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Best in Slot Gear - What Should Be Required to Get It?

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    edited October 2018
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?

    Look the ESO forums... people are arguing at at least 10 different builds for the same purpose (I won't say role, because it's more blurry than than in ESO)... with different skills and different gear; Depending on which skill you choose, you may want a total different armor set to be kinda "BIS". The number of combos is huge.

    In WoW, a specific class/spec will indeed have its "BIS" items. In ESO, just change one skill and you may want a totally different set.


    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,782
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    and even then there are several options for each skill combination.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    edited October 2018
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.

    As to your edit, yeah all kind of ignorant shit is said on the ESO forums lol. Look at Alcast, Woeler and those guys who actually crunch the numbers. You'll see the same BiS builds with the same skills and gear.

    And they are also very up to date and live on the PTS when skill changes, new gear and new skill lines come into the game and they test those and change the BiS where appropriate.
    Scorchien
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Important is that for most players, the OTHER item/skill combos will reveal being MORE efficient than the BIS for RAID ones.
    Unlike games like WoW, where BIS is BIS.
    bcbully
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Iselin
  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 753
    I always liked a variety of BiS items. In EQ, sure there were BiS items, but when they added focus effects, 1 item might be clearly the best for a slot, but if I had that effect already, it wasn't really best for me.

    I remember having 3 pieces of armor and a friend having a different 3, but we ended up with the same stats and foci. When combining pieces and adding in effects and bonuses, a BiS for a single item doesn't make it the optimal choice. 

    In other games I even kept a lesser piece for a set bonus that added unique skills that suited my playstyle.

    Also, there have been many times I have seen something listed as the BiS item, and I thought it was garbage. Someone might think haste is better, then a month later, its crit, then dodge to stay alive longer to do more damage.

    What is "best" changes so often that it is good to have multiple top tier items to let people decide what is best for them. That is why I always liked items that had special abilities. It really shakes up the idea of "best".




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Yup. My characters are 90% Redguard or Altmer for that reason. If I were serious about tanking I'd have a lizard in there too though.

    And Reguard women are hot! :)
    Scorchienblueturtle13Jean-Luc_Picard
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 1,379
    edited October 2018
    It should be found. Either from searching npc stores ,  players crafted shops all over a game world or from adventuring through caves , water, forests or mountains or even outtaspace . Sometimes one doesn't  need to be the elitist to have the epics. It should be adventure driven and equal for any to get. Like many have stated "Time is not a skill."

    I hate gear token grinds like lotro brought in and AoC and other games that ran out of ideas.


    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
    #BoycottChina
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Yup. My characters are 90% Redguard or Altmer for that reason. If I were serious about tanking I'd have a lizard in there too though.

    And Reguard women are hot! :)
    No mention to a Nord for tanking, as opposed to most of the community ?
    Strange, right....
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Yup. My characters are 90% Redguard or Altmer for that reason. If I were serious about tanking I'd have a lizard in there too though.

    And Reguard women are hot! :)
    No mention to a Nord for tanking, as opposed to most of the community ?
    Strange, right....
    Argonians after they got their racials buffed became the de facto best tanking race.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Yup. My characters are 90% Redguard or Altmer for that reason. If I were serious about tanking I'd have a lizard in there too though.

    And Reguard women are hot! :)
    No mention to a Nord for tanking, as opposed to most of the community ?
    Strange, right....
    Argonians after they got their racials buffed became the de facto best tanking race.
    More subjective based on the perception of buffs than objective.
    But whatever.

    Most people told me that tanking with a nighblade was silly. I'm still doing just fine.

    I also tanked my way up to heroic server firsts in WoW back when DK tanks were supposed to be the worse during WotLK.

    So yeah... number crunching is cute, but at the end, the player's play style and also skill makes a difference too. Even more in games like ESO based on skills more than classes.
    Torval
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    edited October 2018
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    There should be no such thing as best in slot. Your play style should determine whats best for you.

    See ESO.
    You're a PvPer not a raider. For PvP ESO is relatively BIS-free although some would argue that.

    For the highest difficulty raiding content and hitting 40K+ DPS there most certainly is BiS gear as well as BiS skills for each class and build.
    What percentage of the total content of the game is that specific content ?
    Tiny but that's the crowd that crunches and re-crunches numbers the most and they come up with consensus BiS decisions by putting in much more time into testing than you and I put into all of our gaming.

    I'm not promoting that kind of play and I'm usually the first to jump on posters who claim that ESO is all about the cookie cutter builds because for 95% of the game those builds are irrelevant.

    But irrelevant for most of us does not mean it isn't there.
    Yup it there and to add you better be the right race for your role  , or you numbers will fall behind , and you will be exposed and removed ...

      yes BIS race.. exists
    Yup. My characters are 90% Redguard or Altmer for that reason. If I were serious about tanking I'd have a lizard in there too though.

    And Reguard women are hot! :)
    No mention to a Nord for tanking, as opposed to most of the community ?
    Strange, right....
    Argonians after they got their racials buffed became the de facto best tanking race.
    More subjective based on the perception of buffs than objective.
    But whatever.

    Most people told me that tanking with a nighblade was silly. I'm still doing just fine.

    I also tanked my way up to heroic server firsts in WoW back when DK tanks were supposed to be the worse during WotLK.

    So yeah... number crunching is cute, but at the end, the player's play style and also skill makes a difference too. Even more in games like ESO based on skills more than classes.
    You can tank with any class and any race and you can also be a Nord sorcerer if you want. And as long as you live in the overland zones and normal dungeons you'll do just fine. Heck, with enough CP you'll even excel.

    There's still that best thing though and I bet you there aren't any Nord sorcerers getting invited to hard mode raids :)  You'll even get funny looks in Vet dungeons if you do that.

    Here is Alcast's top 3 recommended races for a raid tank:

    Argonian (Recommended)
    Imperial
    Orc

    And here is Woeler (the acknowledged #1 ESO tanking Guru)

    1. Argonian -> Extra healing output and input, plus a built in resource management system and a health bonus.
    2. Imperial -> 12% health is still a massive bonus that cannot be neglected.
    3. Nord / Orc -> Both have good tanking traits, but are not as strong as the ones listed above.

    Notice any similarities? :)
    Jean-Luc_Picard
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 841
    I wouldn't mind BiS, and all the different ways to earn them. I would just settle for the 2nd or 3rd BiS for the raid and arena PvP slots, as I never raid or get that deep into PvP, but think those that do should definitely be rewarded for their work.

    With that said, I think Raiding peeps and PvP peeps would need different Stats/Gear as the gameplay has different demands of the player. I don't think PvP gear should work outside of PvP, and I don't think Raid gear should work in PvP.

    The last thing I would want is for any slot to be earned with cash/cash shop shit.

    Crafting slots or maybe tools/shops could be BiS and earned by becoming Master Craftpeeps.

    If we don't have the time to invest in earning the BiS's, then we'll just have to settle for less than BiS...

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    edited October 2018
    No funny looks in Vet dungeons with my Nightblade tank though... but granted, I only do guild runs. It's been a while since I bothered enduring the retards in PUGs.

    In WoW too, it was only guild raids. And we had no problem being server first with our supposed non "BIS" compo, because well... maybe we were just good? Focused? Working as a better team? My raid leader back then was a guy who started during Vanilla as a Paladin tank and did all the content back then including Naxx with that spec. Anyone who played WoW back then knows what it means.

    The mold only exists if you let yourself being pushed into it.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    No funny looks in Vet dungeons with my Nightblade tank though... but granted, I only do guild runs. It's been a while since I bothered enduring the retards in PUGs.

    In WoW too, it was only guild raids. And we had no problem being server first with out supposed non "BIS" compo, because well... maybe we were just good? My raid leader back then was a guy who started during Vanilla as a Paladin tank and did all the content back then including Naxx with that spec. Anyone who played WoW back then knows what it means.

    The mold only exists if you let yourself being pushed into it.
    I love my NB healer/tank set-up. I can do both at once just fine :)
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,004
    Iselin said:
    I tend to agree with @Scorchien that as long as you have slots there will always be BIS just like there are best rotations and best ability builds in games that allow flexibility with those things as well.

    It's in the nature of most players, myself included, to test and push things to try to achieve the best results with our game play.

    But like I and others have already said in this thread, I much prefer having a range of BiS, best rotations and best skills for different situations and different types of game play.

    The part of the OP I didn't like was the implication that in order to obtain that one and only BiS you needed to partake in every different part of the game whether you wanted to or not since different parts of that BIS came from different types of game play.

    I already see where that idea leads and the resentment it causes in games like ESO where PvErs need to do some PvP to get a couple of abilities you can only get there that are essential to PvE builds and viceversa with PvPers needing to do some PvE content for gear essential for PvP (monster head and shoulders.)

    That kind of game design just rubs me the wrong way since I dislike forced anything in MMOs.
    Especially the forced "paying" part.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,983
    I don't like the idea of best in slot items. I like best tier of items sure, but not best actual item for any individual purpose. I really, really dislike PvP gear. It shouldn't exist. Also, a character in a RPG should not be a jack of all trades. It is even worse in an MMO where you have hundreds if not thousands of people running around, all professionals at everything.

    I always like the way UO did it. No best in slot. Just different tiers. Everything was based upon your skill. Everyone could equip the same items (well if your strength was low you'd have a hard time moving around in plate!). Everything was made by the community. You played your role. No switching "Plate of stupidface" for "Plate of fartface" so you could perform better in any particular dungeon or war. You had plate, it was plate. Plate was plate, leather was leather... You made your class. 


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    edited October 2018
    madazz said:
    I don't like the idea of best in slot items. I like best tier of items sure, but not best actual item for any individual purpose. I really, really dislike PvP gear. It shouldn't exist. Also, a character in a RPG should not be a jack of all trades. It is even worse in an MMO where you have hundreds if not thousands of people running around, all professionals at everything.

    I always like the way UO did it. No best in slot. Just different tiers. Everything was based upon your skill. Everyone could equip the same items (well if your strength was low you'd have a hard time moving around in plate!). Everything was made by the community. You played your role. No switching "Plate of stupidface" for "Plate of fartface" so you could perform better in any particular dungeon or war. You had plate, it was plate. Plate was plate, leather was leather... You made your class. 


    Ive been playing UO 21 years now , there absolutley is BIS for any encounter , my guild is raiding Osiredon this weekend , i will be bringing 4 bows with me that will handle the Boss and any adds , i will be wearing BiS jewelry for this encounter and the proper BiS armor for this encounter ..

      And to Add plate is not plate ..even in its base form different ores gave diffeerent resists , and be even further specialized and enhanced thru Imbueing ..

      Even in its earliest form UO plate chain and leather had different advantages .. Dependent on its base material



    This is a ss of what armor can be in UO its a Greater Artifact , there are better BiS , this is just an everyday piece of gear for me ..

      This is a weapon i had drop from a Ancient Wyrm and altho a Lesser Artifact its pull was quite nice and is a very nice weapon for general use and a BiS for general use two hand build with Lumberjacking ..

     

      This pile of Bows are for situational encounters .. many are BiS for said encounters .. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/254297431913529365/497172682626957313/unknown.png


    So as we can see , that even a Random Loot game which are my favortite from UO ,AC ,D&D online ,SWG and PG , each have Random Loot but each also have Rare named drops .. and/or the Loot Table still permits and turns out BiS and then can be Enhanced/Imbued/Traited etc if its short in some area ...
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,919
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    I tend to agree with @Scorchien that as long as you have slots there will always be BIS just like there are best rotations and best ability builds in games that allow flexibility with those things as well.

    It's in the nature of most players, myself included, to test and push things to try to achieve the best results with our game play.

    But like I and others have already said in this thread, I much prefer having a range of BiS, best rotations and best skills for different situations and different types of game play.

    The part of the OP I didn't like was the implication that in order to obtain that one and only BiS you needed to partake in every different part of the game whether you wanted to or not since different parts of that BIS came from different types of game play.

    I already see where that idea leads and the resentment it causes in games like ESO where PvErs need to do some PvP to get a couple of abilities you can only get there that are essential to PvE builds and viceversa with PvPers needing to do some PvE content for gear essential for PvP (monster head and shoulders.)

    That kind of game design just rubs me the wrong way since I dislike forced anything in MMOs.
    Especially the forced "paying" part.

    ;)
    I always sub to the MMOs I like and play. I have no problem whatsoever with "forced" subs.

    The nickle and dimeing of F2P game is a different story though and most of those can just go fuck themselves :)
    Jean-Luc_Picardmmolou
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • BrunlinBrunlin Member UncommonPosts: 78
    edited October 2018
        Well in the history of our genre we definitely have had a extreme range in the ways of filling our inventory slots. We have seen the days of hardcore poop socking, Im looking at you Everquest. To the days of Free to Play, where a Whale can come in buy a max level toon and in some games buy resources or in game currency to get easily a best of slot gear. 

      Obviously the days of being on a bat phone list, to get that call in the middle of the night just so the next guildie on the list might have a small shot of getting the item desired, is over. That being said, I personally think that getting the best in slot item is a big deal and should be kind of hard and it definitely shouldn't be acquired from a ingame store.  Im not a developer though and I imagine finding that sweet spot for your game base is kind of hard. 

     

    If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    I am going to say this again, as some people missed it the first.

    At First, GW2, did not have BiS gear. The game started with Exotic being the only level 80 gear, as such there was no other choice for Level Appropriate Gear. As such there was no BiS gear Tier, there was only what was appropriate for your level.

    Again, this was before Ascended was introduced. 

    On top of that, there was no "Obvious" choice what gear was better for a class or a build, as their is still discussions going on for 6+ years now on which gear combinations are in fact meta. Case in point the Zerker Ele vs the Cele Ele, it's still not resolved which is in fact better.

    With that said, Ascended only further muddied what gear stat combo's were in fact better, and Infusions only added to the mess. before I left, there was a lot of contention on which is better, Vipers vs Marauders. A lot of this is very play style dependent and not simply a number crunched "BiS". Meta is always in flux in that game.

    So.. no.. GW2, did not have BiS gear when it first came out. And while Legendary is the current BiS type of gear, there is still no specific stat combo that is really BiS.

    And in a final note, Situational Gear is the Antitheses to BiS, as gear that is situational by the nature of being Situational, is not the best gear you can get, all gear value is contingent upon what you are dealing with as such, it's never truly "The Best in Slot" it is simply "Good for the Situation" 

    In Games like DDO, that never really gave you a myopic situation, there was no real BiS gear. There was a lot of gear that was very optimal for a variety of situations, like a prime example would be the Min II Greensteel weapons, they were a very good all around weapon that could be used for a variety of situations, in many cases, a solid go-to dependable weapon across a variety of situations, but, a Lit II Greensteel had better overall DPS if you didn't need to break DR. Now, a Lit II and a Min II were Raid gear, but.. if you were facing a Pit Fiend, a Holy Burst Silver Weapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane, would be a better choice, which was, as Irony would have it, not the best weapon to kill the Pit Fields Minions and Guards.

    But.. no.. situational weapons, are not BiS. If you need keep swapping your Armor, then neither of them are really BiS, as each is equal to the other for a different situation.. hence why you need to swap to begin with. 
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    edited October 2018
    your 100% wrong and all the reasons are already given in this thread .. yes Exotics were BiS at the time ..

              Yes DDO has BiS

      Yes situational gear  is BIS , to think otherwise is foolish if you enter a (particular raid) and the other Tank has Better Armor sword ..everything than you for ex .. Guess what you dont have BiS .. And you will be a lesser tank ...

      There may be discussions of which actual Class is better , but each class has BiS gear .. All you need to do is look up any game look at the gear .. One of them is going to best for your Build and or Sitation ..  There is no getting away from it ..

     This was/is a BiS wepaon from DDO ..http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sword_of_Shadow


         Draconic Exotic sets GW2 were BIS for a long time ..

     And there is always an obvious choice at end game there many resources to look up for any of these games that will give you exact builds in Skill and gear to achieve best output for any class/role/build

     and ill tell ya if you are not preparing your role/class for situational combat with BiS you will never raid seriuously in any of these games .. Thats where BiS is needed and demanded ..For situational BIS

    And ill add i just browsed the entire GW2 forums , i cant find anyone hotly debating anything
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    Asm0deus
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    and.. final note, @Scorchien

    Feel free to list the loot tables of GW2, and tell us all what the "Obvious" answer is for each class, as it's still being, in some cases, hotly disputed.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    edited October 2018
    Ungood said:
    and.. final note, @Scorchien

    Feel free to list the loot tables of GW2, and tell us all what the "Obvious" answer is for each class, as it's still being, in some cases, hotly disputed.
    Ascended gear with Agony and Stat infusions that will parse the best for your role wether thats DPS /Healing etc.. or survivability to tank in Fractals

     here is a BIS DPS build that includes Gear/Skills/Rotations/Specializations ..  to achive highest DPS



     there are Builds for BIS builds for every class/raid/situation pve or pvp ..

     There is no escaping..

     These games are built on Math

     Math is always true , and Math cant be disputed , when tested and these are heavily on pArse they deliver , Now a player can fail , and not dleiver the DPS needed , But then your Player is actually not the BiS for your raid and you need to find another ..
     And if you notice there are encounter specific tweaks to each build at the bottom ..Its imporatnt to know that situational BIS is important at end game raiding ..

     These builds even go as far as to include the best Sigils to maximize Synergies .. very well done-

     And ill ad i just browsed the entire GW2 forums , i saw nothing being Hotly debated , pretty tame tbh

    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,642
    I think what people dont want is BiS to apply to every situation that every class and character has it. Essentially, every char would have it and there would be no diversity. That is what people dont want.

    What is unavoidable is BiS-situations which is always a given in any combat game and is unavoidable.


    Scorchien
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
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