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World of Warcraft: Beta for Azeroth - Not Ready for Primetime - MMORPG.com

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,016
    edited September 2018
    Lol this azerite system.....gg blizzard: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769156796?page=6

    So multiple people have been doing several tests ever since a rumor that the HoA levels scale up your requirements on the exact same piece of gear. So for instance, one person ran the same Mythic before and after, ending up getting the same azerite piece (since this week is extra loot from mythic dungeons)  getting higher requirements on the piece after the reset. I guess this is what blizzard meant when they kept saying dont try to grind your HoA levels. Its honestly making me a little sick that some of these MVPs just hop in hoping to shut down most negativity about this broken expansion and then get instantly shut down by multiple links by multiple people who seem to have done more testing on system's numbers than blizzard. Are the right people getting paid I wonder.

    All this stupid time gating is just ridiculous at this point to and it just showing how desperate blizzard is with wow. You can't ask for a rep system like MoP in BFA/Legion because it 'would make things progress too fast" even though crafting tiers are locked behind rep just like how some crafting recipes were locked behind rep in MoP. It was more tolerable in MoP because if you hit revered with a faction, then you could buy an account-wide x2 rep booster. I mean right now in wow, its even worse than Legion's system which allowed you to at least trade those tokens if you hit exalted. Then you have them using the heart of azeroth similar to how your third relic slot was locked behind the campaign in Legion at the start. The only 'good' thing about your HoA ilvl not mattering so much even though the secondaries are supposed to cover 4 slots of gear (since azerite pieces dont have secondaries) is the secondary stat nerf this expansion (which blizzard again didn't properly test even though some testers were running numbers non-stop since alpha and saying how screwed dot classes would be in the long run).

    I mean Ion seems like a nice enough guy, but something hasn't felt like since legion about this whole team tbh. I mean, before Legion started, they admitted that the artifact system was going to be dead before the next expansion and most people took that as the whole 'legendary' cycle thing, with one of the devs trying to relate this to you 'forgetting' your garrison (which can still make a good chunk of coin through legion medallions) or your farm in MoP. The problem with logic is how much of each spec's gameplay they tied to that system while also cutting other system and core class abilities/passives to make it work. Legion was 'great' because you lost the glyph system and half of your passives just to get them back in a different form through the combination of your artifact and the multiple legendaries. Then both of those systems go up in smoke at the end of Legion leaving us with this thing called the azerite system. Of course some people will say its too soon to tell and maybe they are right, but going back to the very start of my comment, it wont matter how good a system is if we have to keep grinding for stuff we immediately lose just because we get a higher ilvl piece of gear.
    hallucigenocideJeroKaneThahar
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,272
    edited September 2018
    SBFord said:
    So they hotfixed Warfronts to now require iLvL 320 to queue.  Alliance players are pissed, and I get it.  They've let us farm gear for our Horde toons in it for days.  My horde toon is now really close, but it'll be another 20 iLvls before my Alliance toon can queue.

    You can't wait that long to change something like this, specifically when you've only allowed one faction to get their hands on it for days while the other faction never even got the chance to participate in it.  Blizzard's decision-making for this expansion......  I'm honestly kind of shocked at how bad it has been.

    EDIT- they also ninja-censor M+ weekly cache drops but are acting like it was never intended.  They got called out by a partner fan site for allowing everyone to believe through beta that was how it was intended to work before hotfixing it now and acting like the system was never intended to give multiple items in a week (Azerite + regular armor drop).
    Yep, I was reading this just now. It is the right decision, but one implemented too late. If I were an Ally, I'd be ticked too. Hotfixing it without any explanation or mea culpa is a terrible decision, the latest among far, far too many recently.

    If Ion Hazzikostas makes it out of this expansion....even out of this year...as the WoW game director, I'll be amazed. The entire expansion has been a clusterf*k of mistakes, issues and abysmal communication.

    2 weeks left on my sub and I'm not planning to renew.
    I am impressed you manage to endure this long.


    Like I said earlier, the more that is happening now around WoW, the more I honestly start to believe that they are using WoW now as some kind of training ground for Junior developers. There is pretty much not a single veteran in that team anymore. I don't believe it. Impossible seeing what is happening.

    The amount of amateurism and major mistakes made with this expansion is honestly shocking!


    Worst of all is, that they made such huge design mistakes in this expansion, that it's now impossible to fix anymore until the next expansion hits.

