Overcoming diversity problems with more exclusion

MightyUnclean · September 2018

Cleary, the way to overcome problems with diversity is to exclude another group of people. That's highly logical. Also, how does someone demonstrate that they are "non-binary" to gain access to these workshops? Do they have an ID card?

https://massivelyop.com/2018/09/03/riot-games-says-its-proud-of-workshops-designed-for-women-and-non-binary-prospective-devs/

Quizzical · September 2018

One hopes that employees who can't handle binary aren't programmers, but have some other job instead.

Because completely missing the point is the best way to salvage a thread about a topic like this.

Slapshot1188 · September 2018

I like the part where the company calls for everyone to act with respect while it's employees are calling folks "absolute overgrown toddlers” who were “throw[ing] hissy fits.”

I've got a great rule to live by and it's lasted for thousands of years. It's pretty simple too:

Treat others how you would want to be treated.

That's the ultimate solution to most of these problems (from both sides). Instead of dividing us further and further into groups based on our sex, color, religion or anything else... let's just go back to the Golden Rule.

blamo2000 · September 2018

I have been working in an office environment in various industries (same or similar field) for a long time. I honestly can't imagine an office environment allowing this kind of talk. I am not saying I'm above it. It just always been a firing offense to say half the shit purposed to be said at this office in any office I've ever worked at or heard about.

When I go out to lunch with a guy friend from the office everything we say would get us fired not just in a normal office environment, but in the most liberal (real definition, not modern or with modern connotations definition) office environment. When we go out to lunch and have a girl friend from the office along, we watch our mouths almost to the same extent as when we are in the office. The same for any events outside the office. Hell, or even in general now.

It seems to me game development studios were an outlier when it came to office environments like Hollywood and politicians when it came to sexual harassment - they didn't get the memo of the new laws like the rest of us did 3 or 4 decades ago. Or at least they didn't think those laws applied to them.

I just wanted to make the point that in general what is said to have been acceptable at the Riot offices was 100% not acceptable in any office I have ever heard of. If anything, it is more proof of the entertainment industry being hypocrites.

Xasapis · September 2018

The whole thing is a clear sign that Riot is overcompensating for actually being the opposite they are trying to portray. For me, it gives more credence to the allegations of rampant sexual misconducts within the company. I wouldn't even be surprised if the people who call their customer "manbabies" and other epithets are the main perpetrators behind those allegations.

Ungood · September 2018

Humnm I take the "Treat others as they treat me" and too often I don't win friends for it.

Anyway.. back on topic. I think it would be great to get development ideas from something outside the supposed norm of the sausage party that most games are.

Seeing a female perspective of what women want in games would be a nice touch, guys must discover we like those things as well.

someforumguy · September 2018

Yeah, those exclusive workshops is when a company does not know what is normal anymore. They probably mean well, but the irony is that they are still discriminating based on sex.

Just pay your employees according to performance , regardless of sex (something that is still a problem all over the world). And apart from that just employ the best based on relevant qualities for the job. It is not that complicated.

Kyleran · September 2018

40 years I've worked in offices, from very small to mega corporate. Some had warehouses and shops attached to them.

Not once did I ever work in an envoronment where men disrespected women, at least not openly or to their face.

Perhaps it's just the industries I'm in, I've been working for women on and off since 1996 but even before then in mostly male dominated engineering firms blatant disrespect of women wasn't tolerated.

Elsabolts · September 2018

To help with don't ask don't tell and diversity, in the gaming industry I will never play another Riot game.

Amathe · September 2018

There are always going to be companies who scoff at employment laws, contending that "this is who we are. People like how you can kid around here at work. It's part of our culture." That lasts until they get sued.

Tiamat64 · September 2018

Kyleran said:

40 years I've worked in offices, from very small to mega corporate. Some had warehouses and shops attached to them.

Not once did I ever work in an envoronment where men disrespected women, at least not openly or to their face.

Perhaps it's just the industries I'm in, I've been working for women on and off since 1996 but even before then in mostly male dominated engineering firms blatant disrespect of women wasn't tolerated.

The video game industry from what I've read is pretty bad about this sort of thing compared to other industries. Just the discussions alone on how to design female characters for games leads to some pretty... raunchy things, and that's before you get to how apparently they underpay female employees on purpose (of course, so do most industries according to statistics)

Here's an example article:

https://kotaku.com/investigation-a-video-game-studio-from-hell-511872642

The industry I work in (accounting) doesn't treat women badly but I imagine it's safe enough to assume toxic masculinity isn't a thing for accountants, unlike video game design.

Octagon7711 · September 2018

I worked for a job that had a lot of old school employees and sometime I would hear things said by employees and some supervisors that were very inappropriate about clients, women, and minorities. The job was considered high stress and about five or more people committed suicide during my many years of employment there, including two people I worked rather closely with.

One thing I realized is that if a person is raised in a certain type of environment they tend to carry those values with them and even seek out others who agree with those values. I fully agree with treating people the way you want to be treated and realize if you hate your job don't stay there and let it suck the life out of you to the point of death.

Cryomatrix · September 2018

Octagon7711 said:

I worked for a job that had a lot of old school employees and sometime I would hear things said by employees and some supervisors that were very inappropriate about clients, women, and minorities. The job was considered high stress and about five or more people committed suicide during my many years of employment there, including two people I worked rather closely with.

One thing I realized is that if a person is raised in a certain type of environment they tend to carry those values with them and even seek out others who agree with those values. I fully agree with treating people the way you want to be treated and realize if you hate your job don't stay there and let it suck the life out of you to the point of death.

What field did you work in? i'm guessing wall street or finance.

My take to the OP is just call everyone by the name they want, talk about work while you are at work, and if you talk to people about non-work related stuff, at least make sure it is controversial. Talk about business, hobbies, etc, don't talk about private things.

Cryomatrix

blamo2000 · September 2018

What I really don't understand about some of the comments "modern" men claim is that they never have locker room talk. Like they are so cool and above talking about the normal shit guys talk about when there are no females around.

When my wife has friends over they get just as dirty and filthy as men - the only difference is they seem comfortable doing it in front of men. Not at work. We all agree it just goes a lot better if no one says anything risqué at work, no matter how self evident it is. They don't walk around shouting out how they want to ravish the Thor actor, and guys don't walk around shouting we want to ravish whatever hot actress we have zero chance with.

In fact, when a pack of female mothers pushing forty or so all get together with no kids around and have been hitting the juice for a bit - the levels of filthy talk makes even me embarrassed enough to leave. And I spent half a decade in the infantry. I didn't think people could be dirty and filthy enough to make me uncomfortable.

But, like me, I doubt any of them are dumb enough to say anything racy at all at work. Or any of us work at a place that would tolerate it. Like 99.9% of all people in offices outside of the entertainment industry.

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Overcoming diversity problems with more exclusion

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Overcoming diversity problems with more exclusion

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey