You guys seem upset that Devs aren’t listening to you and that game isn’t fun anymore. Isn’t this the same complaint every expansion? The Devs are completely wrong and you’re absolutely right about the game design? Guys, move on to another game.
Yes, I came back - Paying <- customer<br />
We deserve more commitment, the service we are getting is free to play service, if this continues there is know reason not to leave and play a F2P -
WOW - you guys need to be better than the rest if you want to keep customers - ask yourself - why should someone pay for this, then why would someone sub for this
admit you messed up - apologize or offer FREE incentive - don't try and pull a distraction with classic announcement and ignore all the issues - address them
like i said i came back for BFA from an absence sub for 3months - question is why would i continue my sub with lack of service?
You guys seem upset that Devs aren’t listening to you and that game isn’t fun anymore. Isn’t this the same complaint every expansion? The Devs are completely wrong and you’re absolutely right about the game design? Guys, move on to another game.
I still can remember the epic whining about class unbalances 13 years ago. This isn't something new. Unfortunately back then, devs listened to the crowd and flattened every class, so now they feel and play pretty much the same.
I loved my crap Paladin, who could only heal and only by wearing Cloth. Oh the tears of utter despair (with some cursing thrown in) from mages, when I rolled on their stuff...priceless. Those were the good times.
Definitely glad I bowed outa WoW years ago, I think the introduction of rng and progression based gear was the last straw for many that I knew still holding out for a return to the glory days. I can't fathom why so many people keep falling for this same thing over and over with these expansions.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Well the good news is, in 2 years, they will reinvent the game yet again... I'm guessing mobile WoW is their last frontier.
I'm waiting to see that happen. xD Their game engine is pretty bloated at this point with all the revisions it's gone through; they are close to hitting (if not already) a hardware ceiling in which the software itself just doesn't play well with anymore.
Mobile gaming for Blizzard is an almost certainty within the next decade.
While I understand Allen is the lead CM, he didn't design Azerite. So why not do a live Q&A with maybe someone from the design team that actually worked on it. Quitting during Wrath was easily one of the few times I made an actually good decision when it came to this game, and that's coming from someone who rolled hybrid on vanilla release.
Although now I'm having fond memories of Eyonix trying to level a paladin, and then the subsequent bus-shock from shamans. Man Vanilla drama was fantastic.
Blizzards actual customer service is pretty good. It's just the game design direction that's questionable. Unless you meant the game being provided as a service.
What's puzzling is they supposedly just learned this lesson and admitted that we do actually know. Yet, here we are on the amnesia treadmill where they just forgot the lesson that most recently spanked them. Go figure.
This is not just Blizzard. It's the universal arrogance of "insiders" everywhere when dismissing the concerns of the great unwashed. Most of those insiders hide it well - especially the marketing and PR people - but it does occasionally show through the cracks.
So yeah, they gave in on Vanilla WOW but the corporate culture did not change one bit nor will it ever change.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What's puzzling is they supposedly just learned this lesson and admitted that we do actually know. Yet, here we are on the amnesia treadmill where they just forgot the lesson that most recently spanked them. Go figure.
This is not just Blizzard. It's the universal arrogance of "insiders" everywhere when dismissing the concerns of the great unwashed. Most of those insiders hide it well - especially the marketing and PR people - but it does occasionally show through the cracks.
So yeah, they gave in on Vanilla WOW but the corporate culture did not change one bit nor will it ever change.
On the one hand, I get that you can't take customer feedback and just go "yea, let's do that," because customers generally aren't seeing the whole picture like devs are.
On the other, when I see devs admit that their system just isn't fun for players to experience but that there's not a lot to be done about it because it is the core experience, I have to wonder how those folks in charge arrived into the position to make such decisions regarding the direction of the game.
What's puzzling is they supposedly just learned this lesson and admitted that we do actually know. Yet, here we are on the amnesia treadmill where they just forgot the lesson that most recently spanked them. Go figure.
This is not just Blizzard. It's the universal arrogance of "insiders" everywhere when dismissing the concerns of the great unwashed. Most of those insiders hide it well - especially the marketing and PR people - but it does occasionally show through the cracks.
So yeah, they gave in on Vanilla WOW but the corporate culture did not change one bit nor will it ever change.
On the one hand, I get that you can't take customer feedback and just go "yea, let's do that," because customers generally aren't seeing the whole picture like devs are.
On the other, when I see devs admit that their system just isn't fun for players to experience but that there's not a lot to be done about it because it is the core experience, I have to wonder how those folks in charge arrived into the position to make such decisions regarding the direction of the game.
Because, according to the Peter Principle, those making the decisions have been promoted up to their level of incompetence
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I find Allen's post incredibly tone deaf and dismissive of valid concerns from the community. Honestly, he's not even a developer. If these answers are from the dev team, they should be attributed to people who coded and developed the system, not the community manager. At least we could feel "unheard" by the people who created this abysmal system.
I already voted with my wallet last month. Canceled both subs (mine and my son's).
Blizzard can shove this expansion up in their rear end!
There is some good that came from this expansion though. I am finally and totally cured from WoW! Won't be back anymore.
And this community manager response shows Blizzards true colors and what they have become. Incredibly Arrogant and totally tone deaf to their own community, who have been lining up their pockets the past decade.
All Blizzard cares about these days is e-Sports! So don't hold your hopes up with the upcoming Blizzcon. Other than WoW Classic, it will be all about e-Sports.