    So this whole expansion is pretty much a total loss! It's pretty much a given that subscription numbers are going to hit an all time low before the end of the year and stay there till the next expansion. That is, if people still can be bothered to come back after this royal f'ck up!

    Like has been said many times over the years. No other game can kill off WoW, only WoW itself.
    It's seems they finally managed to pull that off. :(

    I can't believe this would ever happen to a Blizzard game.
    Post edited by JeroKane on
    SBFordViper482Thahar
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,918
    Was great for about a week or two. It was probably a year before I felt like this with Legion but man am I bored. BfA has got to be the least rewarding version of an MMO I have ever played. I literally feel like I accomplish nothing after getting about ilvl 334. Unless you are hardcore into grinding Mythic+ this MMO will leave you wanting. The Warfront debacle is absurd, Alliance still has not been able to access this featured content, worst design ever. Island expeditions are something you have to do rather than want to do, they aren't fun....but good luck leveling your artifact neck without them.

    I don't know what Blizzard is thinking. It is almost as though they try and find crap activities to make you do so you can't have fun doing what you want to do. All in the name of keeping your sub for one more month. They will need to pump some life into this expansion quick.
    SBFordJeroKaneThahar
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,016
    I like tanking and always play tank classes. I don't mind taking a while longer to kill things as my health hardly moves. Healing, no way in hell!

    I'm still struggling to get Draenor Pathfinder for my alts.....I finally broke down and bought a bunch of Medallions of Legion off the AH just to finish it.

    Pathfinders since, seem like they've been improved. I understand having the concept/lore of having get to Exalted with a certain people to open a particular class to play, I guess. For the 'right' to be me, you have to earn it and show that you'll be a good example of 'me'.

    I wish they would decrease the amount of XP for things, because I barely get through one zone and I'm already at level cap. It kind of takes the shine off of leveling when you're not improving a character or making them better...so I don't like the no new skills.

    Azerite armor seems like a crappier system with the RNG secondary stats/buffs, and they don't feel/look as epic or cool as the legendary weapons.

    I liked the class hall stuff, and unlocking class-specific mounts. I wish they'd blow that class system out and improve on it, kind of like SWTOR's class stories. I'd like to know and feel why it matters if I'm a DK or Warrior or DH...

    If they're going to use the same types of treadmills, at least make them figure 8's or add interesting backgrounds to look at while we're all running in place...ha

    Gut Out!
    MadFrenchie

    What, me worry?

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    JeroKane said:
    SBFord said:
    So they hotfixed Warfronts to now require iLvL 320 to queue.  Alliance players are pissed, and I get it.  They've let us farm gear for our Horde toons in it for days.  My horde toon is now really close, but it'll be another 20 iLvls before my Alliance toon can queue.

    You can't wait that long to change something like this, specifically when you've only allowed one faction to get their hands on it for days while the other faction never even got the chance to participate in it.  Blizzard's decision-making for this expansion......  I'm honestly kind of shocked at how bad it has been.

    EDIT- they also ninja-censor M+ weekly cache drops but are acting like it was never intended.  They got called out by a partner fan site for allowing everyone to believe through beta that was how it was intended to work before hotfixing it now and acting like the system was never intended to give multiple items in a week (Azerite + regular armor drop).
    Yep, I was reading this just now. It is the right decision, but one implemented too late. If I were an Ally, I'd be ticked too. Hotfixing it without any explanation or mea culpa is a terrible decision, the latest among far, far too many recently.

    If Ion Hazzikostas makes it out of this expansion....even out of this year...as the WoW game director, I'll be amazed. The entire expansion has been a clusterf*k of mistakes, issues and abysmal communication.

    2 weeks left on my sub and I'm not planning to renew.
     There is pretty much not a single veteran in that team anymore.

    How do you know that?

    I mean there has to be some in the lead design roles, but it's not the shiniest or most prestigious project to work on so a lot of senior devs will want to work on what's coming next rather than another WOW expansion.

    The issue I have with some devs is that they want to put their stamp on things and end up trying "fix" what's broken or should be a low priority.  Their top priorities would have always been ensuring that all specs are fun and viable and that there is always content pushed out when it's needed.  Once they master that, then they can look into adding other systems or maybe tweaking classes.

