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Update: Cryptic Offers Insight Into Recent Neverwinter Ban Wave Over In-Game Exploit

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Comments

  • NeoyoshiNeoyoshi Member RarePosts: 567
    So i did a bit of light digging just to get the particulars surrounding the actual bug/glitch itself, and the steps necessary to perform the bug; and..... it's like a 4-5 step process and absolutely screams: "We are totally doing something unintended!"

    When a glitch/exploit actually requires "steps" to achieve the intended results, feigning ignorance is just not an acceptable option.

    This is definitely a "One strike and you're out"; situation- because of the nature of how this exploit works, a person would absolutely know they are doing something unintended.
    ScorchiencheyaneKyleranThaharCaptFabulousScotTacticalZombehOctagon7711NephethMrMelGibson


    Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,520
    I recall cheating once. I found a spot on the map in Vanguard where every time I moved across a certain "tile" this one particular skill would increase by a point or two.

    After walking across that spot enough times to max said skill I got to feeling guilty about doing it so I reported myself for exploiting.

    Never heard back, no idea if it was ever fixed, they never took away the SPs.

    I think though at the time they had bigger issues to contend with.


    blueturtle13Octagon7711BeezerbeezMrMelGibson

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917

    Scot said:

    Announcing exploits and telling players to be good sounds like a questionable move to me. Whatever sort of punishment occurs, however it occurs you will get players complaining it was not done right, or it went to far.



    This is a bit like a government telling people about a tax loophole or a TV company telling people how to get free TV. I see no evidence of why it will work better, but I do see evidence of disgruntled players complaining about bans. They always do.



    I completely agree, in fact, allowing exploits and then banning the players en masse completely misses the point that it was definitely the devs fault to begin with!

    They could have just as easily reverted the servers back to a previous save. That might have caused some dungeon hiccups but at least they wouldn't have made yet another bad situation for themselves! STO is just as bad. Cryptic right now is trying to push how "wonderful" Star Trek Discovery ( I mention this only because it's the same overall controlling company) if you even think of speaking out against STD content they ban you from the forums and block you on social media! Talk about idiotic.

  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    edited September 2018

    Scot said:

    Announcing exploits and telling players to be good sounds like a questionable move to me. Whatever sort of punishment occurs, however it occurs you will get players complaining it was not done right, or it went to far.



    This is a bit like a government telling people about a tax loophole or a TV company telling people how to get free TV. I see no evidence of why it will work better, but I do see evidence of disgruntled players complaining about bans. They always do.



    Na what you are saying is intellectually dishonest. Alot of people here are exhibiting it. There is a reason there are different words like exploiting and cheating as they are not the same and its dishonest to claim people who simply play a video game and experience a beneficial result due to incompetent coding and testing by the programmers are guilty of cheating.

    In fact is rather disgusting you have managed to wipe all responsibility from the product developers for their own inability to provide what the paying customer was promised in the purchase agreement. I guess this is why we are at the point people like you are buying "alpha access" to games.

    Sorry people who experience bugs are not cheaters, they are exploiting you can say depending on the nature of the bug, but its a far cry from cheating. I buy the game i play in the game world and if the game world is flawed from inept programmers thats does not nor NEVER will fall on me as the party culpable of guilt. Its not my job to test the product, its not my job to report things that seem questionable and its certainly not my job to make morale choices on what is or isnt intended by the developers or their meaningless ZERO value digital game world. Lord knows these companies will take your money and investments into the game and shut it down the moment it suits them best as you wave goodbye to everything you supposedly earned or invested in, so I cannot fathom how you can manage to blame the customer and twist crap coding and testing into "cheating".

    Maybe worse is your pathetic analogies poorly trying to rationalize mislabeling people as cheaters. Sorry specifically altering cable lines to steal cable is not the same thing as playing the game you paid to have access to and encountering inept workmanship on the product. A better analogy would be signing up for basic cable watching tv all month only to have the cable company charge you with theft because one of their employee's erroneously gave you the deluxe channel package in error and you watched some of the channels. I hope that can help better understand these people did NOT CHEAT no different that the person who was given the deluxe package didnt steal. The proper resolution is for the company to apologize for their errors and appropriately take back any unintentional gains due to their faulty product coding.
  • Pryor0nFirePryor0nFire Member CommonPosts: 1
    edited September 2018

    Kyleran said:

    Oh no, I'm sure bans are sorted out along the lines of,

    1) spends lots in cash shop on a regular basis, short, temporary ban, maybe none at all if really good customer. (Just a stern warning perhaps)
    2) spends minor amounts or hasn't spent in a while, longer but still temporary bans.

    3) totally f2p customer....perma bans.


    ;)

    Sounds about right. I definitely took part of the exploit, and I have probably put a good $200+ into Neverwinter since I started playing, and I got a 3-day suspension. Haven't checked to see if they removed my AD or anything like that.

    As far as the bans go, I don't agree with the level that they took it too, and the severity of giving permanent bans for this. I'm not denying that it is wrong to take part in it, and that there should be some consequences for it, however I think it should have been suspensions, and losing of the astral diamonds earned perhaps but this is hardly an exploit worth permanent account ban.

    Again it's not a justification for the offense per se, but when you have this many people doing it (entire day of the event you could see hundreds of people forming groups just to take part of this exploit, where it was commonplace) you have to take a step back and look at the big picture. For example, say people are speeding on a highway. Individually they can all be given speeding tickets, however if the vast majority of all the vehicles traveling on the roadway are going above the speed limit the State Highway Administration is supposed to verify that and then potentially raise the speed limit based on the average speeds of the vehicles on it. So in this case since it was so widespread, cryptic should have released a message before hand that states we are aware of the exploit and any continued use will result in a ban. Then those who stop & only took part before the warning only received the minor suspensions, whereas those who continue to abuse it get their accounts revoked.
    darkhearts
  • NeverwinteristrashNeverwinteristrash Member CommonPosts: 1
    So it's ok for them to ban a player of 600 days who has spent over 4 grand and has 700 million astral diamonds or my friend who has over 7 billion astral diamonds all earned legit? This was a bait and purge tactic to remove all elites from the game. Good luck scrubby going through dungeons without the big time players and good luck getting the things crafted you need crafted and good luck getting the things you need in the auction house because we elites are the ones that make everything possible for the scrubs they don't want people with millions of astral who don't spend real cash playing the game. Yeah well guess what it took us players years to get there a lot of work. And you spat in the face of your most die hard players. EVERYONE was doing it and the guys I know who were small fries are back in the game. While all my people who have 100s
    Of millions of astral are still banned. Bait and purge was the plan.
    tomahawk1930NephethMrMelGibson
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    Nhisso13 said:

    Scot said:

    Announcing exploits and telling players to be good sounds like a questionable move to me. Whatever sort of punishment occurs, however it occurs you will get players complaining it was not done right, or it went to far.



    This is a bit like a government telling people about a tax loophole or a TV company telling people how to get free TV. I see no evidence of why it will work better, but I do see evidence of disgruntled players complaining about bans. They always do.



    No. This is like you discovering a way to steal cable and then getting in trouble. The devs didnt tell people to do the exploit. Grow up
    Have we got crossed wires here? I am saying that the articles idea that the company should announce the exploit is not a good one. Indeed being grown up about it is something that players who followed a four stage process to cheat and then got banned should be able to do.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    edited September 2018
    I mean lets say a player is playing a game and for some reason their spell causes the enemy just to stand there while you attack it out of range, whose fault is it so you win every time and get Boss Loot.

    Intentionally abusing an exploit is one thing, but the company has to let the public / players know it's an exploit first as users may not be aware of everything being an exploit.

    The Developers of Never Winter, are just like those of SBI, from what I hear they ported a version of the game over from PC which had the bug Fixed to Console, but didn't port the proper version, then didn't let the public know to those who never knew it was an exploit to stop doing it first.

    The Game Company is clearly at fault for not telling people, yet both companies SBI, and Never Winter, which to my knowledge is located in California both have made the same mistakes of trying to pin everything on the consumer end.

    It's not a players job to know what is a bug, and an exploit, they do not code the game, and "Never Winter" / ARC GAMES is based around "CENSORSHIP" and removing forum posts or questions of incidents like this.

    The best thing a company can do if a player finds an exploit is let the player know not to do it anymore because it's not intended and is cheating, and can result in a ban, if a lot of people are doing it then the best thing is to.

    A.) Disable the content until it's fixed.
    B.) Post a public notice so no one can miss it warning players not to do it, and put an I Agree box on the front page of the game.

    But the big issue is bad development and decisions.
  • Gunk1966Gunk1966 Member CommonPosts: 1
    edited September 2018
    Some people, Maegeddo is one of them, are whiny little children, screaming EVERYONE banned, game the over it wont survive, blah blah blah. well your are wrong, not only will we survive, we will thrive without cheaters, we always have and always will. The perma ban came on a YouTuber who posted how to get by the exploit to those of his channel willing to pay him, read the letter, its whiners whining because they have sand in their ginas. Cheat, get banned, u were warned once, and only those who continue to use the exploit got banned, those who posted how to get around the first fix got perma banned AFTER they were warned if they continued they would get banned per the ToS. Tell the truth, lying scumbags. Cheaters suck period, stop complaining and go on to another game please , we dont need your type in Neverwinter, the market was flooded with 100's of millions of AD, that would not have been there without these cheaters, Neverwinter and their Dev have been fighting a up hill battle with cheaters, from gold spammers(gone btw thanks to cryptic, and the game better for it.), to these recent cheaters(again thanks for banning cheaters, it makes honest players happier). You are messing up the game for those of us playing it honestly.
    [Deleted User]ScotTacticalZombehMrMelGibson
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    This is why I always go out of my way to progress as slowly as possible in games.  No reason to ban me when I'm the loser still at level 25!

    My lack of progression definitely doesn't have anything to do with my acute inability to remain focused over large periods of time.  No way.
    tomahawk1930TacticalZombeh

    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    So it's ok for them to ban a player of 600 days who has spent over 4 grand and has 700 million astral diamonds or my friend who has over 7 billion astral diamonds all earned legit? This was a bait and purge tactic to remove all elites from the game. Good luck scrubby going through dungeons without the big time players and good luck getting the things crafted you need crafted and good luck getting the things you need in the auction house because we elites are the ones that make everything possible for the scrubs they don't want people with millions of astral who don't spend real cash playing the game. Yeah well guess what it took us players years to get there a lot of work. And you spat in the face of your most die hard players. EVERYONE was doing it and the guys I know who were small fries are back in the game. While all my people who have 100s
    Of millions of astral are still banned. Bait and purge was the plan.
    Somebody who spent 4k and has 700 million whatever in game AND cheated, how does a person like this not just punch themselves in the face when looking in the mirror.  :D

    Regardless, bad code + bad policy = bad game
    Gunk1966MrMelGibson
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    This also isn't the first incident with "Cryptic".

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/2cyliy/cryptic_please_be_careful_with_bans/ 

    https://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/player-banned-over-ridiculous-fair-use-policy/ 

    https://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/mass-bans-friday-return-keygate/ 

    https://forum.nwo-uncensored.com/viewtopic.php?t=1718 

    Multiple instances on record with Cryptic using "Script ban systems" in some cases hitting innocent accounts, and Censorship.

    I would highly recommend avoiding game companies such as Cryptic, which go as low as "Censorship" rather than "Sticky a topic" and answer questions related to the incident on their own forums, and when players have to create a blog to discuss incidents, aka "NWO Uncensored" that tells you right there something is going on.

    Never thought I would see another game company doing these types of actions but Guess I am glad that it was pointed out to me so I never waste Real Money in any of their services, would hate to lose an account for No reason, and would rather play a F2P game with a reputable company which there are plenty out there.

    To this day I've never really heard anything about Rune Scape, and innocent players getting banned on a massive scale without reason and that game for example has been around for ages.
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Nhisso13 said:
    Cant believe the amount of entitled snowflakes that are crying that cheating isnt tolerated
    Agree 100%
    I just watched a bunch of You Tube video's from these guys crying how its not their fault they cheated and PWE should have fixed to not temped them. I swear this is one of the reasons the mmo genre is fading out. The people that play them are mostly like these clowns. I don't blame the AAA companies for not wanting to deal with mmo players anymore.
    klash2defKyleran[Deleted User]MrMelGibson
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    edited September 2018
    Hariken said:
    Nhisso13 said:
    Cant believe the amount of entitled snowflakes that are crying that cheating isnt tolerated
    Agree 100%
    I just watched a bunch of You Tube video's from these guys crying how its not their fault they cheated and PWE should have fixed to not temped them. I swear this is one of the reasons the mmo genre is fading out. The people that play them are mostly like these clowns. I don't blame the AAA companies for not wanting to deal with mmo players anymore.
    I do agree cheating isn't good but how does one define cheating exactly in a MMO.

