>>> It's a silly argument to say that the ETA was an ESTIMATE not a PROMISE>>> >>> The FACT is that the ETA was 2014<>>
It is not a silly argument - it is simply the truth. Go to the Star Citizen Kickstarter page. Every date mentioned, including the "2014" one has an "ESTIMATED" before it.
THAT is a verifiable FACT.
Like you I have waited for the game. I would have liked to see it sooner. Maybe different from you I try to actively shorten the time we have to wait.
By being an active backer-playtester, writing and submitting bug reports, participating in official forum discussions about improving the game, giving feedback in a constructive way etc. And enjoying the Alpha together with friends along the way.
Have fun
No. Again you try the Strawman which is what is silly. You try to make the discussion about how solid 2014 was instead of the FACT we are now in late 2018 hurtling to 2019. An ETA is by definition an Estimate. Its the first letter. But it’s now far, far past that estimate. It’s been over 6 years that I have been waiting for the game.
So stop being silly and trying to argue things I am not saying. Stop trying to belittle legitimate concerns of people that are beyond frustrated with this fiasco.
They need to give a firm target for SQ42 release during the convention and they need to hit it. Case closed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
>>> I don't see any mention of the word estimate in this paragraph.>>>
Yes, because you picked a few lines of text, from a webpage with hundreds of lines of text. Deliberately omitting every mention of "estimated" all over the website. A tip: read the text below the pledge packages.
CIG did allow Alpha testing as mentioned in the text you quoted. To all backers, not only a limited number.
These are verifiable facts.
Beta testing has not started yet. We all regret that. An unfortunate but (by me personally) not unexpected delay. My first estimate all those years ago was 5 years for SQ42. More for SC.
Backer playtesters DO help SQ42 with playtesting. We test the underlying technology. We test that you do not simply drop through the floor of your SQ42 ship. We may not know the story - that is being tested by in-house QA - but we can help with a lot of other things used BOTH for SC and SQ42.
Have fun
Lol how did I know you’d try and weasel your way out of what you said?
You said every date mentioned has the word estimated in front of it and that’s a verifiable fact. The part I wrote doesn’t have estimate anywhere near it. You can even read through the entire pitch and not once does Chris (or whoever wrote it) say estimated. The estimated part comes from what Kickstarter requires for pledge packages. Yet they give a range of dates for when the alpha will be coming, the beta and not once do they say estimated
Just face it that you got caught with your pants down and instead of trying to word smith your way out of it you learn from the mistake.
As for the rest of what you wrote no sorry you aren’t shortening SQ42 time because you aren’t play testing SQ42. You can hammer on about underlying technology all you want but that isn’t play testing SQ42. If they haven’t got the underlying tech done yet then they are in far worse shape then they let on.
Why you are telling me about your beta estimate I have no clue about. It was already pointed out last year or early this year that you lie about that and keep changing your estimate every year so it doesn’t look as bad.
In the part you quoted there is no date mentioned. Therefore also no "estimated" in front of it.
They mention a time period. "12 months" and "20-22 months". The first one was correct. The second one was not.
Maybe you may want to meditate on the difference between a fixed point in time and a time period. To me those two are NOT the same thing. Maybe to you they are.
We seem to disagree what it means to help playtest SC and SQ42. As you do not do ANY testing for SC/SQ42, i have to consider your point of view an uninformed private opinion based on minimal knowledge about the topic at hand (playtesting SC/SQ42).
>>> It was already pointed out last year or early this year that you lie about that >>>
Incorrect.
>>> and keep changing your estimate every year so it doesn’t look as bad. >>>
In November 2017 i revised my estimate (here on this forum) when SQ42 did not launch after the 5 years development period (ending in Nov 2017) that i previously estimated. SQ42 (and SC) take longer to develop than i expected. As mentioned before ... i personally have no problem with that. "Its ready when its ready." I have 200+ other games to play in the meantime.
>>> I don't see any mention of the word estimate in this paragraph.>>>
Yes, because you picked a few lines of text, from a webpage with hundreds of lines of text. Deliberately omitting every mention of "estimated" all over the website. A tip: read the text below the pledge packages.
CIG did allow Alpha testing as mentioned in the text you quoted. To all backers, not only a limited number.
These are verifiable facts.
Beta testing has not started yet. We all regret that. An unfortunate but (by me personally) not unexpected delay. My first estimate all those years ago was 5 years for SQ42. More for SC.
Backer playtesters DO help SQ42 with playtesting. We test the underlying technology. We test that you do not simply drop through the floor of your SQ42 ship. We may not know the story - that is being tested by in-house QA - but we can help with a lot of other things used BOTH for SC and SQ42.
