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Why don't more sandbox/open world MMOs like Ashes of Creation add PVE servers?



  • RhomsRhoms Member UncommonPosts: 174
    btdt said:
    Rhoms said: I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me.  
    Problem is, your kills in PVP aren't any more consequential.  It's not like you walk around with the ears of your victims around your neck.  What you want is a smarter adversary, but only so smart.

    Imagine if you kill some NPC.  Nothing special to it.  It dopped a few copper and you gained a little XP.  Then as you roamed the country side, you noticed that some of the NPCs seemed to actually be stalking you.  While you were sitting to rest, you get ambushed by two of them.  For what?  You think?  As the beating ensues, they claim the right of revenge of their kinsman.  You run for your life and they chase you.  They keep chasing you.  They don't stop chasing you.  So you decide to turn and fight. You defeat them and think nothing more of it.

    The next day you log on and enter a small village.  You are completely overwhelmed by the villagers and killed.

    PVE can be just as thrilling and exhilarating as PVP, only it takes a lot more work to write a game that does all that.  PVP is simple.  You just add players to a world and let the mayhem ensue or not ensue... because it really is all player driven.

    In games with good PVP, it can be consequential.  As an example, through conflict, territory and resource control can ebb and flow between factions.  Conflict between players can create and drive the game's story.

    I completely see your point, and I 100% agree that PVE can be done better.  It should be done better.  My contention is that at the end of the day, you're just fighting the computer.  I can only get so much mileage out of that.

    I think this discussion illustrates a point - in the post-WoW world, it's hard for a MMO to be all things to all people.  It's hard to cater to a lot of different play styles and do it well.  I imagine that most developers can juggle three balls, but toss in a fourth or fifth and they will drop all of them.  We all have different wants, drives, and preferences.  The good thing is that more upcoming MMOs are starting to pick up on this and cater to a more niche audience.  

    Current game: Pillars of Eternity

    Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2 

    Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO 

    Future: Camelot Unchained?  Crowfall?  Bless?

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,274
    edited June 2018
    btdt said:
    Rhoms said: I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me.  
    What you want is a smarter adversary, but only so smart... So much this...

    In EVE you attack a group of small Sleeper probe ships, hoping to score some rare but vital components.  As the beating ensues, they summon a swarm of their much larger and deadly Battleship class brothers and unless you happen to have a your Carrier or Dreadnaught class ship handy you run for your life and they chase you.

    They keep chasing you, into the next system even. They don't stop chasing you no matter how far you run, so you decide to turn and fight.  You die horribly. 

    Or you dock up in a nearby station, safe from harm.  You undock a hour later and they are still there waiting and you die horribly.

    The next day you log on after downtime resets everything and thankfully the sleepers are gone.

    You decide the reward doesn't equal the risk (because even capital ships don't necessarily prevail these fights) and go back to shooting rocks with mining lasers.

    While not thought of as a PVE game, EVE has actually done a good job at creating dangerous NPC encounters and added some intelligence to them.

    Anyone who has done this content knows the pain of wormhole Sleepers wrecking a carrier or Dread, True Sansha's incursions pirates breaking through and shredding very expensive player pirate vessels (they always blame the shield repping squad), or get their multi billion ISK Tengu popped in the last room of a 10/10 escalation. 

    What players do want is content they can beat, perhaps not always but certainly consistently once they learn how to.

    Why PVP isn't acceptable as an alternative in MMOs is often times there is no way for them to prevail as their human opponents refuse to cooperate and offer a predictable and fair fight.

    If NPCs were coded to react as humans do many players wouldn't accept it, hence the gameplay delivered so often today.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • SpiiderSpiider Member RarePosts: 746
    Wingclip said:
    wurm online does what you want and is about as sandbox as they come.
    Best and most complex sandbox that ever existed in history of mankind. It has PVE and PVP and its only fault is its age. If Wurm got a new engine all other wannabe sandboxes would pack up and cease to exist.

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • uotowndrunk2uotowndrunk2 Member UncommonPosts: 20
    AoC deves have said that they there won't have pve servers because pvp is needed for the world to change. With no PvP = No Node wars = No change in the world. Will stay the same, Same dungeons same world bosses same events etc etc.

    I Never liked pvp but I get there point... Pvp i AoC is needed. If you want changes in the world.
    I understand where you are coming from, certainly I do. The ASH devs could certainly figure out a way to solve the problem for a PVE version.

    The chances are the real reason is more likely lack of resources, staff, and they are aiming for a specific niche of the global player-base.

    Personally, I want my PVE Sandbox with Realm Vs. Realm, until then, there are certainly other titles out there for me to invest my time in. ASH seems like a great title for those who want the type of play style being offered and I am sure most the subscribed player-base will love it.

    Bottom line, ASH devs can develop what they think will bring in the bacon or loyal player-base, but for one player looking for new game to be excited about, my money will stay in my bank.
  • ErevusErevus Member UncommonPosts: 94
    edited October 2018
    "So why not give PvP an option like it is in SWG, or VERY safe areas like in EVE? Why force pvp to those who don't want it? Sure EVE PvP can happen anywhere, but its far safer and that works too where danger is everywhere. I only ever got pvped when I left high sec to go to nullsec (which btw, nullsec in EVE is the safest areas in the game funny enough, low-sec is very dangerous, but barely anyone in nullsec when I played)"

    Because PvPers (no-lifers) are the ones who's rushing MMOs (biggest spenders) to become quickly powerful and so they can reach the (their) endgame which is eternal ganking.

    "We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing"

    Benjamin Franklin
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