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Are there any MMOs with Dungeons that don't require YouTube study?

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,431
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    He said:

    "Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny"

    So saying that there are a ton of smaller server games that are fantasy that allow you to run content in small groups and take on good content. The classic MMORPG has been slowly dying (good riddance) for years and the vast majority of the players have moved onto other game genres and to the minimo. 
    Look into Dark and Light or Citadel Forged with Fire or Conan Exiles.  





    Funny you say the "classic MMORPG" has been slowly dying. You may be right, but only because of the plethora of games dividing up the community. The bigger picture still shows "classics" being the top dogs in the industry, so I'm not entirely sure if you ignorant or just angry.

    WoW, ESO, GW2 and even FFXIV are all classic MMOs in the sense of mechanics and features. So what games do you think have them beat?
    WOW,ESO and GW2 are as far from classic as you get ;)

    Any of those like UO? What about SWG? What about Asheron's Call? What about EQ? What about Lineage? 

    Nope.  


    Actually, if you are referring to "old school", that's not the same as "classic" but anyways, as bad as EQ has become, it's still up and running. I don't know much about UO but as far as I know, it still exists as does DAoC. So, since you were actually talking about "old school" then yes, most MMOs don't age well anymore, but new MMOs age even worse. So either way, you're incorrect.


    I am correct to me. I could care less what you think of 'old school' and 'classic' being the same thing. To me they are. To you they are not? Hmmm. Semantics maybe? 

    Yes, those particular titles are up and running and as I said they have been slowly dying for years. Truth. 

    Just trying to be right about something is not the same thing as actually being right.

    I am not incorrect about it at all. I just am your target for some reason =)  PvP Forum guy ;)

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,431
    So anyway OP, sorry to be a part of the derailing of your thread by the petty back and forth with forum pvp guy. 


    I hope you found a game you like from the suggestions our community made?
    Perhaps fill us in on how it went and is going!


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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    SeriphinX said:
    And yeah there is an ingame guide on these...and I look at it.   But where in any other game do you really need to do this?  I didn't do it in Skyrim...didn't really do it in Everquest...Ultima Online...I just hate now that this is the common process...study all the things in dungeons and raids from videos...and implement all the known things from said videos.   That's boring and I just simply don't do it.  Haven't had to do it in Destiny either, which is what I mostly play now.  

    Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny lol
    I didn't do it on Skyrim either at first but after I had gone through a lot of it, I started watching videos and they showed me all the interesting things I had missed and some good questing add-ons.

    As to wanting to play a certain way you would have to search guilds until you found one with the same playstyle as yours or get a group of friends together.  Random groups seldom delivery anything special, it's just rush through stuff as fast as you can most of the time.  I once joined a guild looking for people who didn't want to be in a guild but did want the bonuses players get from just being in one.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,527
    I read this and sheesh.  I remember when the top guilds kept their strats a complete secret.  There were no youtubes.  There was no voice chat. 

    The idea of having to watch a youtube video for a dungeon for a PUG?  This is rePUGnant. 
    DAOWAce
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,224
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    He said:

    "Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny"

    So saying that there are a ton of smaller server games that are fantasy that allow you to run content in small groups and take on good content. The classic MMORPG has been slowly dying (good riddance) for years and the vast majority of the players have moved onto other game genres and to the minimo. 
    Look into Dark and Light or Citadel Forged with Fire or Conan Exiles.  





    Funny you say the "classic MMORPG" has been slowly dying. You may be right, but only because of the plethora of games dividing up the community. The bigger picture still shows "classics" being the top dogs in the industry, so I'm not entirely sure if you ignorant or just angry.

    WoW, ESO, GW2 and even FFXIV are all classic MMOs in the sense of mechanics and features. So what games do you think have them beat?
    WOW,ESO and GW2 are as far from classic as you get ;)

    Any of those like UO? What about SWG? What about Asheron's Call? What about EQ? What about Lineage? 

    Nope.  


    Actually, if you are referring to "old school", that's not the same as "classic" but anyways, as bad as EQ has become, it's still up and running. I don't know much about UO but as far as I know, it still exists as does DAoC. So, since you were actually talking about "old school" then yes, most MMOs don't age well anymore, but new MMOs age even worse. So either way, you're incorrect.


    I am correct to me. I could care less what you think of 'old school' and 'classic' being the same thing. To me they are. To you they are not? Hmmm. Semantics maybe? 

    Yes, those particular titles are up and running and as I said they have been slowly dying for years. Truth. 

    Just trying to be right about something is not the same thing as actually being right.

