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I Think I Made a Mistake 2 of 2

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  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:

    Ok, so you are just going to keep telling me what my thoughts are.

    I don't want Private Servers.

    I don't want them within the Scope.

    I don't want them outside of Scope.

    I don't want them before release.

    I don't want them after release.

    I don't want them in the morning.

    I don't want them late at night.

    I don't want them short.

    I don't want them tall.

    I don't want Private Servers in game at all.
    craftseeker
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    NorseGod said:
    Ok, so you are just going to keep telling me what my thoughts are.

    I don't want Private Servers.

    I don't want them within the Scope.

    I don't want them outside of Scope.

    I don't want them before release.

    I don't want them after release.

    I don't want them in the morning.

    I don't want them late at night.

    I don't want them short.

    I don't want them tall.

    I don't want Private Servers in game at all.
    It's a ridiculous concern to have at this point, why not live in the present instead of speculating and sharing concerns on the future content SC may add after it releases?

    When this is put on the table by the devs, if they even get to do that, then sure concern ahead, I'll go there and concern with you because I dislike Private Servers as well, but now when this game is still years away from its release, this is nothing but noise, devs are not even considering this at this stage.
    craftseeker
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 3,955
    edited September 17
    NorseGod, it might be more useful to consider how the OWPvP will work for the official servers instead of worrying about potential private servers for several reasons.

    1. The MMO like OWPVP official servers will be what most potential buyers of SC look at.
    The rules on these servers will determine if PVE players even consider the official servers (and the game if there is no option for private server yet).
    - EVE Online has a balance that lets PVE players do their thing. There is a risk, but it is manageable with insurances etc. And because of that, there have always been PVE only players in EVE Online.
    - An old game like Star Wars Galaxies has a different kind of balance. It allowed universe wide PVP. But it also allowed players to play as a citizen. This way they were not seen as soldier by the other factions and were primarily left alone. The key here is that this situation (toggable PVP flag) should not be exploitable. This worked pretty good in most versions (there were times when it was easy to exploit). I still see this as the best way if your goal as developer is to let both PVE and PVP players play an important role in your galaxy. Because SWG was very rpg heavy, the conflicts were for a large part guild based. Player city vs player city etc. The flag system allowed for a lot more variety in types of conflicts imo.

    2. The point of private servers is not just to be a haven for PVE players. It is a haven for everyone who prefers to host their own server with a different rule set then the official servers. While this can be just PVE, it could also be set to griefers paradise PVP. Again, this is dependent on the official server rules.



    The amount of people chosing for a private server option will be mostly determined by :
    - How difficult is it to set up (performance requirement, time etc) ?
    - How many are not happy with the server rules on the official server ?

    So, even if they release private servers at a later stage, it still does not have to mean that many people will make use of it. Whether there will be enough players on the official server will always be depending on official server rules. 

    Post edited by someforumguy on
    NorseGodErillion
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    edited September 17
    NorseGod said:
    Except you are wrong. CIG said so.

    See? proof
    Here's some proof for you:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoGxOxzAwc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h50m50s

    As he says, they are not even considering or talking about this at this point. Hence why sharing concerns now is just noise for a feature they are not working on or even talking about it until some point after the game is released.

    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435


    Yeah, I somewhat agree.


    I don't have a problem with the rulesets of EVE. I think hauling my stuff into Jita and docking before I get killed and lose everything is fun. I like planning my routes. I like getting intel on gates. I like getting chased and getting away.

    I think MMOs without OWPVP are like mining in EVE. Got my feet up on the desk. Watching a movie on one monitor, while looking over at the game once in awhile. Even though I like mining because it's chill, I don't want the entire MMO to be that dull and predictably unchallenging.

    As for TEF in SWG, not sure, by the time they changed it again, I was a Jedi anyways, but if I remember correctly, there was still legal ways to flag somebody for PVP. The reason being was PVEers where helping PVPers bust bases and the defender couldn't stop the PVEer from clearing out base defenses, allowing PVPers to run in.

    As for #2.

    Yet it is a point. And the fact that you used the word "griefer" is telling. Because the casuals in SC are trying to define anyone who attacks them, for whatever reason, as a "griefer". First, they got CIG to acknowledge that griefing was bad as in taking punitive action. Now they are trying to define all PVP as "griefing". I just find it interesting that you chose that term.

    Come on, the rest of us see what's going on here.


    MaxBacon
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,673
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    You don't want me to mention Private Servers because it shits all over your narrative. 

    When in fact, CIG specifically states that is why there will be private servers, to allow the communities to break up into their own little groups so they don't have to be "forced" lol, to play with PvPers.

    There you go. Everything that fully backs up my concerns.
    No.

    I don't want you to mention Private Servers because they are NOT part of the scope of the game that will be released.

    And even if you consider them, they do not mean anything to the MMO, the MMO is the main game, the game that will be released, the game that is OWPVP.

    It is OWPVP. The game that on its intended release does NOT have PvP and PvE servers and it does NOT have Private Servers.


    Your concerns are based on your own reality bubble on a feature that you are on an wild speculation that private servers would ever have any relevant impact splitting the playerbase of the MMO, if they did it would be the first time I ever saw that happen in any MMO where private servers of it exist/existed. 

    Whelp, you go have fun shouting at the wind while the people around have fun playing this OWPVP game. ;)
    Kinda funny you accuse someone of being in their own reality bubble when the die hard fans live the same way.

    and really can you dismiss something because it’s not of the scope of the game that will be released when, as far as I know, CIG still hasn’t announced what will be in the released game assuming we are takin about their mvp
    MaxBaconcraftseeker
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    edited September 17
    NorseGod said:
    As for #2.

    Yet it is a point. And the fact that you used the word "griefer" is telling. Because the casuals in SC are trying to define anyone who attacks them, for whatever reason, as a "griefer". First, they got CIG to acknowledge that griefing was bad as in taking punitive action. Now they are trying to define all PVP as "griefing". I just find it interesting that you chose that term.

    Come on, the rest of us see what's going on here.
    What?

    They acknowledge griefing is griefing, a player ramming other players in their landing pads is considered griefing, that's the sort of situations the community asked to be dealt with by in-game mechanics, not pure PvP situations lol...

    You and your reality bubble on this derps me out. SC cultivates PvP in different ways:
    • There is a shipwreck floating in space with a black box on it
    • Mission system generates a mission to good REP players to recover and deliver that box
    • Mission system generates a mission to pirate players to steal/destroy that box.
    • Both players are likely to meet up into a PvP situation because the conflict of interest the game itself intentionally creates.

    The game mission system itself is actually cultivating PvP (what is a rare sight even on PvPvE MMO's), they are not catering to PvE carebears to consider PvP "griefing". lol
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Except you are wrong. CIG said so.

    See? proof
    Here's some proof for you:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoGxOxzAwc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h50m50s

    As he says, they are not even considering or talking about this at this point. Hence why sharing concerns now is just noise for a feature they are not working on or even talking about it until some point after the game is released.

    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    edited September 17
    NorseGod said:
    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
    No. I countered your "proof" to show that they are not talking or even thinking about this feature at this stage and only intend to do so at some point after the game is released, that was what I said and sourced.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    craftseeker
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
    No. I countered your "proof" to show that they are not talking or even thinking about this feature at this stage and only intend to do so at some point after the game is released, that was what I said and sourced.
    Well of course.  They already got those suckers' $10.
    NorseGod
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:


     as far as I know, CIG still hasn’t announced what will be in the released game assuming we are takin about their mvp
    That all depends on which video series it was discussed, which CIG employee said it, and which year it was said.

    Now, if your research doesn't fit my narrative, I can deny any of it, based on video series, CIG Employee, and year. Then move the goalpost.

    Catching on yet? Took me awhile, but I finally did.
    craftseeker
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    Tiamat64 said:
    Well of course.  They already got those suckers' $10.
    When stuff from the store that was sold became obsolete, what happened several times due to design changes, they returned those values. If that happens with private servers and modding, they'll do just that.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
    No. I countered your "proof" to show that they are not talking or even thinking about this feature at this stage and only intend to do so at some point after the game is released, that was what I said and sourced.
    You countered jack.

    Let me help you.

    I don't want Private Servers at anytime after release, post-launch, launch, after going live. I think they are a mistake.
    MaxBacon
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    edited September 17
    NorseGod said:
    You countered jack.

    Let me help you.

    I don't want Private Servers at anytime after release, post-launch, launch, after going live. I think they are a mistake.
    I did counter, you linked a bunch of threads to say I'm wrong on saying they're not considering the feature at this stage, and I proved back they are not because they'll (as it was stated there) only look at the feature and those plans AFTER the game is released. Got it?

    Now, do you want to counter me back on your silly argument that the game is catering to PvE players who want PvP labeled as griefing when the game main mechanics of recent updates such as the mission system, is cultivating PvP intentionally? xD
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    craftseeker
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,435
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    You countered jack.

    Let me help you.

    I don't want Private Servers at anytime after release, post-launch, launch, after going live. I think they are a mistake.
    I did counter, you linked a bunch of threads to say I'm wrong on saying they're not considering the feature at this stage, and I proved back they are not because they'll (as it was stated there) only look at the feature and those plans AFTER the game is released. Got it?

    Now, do you want to counter me back on your silly argument that the game is catering to PvE players who want PvP labeled as griefing when the game main mechanics of recent updates such as the mission system, is cultivating PvP intentionally? xD
    You are correct.

    You proved your points (all of them) and me wrong.

    Have a very nice day.


    craftseeker
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member RarePosts: 2,548
    Rhoklaw said:
    If there was a plethora of space games where people had choices, such as what you described in your OP, then I'd probably feel the same way as you. So lets look at what we got for space / sci fi MMOs.

    #1 - Eve Online - While there are "safe zones" you can still be attacked within them.
    #2 - SWTOR - Heavily story driven MMO that offers a mix of PvE and PvP.
    #3 - STO - See #2
    #4 - Planetside 2 - Straight up PvP / FPS-TPS MMO
    #5 - Elite Dangerous - ???

    Those are the only ones that come to mind, so not exactly a plethora. Of those 5, you have 5 that offer PvP and 4 that offer PvE. So it's a fair mix. Of those 5, 2 focus on PvE and 3 focus on PvP. So, if you want my honest opinion. People asking for PvE versions of a game that is supposedly going to be ground breaking and new, I don't see the problem.

    Pantheon is most and foremost a PvE game, but I don't have a problem with PvP players getting their own server. So, if I could just point out one thing which I've done countless times before. You're probably afraid that the PvE servers, which you obviously don't seem to fond of will be more populated than your PvP servers. I don't think it's fair to PvE players to be forced into PvP settings just so PvP players actually have people to play with.
    https://massivelyop.com/2017/02/23/perfect-ten-mmorpgs-that-help-you-get-your-spaceship-on/

    Once again you missed Vendetta Online, named right after Eve as a live MMORPG to try, notable because it does include Newtonian combat in a persistent MMORPG universe.

    Yes, it does not allow private servers, and yes combat can occur anywhere.

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,393
    NorseGod, I really don't think you have much to worry about.  StarCitizen makes its money by being all things to all players; selling them back their own dreams.  As such, they will claim everything at some point.   Having functional private servers would mostly undercut their sales model,  and really, their management team is probably not capable of coordinating it without a ton of trouble.   

    You're spending $20 on $10 worth of trouble.....
    craftseekerPhaserlight

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,300
    NorseGod said:

    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    --> Please post a link to the Star Citizen store where they sell these "Private Server Modules" for $10. I could not find any such item. Post a link to the official shop please, not a Goon photoshopped fake screenshot picture. 

    --> Have fun 


  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 1,718
    Yes OP, you made a mistake. The mistake was bringing up SC. Just read through all these ridiculous comments going over the same crap as always. THAT was your mistake  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    craftseekerJamesGoblin
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,067
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    craftseekerMaxBacon
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,300
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,067
    edited September 18
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    last time i checked CD Red wasnt selling anything they could think of to fleece the people hyped for their game out of their money. As in selling things they claim will be there but might not be due to changes....

    They could sell real life slaves to get you food and drink while youre playing their tech demo and you would still find some way to say that it was OK
    Post edited by rodarin on
    MaxBacon
  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 516
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    Tip: don't point at others. Misdirection shows weakness in a discussion.

    I hope we are all smart enough to come to our conclusion after reading/listening to a good discussion. We don't need someone in the end to say what we should think/believe. Both sides in this discussion made smile, facepalm, disagree and/or agree. Misdirection only drives people like me away from your camp/starbase.
    craftseeker
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,300
    Keller said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    Tip: don't point at others. Misdirection shows weakness in a discussion.

    I hope we are all smart enough to come to our conclusion after reading/listening to a good discussion. We don't need someone in the end to say what we should think/believe. Both sides in this discussion made smile, facepalm, disagree and/or agree. Misdirection only drives people like me away from your camp/starbase.
    I do not misdirect.

    I put into context.

    I compare (one game development companys' way of dealing with things versus another game development companys' strategy).

    I do not tell people what to think. I do point out how things ARE ... wether some people like it or not. They can think whatever they want about a piece of verifiable data.


    Have fun

    Kellercraftseeker
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