    If it's part of the game it's not cheating, if the developers F**** up which they did how could players be entirely at fault, and how come cryptic did not inform players to stop doing it, or post a warning in the first place.

    To make things worse players who inquired about this on their own forums asking why they didn't let people know it was a exploit that should not have been there to begin with are deleted by moderators / censorship rather than actually answered and locked / sticky.

    How does one exactly know they are exploiting in an Online game just because a Monster or Boss acts a certain way with a skill combo or something used on them for example, it's not a players responsibility to know it's not supposed to do that, the company should have tested, or in the least let players know first to stop immediately or risk getting items removed / banned.

    Cryptic is not an (AAA) company when they can't provide customer service, and Censor players.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj2MwWPs92M <-- it's not the players fault.

    Also how can a player be responsibile if one player exploits while you are in a group, but you didn't actually take part of doing it knowingly but you make it halfway through dungeons and someone cheats.

    Players did similar things to this like in Arche Age exploiting certain instances.
  • 1finger2words1finger2words Member CommonPosts: 1
    The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
  • ulmenstine09ulmenstine09 Member CommonPosts: 8
    they perm banned me.. so im not happy but its w.e im done with it
    SBFordtomahawk1930MrMelGibson
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    ah remember me the aion bug with infinite kinah, all you need was some ap, you spend ap to get one item then fill the others items with a cat pet who cost zero, but to get the cat you had to spend some ap, then sell it for over 500k I think, repeat till the daily cap on gold you get for selling things, no one mentioned this, I figured out when I read in the chat somewhere, and I knew teh big players was doing it, after some time it was patched, never heard of no one being banned for it and strange enough the influx didn't hurt much the market.


    the problem is banning people without telling then they shouldn't do it, saying you shouln't mention exploits in game forums or in the game is stupid because the ones who figure it out will exploit to they heart content, even if that means doing it in a alt then send it to they main, saying there is a exploit in dungeon X theya re aware and are fixing and if anyone exploited it will be banned is a nice way to keep everyone in check.


    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,520
    So it's ok for them to ban a player of 600 days who has spent over 4 grand and has 700 million astral diamonds or my friend who has over 7 billion astral diamonds all earned legit? This was a bait and purge tactic to remove all elites from the game. Good luck scrubby going through dungeons without the big time players and good luck getting the things crafted you need crafted and good luck getting the things you need in the auction house because we elites are the ones that make everything possible for the scrubs they don't want people with millions of astral who don't spend real cash playing the game. Yeah well guess what it took us players years to get there a lot of work. And you spat in the face of your most die hard players. EVERYONE was doing it and the guys I know who were small fries are back in the game. While all my people who have 100s
    Of millions of astral are still banned. Bait and purge was the plan.
    Are you saying these big time spenders / elites were taking advantage of the exploit? 

    If so good riddance to bad rubbish I say, and I would have to commend the Devs if they really had such resolve.


    MrMelGibson

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,520
    The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
    Seriously, no, I never use exploits...its possible to live a virtuous life you know.
    SBFordklash2defHariken[Deleted User]Rinswind89JeroKaneScotMrMelGibson

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
    Never. Not even once.
    klash2defKellerKyleran[Deleted User][Deleted User]Rinswind89JeroKaneTacticalZombehMrMelGibson


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • BeezerbeezBeezerbeez Member UncommonPosts: 302
    edited September 2018
    mmrv said:

    Scot said:

    Announcing exploits and telling players to be good sounds like a questionable move to me. Whatever sort of punishment occurs, however it occurs you will get players complaining it was not done right, or it went to far.