I find Allen's post incredibly tone deaf and dismissive of valid concerns from the community. Honestly, he's not even a developer. If these answers are from the dev team, they should be attributed to people who coded and developed the system, not the community manager. At least we could feel "unheard" by the people who created this abysmal system.
I think you nailed it with the words tone deaf. Games are supposed to be fun, this abomination is just the opposite. I enjoy playing alts and both Legion and this expansion make that almost impossible. Until they get a team that gets it, my time with Blizzard is done for now.
On the one hand, I get that you can't take customer feedback and just go "yea, let's do that," because customers generally aren't seeing the whole picture like devs are.
On the other, when I see devs admit that their system just isn't fun for players to experience but that there's not a lot to be done about it because it is the core experience, I have to wonder how those folks in charge arrived into the position to make such decisions regarding the direction of the game.
Absolutely true that we don't have the whole picture. That said I think the following is illustrative:
Back in the day EQ1 was the big fish. Rare spawns only appearing once a week (Evercamp!), boat trips taking 15 minutes and so forth. It was fun after a fashion but we can infer that the part of the whole picture we couldn't see was: include grind to retain subscribers. Ditto DAoC etc.
Along came (vanilla) WoW. It made things "fun", "intuitive", "exciting". And every 2 months for the first 2 years there was a (non-trivial) content drop. The whole picture seemed to be not about "grind" but about giving players lots and lots to do. Keep them so busy with content that they would stay subscribed. And it worked.
But creating content costs money. And today you get the impression that the whole picture looks a lot like what EQ1 had back in the day. Grind for the sake of grind.
And - maybe - people are responding by simply coming back for the new content and then going on to other games which have "continuing fun" in the picture rather than "fun for a month".
On the one hand, I get that you can't take customer feedback and just go "yea, let's do that," because customers generally aren't seeing the whole picture like devs are.
On the other, when I see devs admit that their system just isn't fun for players to experience but that there's not a lot to be done about it because it is the core experience, I have to wonder how those folks in charge arrived into the position to make such decisions regarding the direction of the game.
Absolutely true that we don't have the whole picture. That said I think the following is illustrative:
Back in the day EQ1 was the big fish. Rare spawns only appearing once a week (Evercamp!), boat trips taking 15 minutes and so forth. It was fun after a fashion but we can infer that the part of the whole picture we couldn't see was: include grind to retain subscribers. Ditto DAoC etc.
Along came (vanilla) WoW. It made things "fun", "intuitive", "exciting". And every 2 months for the first 2 years there was a (non-trivial) content drop. The whole picture seemed to be not about "grind" but about giving players lots and lots to do. Keep them so busy with content that they would stay subscribed. And it worked.
But creating content costs money. And today you get the impression that the whole picture looks a lot like what EQ1 had back in the day. Grind for the sake of grind.
And - maybe - people are responding by simply coming back for the new content and then going on to other games which have "continuing fun" in the picture rather than "fun for a month".
I suspect there are few games with continuing fun and most players are just hopping from title to title when it suits them to do so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Yes, I came back - Paying <- customer<br />
We deserve more commitment, the service we are getting is free to play service, if this continues there is know reason not to leave and play a F2P -
WOW - you guys need to be better than the rest if you want to keep customers - ask yourself - why should someone pay for this, then why would someone sub for this
admit you messed up - apologize or offer FREE incentive - don't try and pull a distraction with classic announcement and ignore all the issues - address them
like i said i came back for BFA from an absence sub for 3months - question is why would i continue my sub with lack of service?
This isn't something new.
Unfortunately back then, devs listened to the crowd and flattened every class, so now they feel and play pretty much the same.
I loved my crap Paladin, who could only heal and only by wearing Cloth.
Oh the tears of utter despair (with some cursing thrown in) from mages, when I rolled on their stuff...priceless.
Those were the good times.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Mobile gaming for Blizzard is an almost certainty within the next decade.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Although now I'm having fond memories of Eyonix trying to level a paladin, and then the subsequent bus-shock from shamans. Man Vanilla drama was fantastic.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
So yeah, they gave in on Vanilla WOW but the corporate culture did not change one bit nor will it ever change.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
On the other, when I see devs admit that their system just isn't fun for players to experience but that there's not a lot to be done about it because it is the core experience, I have to wonder how those folks in charge arrived into the position to make such decisions regarding the direction of the game.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Blizzard can shove this expansion up in their rear end!
There is some good that came from this expansion though. I am finally and totally cured from WoW! Won't be back anymore.
And this community manager response shows Blizzards true colors and what they have become. Incredibly Arrogant and totally tone deaf to their own community, who have been lining up their pockets the past decade.
All Blizzard cares about these days is e-Sports! So don't hold your hopes up with the upcoming Blizzcon.
Other than WoW Classic, it will be all about e-Sports.
Back in the day EQ1 was the big fish. Rare spawns only appearing once a week (Evercamp!), boat trips taking 15 minutes and so forth. It was fun after a fashion but we can infer that the part of the whole picture we couldn't see was: include grind to retain subscribers. Ditto DAoC etc.
Along came (vanilla) WoW. It made things "fun", "intuitive", "exciting". And every 2 months for the first 2 years there was a (non-trivial) content drop. The whole picture seemed to be not about "grind" but about giving players lots and lots to do. Keep them so busy with content that they would stay subscribed. And it worked.
But creating content costs money. And today you get the impression that the whole picture looks a lot like what EQ1 had back in the day. Grind for the sake of grind.
And - maybe - people are responding by simply coming back for the new content and then going on to other games which have "continuing fun" in the picture rather than "fun for a month".
WOW is just another game in their "rotation."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon