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Telltale Games...let the lawsuits begin

TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,163
in General Gaming
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/25/17901106/telltale-layoffs-lawsuit-warn-act
SWG Bloodfin vet
Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
 

Comments

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    Most states are hire/fire at will employment states.  Will be interesting to see how that conflicts with this WARN act. that the lawsuit is bringing up.  

    I've got the straight edge.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,351
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    If, as seems to be the suggestion, TT has simply "run out of money" a) TT may not even exist when this gets to court b) TT won't have the money to defend even if they do exist c) ex-employees will probably be able to join others who end up neing owed money.

    Worth a shot though in case there are assets to be sold etc.
  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 2,107
    This is soooo mmorpg related. Totally suitable for an MMORPG discussion forum and not the General Gaming one. 
    esc-joconnor
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    On a positive note, there have been stories (unverified by me) about other companies reaching out to these newly jobless former employees.

    The phrase, "You can't get blood from a stone." comes to mind. I guess a moral victory is the goal here?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    Octagon7711
     
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    edited September 2018
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Interitus

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    edited September 2018
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    IselinMadFrenchie
     
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    This kind of law seem to catch them off guard and doesn't really do what it is intended to do.
    Yes this law will likely work here and give the employees some recourse but what will happen in the future is exactly what happens here,these businesses will make sure to have less employees and just open up subsidiary businesses even though in reality all working for the same business and same cause.
    They will simply put the added employees into a different business number/name even though might even be showing up for work at the exact same building.Telltale was simply blind to the laws or i am sure would have covered their ass and made this law obsolete.
    The other obvious ability is to just keep the majority of employees as part time then depending on labor laws might force them to hire more workers to keep the hours down or if the laws are slack just put the less essential workers under the part time tag.

    I am also certain that they were totally blind to the law or they would have simply given them warning 60 days out but then again this laws shows it's lack of thought because then it handcuffs the business in many ways that i am sure people can realize.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    Wizardry said:
    This kind of law seem to catch them off guard and doesn't really do what it is intended to do.
    Yes this law will likely work here and give the employees some recourse but what will happen in the future is exactly what happens here,these businesses will make sure to have less employees and just open up subsidiary businesses even though in reality all working for the same business and same cause.
    They will simply put the added employees into a different business number/name even though might even be showing up for work at the exact same building.Telltale was simply blind to the laws or i am sure would have covered their ass and made this law obsolete.
    The other obvious ability is to just keep the majority of employees as part time then depending on labor laws might force them to hire more workers to keep the hours down or if the laws are slack just put the less essential workers under the part time tag.

    I am also certain that they were totally blind to the law or they would have simply given them warning 60 days out but then again this laws shows it's lack of thought because then it handcuffs the business in many ways that i am sure people can realize.
    A company with 300 people knows local employment laws.

    There's a story in variety.com about how e-mail was shut down immediately, employees were asked to vacate the building in 30 minutes, and and were given 3 hours next Monday to fetch their personal belongings. 
      https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/telltale-games-the-walking-dead-studio-closure-1202955309/

    Telltale games knew and tried to prevent their former employees from organizing.
    MadFrenchieKyleranOctagon7711
     
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387
    Damn and I love 7 Days to Die... now the console version will be even more behind now.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    No one has a moral obligation for anything. I guess "me first" rules, eh? I'm not for the Telltale head honchos making out like bandits, but when people sue, they never think about anyone but their own skins.

    "Let's sue the Government!" And where does this money come from? You and me through taxes. People don't care. They want an easy ride. Business, in opposition to today's "fairness climate", is cutthroat, not fair.

    Kids today are so NOT ready for the real world it scares me. In the real world, there ARE winners and losers. There IS competition and no one is "owed" anything simply for showing up.

    What exactly will these people gain form this costly lawsuit?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    edited September 2018
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    No one has a moral obligation for anything. I guess "me first" rules, eh? I'm not for the Telltale head honchos making out like bandits, but when people sue, they never think about anyone but their own skins.
    I disagree, because suing helps prevent future infringements. Not standing up to your rights will not make the world a better place - it will make the world a place where your rights are trampled over again, and again, and again.
    FlyByKnightIselinMadFrenchieOctagon7711AlBQuirkyJeffSpicoli
     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,498
    edited September 2018
    AlBQuirky said:
     

    What exactly will these people gain form this costly lawsuit?
    Nothing more than the wages and benefits which are protected by law which in California is 60 days notice.
    Octagon7711AlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2018
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    No one has a moral obligation for anything. I guess "me first" rules, eh? I'm not for the Telltale head honchos making out like bandits, but when people sue, they never think about anyone but their own skins.
    I disagree, because suing helps prevent future infringements. Not standing up to your rights will not make the world a better place - it will make the world a place where your rights are trampled over again, and again, and again.
    Agreed.  In the end, it isn't left solely to the complainants to determine what they are entitled to from a suit.

    Many suits end in reparations that don't meet the damages claimed by the complainant at the onset of the suit.  Part of the court's job is to verify not only that the complainant was damaged, but that the defendant only makes reparations for the actual damage done, not necessarily what the complainant claims is the damage done.
    AlBQuirky

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    No one has a moral obligation for anything. I guess "me first" rules, eh? I'm not for the Telltale head honchos making out like bandits, but when people sue, they never think about anyone but their own skins.
    I disagree, because suing helps prevent future infringements. Not standing up to your rights will not make the world a better place - it will make the world a place where your rights are trampled over again, and again, and again.
    Not only that but when a company goes into bankruptcy everyone owed money will try to get what they can from the remaining assets. These employees are doing nothing more than what every creditor does. Their amount just happens to be limited to the 2 month's wages they are owed. It's why a class action is the only type of lawsuit that makes sense for them.

    There have also been several cases where the court has found that the WARN obligations need to be satisfied before the other creditors get to pick at the carcass so they actually have pretty good odds of getting that.
    AlBQuirky
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    The first rule of lawsuits is that you can't sue someone who doesn't have any money.  Or rather, maybe you can, but you don't get anything for winning.  And if they have plenty of money, then why are they shutting down?
    They still have money to keep that skeleton crew winding down operations, and they might have some money from license fees and sales of property incoming. Even if the employees don't get paid in full, there's no reason why the employees shouldn't sue to get a share of that money as long as there's some money to share.
    And then place the current last 25 employees in the same boat?
    Bankruptcy can continue operations with a skeleton crew and pay that skeleton crew first as long as there's good reason. At least that's how the system works in my country.

    Fired workers don't have any moral or legal obligation abandon their share of the money so that investors and businessmen who are also owed money would get more.
    No one has a moral obligation for anything. I guess "me first" rules, eh? I'm not for the Telltale head honchos making out like bandits, but when people sue, they never think about anyone but their own skins.
    I disagree, because suing helps prevent future infringements. Not standing up to your rights will not make the world a better place - it will make the world a place where your rights are trampled over again, and again, and again.
    You are right, of course. And me a person who likes to stand on principles should have seen that. Well done ;)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


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