    This is a bit like a government telling people about a tax loophole or a TV company telling people how to get free TV. I see no evidence of why it will work better, but I do see evidence of disgruntled players complaining about bans. They always do.



    Na what you are saying is intellectually dishonest. Alot of people here are exhibiting it. There is a reason there are different words like exploiting and cheating as they are not the same and its dishonest to claim people who simply play a video game and experience a beneficial result due to incompetent coding and testing by the programmers are guilty of cheating.

    In fact is rather disgusting you have managed to wipe all responsibility from the product developers for their own inability to provide what the paying customer was promised in the purchase agreement. I guess this is why we are at the point people like you are buying "alpha access" to games.

    Sorry people who experience bugs are not cheaters, they are exploiting you can say depending on the nature of the bug, but its a far cry from cheating. I buy the game i play in the game world and if the game world is flawed from inept programmers thats does not nor NEVER will fall on me as the party culpable of guilt. Its not my job to test the product, its not my job to report things that seem questionable and its certainly not my job to make morale choices on what is or isnt intended by the developers or their meaningless ZERO value digital game world. Lord knows these companies will take your money and investments into the game and shut it down the moment it suits them best as you wave goodbye to everything you supposedly earned or invested in, so I cannot fathom how you can manage to blame the customer and twist crap coding and testing into "cheating".

    Maybe worse is your pathetic analogies poorly trying to rationalize mislabeling people as cheaters. Sorry specifically altering cable lines to steal cable is not the same thing as playing the game you paid to have access to and encountering inept workmanship on the product. A better analogy would be signing up for basic cable watching tv all month only to have the cable company charge you with theft because one of their employee's erroneously gave you the deluxe channel package in error and you watched some of the channels. I hope that can help better understand these people did NOT CHEAT no different that the person who was given the deluxe package didnt steal. The proper resolution is for the company to apologize for their errors and appropriately take back any unintentional gains due to their faulty product coding.

    While I do agree that exploitation and cheating are different things, both have degrees of severity that in my opinion can call for punishment. 

    Some exploits will have little to no impact on the community, while others can ruin economies, upend rankings, and more.

    If my neighbor leaves his door unlocked because he is an idiot, I still have no right to go inside. Sure, I can exploit the fact that the door is unlocked but there is clearly no invitation. What if the door is locked but I can get in with 5 simple steps? Is the lock company culpable? I don't believe so.

    The same holds for developers and in some cases these times will be obvious; in others, it'll be a who cares moment. If I notice a financial company failed to secure its data properly, I could exploit that by looking at the data or even taking the data. That's not cheating but it's still severe and deserves follow-up action by authorities. Sure, the company will need to make an apology, but I also deserve to do the time for exploiting. 

    It's not a perfect one to one comparison, because devs have a lot of ability to roll back and magically change things, but they still need to protect their loyal customers and appear proactive in resolving these issues.

    edit: 'unlocked' to 'locked' in para 3


  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I remember in Battlefield (was it Bad Company?) there was a glitch where you could flip a jeep and repair it forever and level up quickly. Everyone did it. I think there's context to exploits.

    The bottom line is, mice aren't responsible for the maze they're in. Unless somebody modified code that's ALL on the developer and it's their job to roll back if it's that big of a problem. Subjective ban waves are never the answer. 

    This would require developers actually having some accountability. 2018 though.


    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

    SEPTEMBER 25th - UPDATE - We have updated our original article with a statement from Cryptic Studios about the exploit ban wave. 

    Players were notified about the exploit and abuse consequences via an official statement from our Community Manager on the ArcGames.com Forums, which was also replicated on Reddit. Exploits such as this one can negatively impact the health of Neverwinter and affects all its players. The exploit is now fixed; players who chose to abuse the Hunts system were in violation of our Terms of Service, so action was taken against them. Any players who would like to dispute actions against their account may contact our Customer Service team.

    Scot


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • tav396tav396 Member UncommonPosts: 19
    well what did they think was gonna happen.....
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Kyleran said:
    The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
    Seriously, no, I never use exploits...its possible to live a virtuous life you know.
    Man this is what i'm talking about. This guy think everyone does this. They refuse to believe some people don't cheat because they always have.
    Kyleran[Deleted User][Deleted User]TacticalZombehSovrathMrMelGibson
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