compel you to explore. That's code for yes we made a quasi MMO/MMO lite but we aren't gonna focus on just that part.

    He never said its not MMO-Lite he said its not a MMO and he is right it isn't simply a MMO. He admitted MMOs inspired it and when you play it you MMO is the number one thing you get from it right after FPS/looter game. Im not gonna list all the mmo things again, if youve played Destiny 2 you would see yourself. 

    Nobody is saying its simply a MMO. Its MMO lite. What's the problem with people saying that? Why are you so offended by that? He also said they are looking forward to and invite how we describe Destiny once we have played it. Most people that have played it that have MMO backgrounds all say the same thing. Its like a MMO but with less people. 

    Thus the term MMO-lite. Why get salty over this?

    If I say Destiny 2 is a MMO-Lite to a player who never played Destiny but has played MMOs they are gonna know exactly the type of game Destiny is. 


    There is only one person salty in this thread and  we all know who that is ... You are an extreme minority here that wants to catergorize Destiny and its ilk as an mmo , why does that bother you ..

       Its a fine coop/multiplayer game , and there nothing wrong with that it weird you want to change its label so badly so it fits into the MMORPG genre , its strange to say the least ..Are you feeling left out , inadequate , we are trying to tell once again that SIZE DOES MATTER , and Destiny does not have the scale or persistent charecteristics of an MMO among other things pointed out to you .. for a year now ..


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    But literally people say MMO-Lite for that one reason. Scale. 

    Also Bungie would never admit the game is a MMO because its not good for business to say its a MMO. He literally said we draw elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO our game will compel you to explore. That's code for yes we made a quasi MMO/MMO lite but we aren't gonna focus on just that part.

    He never said its not MMO-Lite he said its not a MMO and he is right it isn't simply a MMO. He admitted MMOs inspired it and when you play it you MMO is the number one thing you get from it right after FPS/looter game. Im not gonna list all the mmo things again, if youve played Destiny 2 you would see yourself. 

    Nobody is saying its simply a MMO. Its MMO lite. What's the problem with people saying that? Why are you so offended by that? He also said they are looking forward to and invite how we describe Destiny once we have played it. Most people that have played it that have MMO backgrounds all say the same thing. Its like a MMO but with less people. 

    Thus the term MMO-lite. Why get salty over this?

    If I say Destiny 2 is a MMO-Lite to a player who never played Destiny but has played MMOs they are gonna know exactly the type of game Destiny is. 


    There is only one person salty in this thread and  we all know who that is ... You are an extreme minority here that wants to catergorize Destiny and its ilk as an mmo , why does that bother you ..

       Its a fine coop/multiplayer game , and there nothing wrong with that it weird you want to change its label so badly so it fits into the MMORPG genre , its strange to say the least ..Are you feeling left out , inadequate , we are trying to tell once again that SIZE DOES MATTER , and Destiny does not have the scale or persistent charecteristics of an MMO among other things pointed out to you .. for a year now ..


    Bro you think because you have cheerleaders in here now that you are making a point now? Lol dude you aren't making any points.

    Because I'm a minority in this doesn't mean I'm wrong. I know I'm right because I play Destiny and I play traditional MMOs.

    I have given evidence to go with my points but got nothing back but insults so I will give them right back because I don't need them. 

    I'm not the only person who thinks Destiny and its kind are MMO-lites. Maybe I'm the only person on this website but this site is less than 1% of the gaming community sorry! The conversation didn't start with me, thousands of other people are thinking the same thing. 

    Also stop trying to paint this as me NEEDING it to be a MMO. I'm defending my point of view because I'm being attacked for having a POV. I didn't attack anyone in my op I got attacked by yourself and others as soon as I posted. 

    If anything its you who NEEDS it to NOT be a MMO-lite and that's more weird. I had my own opinion. Others across the net share my opinion, you don't that's cool, I don't care but just because you don't agree doesn't make my opinion wrong esp when I provided thoughtful reasoning on why I'm thinking its a MMO-lite. most comments were attacks and that's how I know nobody came here to get understanding. 

    destiny, warframe, and division are not just Multiplayer games, not just co-op games, not a MMORPG..they are MMO-lites. That's a new thing and it makes total sense so that's why you hate it. 

    Like I said, I will be back in 12 months. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,879
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    But literally people say MMO-Lite for that one reason. Scale. 

    Also Bungie would never admit the game is a MMO because its not good for business to say its a MMO. He literally said we draw elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO our game will compel you to explore. That's code for yes we made a quasi MMO/MMO lite but we aren't gonna focus on just that part.

    He never said its not MMO-Lite he said its not a MMO and he is right it isn't simply a MMO. He admitted MMOs inspired it and when you play it you MMO is the number one thing you get from it right after FPS/looter game. Im not gonna list all the mmo things again, if youve played Destiny 2 you would see yourself. 

    Nobody is saying its simply a MMO. Its MMO lite. What's the problem with people saying that? Why are you so offended by that? He also said they are looking forward to and invite how we describe Destiny once we have played it. Most people that have played it that have MMO backgrounds all say the same thing. Its like a MMO but with less people. 

    Thus the term MMO-lite. Why get salty over this?

    If I say Destiny 2 is a MMO-Lite to a player who never played Destiny but has played MMOs they are gonna know exactly the type of game Destiny is. 


    There is only one person salty in this thread and  we all know who that is ... You are an extreme minority here that wants to catergorize Destiny and its ilk as an mmo , why does that bother you ..

       Its a fine coop/multiplayer game , and there nothing wrong with that it weird you want to change its label so badly so it fits into the MMORPG genre , its strange to say the least ..Are you feeling left out , inadequate , we are trying to tell once again that SIZE DOES MATTER , and Destiny does not have the scale or persistent charecteristics of an MMO among other things pointed out to you .. for a year now ..


    Bro you think because you have cheerleaders in here now that you are making a point now? Lol dude you aren't making any points.

    Because I'm a minority in this doesn't mean I'm wrong. I know I'm right because I play Destiny and I play traditional MMOs.

    I have given evidence to go with my points but got nothing back but insults so I will give them right back because I don't need them. 

    I'm not the only person who thinks Destiny and its kind are MMO-lites. Maybe I'm the only person on this website but this site is less than 1% of the gaming community sorry! The conversation didn't start with me, thousands of other people are thinking the same thing. 
      Clueless
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    But literally people say MMO-Lite for that one reason. Scale. 

    Also Bungie would never admit the game is a MMO because its not good for business to say its a MMO. He literally said we draw elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO our game will compel you to explore. That's code for yes we made a quasi MMO/MMO lite but we aren't gonna focus on just that part.

    He never said its not MMO-Lite he said its not a MMO and he is right it isn't simply a MMO. He admitted MMOs inspired it and when you play it you MMO is the number one thing you get from it right after FPS/looter game. Im not gonna list all the mmo things again, if youve played Destiny 2 you would see yourself. 

    Nobody is saying its simply a MMO. Its MMO lite. What's the problem with people saying that? Why are you so offended by that? He also said they are looking forward to and invite how we describe Destiny once we have played it. Most people that have played it that have MMO backgrounds all say the same thing. Its like a MMO but with less people. 

    Thus the term MMO-lite. Why get salty over this?

    If I say Destiny 2 is a MMO-Lite to a player who never played Destiny but has played MMOs they are gonna know exactly the type of game Destiny is. 


    There is only one person salty in this thread and  we all know who that is ... You are an extreme minority here that wants to catergorize Destiny and its ilk as an mmo , why does that bother you ..

       Its a fine coop/multiplayer game , and there nothing wrong with that it weird you want to change its label so badly so it fits into the MMORPG genre , its strange to say the least ..Are you feeling left out , inadequate , we are trying to tell once again that SIZE DOES MATTER , and Destiny does not have the scale or persistent charecteristics of an MMO among other things pointed out to you .. for a year now ..


    Bro you think because you have cheerleaders in here now that you are making a point now? Lol dude you aren't making any points.

    Because I'm a minority in this doesn't mean I'm wrong. I know I'm right because I play Destiny and I play traditional MMOs.

    I have given evidence to go with my points but got nothing back but insults so I will give them right back because I don't need them. 

    I'm not the only person who thinks Destiny and its kind are MMO-lites. Maybe I'm the only person on this website but this site is less than 1% of the gaming community sorry! The conversation didn't start with me, thousands of other people are thinking the same thing. 
      Clueless
    speak for yourself SWG emulator. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    Scorchien said:
     

      Whats ironic isthat you use Borderlands as an arguement that Destiny is unlike so Borederlands is Multiplayer and not an MMO , but oddly enough Borderlands and Destiny have more in common to eah other than either to any MMO ..

    • Both games are fully cooperative, with all missions, belonging to both the main story and side quests, being able to be played with multiple players(up to four in Borderlands, and up to six in Destiny.
    • Both games feature loot systems that give randomize loot as rewards for completing specific missions or challenges.
    • Both games feature unique weapons and armor with different stats and rarities.
    • Both games feature challenging raid quests that are lengthy and end with a boss fight typically tougher than anything in the main story.


      Neither Destiny or Borderlands a Persistent World , The game world needs to be persistent to meet the definition of a true MMORPG..

    Its as much an MMO as Guild Wars which Arena Net and the entire community does mot call it one.

        It's not a question of having similar ancillary mechanics. It's a question of scale. Period.

    It's multiplayer, but not massively-multiplayer. In gameplay areas, you can have: Three people in strikes, six in raids, six in patrol areas (up to two fireteams of three - I think this is slightly larger in Destiny 2).

    In social spaces - non-gameplay areas - you can have 15 (25 I believe in Destiny 2).

    If you're going to call this game an MMO, then by that same logic you'd be calling Battlefield an MMO, or Call of Duty an MMO.

    It's not an MMO. Realistically-speaking, it's actually pretty ridiculous to think otherwise.



    From the Destiny Devs..

    Asked as part of the latest Bungie Weekly Update if the studio ever gets tired of people called Destiny an MMO, the developer said it enjoys the constant debate about how to classify the game.

    "Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said. "The ideas that are shaping Destiny come from a lot of different places. We're drawing the best elements from experiences we love. Like an MMO, our game will compel you to explore."

    "You'll embody a character that evolves on that journey. Unlike an MMO, the entire experience is built around heart-pounding action that you'll see through the eyes of your hero," Bungie went on. "Ultimately, we're looking forward to knowing how you describe Destiny, once you've played it."







    I never said Destiny is a MMO. I said it is an MMO lite.  That is what some people call those type of games like The Division and Anthem.  They play like MMO. They are always online multiplayer. 

    Being an MMO is more than number of players.  The person who coined the term also included persistence in online world, character and server.  This holds true for all early MMORPG. It is the backbone of lots of players playing together.  One reason why the term is bad.

    Borderlands does not play like a MMO.  It is single player game with option coop.  Not nearly the same thing.

    Bungie purposely distanced themselves from MMORPG.  Doesn't mean the game doesn't play like one.
    klash2def
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
    Sorry I killied your grass.  I will get off it lol.  MMO lite has been a term for a long time now.  
    Would mmo-lite just be considered an MO. Like Destiny 2 is an MOFPSRPG.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    The problem with MMO lite is that it doesn't mean anything and just plain contradicting. 

    The argument use to be calling a game that is clearly not an MMO, and MMO. The argument presented was that the words "Massively Multiplayer" actually has a meaning. It means there is a "Massive number of players" online in this game. We argued back and forth about what that meant and so on, but for this particular argument, that part doesn't even matter.

    What you guys are saying here is MMO LITE means something. I can't mean anything because Massively Multiplayer Online Lite does not make sense. 

    I think what you need to do is look at the OTHER descriptor for the game and add 'lite' to that instead.

    RPG lite? Maybe. FPS lite? Perhaps, but Massively Multiplayer Lite? It does not make sense. It does nothing. 

    Find something better.
    It makes more sense then MMO on its own. Lite generally means diet or imitation.  A game that emulates an MMO but not an MMO being called MMO lite makes sense.  If there is any confusion it is what is an MMO.  Those of us who have been playing know but the acynoym is piss poor.
    How about MMO Free or Fat Free MMO? My choice would be MMO Zero.
    ChildoftheShadowsScorchienklash2def
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    The problem with MMO lite is that it doesn't mean anything and just plain contradicting. 

    The argument use to be calling a game that is clearly not an MMO, and MMO. The argument presented was that the words "Massively Multiplayer" actually has a meaning. It means there is a "Massive number of players" online in this game. We argued back and forth about what that meant and so on, but for this particular argument, that part doesn't even matter.

    What you guys are saying here is MMO LITE means something. I can't mean anything because Massively Multiplayer Online Lite does not make sense. 

    I think what you need to do is look at the OTHER descriptor for the game and add 'lite' to that instead.

    RPG lite? Maybe. FPS lite? Perhaps, but Massively Multiplayer Lite? It does not make sense. It does nothing. 

    Find something better.
    It makes more sense then MMO on its own. Lite generally means diet or imitation.  A game that emulates an MMO but not an MMO being called MMO lite makes sense.  If there is any confusion it is what is an MMO.  Those of us who have been playing know but the acynoym is piss poor.
    How about MMO Free or Fat Free MMO? My choice would be MMO Zero.
    The term has been used for 12 years get over it lol. 

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    The problem with MMO lite is that it doesn't mean anything and just plain contradicting. 

    The argument use to be calling a game that is clearly not an MMO, and MMO. The argument presented was that the words "Massively Multiplayer" actually has a meaning. It means there is a "Massive number of players" online in this game. We argued back and forth about what that meant and so on, but for this particular argument, that part doesn't even matter.

    What you guys are saying here is MMO LITE means something. I can't mean anything because Massively Multiplayer Online Lite does not make sense. 

    I think what you need to do is look at the OTHER descriptor for the game and add 'lite' to that instead.

    RPG lite? Maybe. FPS lite? Perhaps, but Massively Multiplayer Lite? It does not make sense. It does nothing. 

    Find something better.
    It makes more sense then MMO on its own. Lite generally means diet or imitation.  A game that emulates an MMO but not an MMO being called MMO lite makes sense.  If there is any confusion it is what is an MMO.  Those of us who have been playing know but the acynoym is piss poor.
    How about MMO Free or Fat Free MMO? My choice would be MMO Zero.
    The term has been used for 12 years get over it lol. 

    According to your responses in this thread, I would say it's you who needs to get over it. Can't even take a joke.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    The problem with MMO lite is that it doesn't mean anything and just plain contradicting. 

    The argument use to be calling a game that is clearly not an MMO, and MMO. The argument presented was that the words "Massively Multiplayer" actually has a meaning. It means there is a "Massive number of players" online in this game. We argued back and forth about what that meant and so on, but for this particular argument, that part doesn't even matter.

    What you guys are saying here is MMO LITE means something. I can't mean anything because Massively Multiplayer Online Lite does not make sense. 

    I think what you need to do is look at the OTHER descriptor for the game and add 'lite' to that instead.

    RPG lite? Maybe. FPS lite? Perhaps, but Massively Multiplayer Lite? It does not make sense. It does nothing. 

    Find something better.
    It makes more sense then MMO on its own. Lite generally means diet or imitation.  A game that emulates an MMO but not an MMO being called MMO lite makes sense.  If there is any confusion it is what is an MMO.  Those of us who have been playing know but the acynoym is piss poor.
    How about MMO Free or Fat Free MMO? My choice would be MMO Zero.
    The term has been used for 12 years get over it lol. 

    According to your responses in this thread, I would say it's you who needs to get over it. Can't even take a joke.
    Liza110 said:

    I am matured woman, my name is Maya lives in Delhi City, currently I have become the part of Aerocity Call Girls Agency and providing this service to the matured persons only.

    Aerocity Call Girls

    There you go.
    klash2def
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,972
    It's still the same ol' arguments 'round these parts.  

    Semantics really mean nothing... we can call it an MMO, a "CORPG", a "Shared World Shooter", a "Toucan in a Party Dress", an "MMO Lite", a "Hub Based MORPG" --  it doesn't matter what you call them, it doesn't change what they are.

    What's the point really?  Even "True MMOs" still instance content, cap areas, and even if they didn't WHO CARES, when was the last time you had more than 100 people in an area that you could see? GW2's WvW? Did it somehow make the game more enjoyable?

    I don't know, I think people make a big deal about pigeon holing games into their own definitions too often, and honestly ask any 10 users on this site what an MMO is, they'll all give you a different answer, and they're all wrong, or maybe they're all right...  but that nobody can pin down the exact definition is fairly telling. 

    And another question, is a game an MMO if the server can handle 1 million people in the same persistent world, but you only ever see 30 at a time?  How different is it than games that allow 100 people in a persistent world and yet you always see 40 people everywhere you go?  


    klash2def



  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    The problem with MMO lite is that it doesn't mean anything and just plain contradicting. 

    The argument use to be calling a game that is clearly not an MMO, and MMO. The argument presented was that the words "Massively Multiplayer" actually has a meaning. It means there is a "Massive number of players" online in this game. We argued back and forth about what that meant and so on, but for this particular argument, that part doesn't even matter.

    What you guys are saying here is MMO LITE means something. I can't mean anything because Massively Multiplayer Online Lite does not make sense. 

    I think what you need to do is look at the OTHER descriptor for the game and add 'lite' to that instead.

    RPG lite? Maybe. FPS lite? Perhaps, but Massively Multiplayer Lite? It does not make sense. It does nothing. 

    Find something better.
    It makes more sense then MMO on its own. Lite generally means diet or imitation.  A game that emulates an MMO but not an MMO being called MMO lite makes sense.  If there is any confusion it is what is an MMO.  Those of us who have been playing know but the acynoym is piss poor.
    How about MMO Free or Fat Free MMO? My choice would be MMO Zero.
    ok i loled... 
    MrMelGibson
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,820
    edited October 2018
    It's still the same ol' arguments 'round these parts.  

    Semantics really mean nothing... we can call it an MMO, a "CORPG", a "Shared World Shooter", a "Toucan in a Party Dress", an "MMO Lite", a "Hub Based MORPG" --  it doesn't matter what you call them, it doesn't change what they are.

    What's the point really?  Even "True MMOs" still instance content, cap areas, and even if they didn't WHO CARES, when was the last time you had more than 100 people in an area that you could see? GW2's WvW? Did it somehow make the game more enjoyable?

    I don't know, I think people make a big deal about pigeon holing games into their own definitions too often, and honestly ask any 10 users on this site what an MMO is, they'll all give you a different answer, and they're all wrong, or maybe they're all right...  but that nobody can pin down the exact definition is fairly telling. 

    And another question, is a game an MMO if the server can handle 1 million people in the same persistent world, but you only ever see 30 at a time?  How different is it than games that allow 100 people in a persistent world and yet you always see 40 people everywhere you go?  


    very good points here, although I don't agree with it all but thank you.  I said some of these things in my OP check the section that says ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: SIZE vs EXPERIENCE...

    Its different for everyone, and the more the genre changes from the original blueprint, the more people are gonna have different opinions of what a MMO is.  For me personally I am having a MMO experience in games like Destiny even if its presented differently, I am able to recognize all the obvious MMO parts there. I don't know what else to call a game with Raids, Dungeons, dynamic events, character progression, guilds, item tiers, PVP, all in a persistent online world.. other than a MMO. The difference to me is if it has a lot of players per shard or not. If it only allows 25 players but it has all those features, then to me its a MMO-Lite. This is my  opinion though. 

    The thing with these threads though is people (gamervets) come in simply to attack the person not understand them. They don't speak in order to understand, its all about trying to measure e peens and attack any pov that's not like theirs. Then you get the posters who have cheerleaders that defend everything they say and its becomes a mess.. In my OP I even asked people to hear me out before they attack me and literally 95% of the comments have been attacks. 

    When that happens the thread turns into the person being attacked for having a POV defending themselves. Its not about discourse its about winning. I made this thread to have discourse about MMO-Lites and MMOs. There hasn't been much, your post is one of the few so I appreciate your POV, I don't agree with all of it (I think MMO-Lite can be defined as a type of MMO) but you made some valid points. 

    That's all I asked from people is to think about what's being said. I never asked for everyone to agree. I don't give a shit if everyone agrees with me or not because its my opinion lol
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


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