Have fun
Lol how did I know you’d try and weasel your way out of what you said?
You said every date mentioned has the word estimated in front of it and that’s a verifiable fact. The part I wrote doesn’t have estimate anywhere near it. You can even read through the entire pitch and not once does Chris (or whoever wrote it) say estimated. The estimated part comes from what Kickstarter requires for pledge packages. Yet they give a range of dates for when the alpha will be coming, the beta and not once do they say estimated
Just face it that you got caught with your pants down and instead of trying to word smith your way out of it you learn from the mistake.
As for the rest of what you wrote no sorry you aren’t shortening SQ42 time because you aren’t play testing SQ42. You can hammer on about underlying technology all you want but that isn’t play testing SQ42. If they haven’t got the underlying tech done yet then they are in far worse shape then they let on.
Why you are telling me about your beta estimate I have no clue about. It was already pointed out last year or early this year that you lie about that and keep changing your estimate every year so it doesn’t look as bad.
In the part you quoted there is no date mentioned. Therefore also no "estimated" in front of it.
They mention a time period. "12 months" and "20-22 months". The first one was correct. The second one was not.
Maybe you may want to meditate on the difference between a fixed point in time and a time period. To me those two are NOT the same thing. Maybe to you they are.
We seem to disagree what it means to help playtest SC and SQ42. As you do not do ANY testing for SC/SQ42, i have to consider your point of view an uninformed private opinion based on minimal knowledge about the topic at hand (playtesting SC/SQ42).
>>> It was already pointed out last year or early this year that you lie about that >>>
Incorrect.
>>> and keep changing your estimate every year so it doesn’t look as bad. >>>
In November 2017 i revised my estimate (here on this forum) when SQ42 did not launch after the 5 years development period (ending in Nov 2017) that i previously estimated. SQ42 (and SC) take longer to develop than i expected. As mentioned before ... i personally have no problem with that. "Its ready when its ready." I have 200+ other games to play in the meantime.
Have fun
Well at least you acknowledge that there was a time frame given. Now just to get you to realize that telling everyone here that all the dates have estimated in front of them and that’s a verifiable fact is wrong. There is a date listed with those time frames though and anyone not trying to wordsmith their way out of he blunder would see that.
12 months for anyone who can think for themselves would be a date of 12 months after the Kickstarter ended and the same for the 20-22 months. Those are still dates and I still expect you to try and change what you said but it’s a slow day at work so I could use the laughs.
You do revise your estimate that much is true but it was pointed out that you would try to make it seem like you always had that estimate until someone went back in your post history and pointed out what you were doing.
I dont have to playtest SQ42 or SC. I’ve been involved in many games testing phases, some of them alphas and some of them betas. But if you’d like to follow your train of thought then it’s safe to say you are also giving your private, uninformed opinion based on minimal knowledge of the topic since you haven’t actually play tested SQ42 either.
>>>until someone went back in your post history
and pointed out what you were doing. >>>
Which i disputed.
>>>>> .... since you
haven’t actually play tested SQ42 either. ...
>>>>>
Incorrect.
Certain ships are used in SQ42. Backer-playtesters have playtested these ships and found and reported bugs. These bugs will not appear in SQ42. Have already been patched out. Often it is about glitching through walls and similar things.
I just love how the word fact is now being used as if it has some sort of meaning. Has Roberts said ANYTHING that came to fruition in a 'respectable' time period?
How can ANYTHING be a 'fact' when the guy cant either tell the truth or tell time or has the always ready "this game is so ambitious and the scope is so large..." argument already to go when something doesnt meet even a ridiculously generous time frame.
All we have are the words the guys speaks and the back pedal posts he makes to go by. Even accounting for the naivete' (of the greatest developer ever according to some) a majority of his claims and hopes are imbecilic. Yet theyre somehow now trying to cited as 'facts'.
Facts are the guy has never released a game when he had total control and on the contrary he had to be removed from more than one game JUST so it could actually be released. Fact is this started out as a 20 million dollar project and has now (allegedly) raised ten times that amount yet not a single aspect of the triumvirate of games he claimed to want to make is anywhere near a retail release. It more watch what this hand is doing and forget about the other one. He throws so much nonsense out there it an obvious ploy to distract and defer from the REAL issues that should be getting discussed. And whenever those legit concerns come up the white knights go into every (non censored) platform and do their own brand of deflection and distraction and derailment. cherry picking an off hand comment and focusing on that rather than addressing the main body of the argument.
Thats why it does no good to interact with them because theyre clearly not impartial about anything and absolutely refuse to make any concessions other than an obligatory 'yeah I wish it were going faster too' which is the understatement of the century.
Had this been even a realistically developed project with an outline SQ 42 (at least the first of the supposed three installments of the story) would have more than likely been released last year at the latest especially considering the funds they (allegedly) have raised. They sure as hell made sure everyone knew all the has beens and 'icons' they signed up to voice act for it. How long ago was that? Almost exactly 3 years ago....but the lead that was buried and has been forgotten is that was also the time people needed to 'upgrade' (what they used to get for free) and that was really most of the talk during that big reveal of the 'big 3' jumping on board the SC train.
But if you want some white knight gold go read the comments at the bottom of this article... 3 years ago (and allegedly 100 million more dollars raised) SAME exact reasons people give now.
>>>until someone went back in your post history
and pointed out what you were doing. >>>
Which i disputed.
>>>>> .... since you
haven’t actually play tested SQ42 either. ...
>>>>>
Incorrect.
Certain ships are used in SQ42. Backer-playtesters have playtested these ships and found and reported bugs. These bugs will not appear in SQ42. Have already been patched out. Often it is about glitching through walls and similar things.
Have fun
Which you disputed but doesn’t change the fact.
and again playtesting ships (which could be subject to change) and not the actual game still gives you about as much informed opinion about SQ42 as I would have but was a nice attempt
Which you disputed but doesn’t change the fact. >>>
For that it would have to be a fact first. Which it was not. That is why I disputed this so called "fact".
>>> and again playtesting ships (which could be subject to change) >>>>
Everything can potentially change. We backer-playtesters just test it again.
>>>and not the actual game still gives you about as much informed opinion about SQ42 as I would have but was a nice attempt>>>>
As your playtesting experience in SC/SQ42 is NIL, you do not have anything that can be called an "Informed" opinion on SQ42 PLAYTESTING.
Nice attempt.
Have fun
You never refuted it just gave your boilerplate answer of it changes every year but it was shown that wasn’t the case.
Much like your playtime in SQ42 is nil. I mean I can’t really believe that I have to keep pointing out the absurdity of your post. I know I have no playtime in SQ42 because I will never buy into this dumpster fire. And you have nil playtime because SQ42 is being internally tested unless you are subtly trying to tell everyone that you are a employee of CIG which would surprise absolutely no one
it changed in Nov 2017, when my initial estimate of 5 years ended.
>>> much like your playtime in SQ42 is nil >>>
i never claim to have playtime in SQ42. That is only what YOU say.
I say that the testing of backer-playtesters helps in the development of SQ42. We help to find bugs in SQ42 e.g. by finding bugs in the ships we know are being used in SQ42. These ships are used in SC too, so it helps both games.
The only thing you are pointing out is the absurdity of your own claims, which you project onto others and then declare that it is THEIR claim. Which it is not.
My playtime in playtesting Star Citizen is not nil.
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
We aren’t talking about SC play testing, we are talking about SQ42 play testing and how you keep trying to claim superiority over others by making ridiculous claims.
My playtime in playtesting Star Citizen is not nil.
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
We aren’t talking about SC play testing, we are talking about SQ42 play testing and how you keep trying to claim superiority over others by making ridiculous claims.
--> I say that part of the SC playtesting helps in the playtesting of SQ42 e.g. finding bugs in the ships used in SQ42 (which are of course also used in SC). If someone is not doing ANY of this playtesting, I do not believe this person can give an INFORMED opinion. This person can give a personal opinion at any time. However I personally would not consider it informed or particularly applicable to the topic. It would be about as (in)valid as this persons opinion about vascular surgery or eating habits in the Dark Ages.
My playtime in playtesting Star Citizen is not nil.
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
We aren’t talking about SC play testing, we are talking about SQ42 play testing and how you keep trying to claim superiority over others by making ridiculous claims.
--> I say that part of the SC playtesting helps in the playtesting of SQ42 e.g. finding bugs in the ships used in SQ42 (which are of course also used in SC). If someone is not doing ANY of this playtesting, I do not believe this person can give an INFORMED opinion. This person can give a personal opinion at any time. However I personally would not consider it informed or particularly applicable to the topic. It would be about as (in)valid as this persons opinion about vascular surgery or eating habits in the Dark Ages.
--> Have fun
Again you are trying to claim something while completely overlooking the fact that your argument is undermining your own position. You are trying to tell us that you have helped playtest SQ42 because you have play tested ships. Ok that means you’ve play tested ships in SC, not SQ42.
It would be like a geologist claiming they helped build the space shuttle because they found the ore vein that maybe was used to construct a panel.
You can talk as much as you’d like about how you’re helping play test SC and I doubt there would be anyone who would dispute that but trying to dismiss someone’s opinion or talking points by using an argument that also dismisses your own points is what makes me scratch my head and wonder if you need more sleep.
My playtime in playtesting Star Citizen is not nil.
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
We aren’t talking about SC play testing, we are talking about SQ42 play testing and how you keep trying to claim superiority over others by making ridiculous claims.
--> I say that part of the SC playtesting helps in the playtesting of SQ42 e.g. finding bugs in the ships used in SQ42 (which are of course also used in SC). If someone is not doing ANY of this playtesting, I do not believe this person can give an INFORMED opinion. This person can give a personal opinion at any time. However I personally would not consider it informed or particularly applicable to the topic. It would be about as (in)valid as this persons opinion about vascular surgery or eating habits in the Dark Ages.
--> Have fun
Again you are trying to claim something while completely overlooking the fact that your argument is undermining your own position. You are trying to tell us that you have helped playtest SQ42 because you have play tested ships. Ok that means you’ve play tested ships in SC, not SQ42.
It would be like a geologist claiming they helped build the space shuttle because they found the ore vein that maybe was used to construct a panel.
You can talk as much as you’d like about how you’re helping play test SC and I doubt there would be anyone who would dispute that but trying to dismiss someone’s opinion or talking points by using an argument that also dismisses your own points is what makes me scratch my head and wonder if you need more sleep.
I dispute the claim that someone is giving an "informed" opinion on something he has no experience in. Like backer-playtesting for CIG.
My playtime in playtesting Star Citizen is not nil.
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
We aren’t talking about SC play testing, we are talking about SQ42 play testing and how you keep trying to claim superiority over others by making ridiculous claims.
--> I say that part of the SC playtesting helps in the playtesting of SQ42 e.g. finding bugs in the ships used in SQ42 (which are of course also used in SC). If someone is not doing ANY of this playtesting, I do not believe this person can give an INFORMED opinion. This person can give a personal opinion at any time. However I personally would not consider it informed or particularly applicable to the topic. It would be about as (in)valid as this persons opinion about vascular surgery or eating habits in the Dark Ages.
--> Have fun
Again you are trying to claim something while completely overlooking the fact that your argument is undermining your own position. You are trying to tell us that you have helped playtest SQ42 because you have play tested ships. Ok that means you’ve play tested ships in SC, not SQ42.
It would be like a geologist claiming they helped build the space shuttle because they found the ore vein that maybe was used to construct a panel.
You can talk as much as you’d like about how you’re helping play test SC and I doubt there would be anyone who would dispute that but trying to dismiss someone’s opinion or talking points by using an argument that also dismisses your own points is what makes me scratch my head and wonder if you need more sleep.
I dispute the claim that someone is giving an "informed" opinion on something he has no experience in. Like backer-playtesting for CIG.
Have fun
I dispute the claim that someone is giving an "informed" opinion on something he has no experience in. Like playtesting the actual Squadron42 game.
Now if you are playtesting that, you are probably under NDA, and shouldn't even be in this part of the discussion.
Hopefully, someone is playtesting it. This far along, you'd kinda hope that, right? Well, maybe after the next refactor anyway....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2013 I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2014 I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2015 I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2016 I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2017 I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2018
I don't want to playtest an Alpha anymore. I don't want to playtest any Beta.
I just want Squadron 42.
I've been patient enough.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I dispute the claim that someone is giving an "informed" opinion on something he has no experience in. Like playtesting the actual Squadron42 game. >>>
Great.
Let us know.
Who claimed to have playtested the actual Squadron42 game ?
Comments
So stop being silly and trying to argue things I am not saying. Stop trying to belittle legitimate concerns of people that are beyond frustrated with this fiasco.
They need to give a firm target for SQ42 release during the convention and they need to hit it. Case closed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
12 months for anyone who can think for themselves would be a date of 12 months after the Kickstarter ended and the same for the 20-22 months. Those are still dates and I still expect you to try and change what you said but it’s a slow day at work so I could use the laughs.
You do revise your estimate that much is true but it was pointed out that you would try to make it seem like you always had that estimate until someone went back in your post history and pointed out what you were doing.
I dont have to playtest SQ42 or SC. I’ve been involved in many games testing phases, some of them alphas and some of them betas. But if you’d like to follow your train of thought then it’s safe to say you are also giving your private, uninformed opinion based on minimal knowledge of the topic since you haven’t actually play tested SQ42 either.
.... since you haven’t actually play tested SQ42 either. ...
How can ANYTHING be a 'fact' when the guy cant either tell the truth or tell time or has the always ready "this game is so ambitious and the scope is so large..." argument already to go when something doesnt meet even a ridiculously generous time frame.
All we have are the words the guys speaks and the back pedal posts he makes to go by. Even accounting for the naivete' (of the greatest developer ever according to some) a majority of his claims and hopes are imbecilic. Yet theyre somehow now trying to cited as 'facts'.
Facts are the guy has never released a game when he had total control and on the contrary he had to be removed from more than one game JUST so it could actually be released. Fact is this started out as a 20 million dollar project and has now (allegedly) raised ten times that amount yet not a single aspect of the triumvirate of games he claimed to want to make is anywhere near a retail release. It more watch what this hand is doing and forget about the other one. He throws so much nonsense out there it an obvious ploy to distract and defer from the REAL issues that should be getting discussed. And whenever those legit concerns come up the white knights go into every (non censored) platform and do their own brand of deflection and distraction and derailment. cherry picking an off hand comment and focusing on that rather than addressing the main body of the argument.
Thats why it does no good to interact with them because theyre clearly not impartial about anything and absolutely refuse to make any concessions other than an obligatory 'yeah I wish it were going faster too' which is the understatement of the century.
Had this been even a realistically developed project with an outline SQ 42 (at least the first of the supposed three installments of the story) would have more than likely been released last year at the latest especially considering the funds they (allegedly) have raised. They sure as hell made sure everyone knew all the has beens and 'icons' they signed up to voice act for it. How long ago was that? Almost exactly 3 years ago....but the lead that was buried and has been forgotten is that was also the time people needed to 'upgrade' (what they used to get for free) and that was really most of the talk during that big reveal of the 'big 3' jumping on board the SC train.
But if you want some white knight gold go read the comments at the bottom of this article... 3 years ago (and allegedly 100 million more dollars raised) SAME exact reasons people give now.
https://www.pcgamer.com/mark-hamill-talks-star-citizen-wing-commander-and-star-wars/#comment-jump
and again playtesting ships (which could be subject to change) and not the actual game still gives you about as much informed opinion about SQ42 as I would have but was a nice attempt
>>>
For that it would have to be a fact first. Which it was not. That is why I disputed this so called "fact".
>>> and again playtesting ships (which could be subject to change)
>>>>
Everything can potentially change. We backer-playtesters just test it again.
>>>and not the actual game still gives you about as much informed opinion about SQ42 as I would have but was a nice attempt>>>>
As your playtesting experience in SC/SQ42 is NIL, you do not have anything that can be called an "Informed" opinion on SQ42 PLAYTESTING.
Nice attempt.
Have fun
Much like your playtime in SQ42 is nil. I mean I can’t really believe that I have to keep pointing out the absurdity of your post. I know I have no playtime in SQ42 because I will never buy into this dumpster fire. And you have nil playtime because SQ42 is being internally tested unless you are subtly trying to tell everyone that you are a employee of CIG which would surprise absolutely no one
it changed in Nov 2017, when my initial estimate of 5 years ended.
>>> much like your playtime in SQ42 is nil >>>
i never claim to have playtime in SQ42. That is only what YOU say.
I say that the testing of backer-playtesters helps in the development of SQ42. We help to find bugs in SQ42 e.g. by finding bugs in the ships we know are being used in SQ42. These ships are used in SC too, so it helps both games.
The only thing you are pointing out is the absurdity of your own claims, which you project onto others and then declare that it is THEIR claim. Which it is not.
Have fun
His is.
Guess who has more insight into playtesting Star Citizen in its various forms ?
Have fun
It would be like a geologist claiming they helped build the space shuttle because they found the ore vein that maybe was used to construct a panel.
You can talk as much as you’d like about how you’re helping play test SC and I doubt there would be anyone who would dispute that but trying to dismiss someone’s opinion or talking points by using an argument that also dismisses your own points is what makes me scratch my head and wonder if you need more sleep.
whos there?!
Have fun
Now if you are playtesting that, you are probably under NDA, and shouldn't even be in this part of the discussion.
Hopefully, someone is playtesting it. This far along, you'd kinda hope that, right? Well, maybe after the next refactor anyway....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2014
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2015
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2016
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2017
I playtested "Star Citizen" in 2018
I don't want to playtest an Alpha anymore.
I don't want to playtest any Beta.
I just want Squadron 42.
I've been patient enough.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
>>>
I've been patient enough.
>>>>