    If it's true that they are low on senior devs or at least good ones, then maybe the suits will force some back onto the team to right the ship as it is still a moneymaker and shouldn't be receiving such a bad reception.


  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    edited September 2018
    Switch to horde

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/476042/not-liking-battle-for-azeroth-are-you-alliance-try

    I switched to horde and its literally a whole new game

    Better content
    Better and more unique collections to work toward (horde has all unique mounts, alliance has copy/paste horses)
    And its just a better quality experience

    Got bored of alliance at 120 within a week

    been playing horde for longer and haven't even got close to bored. Its just better quality, more fun content.

    Plus its nice to turn on warmode and not be surrounded by (exaggeration but its pretty much it) 50 horde and only 1 alliance to help you out lol
    SBFordThahar

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    JeroKane said:
    SBFord said:
    So they hotfixed Warfronts to now require iLvL 320 to queue.  Alliance players are pissed, and I get it.  They've let us farm gear for our Horde toons in it for days.  My horde toon is now really close, but it'll be another 20 iLvls before my Alliance toon can queue.

    You can't wait that long to change something like this, specifically when you've only allowed one faction to get their hands on it for days while the other faction never even got the chance to participate in it.  Blizzard's decision-making for this expansion......  I'm honestly kind of shocked at how bad it has been.

    EDIT- they also ninja-censor M+ weekly cache drops but are acting like it was never intended.  They got called out by a partner fan site for allowing everyone to believe through beta that was how it was intended to work before hotfixing it now and acting like the system was never intended to give multiple items in a week (Azerite + regular armor drop).
    Yep, I was reading this just now. It is the right decision, but one implemented too late. If I were an Ally, I'd be ticked too. Hotfixing it without any explanation or mea culpa is a terrible decision, the latest among far, far too many recently.

    If Ion Hazzikostas makes it out of this expansion....even out of this year...as the WoW game director, I'll be amazed. The entire expansion has been a clusterf*k of mistakes, issues and abysmal communication.

    2 weeks left on my sub and I'm not planning to renew.
    I am impressed you manage to endure this long.


    Like I said earlier, the more that is happening now around WoW, the more I honestly start to believe that they are using WoW now as some kind of training ground for Junior developers. There is pretty much not a single veteran in that team anymore. I don't believe it. Impossible seeing what is happening.

    The amount of amateurism and major mistakes made with this expansion is honestly shocking!


    Worst of all is, that they made such huge design mistakes in this expansion, that it's now impossible to fix anymore until the next expansion hits.

    So this whole expansion is pretty much a total loss! It's pretty much a given that subscription numbers are going to hit an all time low before the end of the year and stay there till the next expansion. That is, if people still can be bothered to come back after this royal f'ck up!

    Like has been said many times over the years. No other game can kill off WoW, only WoW itself.
    It's seems they finally managed to pull that off. :(

    I can't believe this would ever happen to a Blizzard game.
    I think they may be able to right the ship during this expansion, but it's going to require some major changes and I'm not sure if this team has the will to do it.  Azerite Armor needs some serious reworking as do Island Expeditions and Warfronts.  And this is in addition to the class spec fixes that hey implied will take effect in 8.1.
    Blizzard moves so slowly even when they know what they want to accomplish.  But they have no choice but to address this stuff in a timely manner.
  • cesmode8cesmode8 Member UncommonPosts: 431
    Just tossing my two cents into this, even though I haven't played the expansion but watch enough streamers and read enough and simply because I can...

    It sounds like the leveling is, again, amazing. I think they hit the nail on the head with Legion leveling and BFA is no different.

    The problem comes post level with everything else. Everytime they introduce a new system or a way of doing things post level cap, it seems to have many bugs, issues, design flaws, etc. Blizzard, this juggernaut with seemingly infinite funding for proper QA and with loads of beta test data, have issues getting things right where a much much smaller developer like Arenanet doesnt even have beta (I dont think?) and get it right on the first try.

    They introduce systems like warfronts, or new races that aren't yet unlockable (or at least all weren't at launch?), aggro bugs (saw asmongold literally kite one mob from one end of a zone to the other without dropping aggro), ilvl bugs...things that were reported.

    And then net expansion they ditch everything for something new.

    The constant carrot on a stick, the change of the way you enjoy the game every other year, the constant distance between developer and feedback...its why I cant get back into WoW. Pay 60$ for expansion, 15 a month for this? For all the problems listed in the article and comments? And to get to max level to do what? Mythic/Mythic+ ? LFR? Maybe raid with 10 or so other arrogant people? I cant.