    I am not incorrect about it at all. I just am your target for some reason =)  PvP Forum guy ;)
    Actually, you're post has your bias written all over it. So, when you say ( good riddance ) you already show you have no reason to use facts in your information. Which is why I pointed out that WoW, ESO, GW2, FFXIV are all "classic" MMO's which you claim are a dying breed. The OP is talking about dungeon crawling that doesn't involve a lot of though process. So for starters, there really aren't any MMOs that offer that, so I'm not even sure why you brought it up. You could of just offered your advice of Sandbox Survival games. I just took it upon myself to respond to your inaccuracies.
    blueturtle13

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,431
    edited September 2018
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    He said:

    "Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny"

    So saying that there are a ton of smaller server games that are fantasy that allow you to run content in small groups and take on good content. The classic MMORPG has been slowly dying (good riddance) for years and the vast majority of the players have moved onto other game genres and to the minimo. 
    Look into Dark and Light or Citadel Forged with Fire or Conan Exiles.  





    Funny you say the "classic MMORPG" has been slowly dying. You may be right, but only because of the plethora of games dividing up the community. The bigger picture still shows "classics" being the top dogs in the industry, so I'm not entirely sure if you ignorant or just angry.

    WoW, ESO, GW2 and even FFXIV are all classic MMOs in the sense of mechanics and features. So what games do you think have them beat?
    WOW,ESO and GW2 are as far from classic as you get ;)

    Any of those like UO? What about SWG? What about Asheron's Call? What about EQ? What about Lineage? 

    Nope.  


    Actually, if you are referring to "old school", that's not the same as "classic" but anyways, as bad as EQ has become, it's still up and running. I don't know much about UO but as far as I know, it still exists as does DAoC. So, since you were actually talking about "old school" then yes, most MMOs don't age well anymore, but new MMOs age even worse. So either way, you're incorrect.


    I am correct to me. I could care less what you think of 'old school' and 'classic' being the same thing. To me they are. To you they are not? Hmmm. Semantics maybe? 

    Yes, those particular titles are up and running and as I said they have been slowly dying for years. Truth. 

    Just trying to be right about something is not the same thing as actually being right.

    I am not incorrect about it at all. I just am your target for some reason =)  PvP Forum guy ;)
    Actually, you're post has your bias written all over it. So, when you say ( good riddance ) you already show you have no reason to use facts in your information. Which is why I pointed out that WoW, ESO, GW2, FFXIV are all "classic" MMO's which you claim are a dying breed. The OP is talking about dungeon crawling that doesn't involve a lot of though process. So for starters, there really aren't any MMOs that offer that, so I'm not even sure why you brought it up. You could of just offered your advice of Sandbox Survival games. I just took it upon myself to respond to your inaccuracies.
    Facts and inaccuracies about what? What are you even talking about? 

    Your
    bias towards me is written all over these repeated comments trolling me for no reason.
    If that makes you feel better good for you. Just seems..petty? You could have just given your advice to the OP and moved on but you decided to attack me and my point of view for no reason. 

    You call these more modern mmorpgs 'classic' like ESO and GW2. ESO and GW2 are NOT classic mmorpgs. Not in my opinion. That is fine that you call them that. I do not. That does not make me wrong. Nor does it make you wrong.
    That makes me have a different idea about them then you do. 

    By the way, are you ok? This is not behavior we are all used to from you around here. I even had two other members ask what your deal was in private message. Asking if there was some convo you and I had in the past that would cause you to attack like that.
    Usually you make pretty fair and cogent remarks. Not sure what is going on personally in your life but I hope it all works out. Peace to you friend. 

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  • DeadSpockDeadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 394
    If you don't like watching videos to clear endgame raids/dungeons don't you ever play FFXIV at endgame it doesn't matter how skillful you are or how smart you are the game design is stupid punishing if you don't do certain move or action as a group you wipe some fights even if one member hasn't seen video and messes up everyone dies. Game is easy as shit so they put stupid shit in it to look hard.
    blueturtle13
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,153
    Elidien said:
    Our guild in ESO is specifically designed for people to learn content and we do not want or require people to worry about videos or guides. The journey is the goal.

    I think its about finding like-minded people in the game you want to play. I have watched zero videos on ESO and have a majority of the dungeons (including vets) completed. I prefer to learn it the old fashioned way and thankfully found people who let me.
    If I were in the shoes of the OP I would check out interesting games and their communities and see if there are people running content like that. Check their social sites, reddit communities, or whatever. I connect with other No Man's Sky players through reddit subs.

    The MMO Book Club is a group that chooses games, plays them together for a time, and then plays another game. You can find out more on their discord. MMO BookClub

    Discord is full of different communities too. Check some of those out.

    If you like BattleNet games the launcher has some great social tools built in. Check out those communities and see if you can find a fit.

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,545
    Elidien said:
    Our guild in ESO is specifically designed for people to learn content and we do not want or require people to worry about videos or guides. The journey is the goal.

    I think its about finding like-minded people in the game you want to play. I have watched zero videos on ESO and have a majority of the dungeons (including vets) completed. I prefer to learn it the old fashioned way and thankfully found people who let me.
    There is a huge difference in ESO between guild/friends groups and PUGs. Speed running asshattery is as bad in ESO PUGs as in any other MMO.

    This is actually where level scaling hurts the game. At launch if you were PUGging Banished Cells you were likely running it with 3 others in the level 10-15 range with a roughly equal knowledge of the game, mechanics and dungeon.

    These days you're likely to run it with a mix of players anywhere from level 10 to CP780 doing it for their random of the day or because it's one of the undaunted pledges. The CP780 people have run Banished Cells 100 times before and are there just for the reward and some of them - not all, mind you - tend to be impatient. They should actually have an option to run it solo and still get the rewards. That might stop a lot of the nonsense since a lot of players could solo it.

    Queuing for PUGs in ESO requires a thick skin and being adaptable enough to run it with DPS pretend queuing as tanks or healers.
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  • SplitStream13SplitStream13 Member UncommonPosts: 167
    I've always found Gw2's dungeons to be pretty straightforward, especially the fractals. Move from point to point, kill/skip everything on your path, do an objective (kill a boss, capture a point, etc etc) get rewarded. 

    Thing is, Gw2 do not support their dungeons outside of Fractals of the Mists which is sort of a mini-dungeons with some fractured lore and shit. I don't know it's weird. I used to farm a lot of dungeons at launch, now it's still farmable and profitable but it was better when they were actively supporting and developing them. 
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,545
    edited September 2018
    Gorwe said:
    Truth be told, outside of max difficulty instances, is it really so study intensive these days? Apart from the Tank role(which will ALWAYS have this flaw), I don't believe it is. A lot of content can be played as a healer by just healing properly and paying attention to the environment. For example ; but I do not know how the max difficulty plays(honestly? too much effort for too little reward).
    These days most MMO have brought in some raid-like mechanics into many regular dungeons. Things like knowing that a certain boss will do some super powerful AOE blast when he starts acting a certain way but if you hide behind some columns in that room the AOE won't hurt you, or that when 4 adds chain a random player to the ground you need to kill just one of those adds to break the chains. That's the kind of stuff you wouldn't know to do unless you've been there before. 

    ESO is full of those mechanics in dungeons that become available at level 45. Although that's fairly recent and a lot of those dungeons with mechanics you need to know were available at level 10 until not long ago.

    It's not uber tricky stuff but it is stuff you need to know how to deal with and it's not just the tank who needs to know it - everyone does.

    They can still be done without YT research but that requires that at least one party member is civilized enough to ask if everyone knows the fight and explain it if someone doesn't when you come up to one of those.

    The simple tank and spank dungeons are going the way of the dodo.

    An example of one of those dungeons I mentioned above that used to be available at level 10 in ESO:



    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • yggdrasil0601yggdrasil0601 Member CommonPosts: 4
    LFR and easy mode dungeon levels ruined WoW for me. I was never top tier raiding but not to far behind in content. Just knowing the fight tactics was not enough before. It required a lot of prep not just queue for a raid with quest greens and blues and clear a few bosses. I remember trying to kill BWL bosses for days on each boss. I miss those days.
  • SaelemSaelem Member UncommonPosts: 31
    I felt this the worst with FFXIV. That whole community seems YouTube-obsessed with dungeon and raid runs. The players who do the guides are community celebrities. The dungeons are so mechanic-intensive that one player not doing something correctly will often cause a wipe, even on simpler daily content. It makes it pretty stressful on a newer player or a first-run player. I know I would always watch a video before going in, despite that being pretty much the opposite of fun and taking away the excitement and exploration aspect of it.

    WoW is like this as well, but I feel to a lesser extent. The mechanics for just your general or heroic dungeons can often be cleared even with a failed mechanic or two and you can use mods to warn you of mechanics, should you choose to use them.
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 295
    I always entered into raids clueless. People asking me if I had watched some video "yeah mate it's all sweet". Had no idea what was going on. But then only raided years back, didn't seem as much crap happening. Found it way more fun that way. Which naturally, raided the same boss long enough. Turned way too boring. 

    Of course people are way too impatient and boring now. All about end game, gearing up. Quitting the game cause they have everything. They never seem to really enjoy themselves along the way.
    SeriphinXTheScavenger
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,531
    You went from first to top level without needing a guide, but that's not enough now you want all end game content to be so simplistic it is immediately obvious what to do?
    TheScavenger

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,762
    Gorwe said:
    Truth be told, outside of max difficulty instances, is it really so study intensive these days? Apart from the Tank role(which will ALWAYS have this flaw), I don't believe it is. A lot of content can be played as a healer by just healing properly and paying attention to the environment. For example ; but I do not know how the max difficulty plays(honestly? too much effort for too little reward).
    FF14 can be quite unforgiving in its mechanics in dungeons, even during levelling.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
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    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,025
    I mean, just don't watch videos.  I could give a damn what anyone else thinks I should be doing; I enjoy learning content first-hand and videos kill any sense of surprise or wonder.....fuck that.
    TheScavenger
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 248
    SeriphinX said:
    I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time.  But sometimes I want to just pick up and play.  I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.  

    I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful.  Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process.  Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.

    Is there such a thing?
    Every MMO that has dungeons fits, none of them require youtube study before hand.

    A lot of players, PuGs, and Guild's on the other hand, absolutely require it, and to go one step further, a lot of them seem to expect you to have a gearscore so high, you have no need to run  the dungeon in the first place.
    TheScavenger
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  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,326
    I refuse to watch anyone else play something till after I have seen it first hand myself as far as instances and raids go, so for me that would be any game released.  I learn by doing not wasting my time watching others have fun.  Part of the fun is learning through mistakes and failures, it makes the win mean that much more.  If I go in knowing every little thing from the start there is no point as it will be boring as hell before I even get going.
    TheScavenger
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,573
    mmolou said:
    SeriphinX said:
    I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time.  But sometimes I want to just pick up and play.  I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.  

    I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful.  Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process.  Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.

    Is there such a thing?
    Every MMO that has dungeons fits, none of them require youtube study before hand.

    A lot of players, PuGs, and Guild's on the other hand, absolutely require it, and to go one step further, a lot of them seem to expect you to have a gearscore so high, you have no need to run  the dungeon in the first place.
    That's a problem with gearscore in MMO's. Groups want an easy run, so they require gear further than the dungeon to get into a group for the dungeon. It's a paradox that isn't easy to solve without joining a guild that is willing to help you, or finding a group that is willing to help. 
  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 252
    edited October 2018
    Why don't you just let others lead the content rather than trying to take charge yourself? If you are new to a particular dungeon, tell people, "Hey, first time running this event, please let me know if there is anything in particular I should do." I don't play whatever mmo you're playing that requires youtube, but I've never been kicked from a group for admitting I am learning something new.


  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 252
    I see people stating that players need to slow down and enjoy the journey rather than race to the end game content. What about players who prefer the end game grind over the journey? I know so many people who have 100 alts and zero end game characters and to me, that is just stupid. I want my chosen character to be the best he can be and possibly, the best on the server. That by very nature means end game grind.

    TheScavengermmolou
  • SeriphinXSeriphinX Member UncommonPosts: 19
    edited October 2018
    LOL wow, I was floored at how this thread took on a life of its own.   

    I grew up poor in the 80's, my first game for NES was an rpg game and it was Dragon Warrior.  I only got the system (hand-me-down) a year before I had that game, mainly just playing Mario & Duck Hunt for the longest time.  I'd see all these games like Dragon Warrior that had a guide out there or Final Fantasy had the Nintendo Power guide but I never got the chance to have those.  I just played and played and figured out where to go, where to dig, how to find things on my own.  

    I also played a lot of oldschool D&D, delved in quite a few dungeons not knowing what was there, how to fight what was there, died some and lived through others.  This was before the surge of the internet anyway.  No youtube videos for modules.  So I guess I'm just from another era.  The concept of 'go study videos for lots and lots of dungeons', not even talking about raids, before coming along just seems too counter-immersive to what I am use to, and refuse to do it.  Heck, other than a few maps printed off here and there, mostly what I made myself,  I never watched a video of a dungeon for EQ or UO.  We just went and did it.  We did everything in our power to keep healer alive or escape as they were out means of getting brought back to life.  

    I understand that WoW and WoW-like games have mechanics to their bosses.  If learning a group or raid wide synchronized dance, because that's basically all that is, gives you pleasure then great.  This is the LFG forum, I was looking for a game.  Don't let it bother ya. 
    TheScavenger
  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,550
    SeriphinX said:
    I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time.  But sometimes I want to just pick up and play.  I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.  

    I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful.  Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process.  Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.

    Is there such a thing?
    You'll need to go back in time for that. Sorry.
    TheScavengerSeriphinX

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  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 476
    Well WarEnsemble you would like Tera's current approach.  Pumped up xp rate,  bonus xp tokens, dungeons where the story is thrown under the bus for the sake of getting players up to the end game as fast as possible.
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