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Crytek Filing Lawsuit Against CIG

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  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    MaxBacon said:
    I would love to see where the backing money is really going? If backers are making car payments and housing payments, bills etc. Then I would say this is a total scam. But, if they are meeting their deadlines on time I would say OK well at least their doing what they said they would. I don't follow star citizen so I'm not sure about their progress. What I do know for sure is there is way to many threads about this game.
    Of course, backers are paying cars, they are paying food, they are paying rents, they are sustaining the life of hundreds of people and their families, that's part of the human process this is, backer money pays hundreds of wagers per month. Hell, backers pay for the toilet paper they use in their bathrooms, is that a scam?

    It's a human process, companies have operative costs (that includes legal expenses of several different types), game development is not a vending machine, and it's simply a reality you must accept.
    I personally cannot support this. It would be quite foolish to invest money. This practice might be accepted but I know BS when I see it, or in this case read it. This is a trust issue. Sorry I do not trust a system this vulnerable.  I'm not going to back a game so Joe Blow can make his Mercedes car payment. No thanks!
     
  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    MaxBacon said:
    I would love to see where the backing money is really going? If backers are making car payments and housing payments, bills etc. Then I would say this is a total scam. But, if they are meeting their deadlines on time I would say OK well at least their doing what they said they would. I don't follow star citizen so I'm not sure about their progress. What I do know for sure is there is way to many threads about this game.
    Of course, backers are paying cars, they are paying food, they are paying rents, they are sustaining the lives of hundreds of people and their families, that's part of the human process this is, backer money pays hundreds of wagers per month. Hell, backers pay for the toilet paper they use in their bathrooms, is that a scam?

    It's a human process, companies have operative costs (that includes legal expenses of several different types), game development is not a vending machine, and it's simply a reality you must accept.
    So a companies operative  costs includes transportation and food for their families?  I understand people spending their paychecks on those necessities.   But backers should not be paying for employees cars.  The money raised should be used to produce the game.  

    Yes they have to pay employees.  But the amount of Interest they are making off of close to 300 million should just about cover payroll every month.  


    You're going to sit here and tell me and other potential backers that the money I give them is going to go to "Joes new car?" 







    I've got the straight edge.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited September 2018
    I personally cannot support this. It would be quite foolish to invest money. This practice might be accepted but I know BS when I see it, or in this case read it. This is a trust issue. Sorry I do not trust a system this vulnerable.  I'm not going to back a game so Joe Blow can make his Mercedes car payment. No thanks!
    Well then, crowdfunding is not for you. If one funds a company from scratch, one must expect the operative costs of said company will have to be paid by that money, even if you just paid for the Y product they are to deliver.

    That's just the nature of it, employees have wagers and they do with their wagers what they want, that be buy a car or whatever, backers also pay for the company's medical insurance all that sort of stuff, the money goes back into game dev either way and that is many things beyond just devs sitting on a desk programming.
    bwwianakiev
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    El-Hefe said:
    So a companies operative  costs includes transportation and food for their families?  I understand people spending their paychecks on those necessities.   But backers should not be paying for employees cars.  The money raised should be used to produce the game.  

    Yes they have to pay employees.  But the amount of Interest they are making off of close to 300 million should just about cover payroll every month.  


    You're going to sit here and tell me and other potential backers that the money I give them is going to go to "Joes new car?" 
    There's nothing said about employee cars, what is known is part of the company costs is travels, and that is normal here as they have studios across the world.

    The whole thing is a human process, if the money you pledge going to X employee wager that uses that money to buy his new car, you might get a bitter taste in your mouth but that will be implied as part of the operations of the process of developing the product you pledged for.

    They with over 500 employees, and over 30 million a year in crowdfunding, the estimates already show their costs are more than what they crowdfund, so other money sources like subs and such might cover up the rest.
  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    MaxBacon said:
    El-Hefe said:
    So a companies operative  costs includes transportation and food for their families?  I understand people spending their paychecks on those necessities.   But backers should not be paying for employees cars.  The money raised should be used to produce the game.  

    Yes they have to pay employees.  But the amount of Interest they are making off of close to 300 million should just about cover payroll every month.  


    You're going to sit here and tell me and other potential backers that the money I give them is going to go to "Joes new car?" 
    There's nothing said about employee cars, what is known is part of the company costs is travels, and that is normal here as they have studios across the world.

    The whole thing is a human process, if the money you pledge going to X employee wager that uses that money to buy his new car, you might get a bitter taste in your mouth but that will be implied as part of the operations of the process of developing the product you pledged for.

    They with over 500 employees, and over 30 million a year in crowdfunding, the estimates already show their costs are more than what they crowdfund, so other money sources like subs and such might cover up the rest.
    30 mil divided by 500 employees.  60k a year each.  At that is with no results for the actual game they say they are working on.  

    I've got the straight edge.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    El-Hefe said:
    30 mil divided by 500 employees.  60k a year each.  At that is with no results for the actual game they say they are working on.  
    It doesn't work like that. Some data here on last financials submitted representing pretty much half of the company. The work to show for it is there, their pace of progression is another topic.
  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    MaxBacon said:
    El-Hefe said:
    30 mil divided by 500 employees.  60k a year each.  At that is with no results for the actual game they say they are working on.  
    It doesn't work like that. Some data here on last financials submitted representing pretty much half of the company. The work to show for it is there, their pace of progression is another topic.
    So,  how does it work?  They are "raising money" to complete the game Now?  Or they are raising money to stay afloat?  I agree pace of progress is another topic.  But they need money now to continue work on the game.  

    I've got the straight edge.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    El-Hefe said:
    So,  how does it work?  They are "raising money" to complete the game Now?  Or they are raising money to stay afloat?  I agree pace of progress is another topic.  But they need money now to continue work on the game.  
    That's not a choice between the two, the sustainability of their operations are the same is required for the completion of the game, that's not negotiable, up until now they've been stable and kept hiring and expanding up to the large-scale they stand today, the constant funding defines how many will work on the project concurrently, that's pretty much how far that goes.
  • BeezerbeezBeezerbeez Member UncommonPosts: 302
    Noun1.human process -a process in which human beings are involved

    So, literally anything? 

    Money laundering is a human process ;)

    I kid. I kid.


  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,607
    Max nailed it. I said this was just a way for these guys to 'make a living' for as long as they could milk it. As long as they produce anything no matter how ridiculous it is the white knights will give them a pass.

    While this welfare system is under the guise of 'game development' it is still wholeheartedly supporting the lifestyle of everyone involved, and in the case of the principles its become an extremely lavish lifestyle.

    Thats why I hope when they lose all these stupid dismissals the discovery will include the financials and people will be able to see exactly where all this money is going. I am sure they have already cooked the books a dozen times over but with that many people with their hand in the cookie jar and with that much money (alleged;y) there are going to be a lot of obvious fudgings.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    https://docdro.id/5WYum99

    Nothing that wasn’t expected
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    Octagon7711

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Asm0deus said:
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    It would be duh but considering CR said all money raised will goto game dev he’s now gone back on a key promise.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,915
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    It would be duh but considering CR said all money raised will goto game dev he’s now gone back on a key promise.
    I'm certainly not a fan of CR or this game but you're stretching this to the breaking point.

    Did you understand "game development" to not include, salaries, benefits, buildings, maintenance, insurance or legal fees associated with the business of game development?
    bwwianakievAsm0deusgervaise1Balmong
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • bwwianakievbwwianakiev Member UncommonPosts: 119
    Iselin said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    It would be duh but considering CR said all money raised will goto game dev he’s now gone back on a key promise.
    I'm certainly not a fan of CR or this game but you're stretching this to the breaking point.

    Did you understand "game development" to not include, salaries, benefits, buildings, maintenance, insurance or legal fees associated with the business of game development?
    Kefo life revolves around reading and twisting anything he can to benefit his cause. His cause is for Star Citizen to fail.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Iselin said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    It would be duh but considering CR said all money raised will goto game dev he’s now gone back on a key promise.
    I'm certainly not a fan of CR or this game but you're stretching this to the breaking point.

    Did you understand "game development" to not include, salaries, benefits, buildings, maintenance, insurance or legal fees associated with the business of game development?
    Kefo life revolves around reading and twisting anything he can to benefit his cause. His cause is for Star Citizen to fail.
    You know me that well eh? Perhaps you should stop stalking me and trying to talk about things you don’t understand.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Iselin said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    This whole mess will end in disaster. Cannot use backer money to fight a lawsuit. That money should be used for the game only. If money from backing is being used for anything else I cry foul.
    I sometimes wonder where some of you guys get these ideas you spout off.  Doesn't matter what company or how said company was funded any company that get sued will use company funds... think about it....

    If you were a CEO and your company was being sued you wouldn't use your personal bank account to pay for the company legel fees....that would be just DUH...


    It would be duh but considering CR said all money raised will goto game dev he’s now gone back on a key promise.
    I'm certainly not a fan of CR or this game but you're stretching this to the breaking point.

    Did you understand "game development" to not include, salaries, benefits, buildings, maintenance, insurance or legal fees associated with the business of game development?
    Look at you trying to be a smartass. Yes I understand money goes into salaries, benefits, etc as you need all that to make a video game. But if you’d kindly like to point out where a huge lawsuit brought on by Crytek is part and parcel of game dev then by all means. Unless you’re telling me CR put aside a large chunk of backer funds when he realized trying to fuck over the company that helped get you up and running wasn’t good business sense?
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,676
    edited September 2018
    There actually were in fact quite a few backers who said they were confident Chris wasn't using backer funds for the lawsuit because he promised it'd all go to game development.

    Those poor sweet innocent pure souls...
    Kefocraftseeker
  • Stormfire962Stormfire962 Member UncommonPosts: 65
    MaxBacon said:
    It also states that CIG violated the agreement when they announced SQ42 would be sold as a separate, stand-alone game.  Interesting.
    They are even salty about the bug-smashers episodes where they show a dev fixing bugs on the game editor.

    It seems that is also a breach of contract because "confidential stuff", gg lol

    I wonder where it will go from here.  It seems that, if the documents wording from the GLA is accurate, they at least have a good case on CIG's decision to use the engine for two titles instead of the one agreed upon.
    If the "only one game" license is true then that where I find they have the case because CIG started letting the SQ42 title to be bought separately, if so CIG may look into a settling such dispute.
    Dude  worst case scenario for CIG is that all they have to payout is $70,000 and not have and Crytek coding in the game and nothing more.

    Worst case for Crytek they could loss and have CIG counter sue them for damages.  Which is what I am hoping will happen to Crytek since the new owner is nothing more then a jerk seeking a name for himself at the expense of the company.
  • Stormfire962Stormfire962 Member UncommonPosts: 65

    hfztt said:
    Perfect timing by CryTech. Waited long enough to maximize sales and then strikes while there is still money to get.

    Have to give them credit: Striking for optimal damage/profit ratio.

    Someone must really have pissed them off...

    Dude are serious!  This is by far the stupidest thing Crytek has done thus far and I am willing to bet Crytek lawyers said to the owner ARE YOU NUTS!
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    It also states that CIG violated the agreement when they announced SQ42 would be sold as a separate, stand-alone game.  Interesting.
    They are even salty about the bug-smashers episodes where they show a dev fixing bugs on the game editor.

    It seems that is also a breach of contract because "confidential stuff", gg lol

    I wonder where it will go from here.  It seems that, if the documents wording from the GLA is accurate, they at least have a good case on CIG's decision to use the engine for two titles instead of the one agreed upon.
    If the "only one game" license is true then that where I find they have the case because CIG started letting the SQ42 title to be bought separately, if so CIG may look into a settling such dispute.
    Dude  worst case scenario for CIG is that all they have to payout is $70,000 and not have and Crytek coding in the game and nothing more.

    Worst case for Crytek they could loss and have CIG counter sue them for damages.  Which is what I am hoping will happen to Crytek since the new owner is nothing more then a jerk seeking a name for himself at the expense of the company.
    I’m thinking Crytek is going for a little more than just 70k. The fact they are dragging Ortwin into this they might be trying to gather evidence for a disbarment and the fact they can still file for an injunction at any time (doesn’t mean it’s granted or not) might point to signs that they are out for the kill. Plus just having no more Crytek coding would murder this project in my opinion lol.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,588
    edited September 2018
    Stormfire962 said:

    Dude  worst case scenario for CIG is that all they have to payout is $70,000 and not have and Crytek coding in the game and nothing more.

    Worst case for Crytek they could loss and have CIG counter sue them for damages.  Which is what I am hoping will happen to Crytek since the new owner is nothing more then a jerk seeking a name for himself at the expense of the company.
    No, CIG might have to pay millions of dollars. Your $70 000 likely comes from Crytek classifying their damage claims as over $75 000 - that line affects the upcoming process. Crytek hasn't released actual calculations on how much damage has been done yet, and they could well demand something like $20 million once they do.
    Balmong
     
  • BalmongBalmong Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Vrika said:
    Stormfire962 said:

    Dude  worst case scenario for CIG is that all they have to payout is $70,000 and not have and Crytek coding in the game and nothing more.

    Worst case for Crytek they could loss and have CIG counter sue them for damages.  Which is what I am hoping will happen to Crytek since the new owner is nothing more then a jerk seeking a name for himself at the expense of the company.
    No, CIG might have to pay millions of dollars. Your $70 000 likely comes from Crytek classifying their damage claims as over $75 000 - that line affects the upcoming process. Crytek hasn't released actual calculations on how much damage has been done yet, and they could well demand something like $20 million once they do.
    You can't just ask for a number and get it though. They'll have to make the case to the judge that they deserve that number, judge could award way less if they feel it's more appropriate.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Balmong said:
    Vrika said:
    Stormfire962 said:

    Dude  worst case scenario for CIG is that all they have to payout is $70,000 and not have and Crytek coding in the game and nothing more.

    Worst case for Crytek they could loss and have CIG counter sue them for damages.  Which is what I am hoping will happen to Crytek since the new owner is nothing more then a jerk seeking a name for himself at the expense of the company.
    No, CIG might have to pay millions of dollars. Your $70 000 likely comes from Crytek classifying their damage claims as over $75 000 - that line affects the upcoming process. Crytek hasn't released actual calculations on how much damage has been done yet, and they could well demand something like $20 million once they do.
    You can't just ask for a number and get it though. They'll have to make the case to the judge that they deserve that number, judge could award way less if they feel it's more appropriate.
    Very true, but I highly doubt CryTek will end up only seeking $70k.  Also don't be surprised to see them highball it on purpose.  Worst case scenario from CryTek's point of view by highballing is the judge says "yea no, that's too much.  This is more reasonable."

    image
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    [HON. DOLLY M. GEE]
    REPLY MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN FURTHER SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS’ MOTION TO DISMISS THE SECOND AMENDED COMPLAINT IN PART

    https://docdro.id/gyyGc4q

    JOINT REPORT Rule 26(f) Discovery Plan ; estimated length of trial 5-10 Days, filed by Plaintiff Crytek GmbH.. (Pak, James)

    gervaise1
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