    I know a lot of people dislike GW2, but I genuinely think its a superior game in nearly every way from leveling, to world design, to class mechanics and uniqueness (if you spent the time to see it), to boss and dungeon/fractal design, to FREE content creation.

    my two cents, flameon.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,621
    edited September 2018
    While the number of issues is absolutely inexcusable, pretty much all the issues that have plagued the expansion have been largely fixed. The main issues now are things that are design related: Azerite Armor specifically being really dull. WoD was far worse then this though in every way shape and form. Pretty much all the expansions that a lot of people consider there favorite (Including Legion) have had a number of issues, but the amount of small bugs is what is really confusing coming from a game that Blizzard made. Ultimately I am pretty happy with the expansion, especially dungeons and raids. In the end, those are the main things that matter the most to players.
    MadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2018
    Celcius said:
    While the number of issues is absolutely inexcusable, pretty much all the issues that have plagued the expansion have been largely fixed. The main issues now are things that are design related: Azerite Armor specifically being really dull. WoD was far worse then this though in every way shape and form. Pretty much all the expansions that a lot of people consider there favorite (Including Legion) have had a number of issues, but the amount of small bugs is what is really confusing coming from a game that Blizzard made. Ultimately I am pretty happy with the expansion, especially dungeons and raids. In the end, those are the main things that matter the most to players.
    It's disappointing that the design direction has been pretty poor this expansion.  Bugs are fixable; you can't expect a dev team to rethink the entire progression system during an expansion though.

    Azerite Armor has not been well-received.  Nor has progression in general, including how you get upgraded Azerite Armor.  I have no doubt this will have a negative effect on the amount of folks willing to run the same dungeons over and over, even though the dungeons and raids themselves don't seem to have suffered any.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Celcius said:
    While the number of issues is absolutely inexcusable, pretty much all the issues that have plagued the expansion have been largely fixed. The main issues now are things that are design related: Azerite Armor specifically being really dull. WoD was far worse then this though in every way shape and form. Pretty much all the expansions that a lot of people consider there favorite (Including Legion) have had a number of issues, but the amount of small bugs is what is really confusing coming from a game that Blizzard made. Ultimately I am pretty happy with the expansion, especially dungeons and raids. In the end, those are the main things that matter the most to players.
    It's disappointing that the design direction has been pretty poor this expansion.  Bugs are fixable; you can't expect a dev team to rethink the entire progression system during an expansion though.

    Azerite Armor has not been well-received.  Nor has progression in general, including how you get upgraded Azerite Armor.  I have no doubt this will have a negative effect on the amount of folks willing to run the same dungeons over and over, even though the dungeons and raids themselves don't seem to have suffered any.
    "WoD was far worse" doesn't make me excited to play. Hopefully they will have this entire B-rated fiasco sorted out by holiday.

    The irritating and annoying part isn't the bugs, it's that I'm putting up with this for a Blizzard game. Hopefully the team working on Classic is more in touch or there will be an epic shitstorm.
    MadFrenchie
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2018
    Torval said:
    Celcius said:
    While the number of issues is absolutely inexcusable, pretty much all the issues that have plagued the expansion have been largely fixed. The main issues now are things that are design related: Azerite Armor specifically being really dull. WoD was far worse then this though in every way shape and form. Pretty much all the expansions that a lot of people consider there favorite (Including Legion) have had a number of issues, but the amount of small bugs is what is really confusing coming from a game that Blizzard made. Ultimately I am pretty happy with the expansion, especially dungeons and raids. In the end, those are the main things that matter the most to players.
    It's disappointing that the design direction has been pretty poor this expansion.  Bugs are fixable; you can't expect a dev team to rethink the entire progression system during an expansion though.

    Azerite Armor has not been well-received.  Nor has progression in general, including how you get upgraded Azerite Armor.  I have no doubt this will have a negative effect on the amount of folks willing to run the same dungeons over and over, even though the dungeons and raids themselves don't seem to have suffered any.
    "WoD was far worse" doesn't make me excited to play. Hopefully they will have this entire B-rated fiasco sorted out by holiday.

    The irritating and annoying part isn't the bugs, it's that I'm putting up with this for a Blizzard game. Hopefully the team working on Classic is more in touch or there will be an epic shitstorm.
    Agreed.  Releasing content that has a bug, such as no iLvl req where there should be one, is unfortunate.  It is surprising from Blizzard, but not an insurmountable obstacle.  However, taking 3 whole days to acknowledge such an obvious bug of that magnitude is unacceptable from a team that's charging $50 per box on top of $15 per month from millions of players.  Specifically when your player base is talking about it everywhere, including your own forums and Reddit.

    The bugs, while disappointing, are being fixed.  It will be much harder to "fix" the literal design philosophy issues that we're intentionally developed.  Warfronts coming around once a month?  Jesus Blizzard, that's like the sub equivalent of a lootbox.
    Torval

    image
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne Member UncommonPosts: 1,549
    Blizzard must be making a huge amount of money and I'd have thought they could recruit good people. Therefore, I don't understand why they wouldn't have the time and expertise to do their usual polished job
    [Deleted User]
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    edited September 2018
    Blizzard must be making a huge amount of money and I'd have thought they could recruit good people. Therefore, I don't understand why they wouldn't have the time and expertise to do their usual polished job
    It starts with good managers/directors but it ends with a willingness to delay the games release if it's simply not ready.  They clearly didn't want to delay release and I think that it will cost them for some time to come.  Customer trust shouldn't be abused.  They are also too greedy to offer some sort of say bonus sub time as compensation and goodwill.
    [Deleted User]
  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 878
    Great game- But man has Blizzard lost the grip.

    Proud MMORPG.com member since 2009! 




  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,080
    WoD was the last time I played WoW, so I don't have a clue of BfA issues.
    But if Suzie is complaining, it must be serious.
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 521
    Warfronts may have stirred the fire a bit, but in the end aren't the problem but only a symptom.

    Reality is, people jumped on Warfronts because it was the only way to reliably get gear.  But its only 340 gear and only those slots other than rings/trinkets.  Once you have all 340s or better (and the or better is not really from Warfronts), you have no inclination to do them EVER again.  They're just as monotonous as Island Expeditions... which had to be buffed with fluff drops to even keep people doing them outside of the weekly Azerite cache.

    People are frustrated with the lack of content mainly due to the lack of gear... everything, and I do mean everything is personal loot.  Which means you have even less control over gearing up than ever before.  Even Legion wasn't full on personal loot.

    So, you can run Mythic+ at a chance at maybe getting one upgrade.... and that is a very big maybe... do the same in the one Raid that is available to do... or wait 3-4 months for them to release more content.  The big problem is that all their side content basically threw all they had to offer at you on day one.  Now it's just a rep grind and an Azerite grind. 

    And remember, for every upgrade you do put on, you get don't get stronger... you get weaker.  That's the other fundamental flaw with this expansion design... constantly making everything around you scale up with you.  So you are no more powerful after decking out in all 370s than you were when you hit 120.  Hell you were the most powerful in this expansion at level 110.

    Torval
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    edited September 2018
    not sure if that's right about the scaling.. i heard it stops at about 330 or something. haven't bothered to get much higher than that yet to see if true but it would make sense to have a cap.

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,016
    Ignorance is bliss! I haven't had these problems, and the way I'm consuming the material makes this my favorite expac yet. I came on right after WoTLK started, so missed that one, but BfA has been my favorite so far story-wise. I still like the Legendary Weapon vs. Azerite armor as most of these pieces seem like vendor trash, instead of the epicness of the orange weapons, and looks, and buffs.

    Gut Out!
    MadFrenchie

    What, me worry?

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    I'm also playing much too casually to experience any of these issues yet. Hopefully things get fixed up before I do.

    I am enjoying my experience so far.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,016
    Yeah, I'd like an actual large expac, with 20-30 levels, new skills, new mechanics that are fully fleshed out , new crafting, new classes, allied races are a good touch, I'd like them to expand on the Class-specific stuff more by taking what they did in Legion and expanding on it. Bedazzle the treadmill more at least...

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2018
    The issue with the scaling is that there shouldn't ever really be this feeling of losing power as you upgrade items.

    It's mainly a botched transition job from content and classes that depended upon secondary stats almost completely to one that doesn't.  That's not to say the previous system was bad.  I'm not sure the transition was even warranted, but Ion and Co apparently did, so here we are.

    image
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